whatever, quid - 2020-06-29

quid

01:06

@amWhy I am already there.

@amWhy no problem. In the end I pondered that maybe you meant to say you only followed it for a minute.

Xander Henderson

01:23

A question came up in the review queue. Look at the question, it struck me as somewhat lacking in context, but not terrible. However, being something a bit out of my wheelhouse, I looked down at the comments to see if there was something which might help me decide one way or the other. I saw this:

Who on Earth voted to close this question, and why? — Calum Gilhooley 12 hours ago

This honestly made me want to delete it more.

Such polemic comments are incredibly off-putting. :\

quid

01:58

Yes I don't like them either.

I mean the things get discussed over and over. It is alright if somebody disagrees, but it should be somewhat clear why somebody else might take such an action.

sai-kartik

03:41

@quid could you please take a look at my mod flag?

Also are moderators in power to reverse downvotes if they're convinced it's a serial downvoting case?

quid

14:48

@sai-kartik done. On the other question, votes can be reversed but it's not something we control directly.

sai-kartik

Thanks a lot @quid. I see.. I'll keep flagging if I get more of these. Thanks for your service to this community ! Bows down next to @amWhy in respect

amWhy

@sai-kartik Reversals are rare unless there have been five or more downvotes within minutes of each other. (Even then, the script to detect a handful of downvotes in a short period of time fails at times). Even when there is a pattern of a couple downvotes day after day, I can tell you from my experience, they are rarely, if ever reversed. The will is not there to prompt CMs to reverse such votes.

sai-kartik

@amWhy I see....

amWhy

@sai-kartik But do follow up if they continue; continue to flag. Best case scenario is when a problematic downvoter has their account deleted by a mod, in which case you will get back the points they "robbed" from you.

@sai-kartik amWhy Bows down in respect, to you!

quid

@sai-kartik you are welcome.

amWhy

14:57

@sai-kartik Namaste.

@XanderHenderson Indeed!

@XanderHenderson Amen!

sai-kartik

@amWhy Namaste! But please excuse me.. I have some important work...I'll text you guys later :)

amWhy

@sai-kartik No problem! See you.

sai-kartik

@amWhy Bye!

amWhy

@sai-kartik :-)

@quid A quick hello!

quid

@amWhy hello!

How did the week start?

amWhy

15:08

@quid sorry for the confusion. I was on the phone for a length of time with my brother; I typed my last comment yesterday to you with one hand while greeting my brother, holding the phone in the other hand!

(I'm not always the best at double-tasking!). I can switch between tasks fairly well, but I don't do well at trying to do two or more things concurrently.

quid

15:24

@amWhy I found it quite amusing actually; I even thought you created it on purpose as a puzzle for me.

amWhy

@quid How'd you catch on!? I plan every day to puzzle you! :-)

quid

@amWhy I'm very gad about that. Otherwise it would be so booooring. :-)

amWhy

@quid I'm gad you're gad! :-)

@quid If there's one thing I do well on this site, it would be "raising the tempo" so to speak! We can't have an overly booooring site, can we? :-)

quid

@amWhy there is no denying that. But we cannot have it spin out of control either. Thus, some moderation is needed. :-)

amWhy

@quid I do that to keep you all on your toes! I'm actually hired by SE to keep mods on their toes, incognito :-)

In chatrooms, in MSE, in math.se, and in mathed.se!! (And also to stress out CMs, to test their community managing skills!) :-)

Oh, darn, @quid. Now you know I'm undercover! I may have just lost my cover! :-)

Anyway, @quid, how is your Monday going?

quid

15:40

@amWhy I'll keep it a secret. ;-)

amWhy

@quid Sigh! Thanks!! ;-)

quid

@amWhy quite well. It's a relatively relaxed day. No meetings, no deadlines.

amWhy

@quid Wonderful. My Monday has been the same. I was busier on Saturday and part of Sunday, than I am today.

