whatever, quid - 2020-06-19

amWhy

17:54

@quid So instead of 2 we should say 2i? Make a simple natural number a complex number? ;D

Just joking, @quid. I saw you recently popped in to math.se!

Reminded me of PSQ's titled "Complex algebra problem", with question field: "How to solve for $2x = 4$?"

Never mind, @quid.

$$\Huge{\color{blue}{\text{T G I F to all!}}}$$

quid

@amWhy maybe (1+1) i^4

amWhy

@quid Oh, I get it! :P

quid

Actually there is a deleted comment thread on meta.math.se where I excelled in that.

amWhy

18:09

I have almost 4 x 50 "responses" in my profile notifying me of "CommonMark migration", @quid. ?? I was going to ask on meta, but I know there was a meta (Grand Meta post) about switching to CommonMark. Can you fill me in? I can't find that Grand Meta of all meta's post anymore.

quid

Asaf too by the way. But then some moderator came along and deleted it all. So, we decided to ascend to power ourselves to take revenge.

amWhy

@quid Hah!

quid

True story. Except for the last bit. Maybe. :-)

amWhy

@quid Well, isn't it true? You and Asaf are now mods, but alas, may have not taken revenge!

quid

@amWhy yes also it was maybe not our main motivation to be able to spam in comments with impunity. ;-)

amWhy

18:12

(@quid In mid July, when I can return to meta.se, I'm going to propose a name change GMoaM's: Grand Meta of all Meta's.)

quid

460

Q: We're switching to CommonMark

I’m Ham and I’m a developer on the Teams team here at Stack Overflow. Over the past few months, I’ve been heads down working on the way we turn Markdown into HTML when writing and editing posts across the network. I’d love to share what I’ve come up with. In a nutshell: We're planning to use Comm...

amWhy

@quid Ah, I get it. I'll have to ask about this motivation in the new moderator election!! :P

quid

re common mark. I assume they auto-edited some things and you got notes about that.

I did not notice any though.

Out of curiosity could you link a post?

amWhy

@quid Ah thanks. I haven't received any notes. I just clicked on my "responses" tab in my "activity tab" of my profile. Sure, I can link a post.

42

A: How to effectively study math?

This advice from a teacher I had, long, long ago has stuck with me all along. "There are three ways to react to any [troubling] situation: You can get frustrated... ARGH!!! You can feel intimidated... :-( or... You can be INSPIRED! In other words, try to catch yourself when you're feeling ...

@quid Or how about this link

quid

@amWhy ah, I looked elsewhere. I actually have some there too. Not 50 but that's normal given how measly my account is compared to yours.

amWhy

18:20

I was actually looking for a response to a comment a few weeks back, and that's the only reason I came across all these migrations, @quid.

@quid Measly, hardly!

@quid Anyway, it might be worth preparing for some meta.math.se inquiries about this.

quid

@amWhy yes could happen indeed. Thanks for the heads-up

amWhy

@quid So I take it, CommonMark will change markup, but not affect MathJax?

Yikes, I'd hate to be the folks charged with migrating "old markup" with current CommonMark markup!

quid

@amWhy yes it's not about MathJax but the other formatting. But I think mostly it should not change much.

@amWhy not my cup of tea either. But I think there people that like doing that and would dislike doing what I do all day.

amWhy

@quid And I unintentionally exaggerated the number of responses. The responses seem to be listed in pages of 25 posts, hence I think I had about 90 migrations.

@quid Well, diversity in the sorts of "tea" one prefers is probably a good thing, for the reasons you list!

Xander Henderson

18:37

@amWhy Is this the one?:

94

A: We're switching to CommonMark

Migration Schedule Here's an overview of the sites we're going to migrate, when we're planning to run the migration and the current status of that site. I'll keep it updated as we go. We might run into some issues along the way, so please understand that predicting an exact timeline is hard and w...

Oh, shoot. I'm late to the party.

Note to self: read to the end of the thread before saying anything. :\

amWhy

@quid @XanderHenderson Yup! Thanks, it's okay to duplicate, better for me to hear twice, than not hear at all!!

Xander Henderson

If I said it again in this place, but out loud, could you hear here?

quid

See you, I'll be back later.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Here, here! (Or is it, Hear, hear!)

@quid c u 2, l8ter.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy The 00s called. They want their 1337 5p33k back. :P

amWhy

18:46

@XanderHenderson I must be ready for Friday, since when I saw 5p, I was like "What? I want a 6 pack"!

Kind of a Rordach test, of sorts!

