The 2nd Monitor

Duga

22:03

@edharned OP is clearly asking help me figure out why some ancestors have a large index than the node, which indicates that the code isn't working as intended (which makes it off-topic for Code Review), and has a specific issue. The problem with this question is that it needs a MCVE. — Mat's Mug 13 secs ago

Mat's Mug

hi!

user82302

how's it going

Ismael Miguel

Greetings

Mast

22:17

@Hosch250 That blog does make some assumptions I'm not too comfortable with though. But in general, it's a good read.

nhgrif

→ 41 messages moved to Nothing

Vogel612

nice move, and yes, pun intended

nhgrif

> The jobs that I interview candidates for have an unusual set of requirements.

Might be relevant to the assumptions that are being made.

I'm not finished reading yet.

Mast

@nhgrif Partly.

> Then I pick something that looks vaguely interesting and fairly recent on the candidate’s resume, and ask them to give me first the “elevator pitch” — a few sentences describing the project and why it was important or interesting — and then to describe the problem they had to solve in more detail.

nhgrif

What's wrong with that?

Mast

22:28

The reason one is looking for a new job is usually because he either wants to broaden his horizon, got fed up with the old job or whatever.

If that project was a total loss, it could side-track the conversation easily.

nhgrif

That might be an assumption on your part.

Mast

It's what has happened before when I have conversations about such projects, though those weren't interviewers.

nhgrif

And I'd argue that as a computer programmer, you should probably take interviews even when you aren't explicitly looking for a new job.

Mast

That's certainly true.

Perhaps the case I'm talking about is too specific, but it does happen often enough I think.

nhgrif

And certainly, if you're applying to say, Microsoft, surely it's not a "this is my last resort--I'm applying here because I'm fed up with my current job"

Mast

22:30

Stuff goes wrong.

nhgrif

And perhaps more importantly, maybe he doesn't want to hire people who wait until they're fed up with their current job before they start looking?

Perhaps he wants people who get recruited away from their current job before they get fed up

> As is often pointed out, astronomy is not the science of building telescopes.

heh

Mast

I could take my own situation for example. I got fed up with my last employer and went looking for the next. I found one, (I'll start in October), so all went well. But I'm glad they skipped over that part of my resumé (it wasn't something they were interested in, domain-wise).

nhgrif

That's not a problem with the interview style described in this blog article.

Mast

I couldn't defend that project if my life depended on it.

nhgrif

That's a problem with your resume if you have stuff on it that you don't want to talk about in an interview.

Hosch250

22:33

Even if you are sick of it, presumably you could intelligently discuss what you did on it?

nhgrif

^ that

Mast

No, it's a problem I would encounter if I would be the interviewee in the process proposed.

@Hosch250 Yea, but not with enthusiasm like I could for the rest of the projects.

nhgrif

No, you should not under any circumstances, put something on your resume that you don't want to talk about in an interview.

Mast

@nhgrif Around here, a gap on your resumé is considered worse.

nhgrif

There's zero reason to unless you're looking for your first job...

I submit a 1-page resume.

Hosch250

22:34

1-page is the recommendation here.

Captain Obvious

0

Q: Enter words and use letters to get Scrabble score

My program is complete and runs and gives me the output I expect. For example, if I enter "HELLO" I should get 8. I would like to know if there any improvements that can be made. #include "stdafx.h" #include <iostream> #include <cctype> #include <string> using namespace std; int gameScore(s...

Mast

Same here, but they'll always want the most recent one as well.

nhgrif

And I don't emphasize a time line of sorts necessarily, but more the most relevant stuff to whatever I'm applying to

Hosch250

I need to write a resume, then ask someone to review it on resume review.

Mast

So basically, the project will drop from my resumé for the next job, probably. But it could've been a problem for this series.

nhgrif

22:36

And here's the thing Mast, no one wants to hire someone who can do nothing but complain about their current job.

Mast

@Hosch250 Has that been proposed on Area 51 yet?

Hosch250

@Mast I don't think so.