I learned, in my experience, and from my brother's former work schedule, that what comprises one's "weekend" is rather relative.

quid

@amWhy indeed.

amWhy

@quid Very glad, though. You are a very hard worker, and very devoted to everything you take on. So I'm glad you have a bit of a "breather", today!

quid

15:50

@amWhy this is a very kind thing to say. :-)

amWhy

16:15

@quid Question: Are mods able, when they look at a user's profile page, able to see previous usernames used by that account? I'm just wondering, because unless there is some telling feature in their profile (profile statement/about me, e.g.), I don't ordinarily make connections between a new username, and their old account.

quid

@amWhy if we need to we can find out such things.

amWhy

@quid I ask in part because, in our conversation yesterday, I did not recognize a username that you were aware of a previous conflict(s) I had with.

But it is possible I simply forgot the userame, and that it hadn't changed.

quid

@amWhy I don't think that involved any change. Maybe the conflict was less relevant than I thought.

amWhy

@quid In any case, that is helpful to know that.

There is one user who recently changed her username, and has done so about half a dozen times in the last year. It is not fair to users like me to face a seemingly new user who hates my guts, and I have no clue why. I would stay clear of them, but when they change their name so often, I can't always know it when I encounter them.

quid

@amWhy yes that can be an issue. There is a at least a limit on the changes; only a change every 30 days.

Martin Sleziak

16:26

@amWhy In case it is useful in some situations, here is a tool to find old usernames: msleziak.com/stackexchange/oldusernames However, it should not be taken as 100% reliable.

This was developed by a user who used the username Normal Human and many other names. Since the site where he placed it no longer works, I copied it here.

Some related posts: Find old display names of a user and Recognizing identifiable users changing user names.

amWhy

@quid Yes, true. But those who frequently change their user names cannot hold others' accountable for what they claim to be "harassment" or targeting.

@MartinSleziak Thank you!

quid

@amWhy I agree that there is a tension.

sai-kartik

hey guys!

quid

@sai-kartik don't forget the gals!

sai-kartik

oh right 😅

hey guys and gals!

amWhy

16:36

@sai-kartik Hello!!

sai-kartik

@amWhy i seriously suspect you were waiting for me to address the gals 😂

anyway how's the monday going for everyone?

amWhy

@sai-kartik Actually, I was in the process of writing, "As a gal that's an honorary "guy"... hello!" But you posted before I posted! :-)

sai-kartik

@amWhy i am speed <mcqueen.jpg> :P

amWhy

@sai-kartik So far so good, for me.

@sai-kartik :-)

sai-kartik

@amWhy nicee

well my monday hasn't exactly been productive..

and i'm trying to fix that

amWhy

16:40

@sai-kartik It's not yet noon for me, so, I'm hoping the rest of the day goes well, too.

sai-kartik

(though its alreaady 2210 here)

@amWhy i hope it does . :)

amWhy

@sai-kartik Everyone needs to permit a day, here an there, that isn't necessarily "productive"

@sai-kartik Maybe the most productive thing you can do now is get a good night's sleep! :-)

sai-kartik

@amWhy yeah but considering i'm preparing for one of the hardest exams in india, a day isn't exactly what i need off 😬

@amWhy yeah.. after 2hrs

after i finish some chemistry i've allocated for today..

amWhy

@sai-kartik I understand. But especially when under pressure, you need to have days to decompress... to chill, because that helps you perform best when you are under pressure.