Xander Henderson

19:10

@amWhy Ha!

amWhy

19:39

@quid Can bounties be offered on meta? Because I'd like some fresh air, to hear about users' positive, perception changing experiences for once, and not just rants and complaints. I'd be willing to award 500 real-time rep to the most uplifting response. I'm tired of "why was my q/a downvoted?? deleted?? Someone did me wrong (but in fact was right?), "can I get around the clearly explained rules by x-ing. ?? blah, blah... Is it possible to offer a real-time-actual rep bounty on meta.math.se?

quid

@amWhy no, not on per site metas, only on meta.se

amWhy

@quid Urgh. I'd just like to see more positive observations on meta, to help offset the negative. I know inherently, users are more likely to report negative experiences on meta. But I wish we'd get an occasional positive report.

Wouldn't it be great, instead of so many: "See [this post]. It is horrible because of x, y, z, and user Adolf abused blah blah..." to see an occasional: "I just had to take a moment from my busy schedule to say how impressed I was that userA, B, C were all so helpful. I was surprised because the responses to my first question left me feeling (down in the dumps). So I want to thank those users who take the time to foo, and blah, blah. How can we encourage more users to fee, fie, foe!

That's just an example. Perhaps human nature makes us more inclined to complain than to praise? I don't know, but I get tired of seeing complainers with little case getting upvotes on meta.

@quid Mind you, not all complainers on meta get uptake, but enough of them do, which encourages everyone with an axe to grind to complain about their personal insults.

Of course, please understand I am not complaining about you, @quid. Or any mod. Just the way meta seems to be designed, or the way humans are wired, or both. I don't mean to imply there is anything you or other mods can do to change this, either.

Maybe I'll just have to make a monthly "positive post" on meta, focusing on "acts of kindness, acts of excellence, while of course asking a question like, "wouldn't it be great to see more of this? "

quid

20:04

@amWhy do you know this chat room

$Mathematics$ In praise of Math.SE site and its users

achievements, milestones, interesting statistics

amWhy

@quid Yes, I do. But I think we need such accomplishments being more routinely visible, e.g., on meta.math.se. and I'm not just talking about rep milestones, or such, I'd like to see excellence gaining more attention: patience, stamina, sportsmanship, and such. Tell me if I'm wrong, but these qualities often go unnoticed.

While at the same time, complaints on meta often focus on the lack of these qualities. All the more reason to showcase them when they occur.

Sorry, @quid. I was just really put off by this meta post, and I think WillJagy hit the nail on the head.

quid

@amWhy I agree that they often go unnoticed. But it can be hard to highlight them in a way that goes over well. That is to say, it could be a nice idea to try, but having in mind that it might not work out as planned.

amWhy

And somewhat put off, less so, by this meta post. I understand the latter far better than the former.

quid

I'll need to eat something now.

amWhy

@quid Yes, I understand. It just seems that on our site, one is supposed to behave well, without credit, but even if one behaves well, and others don't know that, or they suspect otherwise, that gets all the attention. And I'm sick of it.

@quid No problem, @quid. Of course, be sure to eat! :-)

Please understand @quid, I am not complaining about you or other mods. But please do eat well, and get the sleep you need to tonight. I appreciate your input, as always.

Arjun Rana

20:24

theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/19/…

Regarding the bus in 'Into the wild'

It's Friday in America, right?

amWhy

@ArjunRana Wow! Given the rescue of five this year, and the death of at least two others in the bus, perhaps its removal is a good thing?

Arjun Rana

@amWhy , umm yes and no, it had some historical significance. I hope they put it up somewhere more accessible

amWhy

@ArjunRana Yes, that's right, between 1:26 p.m and 4:36 p.m (West coast to east coast time zones.)

Arjun Rana

And safe

amWhy

@ArjunRana I suspect it will land in some museum of some sort. Maybe even a museum or shrine in Alaska.

Arjun Rana

20:28

@amWhy , museum, it's a phony word

Again went through Catcher in the rye

amWhy

@ArjunRana I didn't know what other word to use. Hence I thought of "shrine"... monument, tribute. But in a "safe" location.

Arjun Rana

@amWhy , I get it, it was a joke:-)

Do u use a phone for MSE?

Or laptop?

amWhy

@ArjunRana :P Let me know when you read "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas"!

Arjun Rana

@amWhy , I read it, earlier

Maybe yesterday

amWhy

@ArjunRana Ahh, did I miss your comments on it? Sorry if I did! :(

Arjun Rana

20:33

@amWhy , no you didn't, we discussed it😅

Lack of sleep?

Xander Henderson

@ArjunRana According to American law, it actually does not have historical significance. :)

amWhy

@ArjunRana Yes, that's likely it. I also raised the question to a class of cross-disciplinary students for a summer course: math majors and lit majors!!

Xander Henderson

At best, it would be protected by the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966, but it is not old enough to fall under the purview of that bit of legislation.

Arjun Rana

@XanderHenderson ,I heard the American constitution has just 7 articles, being the shortest in the world

Xander Henderson

I said nothing about the constitution...

Arjun Rana

20:37

I believe laws are embeded in constitution?

Xander Henderson

@ArjunRana No.

The constitution is an outline which explains how the government functions.