It will never survive, though.

Mast

@nhgrif I don't want to complain about it, which is why I'm glad we skipped that part. But if they ask, I'll have to tell them something.

@Hosch250 Definitely.

I'd probably tell them what languages where involved, a very abstract design and tell them I couldn't get into specifics. But for an interview, that may not be good enough.

nhgrif

And you can think of no way at all of describing what you did on the project without it negatively impacting your chances of getting the job you're applying for?

You're focusing on the wrong things.

Mast

@nhgrif I'm not good at hiding my hesitation. It would show.

nhgrif

22:38

Mast, briefly, what's the problem with the job you don't want to talk about?

Management?

Ethan Bierlein

Evening

nhgrif

Like project management?

Poor team members?

Mast

The whole project should never have started in hindsight.

nhgrif

That's irrelevant, and that's outside the scope of a programmer's job...

And that wouldn't/shouldn't even come up.

(in an interview)

Mast

Many things went wrong. Expectations mainly, from all stakeholders and project members.

nhgrif

22:42

Do you want to work for a company where that problem will be repeated?

Mast

No.

But at least I know what I should've done different now.

Ismael Miguel

@EthanBierlein Greetings

nhgrif

If you can't find a way to talk about that in an interview in a way that doesn't make you come off negatively, then you're effectively doomed to eventually work for a company that repeats those mistakes.

Just as the company is using interviews to narrow down their pool of potential candidates, you should use interviews to narrow down the pool of company's whose offers you'd accept.

Hosch250

I should ask my interviewer to write a FizzBuzz.

nhgrif

Ship 10 resumes and know that by the time you're done with resumes, you'll have narrowed your list down to 5 of those. And of those 5, some will offer to you, some won't.

Hosch250

22:44

To make sure I'll be working with people who are reasonable competent.

nhgrif

@Hosch250 Whoever interviews you will either be capable of writing FizzBuzz (it's trivial) or won't be a programmer.

You're not guaranteed to be interviewed by a programmer.

Mast

Interviews definitely go both ways, yea, but the interviewer usually leads at least part of the interview.

nhgrif

Sort of.

Mast

@nhgrif I'm usually interviewed by two people, a manager who'll be my supervisor if I accept and an engineer with years experience at the company.

nhgrif

You don't have to lead the interview to find out information or to possibly eliminate it.

You can eliminate it without even realizing you eliminated it.

Edward

22:48

@nhgrif Sorry, I wandered off for a bit. I know a number of programming languages and have been programming since the late 1970s.

Mast

@Edward Mostly embedded languages or did you touch other domains as well?

nhgrif

"At my previous job, we spent an hour a day in meetings. That always bothered me. I didn't like spending that much time in meetings." And now, without asking that company about how much time they spend in meetings, you have probably eliminated any company that spends that meetings (or more) by virtue of the fact that your statement made them eliminate you from their list of candidates.

Hosch250

@Edward I'd start by writing a Java program, then search the web for specific problems, then put it on CR.

Edward

@Mast Yes, a large number of domains in that time. Everything from commercial antivirus code to BIOS development to database work.

nhgrif

Which specifically though? (Relevant to you learning Java)

Hosch250

22:50

Oracle database work?

Edward

I'm most fluent with C, C++, Python, assembly languages (various), Perl. I know a couple others, but don't do much with them any more, like BASIC, FORTRAN, Forth, Erlang and Lisp and Java.

@Hosch250 No, the last serious db work I did was with dBASE, so that gives you some idea about timeframe...

nhgrif

I see.

I mean, I'd think C++ is probably the closest to Java.

Edward

@nhgrif Well actually, Java circa 2005 is probably even closer.

Mast

Python and C++ both look a little like it.

Hosch250

Probably, seeing as Java is built as a pure OO C++ originally (well, sort of).

nhgrif

22:54

@Edward Yeah, that's true enough I guess.

Mast

@Hosch250 Reads more like C# though.

nhgrif

You mean C# reads like Java?

Hosch250

@Mast C# is based on Java.