@sai-kartik Okay, deal. But If I see you around after 2hrs, I'll scold you!! :P

sai-kartik

@amWhy hmm true. but believe me, i've taken enough such days off xD

@amWhy deal 🤝

amWhy

16:44

@sai-kartik Okay, I believe you!

sai-kartik

anyway i think ill go do some chem now and check back before 0000

cya!

amWhy

@sai-kartik Ask @quid: I can be ruthless when I scold! So don't make me go there. :-)

@sai-kartik cya!

sai-kartik

@amWhy uh-oh...

quid

@amWhy I absolutely confirm that @sai-kartik Only the strongest can resist, and that only on a good day, when the blue question mark of terror comes after you. ;D

amWhy

@quid Hah! ;D

@quid My poor blue question mark is currently being smothered by a face mask!

quid

16:51

@amWhy Camouflage! That's even more vicious.

amWhy

@quid lol! ;D

quid

@amWhy the worst thing is you laugh about it while we shiver in terror.

amWhy

@quid Nyahaha! (She laughs wickedly while holding a broom!)

quid

@amWhy a broom? Should we start calling you amWitch now ;D

amWhy

Wicked Witch of the West - The Wizard Of Oz

►

quid

17:05

@amWhy doesn't work around here but I guess I can locate it elswhere

amWhy

@quid No, I'm an ancestor of Dorothy!

@quid The link? Sorry. It's just a cut from the Wizard of Oz, with the Wicked Witch of the West.

quid

@amWhy yes, Youtube does not provide it here.

amWhy

The Wizard of Oz (1939 film)

The Wizard of Oz is a 1939 American musical fantasy film produced by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer. Widely regarded as one of the greatest films of all time, it is the most commercially successful adaptation of L. Frank Baum's 1900 children's fantasy novel The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Directed primarily by Victor Fleming (who left the production to take over the troubled Gone with the Wind), the film stars Judy Garland as Dorothy Gale alongside Ray Bolger, Jack Haley, and Bert Lahr. Characterized by its use of Technicolor, fantasy storytelling, musical score, and memorable characters, the film has become...

Special note, @quid, Dorothy is the heroine of the musical, and defeats the Wicked Witch of the West!

@quid Youtube is not available in Europe? Or on SE chats?

quid

@amWhy it is available in principle but it says this one video is not available. I could see what it was about though. I could imagine that it is related to who owns the rights where.

amWhy

@quid Ah, I see. Anyway, I hope no-one takes on the name amWitch!

Arjun

17:19

@amWhy, @quid, hi

amWhy

@quid I think I first saw the the 1969 version, was some time as a child, a decade later. (It was initially televised annually.) And I would have to leave the room (living room where our t.v. was) whenever the wicked witch of the west was on screen. She scared me so much!

Arjun

@amWhy, i did not note that last book you recommended of Hermann Hesse, can you please share it again :)

quid

@Arjun hello

Arjun

just the name

amWhy

@Arjun Beneath the Wheel. His first published novel.

Arjun

17:23

@quid, did you ever give two, three hour exams back to back with barely an hour gap

@amWhy , i shall start it today if possible

quid

@Arjun I did not quite get the question;.

Arjun

@quid , see now

quid

@Arjun I don't like long exams.

Arjun

exactly

no one does!, my back still hurts

it's like taking the IMO exams on just one day instead of two

amWhy

@Arjun Yikes! Just reading your account makes my back ache!

Arjun

17:31

@amWhy ,and the bad part is they were multiple choice questions!

format is same as MCQ's but 1,2,3, or all options can be correct

anyway, @amWhy, how was your day? hope it was better than yesterday

amWhy

One of the most interesting multiple choice tests I ever took was in a Cultural Psychology Course (Sophomore level), it was a scratch off multiple choice (five choices per answer), and if the first scratch off was the correct choice, you got five points. But it it was not correct, your could choose a second choice, and if that was correct, you got three points. If neither first or second choice was correct you could try a third choice, which if correct, would gain you one point. ...

If not, there were no points to be had. Considering the subject, I really saw promise in that. But not for mathematics.

@Arjun Yes, my day has been better than yesterday, for sure!

Arjun

@amWhy this exam was rather hard on students, suppose there are three correct answers and a students choses two of the correct ones, the answer is considered wrong(no marks) and moreover they deduct -1 for every wrong one!

amWhy

@Arjun I understand. That's a shame.

