Fate chat and game room

trogdor

00:00

mm

BESW

The fundamental idea here is that you can represent stress and consequences as external to the character, given the right scenario/character.

trogdor

ok, yeah I see that

I am still reading it

BESW

So Superman can be physically invulnerable without being immune to stress or consequences; they're just narrated differently.

trogdor

but I was confused by his initial statements

C. Ross

@BESW I think that type of thing might work for Lord Northface, not that he's immune to damage of any sort

BESW

00:02

It'd be fun to experiment with!

C. Ross

For example, having the Princess he's protecting might represent a consequence for him ...

trogdor

so the point isn't just "some characters are invulnerable", it's also partly, "not every consequence has to be physical damage to your character"

BESW

Yeah. It's not something DFRPG would necessarily endorse, as they're pretty firm on "physical attacks have physical consequences," but it's definitely something the Fate system can absorb.

@C.Ross I think Princess Keredwel's a mild consequence on everyone she meets.

trogdor

which is pretty unfair, untill you realize it goes away with her

and if she meets you in the middle of a fight, it hits your enemies too

BESW

Again, the poor girl is probably a lot more tolerable and competent in her own comfort zone.

@Flamma Hi!

trogdor

00:10

if by poor you mean, "won't even run from a dragon who said it would eat her"

then yes

even a princess out of her depth should know to run from a dragon who admits it is hungry and is considering eating her

even Kirby figured that out :P

BESW

I suspect it's less "doesn't know she should" and more a combination of "is used to other people protecting her" and "is so scared she physically can't."

trogdor

I guess

that does make some sense

BESW

If you watch, you'll see that she is smart --clever, even?-- but in her own way that isn't always suited to the situations she finds herself in.

trogdor

hmm

BESW

She's actually pretty good at trying to find cover and make herself less of a target, and the rest of her actions are dedicated to getting others to protect her.

trogdor

00:14

I know she "tricked" Kirby,... but Zeminar was helping her

BESW

She manipulated Kirby superbly, which was a polite social situation and she does fine in those. Zemenar didn't really give her any help; he just gave her the job.

trogdor

I kinda didn't attribute credit to her,... especially when she freaked out over the stuff he said

BESW

She screamed when he appeared in a clap of thunder, but recovered immediately and expected him to fulfill his end of their bargain.

trogdor

mk, I do seem to recall that

but, big surprise, she got hoodwinked

BESW

As soon as she suspected he was going to renege, she flipflopped over to Sanguine as the most competent protector available.

trogdor

00:18

you shouldn't be so surprised that Zem stole the show though

BESW

Oh, I'm not.

trogdor

you even gave him flashy as his highest skill and a stunt going with it

BESW

I'm actually rather pleased that everyone thought Keredwel was a total ditz.

trogdor

she has acted like it

but in understandable ways

I suppose

BESW

But if you analyze her actions in terms of situation awareness and goal-oriented planning, instead of just seeing the surface histrionics, you'll see she's out of her depth but not an idiot.

trogdor

00:20

well,... the problem there is that I don't know exactly what she already knows

and what she doesn't

BESW

Histrionics are great for manipulating people; she's gotten an oracle, an assassin and a knight to do what she wants.

trogdor

so some of the things she has done are all I have to color my opinion

yeah,..... but she has burned bridges

BESW

Certainly. She's not in a position to work with nuance; she's winging it.

trogdor

I am 100% sure that at least one of those three people isn't exactly her best freind now

in fact, I think the knight is the only one still helping her now at this point

BESW

In a less chaotic, more courtly situation she'd have spent days or weeks building up free tags on advantages to get her way such that everyone would love her for it afterward.

trogdor

00:22

sang is kinda cozy with the dragon

and Kirby is at least upset that she didn't run (which would have at least left the dragon with a choice of who to run after,.. at least in his opinion)

I don't think he understands the whole manipulation thing, but not helping him run from a dragon is bad enough

BESW

Yeah, I don't know how much the characters realize Keredwel's competence--probably not much at all--but I'm fine with the players seeing it.

trogdor

hiding competence is a pretty useful skill

but it isn't without it's drawbacks

Problematic

00:45

Offhand, can someone point to rules that let you remove aspects from yourself?