Things really started with C.

nhgrif

C# is Microsoft's response to being sued by Sun Microsystems for the things Microsoft was doing to Java.

Mast

@nhgrif I'll take that into consideration. It seems so simple. I'll definitely need more interview experience, which is a matter of evaluating and more practice.

Hosch250

22:55

Then C++ was built as an improvement of C.

Mast

@Hosch250 Ah, I never knew which was first.

nhgrif

Java is almost 10 years older than C#.

C++ and Objective-C are each about 10 years older than Java.

Hosch250

Java was designed because people were sick of C users writing C++ in a procedural style, so they built Java to be a pure OO language.

Mast

Well, I knew Java was old, but is old Java comparable to new Java?

nhgrif

Yes.

Hosch250

22:56

Then Microsoft was modifying Java, or something, got sued, and C# is the result.

Next up - F# (which looks like Python's and .NET's illegitimate child).

user82302

I've always liked C# but not Java

Mat's Mug

@Hosch250 C# is not the result of MS-Java.

Hosch250

No, C# is the result of the lawsuit.

Mat's Mug

I call bullshit

Hosch250

But, C# was built because MS liked Java, but wanted to do things their own way.

And Oracle said No.

Mat's Mug

23:00

22

A: What is the history of the creation of C#?

Semicolons are mathematically proven to make your language at least 9% sexier.

Ethan Bierlein

@Hosch250 I think F# is more like Haskell and .NET's illegitimate child.

nhgrif

Oracle has nothing to do with it @Hosch250

Hosch250

Oops, Sun.

Didn't Sun and Oracle merge?

nhgrif

10

A: What is the history of the creation of C#?

Microsoft was using Java: they had their own JVM and supported it in Internet Explorer, but they wanted Java to interoperate with existing C++/VB code bases, and extended Java to provide that. Sun didn't like that, because it didn't want to see "Microsoft Java" applications that wouldn't run on ...

Hey

Want to know how magical Swift is?

Ethan Bierlein

Yes

nhgrif

23:04

swift-is-magic is barely a year old. It is already listed as an influence on a programming language.

rust implemented Swift's if let

Ethan Bierlein

Huh.

Mast

@Mat'sMug I'm so tempted to flag it NAA...

nhgrif

github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/160

Mast

@nhgrif I was expecting a fairy tale.

Hosch250

I wonder what programmers would think if I started calling C Sharp C Pound or C Hash.

Mast

23:06

Like Eric and his packet gnomes.

nhgrif

swift-is-actual-magic swift-isnt-a-fairy-tale

3

Mast

esolangs.org/wiki/Magic

nhgrif

Mast

Magic, ..., is a language where you summon spirits, which are objects with a list of instructions, to do your bidding, with spells which are the recipes of the spirits.

Edward

History teaches us to be wary of internet histories of programming languages.

nhgrif

23:08

> enchant fizzbuzz if (= (% n 15) 0) and (print "FizzBuzz") (skip 3)

Ethan Bierlein

@Hosch250 They'd banish you to the horrid land of eternal VB6 programming.

nhgrif

So, nevermind how horrendous if (= (% n 15) 0) is... (skip 3) because we're still on the fence about whether or not GOTO is acceptable.

GOTO is better than (skip 3)

Because my GOTO doesn't break every time I put a new line of code between where I'm going from and where I'm going to... and I don't have to manually count lines.

2

Hosch250

Who uses skip 3?

nhgrif

"Magic" language.

Edward

@nhgrif You sound like an assembly language programmer, and I mean that it a good way.

Mast

23:11

He's right ^^

Hosch250

I thought you were talking about Assembly at first.

But even Assembly has labels.

nhgrif

Oh, by the way...

EBrown

@Mat'sMug Got my c# bronze badge. ;)

nhgrif

enchant fizzbuzz if (= (% n 15) 0) and (print "FizzBuzz") (skip 3)

oops

Cybersecurity Expert Gary Miliefsky

►

Mast

cyber security awareness month?