Arjun

@amWhy , every single JEE aspirant, works for 7 days a week, 2 years without any breaks, no holidays, no parties. life gets so boring

@amWhy,@quid, sorry if i complained too much, but it feels better now. thanks!

Xander Henderson

17:46

@amWhy That is one of my favorite movies. It isn't a perfect film (for a perfect film, see Charlie and Chocolate Factory, or My Neighbor Totoro), but it is damn close.

@amWhy My father once got incredibly annoyed with students asking for multiple choice exams. So he gave them a multiple choice exam. One question, more than a hundred options (many very similar), only one right answer.

Students never asked him for a multiple choice exam again.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Charlie and Chocolate Factory: With Gene Wilder, or with Johnny Depp?

@XanderHenderson Heh! :-)

Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory

Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory is a 1971 American musical fantasy film directed by Mel Stuart and starring Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka. It is an adaptation of the 1964 novel Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl. The film tells the story of a poor child named Charlie Bucket who, after receiving a Golden Ticket in a chocolate bar, visits Willy Wonka's chocolate factory along with four other children from around the world. Filming took place in Munich from August to November 1970. Dahl was credited with writing the film's screenplay; however, David Seltzer, who went uncredited in the...

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (film)

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is a 2005 musical fantasy film directed by Tim Burton and written by John August, based on the 1964 British novel of the same name by Roald Dahl. The film stars Johnny Depp as Willy Wonka and Freddie Highmore as Charlie Bucket, alongside David Kelly, Helena Bonham Carter, Noah Taylor, Missi Pyle, James Fox, Deep Roy, and Christopher Lee. The storyline follows Charlie as he wins a contest along with four other children and is led by Wonka on a tour of his chocolate factory. Development for a second adaptation of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (filmed previously...

@Xander I suspect you mean the latter, but I loved them both!

Xander Henderson

Oi... Wilder.

What annoys me about the titles of those films is that the older one (called Willy Wonka) is really about Charlie, while the later one (called Charlie) is really about Wonka. I always get the titles of the films wrong because of this.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Indeed!

Xander Henderson

I honestly really dislike the version with Depp. :|

amWhy

@XanderHenderson I've only seen snippets of the Depp version. But I fell in love with Wilder and Co.'s version.

Xander Henderson

17:55

@amWhy Gene Wilder is just amazing. Possibly the best comic actor of the 20th Century.

amWhy

I agree, @Xander. Did you ever see:

The Frisco Kid

The Frisco Kid is a 1979 American western comedy film directed by Robert Aldrich, starring Gene Wilder as Avram Belinski, a Polish rabbi who is traveling to San Francisco, and Harrison Ford as a bank robber who befriends him. == Plot == Rabbi Avram Belinski (Wilder), newly graduated at the bottom of his class from the yeshiva, arrives in Philadelphia from Poland en route to San Francisco where he will be a congregation's new rabbi. He has with him a Torah scroll for the San Francisco synagogue. Belinski, an innocent, trusting, and inexperienced traveler, falls in with three con men, the brothers...

Xander Henderson

YES!

Oh, my goodness! I love that movie.

amWhy

One of my favorite comedies ever!!

quid

@Arjun no problem. I am glad that you feel better now.

Xander Henderson

Just... Gene Wilder in Amish Country. 'nuff said.

amWhy

17:57

@XanderHenderson heh! :-)

Xander Henderson

My mother bought my daughter several movies on DVD for Chanukah last year, including the Wizard of Oz and Willy Wonka (and the Wiz, for good measure). We watched Willy Wonka together---I had such a big grin on my face the whole time.

The kidlet was a bit disturbed by the scene on the boat in the chocolate river, but otherwise loved it.

@amWhy Have you seen this bit of delightful nonsense?

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Not until now! :-)

@Xander I found a few scenes from The Frisco Kid. I was hoping to find the scene where he (Gene Wilder, the Rabbi) leads other Native Americans in a Jewish dance around their campfire! (After smoking some substance!)