Specifically, aspects created by another character.

C. Ross

> You can also use this to establish any effect worth two shifts as an additional benefit of succeeding at the skill roll. This might be Fair (+2) passive opposition, the equivalent of a 2-point hit, a mild consequence, or an advantage that takes Fair (+2) opposition to remove.

@Problematic FATE Core Electronic Edition, page 90

@BESW Speaking of the dragon and Keredwel, do you have time for a quick session?

Problematic

@C.Ross Thanks.

BESW

@C.Ross Haroom. Yes.

tracking sheet, still as it was from our last session

Shall we treat this as a continuation of the last scene?

The last scene, for reference.

C. Ross

@BESW It's all one scene so far as I'm concerned

BESW

I believe that Lord Brandon Northface just got a tie on an attack that was attempting to flatter the dragon by offering to spread its name, with the result that the dragon spluttered out some Not So Smooth cover for the fact that it hasn't been allowed to choose a name yet.

C. Ross

00:55

I believe it was Create Advantage but yes

BESW

So it's Keredwel's turn.

The sprawling princess attempts to gather her skirts and dignity around herself.

[Removing the "Sprawling" aspect before anyone can tag it against her. I think she should get a +2 because "not being flat on the ground with your skirts out of flounce" falls under "social niceties." Do you agree?]

trogdor

oooh

C. Ross

[Fair]

BESW

4d6

Dice Service

•

trogdor

00:58

I definitely am interested in the combat I bailed on like a wuss

BESW

[that's a total of +0. As it was just a boost and nobody's likely to actively oppose her, I think sitting up and straightening her ruffles is reasonably a +0 task, so she succeeds.]

trogdor

seems reasonable

C. Ross

[Then the dragon]

BESW

Keredwel rises to a kneeling pose, careful not to further destroy her now beyond-repair-without-the-aid-of-a-fairy-godmother gown.

The dragon's blustering wears down quickly as it realizes that it's being a little silly. "So, ah, what--[cough] What peace do you propose, then, Sir Knight?" It peers at the heraldry on Lord Northface's shield. "What kingdom do you--ah--represent with which I might--um... make treaty?"

C. Ross

[What is he trying to do here?]

BESW

01:04

[attempting to Cleverly remove Not So Smooth (which is in line with its stunt to Cleverly create social advantages, I think). If it succeeds with style, maybe it'll be a Smooth Negotiator!]

[Ah, no, I think it's an Overcome, so that's not in the purview of its stunt.]

4d6

Dice Service

•

Problematic

[ just gonna leave this here for discussion after the session: discourse.problematic.io/t/high-noon-pre-gen-characters/25/2 ]

C. Ross

[I'm assuming I can oppose with my response]

BESW

[Naturally. The dragon got a +2 overall.]

C. Ross

Lord Northface squints then replies to the dragon "I represent none but myself, and I represent all mankind. If you make peace with me I will carry word of you to all this area, and call for peace with you among the many adventurers that inhabit it."

[Flashy enough?]

BESW

01:08

[Sounds good to me, Walt Whitman.]

C. Ross

4d6

Dice Service

•

C. Ross

[+1 + 3 = 4]

BESW

[The dragon still has an Impression of Power tag, which he'll use to bring it up to a tie at +4. The Impression of Power will fade after this, as it was a boost.]

C. Ross

[So he gets rid of a boost by using a boost?]

BESW

01:11

[Yup!]

C. Ross

[Lord Northface's turn then ...]

BESW

[wait up]

[Gotta narrate, and he really wants that With Style boost, so he'd also like to spent a Fate point each on your Confidence Singed consequence (you'll get the point at the end of the scene) and his Student of Dragon Etiquette.]

[I suggest you use the Not So Smooth tag before it vanishes, to deny him the Style boost.]

C. Ross

[Didn't know I could do that, but I will, bringing my total to +6]

BESW

The dragon stretches, displaying great physique and poise to complement its negotiating skill. Lord Northface rubs a singed eyebrow with one hand, but remembers the dragon's blustering just a moment before, and is not cowed.

[Brandon's turn!]

C. Ross

[One more pass at creating an advantage.]