Wut...

nhgrif

23:13

That video is from like October or November

EBrown

I would never wish to see a skip n in place of a GOTO...that sounds like a horrible idea.

nhgrif

October 1, 2014

EBrown

I only use that in tis-100 because JRO ACC is really freaking handy.

Mast

@nhgrif Users are stupid, but that security expert is really looks like he's trying to scare people instead of bringing valuable information.

nhgrif

Yeah. That video is absurd.

But his tip at the end suggests that an app that is less than 100kb is automatically safe.

EBrown

23:16

@nhgrif I had a phone interview for another job yesterday...

Edward

@Mast Unfortunately, that's a common flaw I've observed with certain "security experts."

Hosch250

Maybe people need to be scared.

5

Mast

@Edward Definitely.

Ethan Bierlein

That ^^

nhgrif

So... at work, we're going to organize a "hackathon" (as we call them) in which the challenge is to develop an app that is less than 100kb and is flashlight malware.

Hosch250

23:17

I've heard a good scare is a relaxing as a vacation. Maybe it is a conspiracy to keep people from having their vacations.

Mast

@nhgrif Now that's a great way of teambuilding.

Hosch250

(I totally don't buy that, though.)

nhgrif

We regularly do "hackathons"

Last one we did, we were going to take on a project that required technologies that few people we had were familiar with

so the challenge was to build something with that

I think the point of this one will be to expose some real information about what is and isn't possible or reasonable with mobile apps.

Mast

Good method of inventorying what knowledge is available.

Edward

Yes, and also a way for people to collaborate in a fun way.

Mat's Mug

23:20

@Hosch250 it's "sharp", as in "C sharp" or "D flat", in musical terms. c#-is-music

2

Edward

@Hosch250 Simply scaring people is easy and useless. Motivating and informing is harder but actually useful.

Hosch250

@Mat'sMug Like I don't know that.

EBrown

@Mat'sMug Starred for c#-is-music.

Mast

@Mat'sMug That's it. Next project I'll write in D flat.

2

Jeroen Vannevel

dlang.org

get crackin'

Mast

23:21

D != D flat

Hosch250

D Flat is what the trolls call C#.

Mat's Mug

@Hosch250 s/Linux people/trolls

3

Edward

You could use the real D flat language: thenextlanguage.net/introducing-db

Mat's Mug

lol

EBrown

@Edward Won't load for me.

Oh wait, just loaded.

Edward

23:25

More details on this fascinating new technology: codeproject.com/Articles/13639/Db-The-Future-Is-Coming

EBrown

I don't like it because it's written as Db when in strictly ASCII text...which reminds me of Database.

Jeroen Vannevel

if (something)
}
  // do something
{

lol

EBrown

@JeroenVannevel Should the parenthesis not be reversed as well?

Mast

@Edward I didn't know that existed.

Jeroen Vannevel

straight copy-paste from the official docs

Mast

23:26

@JeroenVannevel That's awful.

Edward

ciao, all

EBrown

This is awesome.

Mast

@Edward Release date: Apr 01, 2012

Took me way too long to notice that...

Db gives you access to generic Hash, Pot, Coke, Crystal, and other useful collections. These are cheaper implementations than those found in C#, reducing (if not actually eliminating) memory requirements, and in fact, the new generics actually accelerate the performance of your application. All the generics are handled in the StreetCorner.Pharmacy namespace.

Another benefit to the new generics is that they automatically spawn additional threads. The programmer should be careful that these other threads do not result in schizophrenic or psychotic behavior of the application. However, used in moderation, they can definitely enhance your end-user experience.

source

Zak

Q: Is this an unreasonably long function name? "CellContainingStringInRange"

Ethan Bierlein

I feel like this user learns nothing between each C++ question they post.

Mast

23:36

@Zak Language? In C#, that's average.

Zak

VBA

RubberDuck

Some people just don't @EthanBierlein.

Ethan Bierlein

For example, in each question, they always have using namespace std;.

And #include "stdafx.h" without the need for it.