Xander Henderson

@amWhy Heh.

The Frisco Kid - "how his people dance"

►

amWhy

18:16

@XanderHenderson How'd you find that! You made my day!

sai-kartik

@quid i'm prepared for the worst...

amWhy

@sai-kartik Hah! You've got some time yet, to get to bed! :-)

sai-kartik

@amWhy true.. but i think if i can handle the toughest exam, i can handle the toughest "?"

amWhy

@sai-kartik Ahhh, don't bet on that: I can be pretty tough!! :-)

sai-kartik

@amWhy since that's coming from a professor, i'd better accept it....

amWhy

18:24

@sai-kartik Don't worry. I've got more of a bark, than a bite! But, you know what @quid says! :-)

Xander Henderson

@amWhy In the most politically incorrect way---I searched "Frisco Kid Indian dance".

Remember, the movie is from another time (before we learned the phrase "Native American").

Of course, I'm old enough that I will typically say "American Indian" if I don't stop and think for a minute.

sai-kartik

@amWhy was going to relax but re-read what @quid had to say...

amWhy

@XanderHenderson I simply searched for The Frisco Kid Movie clips. No problem, it got results.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy :)

My father was teaching a class on race, culture, and ethnicity last year, on the edge of the Navajo Reservation. He was trying to get his students to understand what it meant to be a minority, and asked the students for examples of minority cultures in their community.

One of the Hopi kids said "The Indians are a minority in our community."

amWhy

@XanderHenderson The movie was likely my first encounter ever with Harrison Ford. Though he had been acting prior to the movie, his career skyrocketed later.

Xander Henderson

18:27

My father is like "Uh... your community is 70% Hopi... that isn't a minority."

The response was "No... the hotel owners are from India."

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Indeed.

Xander Henderson

"There's only three of them!"

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Oh my gosh!

Xander Henderson

Of course, the confusion is compounded by the fact that "Indian" is still a common endonym in indigenous communities, though it is not really acceptable as an exonym.

amWhy

The students would have had a valid response if your father asked for an example of minority cultures in the US. But minorities are relative to the the community in which they find themselves, as well.

Xander Henderson

18:31

No, the student actually hit the nail on the head. There is a very small Indian community on the Third Mesa.

If by "Indian" you mean south Asian, and not American.

quid

@amWhy I bet that's just a limitation of the medium here. ;-)

sai-kartik

i just performed a feat no human would have dared to do by pressing enter after typing this message

braces for impact

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Ahh, yes, I've run into that issue with my brother. When I use "indian" I am referring to nationals or immigrants from India. My brother still thinks in terms of "Cowboys and Indians."

Xander Henderson

@amWhy I'm not quite that old school, but I was raised by a cultural anthropologist who did his work on the Navajo Indian Reservation.

In my experience, most indigenous folk are happy to refer to themselves as Indians, though a significant percentage will bristle at being called Indians by outsiders (again, endonym vs exonym).

Thus there is significant potential for confusion when talking to someone of indigenous descent.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Cool! I did about seven book reports on native american authors, and a research paper on native american tribes in WI, and was outspoken about the rights of native americans. When I was 14, I wanted to run away to a reservation!!

@XanderHenderson Yes, I understand.

Xander Henderson

18:35

@amWhy Ah. Sorry to mansplain, then.

sai-kartik

no longer sees need to hide in the air raid shelter

amWhy

@XanderHenderson No worries, I was just agreeing. That's true in a lot of minority cultures. It's one think, e.g., for a black rapper to refer to another black as a nigger, but it's a whole different ball game for a police officer to call a black citizen a nigger. (As a disclaimer to potential flags for mods, I am speaking only about endonyms vs. exonyms, and exemplifying it. I do not use that language to address anyone.)