"So Dragon, who's ancient elegant name I cannot pronounce, let alone fahtom, do you see how having a knight, the traditional enemy of your kind spreading word of your wisdom can but bring you glory. You will be like no other dragon ever to walk this forest or the lands beyond."

[Attempting to flashily create advantage: perhaps Tempted by Fame]

BESW

01:22

@C.Ross [pronounce is in there twice]

trogdor

yeah

C. Ross

@BESW [whoops]

BESW

[I'm not even sure the dragon wants to defend. Well played. Um... How do you think he'd defend?]

C. Ross

[Careful, using what restraint he? has]

BESW

[Sounds good. Roll! I'll narrate his response based on the outcome.]

C. Ross

01:25

4d6

Dice Service

•

BESW

4d6

Dice Service

•

C. Ross

[-1 + 3 = +2]

BESW

[I have... +0.]

[Are you going to spend FP or tags to get With Style?]

C. Ross

01:26

[No, I think a success will do]

trogdor

humiliate it

BESW

The dragon weighs the knight's words Carefully, a crafty glint growing in the corner of its eye. "Yes, Sir Knight, I see the wisdom in your words..."

C. Ross

@trogdor [Huh?]

BESW

[what aspect would you like?]

trogdor

I just mean spending FP

C. Ross

01:29

[Tempted by Fame I think]

@trogdor [Negative base, I have one left and I'm saving that for the appropriate moment]

trogdor

mk

BESW

The Princess calls out, "Oh, brave knight! To parley with such a beast and match words with its legendary wit, surely this is a feat of strength no less than those won on the field of battle! I pray you, stay the course and defeat it with thy sharpened tongue!"

trogdor

I think some point when you didn't already win is likely to be appropriate

@BESW (kiss up)

C. Ross

@trogdor [While I'm on this hilltop with this dragon I haven't won ...]

@BESW [Create an inspired advantage for me?]

trogdor

no, I mean the current roll

BESW

01:33

@C.Ross [No such luck; she's compelling Lord Northface's next action to directly involve ensuring her safety from the dragon.]

C. Ross

@BESW [Curse my luck :-(]

BESW

[You'll get the FP from a compel right away.]

C. Ross

[I'll take it]

BESW

[In that case, she'll use her action to give you that Inspired to Glory aspect.]

4d6

Dice Service

•

BESW

01:36

[+4!]

[She's got two tags on that, which she'll happily give you.]

C. Ross

[Good]

BESW

The dragon continues, ignoring the princess's outburst. "...but I am a dragon. To ask favors of me is no--um--simple thing. What do you ask of this dragon?"

C. Ross

[What is he attempting?]

BESW

[Forcefully creating advantage, bluntly impressing on Brandon that this dragon is ~~No Small Foe~~ Not An Easy Ally.]

4d6

Dice Service

•

BESW

01:40

[+3]

C. Ross

[Going to attempt to a flashy defense, it's been working so far.]

BESW

[I've been a little lenient about stretching 'flashy,' but it's leading to great dialogue so I'm calling it a win all around.]

C. Ross

@BESW [Fair, we can drop back to careful if you don't think this is good enough]

Lord Northface looks up at the dragon, a calm smile on his glowing face. "Nothing but what will make you a very well known dragon: your solemn antediluvian word that you will let us ride off this hill unharmed."

4d6

Dice Service

•

C. Ross

[The glow might have been sweat: -1 + 3 (for flashy, or +2 for forcefull or careful) so +2. Going to invoke Inspired by Glory]

BESW

01:46

[1 tag down, and a successful defense!]

[Brandon's turn, and I suggest you press the advantage and attack.]

C. Ross

[I want to convince him to let us off this hill, is that an overcome or do I need to make an attack action?]

BESW

[It'd be an opposed overcome to just ride away, but if you want it to let you go, you'll need to take it out, get it to concede, or do some very convincing compel work.]

C. Ross

[Oh good, I'd forgotten you reduced his stress]

BESW

[A social attack that deals it sufficient stress --perhaps force it to take one consequence-- will likely make it concede; it's a young dragon, after all, and not battle-hardened in physical or social combat.]

trogdor

an extra stress track was deemed an uninteresting way of increasing it's difficulty

BESW

01:52

@trogdor [Yeah, my new default is to give extra consequences instead of armor or stress boxes. Bonuses to defensive rolls are also on the table.]

