whatever, quid - 2020-07-14

amWhy

00:00

"Has or does Maths.SE suffer from shills or cabals of special interest groups looking to peddle influence or control narrative?" That is offensive.

quid

@amWhy maybe. But it is not about what some think it is about.

From the Meta Stack Exchange question: "[W]ould it profit Foo Incorporated, a competitor to The Bar Foundation, to hire a few people to actively monitor their respected tags, looking to harass Anti-Foo contributors, questions, answers, and tags while promoting all things Pro-Bar?" Thus I take it this question is about users influencing the content of the site for goals external to the site, for example, a textbook publisher trying to place good reviews of their books that seem authentic. If ever you meant something else, please clarify. — quid ♦ 2 mins ago

amWhy

@quid Then I'll let them elect who they want as a moderator, because right now, I won't play games.

quid

@amWhy if one takes the context given by the linked meta.se question seriously it has nothing at all to do with, e.g., CURED or anything like that.

amWhy

I'm tired of games, and I'm tired of dishonest arguments to condone crap and the answering of crap.

@quid Not according to the MSE post. But do you give the linker of the post in meta.math.se that much credit? Their aim is only to undermine this site and the folks trying to fight for quality. But you are free to believe what you want. This user is toxic.

quid

@amWhy first of all the onus is on them to propose a clear question. It is conceivable that they meant what you suspect they meant, but that's not what they wrote (given the linked, whence my comment).

amWhy

00:09

@quid I appreciate you optimism for all users, save me. But you need only scroll through this users previous meta.math.posts and comments to clear your head. I wish I got as much slack as this user!!

Xander Henderson

@amWhy It is only offensive if a potential moderator answers with a "yes". Personally, I think that it is pretty easy to swat this question down:

> No, there are no shills. Shills are paid to promulgate a point of view, and I see no evidence that this is going on at Math SE. No, there are no cabals. Cabals are secretive organizations which seek to control things from behind the scenes. CURED is often accused of being a secretive cabal, but the goal is to be transparent. Gentle follows the same model, with apparently opposite goals.

I think that it is transparently obvious that the person who posted that question disagrees, but that account has (as far as I am concerned) no credibility (as they have not performed a single action on the site which can be criticized via the reputation system).

amWhy

00:25

Indeed, @Xander :-)

sai-kartik

01:35

Wait so a mod once is a mod forever?

Also there is only one vacancy on the mod team?

Omar S

10:30

@sai-kartik I don't think so. I have previously seen ex-mods who retired/ quit

@sai-kartik I think so. quid mentioned that it all comes down the moderator team's need for mods. So, one new mod is enough for now

sai-kartik

14:55

@OmarS yes, of course. I'm aware that a mod can retire at any time he/she feels like doing so. What I wasn't aware of is that once you're a mod, you wouldn't have to stand in elections again to serve another term

Hi @TheoreticalEconomist !

Theoretical Economist

@sai-kartik Hello. How are things going?

sai-kartik

@TheoreticalEconomist good!

how bout you?

Theoretical Economist

@sai-kartik Fine, thank you.

Though, disappointed by the lack of Spanish football today. haha

@amWhy I imagine you've been asked this already, but you wouldn't happen to have considered running for a moderator position, would you?

sai-kartik

@TheoreticalEconomist XD

@TheoreticalEconomist not a football follower but whatever :P XD

Theoretical Economist

@sai-kartik You are missing out.

sai-kartik

15:04

@TheoreticalEconomist heard that like a million times xD

Theoretical Economist

@sai-kartik Then it must be true :)

sai-kartik

its quite a fun game but i like basketball the best(stopped following it now)

@TheoreticalEconomist i agree.. but ive no time to do some proper following...

Theoretical Economist

You're in luck then. The Champions League is basically a week and a half in August, and would be a relatively easy way to watch some (hopefully) high-quality football

sai-kartik

@TheoreticalEconomist nice!

amWhy

15:41

@quid I think you are naive, in that respect, and you give the author of the meta.math.se post too much credit.

@sai-kartik If they themselves don't quit or retire, than when elected a mod, one can remain a mod indefinitely, doing virtually nothing, if they log in once ever six months. Therein lies the problem on many sites, including math.se. Inactive mods who should no longer retain the privileges of mod.

sai-kartik

@amWhy hmmm

shouldn't a new rule be placed like a mod should log in a least once a week?

or has that already been tried before with bad responses?

amWhy

16:07

@sai-kartik Mods won't call out other mods. They protect each other, no matter what, or else "look the other way : "I see nothing, I hear nothing"

Theoretical Economist

16:43

@amWhy Not sure if you just missed my question about running for a moderator position, so pinging you about it just in case. I won't take offence if you don't feel like discussing it and just ignore this message. :)

amWhy

17:01

@TheoreticalEconomist Sorry, I've been busy and in and out. No, I do not have any plans to run for a moderator position at this time. Thanks for asking about it.