Arjun

@sai-kartik, now the answer key is out, ab pata chala kitne haha hu😔

Xander Henderson

@amWhy Indeed.

sai-kartik

@Arjun all the best bro 👍

Xander Henderson

18:38

Anywho, I should probably go attempt to be productive. I've got a paper to finish, and have to get my s**t together to start teaching in a couple of weeks.

sai-kartik

@Arjun send the paper also please

@XanderHenderson Congratulations Professor X!!🥳🎉

Xander Henderson

@sai-kartik I'm not a professor.

This is a summer lecturing position which I was assigned months ago.

Arjun

@sai-kartik , give me 5 min

sai-kartik

@XanderHenderson ohhh.. i see

@Arjun sure

Arjun

Got them?

amWhy

18:43

@XanderHenderson Wishing you productivity!

sai-kartik

@Arjun yep

@Arjun looks like partial marks are gonna save you

Arjun

@sai-kartik ,I have done mistakes like π/6+π/2=π/3

😓😓

sai-kartik

@Arjun damn...

Arjun

Please start offline, or this happens

sai-kartik

it's fine youll learn in due time that its perfectly normal

Arjun

18:48

@sai-kartik , learn addition?🤣🤣

sai-kartik

@Arjun i meant making mistakes like these is perfectly normal xD

also honestly speaking, physics paper was a joke to me..

$$\int_0^1 2x dx$$ ?

seriously?

Arjun

Ha ha

See the chem paper 2

Without practice, it was hard

sai-kartik

hmm ok will check it out

its just very calculative..

managable..

Arjun

Hmm

sai-kartik

but yeah, without practice it would ave been hard

Arjun

18:53

Last question papers 2

See that please

What's the answer

sai-kartik

jai mata di kiya?

Arjun

Nahi

Kaya aaya tuhmara?

sai-kartik

big mistake 🙄

i would guess 2

what's the answer given?

option b, that is

anyway there was no negative for this question. you should have guessed...

Arjun

A

Is guven

sai-kartik

dammit

so close

Arjun

19:00

My answer is b, maybe 2-√3, and something

sai-kartik

if 2-sqrt(3) then the other is obviously 2+sqrt(3)

Arjun

Ha

The problem is

sai-kartik

@Arjun there is no question xD

Arjun

If we take, 2 common and cancel

Then something else happens

sai-kartik

wait that's illegal

Arjun

19:03

Yeah

Btw how?

sai-kartik

first off all no question only

Arjun

Origin form me bad me le aayenge

@sai-kartik , sorry?

sai-kartik

ohh waitttt

my bad

Arjun

?

sai-kartik

sorry got confused.

Arjun

19:09

Come in other room

amWhy

19:44

@quid As you know, I do a lot of reviewing. Since the return of the reason to close as lacking context and details, there are still some persistent users of the reason "needs details or clarity", instead, for questions much previously closed as lacking context and other details. When I review close votes, there is on most posts, a split vote between "needs context" and "needs details and clarity". I prefer the distinction between "needs context or other details" and "needs clairity".

The overlap in "needs details", I suspect, is confusing to users. And the "needs details and clarity requires only one click, where as most often, the better reason requires two clicks to select.

Any chance we can have a meta post helping to better differentiate these close reasons? Also, the "needs more focus" close reason describes only scenarios in which more than one question is being asked. It no longer describes for the asker, the scenario in which the question is "too broad": meaning, there is no one correct answer to be found, or the question is too broad that to permit an appropriate answer within the guidelines of Math.se. There are, in other words, holes, and overlaps.

"holes": meaning no appropriate explanation for closure for too broad of questions, and overlap between the two reasons citing the need for details.

@quid ^^^^ Nothing urgent.

@sai-kartik It's past the "two hour promise of bedtime"!! >:-[

@sai-kartik I'm holding you to this! >:-[

Xander Henderson

20:47

@amWhy This may be relevant.

Not quite the same problem, but related.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Yes, I remember the post, Thanks for steering me there again.