C. Ross

Brandon begins to turn his mount toward the Princess, not quite turning his back on the dragon, "So great one, I entreat you, let us off this hill in peace, and you will be remembered. Show us that you are not just another dragon."

trogdor

@BESW (yeah, and that is a much more interesting way of doing it)

C. Ross

[Social attack with flashy or forceful, planning a few tags]

BESW

@C.Ross [If you would like to invent a stunt (you've still got two slots open) to support this, feel free!]

[Looks forceful to me.]

C. Ross

@BESW [Back Down because I am a Knight who believes Blessed are the peacemakers I get +2 to socially attack to force an enemy to not fight.]?

BESW

01:56

@C.Ross [Ooh, nice.]

C. Ross

4d6

Dice Service

•

C. Ross

[+1 +2 + 2 for +5 before tags]

BESW

[The dragon will defend carefully again, weighing options and value.]

4d6

Dice Service

•

BESW

01:58

[...+5.]

C. Ross

[Tag time! Definitely free tag on Tempted by Fame and Inspired by Glory (I'm going to turn my back on a dragon).]

BESW

[Definitely.]

C. Ross

[Can I take the free tag on Distracted by the Man in Metal as I need the Dragon's rapt attention, and this is a new experience for it?]

BESW

[I think so. You can also spend FP on the dragon's aspects if you like.]

[Proud Young Dragon and I Want To Grow Up Now are ripe for the picking.]

C. Ross

[I'll drop a FP on Proud Young Dragon, and since I got the one from the princess's compel my Blessed are the Peacemakers.]

BESW

02:02

@C.Ross [Compel or invoke?]

C. Ross

[That will tap me out but that would turn my +5 into a +15]

@BESW [What would I compel for?]

BESW

@C.Ross [Never mind, I misunderstood what you said.]

C. Ross

[He's attempting to get him? so wrapped up in his? own words and desires that he chooses peace, what Brandon wants]

[So, +15?]

BESW

[So that's 10 shifts on the dragon.]

[-2 for a mild consequence, -6 for a severe consequence, and 2 stress? Yeeeeah, this dragon is taken out. No way it's going to take that kind of mental damage.]

[You get to decree the terms of victory, and I'll narrate the dragon's specific actions within that.]

C. Ross

[I'd like him to sit on this hilltop until we are out of sight, and at least assume peace with men for some time to come...]

BESW

02:09

[Interesting.]

The dragon rocks back on its haunches. "YES, SIR KNIGHT. YOU MAY GO, AND TAKE THIS... Princess? I still can't believe that's a Princess. ...PRINCESS WITH YOU. WHEN I AM KING, I WILL REMEMBER THIS DAY."

Keredwel swings up onto the horse behind the knight, waiting for neither invitation nor aid.

As they ride into the Forest, a faint voice is heard: "Oh, bother. There go the scones."

C. Ross

"I wonder what happened to that hermit..."

BESW

//end scene!

Very nice, and now perhaps we have some insight into why the dragon only burninated a wizard on its future rampage.

C. Ross

And I get one FP from the invoke?

BESW

Right.

C. Ross

That went ... much better than I expected ...

BESW

02:16

The Forest is kinder to strangers who try to solve things with manners than with violence.

C. Ross

Well then, it might tolerate Lord Northface ...

BESW

By forcing the dragon to be Careful instead of Flashy, you seriously dropped its ability to defend.

(I designed it that way on purpose.)

C. Ross

Yeah, took some heat while I was working the conflict onto my terms

Any thoughts for good aspects?

BESW

Well, what have we learned about him?

C. Ross

He's well spoken, and he has some steel in his spine

BESW

02:18

He's a negotiator; but he's not just calm in the face of physical danger, he outright thrives in it.

C. Ross

hmmm, perhaps the wrong phrasing but Good man in a storm

BESW

Running straight into a dragon's flaming breath, shouting defiance until he was close enough to open negotiations.

Maybe an aspect about his steed, who we don't know much about but is clearly at least as steely-nerved as its rider.