Theoretical Economist

@amWhy That's too bad, but totally understandable.

quid

18:17

@amWhy I am not naive. I pointed out what I consider as a shortcoming of the post. The question as written is unclear. It can hardly be a good idea to include a question in a general questionnaire when it's interpretation depends on the (assumed) intent of the person that proposed its inclusion.

That's orthogonal to the other problem.

One could say that there are at least two problems with the proposal.

That I focused on the one does not mean that I deny or ignore the existence of the other.

amWhy

18:30

@quid Then I take back that you are naive.

amWhy

18:45

@quid Please send me a script of what I can and cannot say about you or mods or other users in chats, on main, and on meta. Then I can spit out the self-serving spin you want to restrict me to, sir.

@quid You are naive to think the OP of that "answer" was not targeting CURED. But again, please provide me with scripts for what I can say, when, and where.

@quid That you want to claim obliviousness to that fact reveals far more about you than I'd care to know.

quid

21:37

@amWhy It is irrelevant to my point.

First they clarify their answer, then I will voice my opinion on it.

If they never clarify it's moot anyway.

It's not as offensive as to require direct action.

Generally it would help to engage with what I actually say, and not with what you think I say and enters some narrative.

Did you read the linked to meta.se questions carefully. If/once this is done, we can continue the discussion.

Either way it's moot as they question in all likelihood won't be selected seeing the voting.

Especially as 1729 asked something vaguely similar but way more clear and less confrontational.

amWhy

22:38

@quid I thought, at first, you were citing an historical fact about the year 1729! ;D

quid

@amWhy yes always showing of with my erudition.

amWhy

off, @quid (showing off)...

quid

@amWhy so much for a showing of my erudition...

amWhy

@quid Hah!! You clearly show of your erudition!

@quid It still is understandable, and true.

quid

I still did not get your phrase done.

Somebody just bought up this old query (which even became official in a way).

data.stackexchange.com/math/query/256802/…

The 40/40 group is smaller than I thought and I would not have guessed all of them.

There I mention the 40/40 group and @JoséCarlosSantos shows up :-)

I think the highest current and former mods concentration is in 39/40 though.

amWhy

22:58

@quid Very interesting! One candidate I support is 40/40, the other 39/40.

quid

@amWhy the first one needs to be disqualified. (Oh come on you destroyed the joke.)

But also...

16

Q: Candidate score is given incorrectly for users with less than 1k points

The candidate score displayed on election pages contains a reputation points component of 1 point for each 1k reputation points up to a maximum of 20. However, for candidates with less than 1000 reputation points it seems the reputation points are used directly and without capping in the comput...

José Carlos Santos

@quid I did not know what the 40/40 group was. And much less that I belong to it...

amWhy

@quid I think we should wipe the slate of mods clear and elect/replace them with all and only 40/40 folks! ;D

quid

@JoséCarlosSantos yes it mostly comes up around elections. The idea back then was to somehow have another number besides the reputation points.

Xander Henderson

@quid Given that the "Steward: Late Answers" badge is needed for a 40/40 (yes?), I am actually surprised at how many 40/40s there are.

quid

23:03

It was a more sponataneous idea of some user yet it made it into the official process rather quickly.

Xander Henderson

I mean, there seem to be more 40/40 citizenship users than reviewers with that badge.

quid

@XanderHenderson to be blunt that suggest that you are wrong about how the score is determined.

Xander Henderson

Ah... I was just looking at the code.

Ah... I see. Steward is only counted once.

I missed this line:

 Count(distinct b.Name) As BadgeCount,

(the distinct, in particular)

quid

Yes it's one for each badge and 1 for 1K points capped at 20k

Which one do you miss @XanderHenderson

Xander Henderson

@quid I didn't miss one, I just assumed that it was counting all of the badges in the list, where steward would be counted multiple times. I missed the word distinct in the line above.

quid

23:13

@XanderHenderson sorry I changed the subject. You are 39/40 and I wonder which badge you do not have.

Xander Henderson

I have the badges.

I am 160 XP short of having the +20 XP bonus.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Get to work. I'll look the other way if you answer a few PSQ's! (Just kidding!)

Xander Henderson

Heh.

quid

23:32

@XanderHenderson ah, I actually checked for points but just in chat

Transcript for

$Mathematics$ whatever, quid