@XanderHenderson Maybe we can get a moderator to answer there too.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy I'm honestly rather disappointed at the lack of discussion and feedback the question got. Personally, I think it is quite obvious that there is an issue with the close reasons (there are certain cases which just aren't covered at all, and some seeming redundancies which appear to cause confusion). But I guess there aren't many who agree with me...

:\

amWhy

@XanderHenderson I agree, whole-heartedly!!

@XanderHenderson And trust me, I agree with you!

quid

22:03

@amWhy we could have more community specific reasons. As a preparation to those one can also use "other", that is, give the reason you want to give via "other"

amWhy

Sure, @quid. I can see a custom close reason in "other" working for "too broad", because the current "needs focus" describes only the scenario of a user asking too many questions. But it doesn't address the overlap of "needs details or clarity" vs. the community specific reason of "lacks context and details". Every day I see close vote suggestion in the review queue with votes on each of those two reasons. I think the community could be more consistent, if we focused on the "needs clarity"

...(aka) "this question is unclear", and in the community specific reasons, kept "needs context and details."

Xander Henderson

@quid The problem I have with this is that there are a large number of vocal users who will object to custom close reasons because they don't align with the defaults. For example, I have gotten pushback in the past for suggesting that a question be closed because it is "too local" (this is a typical response that I have to homework exercises with long, confused "attempts").

But it also takes a lot more time to write a custom reason.

amWhy

There are posts that include too many details, @quid, but remain unclear. We've seen a user frequently posting on meta in response to this close reason, who frantically edits posts to include even more detail, when the source of the problem is the lack of clarity.

quid

@XanderHenderson yes, certainly, but one could have a canned text somewhere and copy-paste. One could also automate that. Likely there even is a script somewhere.

@amWhy that there was a back and forth is likely responsible for this. I'll see what there frequencies are.

amWhy

@quid I very much appreciate the return of the option, in site specific reasons, to select "lacks context and details". I'd like the return of a separate reason "This question is unclear". Lumping the need for clarity along with the need for details provides little information to the asker of a question closed as "lacks details and clarity". Some question have too much detail that renders them unclear. Others might be clear, but lack details (context).

@quid But I understand that close reasons are perpetually a work in progress on SE, and with respect to site specific reasons, will likely be works in progress. So I don't mean to complain, so much as to give feedback.

quid

22:22

The by far most frequently used reason is "lacks context"

the next is "needs details or clarity"

Everything else is very niche.

(Excluding "dupe" here. )

amWhy

@quid That's good to hear. That it's had "reuptake" since its absence.

quid

@amWhy yes and it seems the trend continues.

amWhy

@quid I've more or less tried to "lead by example" in my close reasons. And likely others have too.

quid

@amWhy I think this is what mostly works.

Practically speaking what could make sense is to split "lacks context" to be more expressive.

Or, to promote the use of other reasons for some particular concern.

amWhy

@quid Yes, thanks for reminding me, but SE close reasons are also always changing.

quid

22:33

@amWhy just to be sure that we are not talking past each other, we cannot change the reasons (except for the community specific ones).

Did you accidentally edit rather than add a comment?

amWhy

OOps, @quid, I was in progress of writing a different comment when I say your last comment, and I deleted my comment in progress to answer your last comment, but ironically, my comment answering your comment appears before your comment.

@quid Oh, no, actually, @quid, I'm clairvoyant and read your mind before you spoke! ;D

quid

Indeed SE reasons sometimes change, but rather rarely and we have little influence on how exactly they change. I think it is best to assume them as a given for any discussion about how votes should be used.

What we could do is push locally for the reason being only used for the clarity part.

2

amWhy

@quid I knew your were going to say exactly that! ;D I understand, but I think SE close reasons are mostly tailored to SO, than to the rest of the network. But I understand that at any given time, we must work within the framework we must operate in.

@quid I'd be a huge support of that!

quid

@amWhy it could likely make sense to have a meta post to discuss when to use which one of the two.