C. Ross

@BESW again, I'm shocked it worked

@BESW true

trogdor

lol

C. Ross

Upon a Steed of Steel sounds fun :-)

but too much like a motorcycle

BESW

02:21

I put you into that situation because it was exactly what you'd told me Brandon was good for: throwing himself in between a damsel and danger, and then talking everyone down.

Turns out you were right.

C. Ross

Yeah, but now he's saddled with Keredwel, not sure how that's going to work.

BESW

Bweheheheheh.

C. Ross

He can't charge into danger with her clinging on.

Anyway, now I should sleep

BESW

G'night! Thanks for the session.

C. Ross

G'night, thank you!

Good luck @trogdor ;-)

BESW

02:23

...Kerewdel shouldn't be a problem for too long, unless she abandons her Mighty Love for Lord Northface.

(Her offscreen fiance is a card up the GMs' sleeves, to be pulled out either to fuel a scene or to get her out of everyone's hair.)

@Problematic Gabriel Blackwood is a lot more detailed than I'd imagined the pregens to be!

I like him.

trogdor

lol

ty

and good night

BESW

Let's see. I think the dragon needs an aspect change.

BESW

02:38

Updated EF 008.5: In Which Words and Blows are Exchanged and an Accord is Reached.

Problematic

Speaking of timelines, we should put one together for story events.

@BESW Likewise. I sat down to give him a few skills and a stunt or two, and a full character popped out. I'm not sad about it, though.

BESW

02:57

Yeah, keeping pregens sketchy can be an exercise in self-restraint.

I suspect that one strategy is to build fully-realized characters and then scale them back.

Another would be to work on tropes and not individualize them.

Problematic

Well, how do we find the right balance? I'm not sure there's a good reason to have wireframes instead of full characters?

BESW

Only in the sense that it makes more room for the players.

Take a look at the Night Fears NPCs. They're not flat, but they're tropey enough and open enough for each of them to be a totally different kind of character depending on who's playing them.

Problematic

I think in the interest of game balance in a PvP environment, there's gonna have to be a lot of careful consideration

BESW

Yeah, we run the risk of turning it into rock-paper-scissors, which is bad.

Problematic

@BESW Oh hey, free is good.

BESW

03:12

@Problematic All three of the DFRPG modules are free. [grin]

Problematic

... first thing I see: "Ghost of a murdered infant" :(

trogdor

03:46

yeah

that was pretty messed up

BESW

06:18

@Problematic Durp, I was typing too fast. Meant to say "Take a look at the Night Fears PCs." But the NPCs are decent examples too.

Problematic

06:28

@BESW Aye, I just read through the whole thing. Very informative.

BESW

It's DFRPG, so needs a lot of filtering, but the basic ideas are very Core.

I have a credulity issue with the High Noon mod.

In a card game it's more easily glossed over, I guess: How does the Sheriff not know who his own deputy is?

[invents an alien abduction+mindwipe subplot]

Problematic

Alcohol.

trogdor

lol

yeah,... I was little put off by that too

BESW

Actually...

trogdor

but old west sheriffs could not possibly have all had such an easy time that alcoholism wasn't an issue

BESW

06:37

[invents an Aliens vs MIB subplot]

trogdor

lol

I approve this message

BESW

Everyone also gets a random assignation: Hapless Human, Alien Among Them, or Man In Black.

trogdor

what will theses do exactly? lol

BESW

Add flavor!

Problematic

Ha. I've been pondering the merits of FATE for a murder mystery-type game. It would be perfect.

trogdor

06:39

mmm

BESW

The Men In Black and Alien Among Them have a Secret Primary Goal that overrides their High Noon goals.

Winning both is best, naturally.

Let's see... the Hapless Humans need something else to do also.

Maybe everyone is an MIB except the Alien?

...yes. I like.

Problematic

You still need the Sheriff-type who is a public figure and drives the paranoia.

BESW

Ooh.

Okay, backing up. Alien: survive the game undetected. MIB: capture the alien alive. Hapless humans: Kill the alien.

Problematic

Nice.

The only way to tell if an alien is an alien is to...?