RubberDuck

No. It's not unreasonably long @Zak, but it's a noun. Method names should be verbs.

Zak

well, it means my code can read "set range = CellContainingStringInRange (searchRange, searchString)"

Ethan Bierlein

23:38

And brr system("PAUSE");.

Zak

"FindCellContainingStringInRange" doesn't feel like it reads as well

Mast

@EthanBierlein I don't think I've seen it this bad with a user before.

Are such users worth a meta or do we just repeat ourselves and farm free points?

Zak

Maybe just point out that you've given them the same advice before?

and THEN if they don't change, well, I dunno :)

Ethan Bierlein

@Mast I mean sure, free points are nice, but I'm getting tired of elaborating about what I described above.

Zak

or you could just link your previous answer where appropriate?

Ethan Bierlein

23:41

I might just start downvoting the posts if I don't see any change.

Mast

@EthanBierlein I'm in the process of writing standard answers for certain issues which are very extensive.

Ethan Bierlein

Nice.

That'll be very useful.

Actually, if nobody minds, I'm going to write a meta post on this.

Mast

Oh darn...

@Mast I keep using #include <iostream> and using namespce std because my professor requires them in the program codes that are turned in. — Duck 1 min ago

#Doomed

Duga

Is there a problem or not? This really is not the place to be asking "does my code lool right". There is another site for that codereview.stackexchange.com — Blakes Seven 21 secs ago

Ethan Bierlein

@Duck Show these answers to your professer an explain why these things are bad practice. — Ethan Bierlein 1 min ago

@Duck Just because this is a beginning course doesn't mean it's fine to get into bad habits. — Ethan Bierlein 14 secs ago

Mast

23:46

@EthanBierlein Feel free to make it a meta.

Zak

do we have a wiki?

Mast

This is a situation which should have been discussed there at least once.

Zak

I se wiki referenced in meta sometimes but I've no idea what or where it is

Mast

@Zak Community wiki's.

588

Q: What are "Community Wiki" posts?

Some questions and answers are marked Community Wiki and are owned by a Community Wiki user. Why have Community Wiki posts? How do Community Wiki posts work? How does a post become a Community Wiki post? How can the Community Wiki status be removed from a post? Return to FAQ Index

support faq community-wiki posts

Mat's Mug

aka "CW"

Mast

23:48

RTF

Mat's Mug

M

Mast

@Mat'sMug No, Read The FAQ

No M necessary

Mat's Mug

lol yeah yeah

Zak

ah, okay. I thought it meant an actual wiki and I was confused because I couldn't find a button for it anywhere :)

Mast

>I'm confused now: I was under the impression that wireless was done via carrier pigeons. Has this task been outsourced to fairies now?

Ethan Bierlein

23:52

What are people's opinions on auto?

Mast

Did I break markdown again...

@EthanBierlein Most people like it, I don't.

Ethan Bierlein

@Mast I agree with you

It reduces code clarity.

In some cases.

Mast

@EthanBierlein The advantage of C++ in my opinion is you always know what you get.

There's no magic involved.

No assumptions.

No implicit type casting.

You all throw that overboard when you start auto-ing.

If I wanted an auto I'd write Python

2

Zak

Question, did any "generic-<language> improvements" a la meta.codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/1644/… ever get put up?

BEcause if not, I'd like to revive the idea

Mast

@Zak We already did, couple of minutes ago.

@Mat'sMug is against, so we'll just have to buy Simon's protection and make it happen.

Captain Obvious

23:57

0

Q: Full C Snake game ( but very slow )

Hello guys I today I managed to finish my C approach on legendary Snake game. You move by wasd. I would like to hear your oppinion and maybe ideas, how to improve frame rate, because now it sort of flickers ( but it is playable ). #include <conio.h> #include <stdio.h> #include <ctime> #include <...

c game

Mast

@EthanBierlein Would it have helped if all her questions were tagged beginner?

@Zak We could make it a CR project on GitHub or something.

Create a folder for every language and a file for every common problem.

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