The other thing is that personally I do not give that much relevance to the particular reason. It should be somewhat informative for those that come across it.

To be consistent is not that relevant.

amWhy

Okay, @quid. As far as a meta post, please see Xander's meta post earlier this month. Maybe we need to add a few custom messages which can emphasize the need for clarity, or, for example, to address questions that are too broad (but do not include many separate questions).

...with the custom messages ideal to accompany "needs details or clarity", or a custom close reason of "too broad".

Unfortunately, @quid. The most helpful participation from users seems to decline when the amount of clicks, or typing custom close reasons, let alone clicking on meta's custom comments, copy and paste them into a post, is seen as "too burdensome" to users.

quid

22:55

@amWhy I think it would make sense to track what actually comes up, a way to do that would be to start closing with "other" with a canned comment.

I know Xander's post, but it seems it did not get much traction.

amWhy

@quid True.

quid

If there is support for some reason or other, it would be implemented.

The most natural source of such recommendations are those that close a lot.

What I would like to avoid is to have long discussions about things that won't get used much anyway.

In practical terms "personal advice" is pretty useless by now. It was likely helpful to convey that this is off-topic though.

amWhy

@quid I think the only issue is that is was asked by a user familiar with the now-site-specific close reason "lacks context and other details". It has been absent as a close reason for a lengthy period of time, and some current closers came into "maturity" as closers when that reason did not exist. I think the question about "needs details or clarity" vs. "lacks context and other details" might be more relevant to address now.

quid

I agree that this could be relevant post to have.

amWhy

@quid I agree. But it still comes in handy when the need arises. But assuming it is better to have a limited menu of close reasons, including the menu under site-specific close reasons, I concur.

Yikes, @quid. We're in the middle of a long thunderstorm here in SE Wisconsin. At 3:00 pm (three hours ago), the sky became so dark that it looked like 7pm. Still is very dark. I only mention this because I may need to take a teeny break to comfort my kitty, given the thunder! :-)

quid

23:10

@amWhy sure. Take good care of Shay (hope I did recall that correctly)

amWhy

@quid Yes you did! He's not terrified in storms ... just needs my intentionally "upbeat" voice, and distraction (meaning play!) He's an expert "batter" and "catcher", and even "fetcher"! (I sometimes call him my little puppy!)

amWhy

23:27

@quid Well we had "batting practice", and "catching practice", and "fetching practice"; even a little hockey in the bathtub! You really should consider adopting a cat! One will bring you daily laughs, without too much work involved.

quid

@amWhy I had many pets as a child.

amWhy

@quid We had a cat for awhile, but I developed severe allergies at a young age. I'm most allergic to cats (go figure), but in my twenties, I had a dog, then a cat. I found that long-term exposure to a pet helped my immune system to tolerate that pet, (along with antihistamines!) But the pets have always been worth the trouble.

But my five-year-old hopes to be a veterinarian were dashed!

@quid What pets did you have, growing up?

quid

@amWhy cats, dogs, guinea pigs, canary birds, turtles, fish (if those count as birds), rabbits, maybe something else that I forgot

amWhy

23:43

@quid Wow! You need to get a pet. (We had tropical fish, too, but the aquarium was in the kitchen/dining area, and I had to switch seats at the dinner table with my brother so my back would be to them, while eating, because seeing the fish, while eating, made me sick to my stomach! My brother still teases me about that.

@quid No, fish don't count as birds! (I suspect you meant fish (if those count as pets))! :-)

quid

@amWhy as usual you read my mind. :-)

amWhy

@quid :-)

T_01

hi, could anyone of you help me with multidimensional calculus? :(

amWhy

@quid I see the final four in the Chessable Masters Tournament. But I'm finding it difficult to find details of the quarterfinals.

@T_01 Try asking in Mathematics chat, or Calculus and Analysis chatroom

T_01

well there is nobody - this is why i asked here ^^ but well, you are right, that would be the correct place

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$Mathematics$ whatever, quid