Holland Wilson

Conspiracy theorist: spread panic and tin foil hats.

trogdor

06:42

MIB

capture everyone

got the alien

normal humans

panic and try to kill all people

killed everyone? then you got the alien.

lol

BESW

I think the alien-identification method should be left as a witch-hunt.

Problematic

So the only way to identify is to kill them.

"Hmm. Human." "Whoops."

BESW

And yes, there should be a clued-in rabble-rouser/rogue MIB/etc to stir things up.

Problematic

Bonus points: the macguffin assignment is random, so sometimes the alien can be the macguffin

trogdor

lol

BESW

06:48

Wait, what macguffin?

Problematic

The guy who knows

BESW

Ah.

That's... a different use of that word than I'm familiar with.

trogdor

lol

same

the alien always knows who he is

that's a little silly

Problematic

The thing that drives the plot?

trogdor

hmmm

BESW

06:49

@trogdor No, the point is that this role is "the guy who riles up trouble about it."

Holland Wilson

"Thing" is usually the operative word, as opposed to "person".

Problematic

The Noun that drives the plot :P

BESW

> It actually serves no further purpose. It won't pop up again later, it won't explain the ending, it won't actually do anything except possibly distract you while you try to figure out its significance. In some cases, it won't even be shown. It is usually a mysterious package/artifact/superweapon that everyone in the story is chasing. TV Tropes

trogdor

oh

Problematic

@BESW I stand by my usage.

trogdor

06:51

I just figured it was always a superweapon of some kind

that had no explination for it's existence

BESW

@trogdor It's traditionally a suitcase of diamonds, or The Secret Plans, or something like that.

trogdor

other than, yes, plot driving

Problematic

07:24

If you had a "user is typing" indicator in SE chat, how would you display it?

trogdor

.......

BESW

It would not cover up any existing part of the interface, nor would it appear as a temporary line in the chat itself.

trogdor

those probably

BESW

@trogdor [hisses, recoils]

trogdor

lol

I find that serviceable

but wtv

BESW

07:26

I dunno how it looks on other peoples' chats, but I've got some lovely unused space just below the SEND/UPLOAD buttons.

If I start typing and then change my mind and erase it, it shouldn't make the whole chat jump.

trogdor

hmm

I have,.... a small amount of space there

I dunno if it's enough though

BESW

Alternate: A small indicator on the "In the Room" icons.

A "pen" icon in the lower right corner of the relephant icon, for example.

trogdor

unless you mean the empty white space? not the decorated brownish space?

there is plenty of room there

and it never seems to get used

BESW

The brown space under the "send" and "upload" buttons.

But I'm now preferring the icon idea; it's less likely to get overloaded by multiple typers.

trogdor

oh

"under"

I thought I read above

oh,... hmm

the problem is that people can adjust the space in which they type

they can expand it,... so I think the icon idea really is much better

Problematic

07:35

Can you find me such a suitable icon?

BESW

Moment.

Ooh, lots of choices, none obviously best.

misteraibo.deviantart.com/art/Vector-Pencil-299419909

Problematic

That works. You are skilled in the art of graphics manipulation, yes?

BESW

Depends on exactly what you want.

I'm not as proficient in web output, but shoot.

Problematic

Just need it small and transparent background.

BESW

See also: quills! But not as readable in small form, so meh.

Problematic

07:42

The presence icon is 32x32, so I don't know how big you were imagining

BESW

Let's see....

[shifts brain into design gear]

(My brain is a manual, and it's a bit balky.)

What file type?

Problematic

.png, I suppose

BESW

Hmmm.

Try this:

I'm thinking bottom right corner.

Problematic

Thanks.

BESW

If I did my math right, it'll neatly go from the middle of the right side to the middle of the bottom side of the icon.

(I'm not sure if Deviantart noticed my viewing habits, or if the stock vector art on the site has actually been as overrun with ponies as it seems based on my searches.)

(Either seems plausible.)

trogdor

07:55

they could just have tracking cookies

Problematic

Hrm. Gonna have to save image fiddling for another day, just gonna do ugly borders for now.

BESW

Wooo!

"Image Fiddling and the Ugly Borders" would be a good name for grunge cover band.

Problematic

Yes. Yes it would.

BESW

Hmmm. Use this one instead.

ARGH. Go away, background.

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