There are man, many other laws which have been implemented by congress since the passage of the Constitution.

Arjun Rana

@XanderHenderson that explains the B+ I got in political science

Looks like American system is quite different from indian

amWhy

@XanderHenderson There are woman, many other laws which have been implemented by congress since the passage of the Constitution. :P (All due to a typo)

quid

@amWhy yes it is a concern. Similar things were also discussed on SO in some detail. There is a somewhat famous answer about that. I'll try to find it.

Xander Henderson

In any event, in order for a site or structure to be eligible for protection under the historic preservation act, it would need to be (a) associated with an important event which has broadly influenced cultural patterns, (b) associated to an important person, (c) an exemplar of some particular style or trend, or (d) likely to yield information about history or prehistory (e.g. following archaeological investigation).

@amWhy Sorry, that was supposed to say "many".

as in "many, many". :)

Arjun Rana

20:42

@XanderHenderson , do u have a PhD in this too?

amWhy

@XanderHenderson I know that, I was just teasing you :P

quid

That's the answer, but the entire thread might be relevant

553

A: Why is Stack Overflow so negative of late?

Why is Stack Overflow so negative of late? I hate to pile on, but I couldn't resist summarizing the problem. And I apologize ahead of time for any potentially offensive language that I might use. Basically there are 4 camps of users on Stack Overflow: The "caretakers" who want to keep the...

Xander Henderson

@ArjunRana No, but I was an anthropology major for most of undergraduate career (focussing on archaeology), and I've worked for several government land management agencies as an archaeologist in the past.

Arjun Rana

@XanderHenderson , so you have knowledge about archeology too?, Man!🙏

Xander Henderson

I used to have a pretty ready knowledge of the relevant legislation. Now, I have to get help from Google (I mean, I almost asserted that the NHPA was passed in 1967, not 1966! Imagine that!).

Arjun Rana

20:46

@XanderHenderson, what about cricket, boxing ....?

Any intrest?

amWhy

@quid I think I've heard something similar... but we can't say "help vampires" or "repwhores" anymore! But since we are talking about the post you link, most "repwhores" are already at 4: "they didn't give a sht.", likewise most help vampires. The main ones who continue to "give a sht* are the caretakers. I get the gist of the post, but most of the complaints on meta come from non-caretakers.

Xander Henderson

@ArjunRana Neither cricket (that terrible imperial British sport which was so improved by the introduction of baseball) nor pugilism hold much interest.

But I did fence competitively at one point in my life.

Arjun Rana

@XanderHenderson , ah I see

Time for bed, good night guys(and gals:-)

amWhy

@ArjunRana G'night!

quid

@amWhy I don't particularly like the words to be honest. (That's a general observation not a complaint that you brought them up.) For different reasons.

amWhy

20:54

@quid No, I understand, but the terms help capture, not for those termed, but those who term them, how they are often viewed. I guess, for the apathetic, they either don't exist, or they're apathetic with sympathies to one of the three other categories. My point is not what each category is called, but typically, "caretakers" get little uptake on meta, and that is a shame. The two groups dominating meta are the "helpless" and the "rep hunters" who, for different reasons come to meta...

...because they feel slighted, and they slant the language in a manner that is often not consistent with their motivation. In order to influence other users in their favor. When is the last post you remember from a caretaker, @quid?

quid

@amWhy do you mean question? Posts there are many.

amWhy

@quid Yes, I meant question. Now we have supporters of the "helpless" who neither seek rep, nor are caretakers of the site, on meta. I could name the most prominent, but you'd not want me to.

quid

@amWhy I think most questions are by new-ish users. There are generally not many questions by say 10k+ users.

It is interesting that you see it they way that you see it. But I think others see it differently.

Namely that meta is dominated by the 'tyrannic' "caretackers" that extend their reign to meta and try to shut down dissent.

amWhy

@quid I do not think you yet see it the way I, and other "care-takers" see it.

@quid And now you are mouthing the words of one particular user, and their stand-by supporter, both who reflect on meta what you claim for more than I or other caretakers get a chance to state.

quid

@amWhy that's much more widespread.

It's not that I agree with it but the sentiment is much broader.

I think there is a lot of perception bias going on in various ways.

amWhy

21:06

You are echoing the arguments of just two users, @quid, whom I could name. Well, meta represents their voices far more than the supposed "tyrranic" voices. So their claim is upside down. And they are allowed to, and protected to do so, to the extent that I am forbidden from naming the two. Yet they remain free to demonize me, name me, wherever and whenever they want. What's up with that!

Xander Henderson

@ArjunRana night

quid

@amWhy now I am not. But I am not having this debate now.

amWhy

@quid No surprise here, @quid.

quid

@amWhy maybe if you want the site to be more positive it could also make sense to cut down on such things.

Xander Henderson

@quid This. There is a clear divide in the community about what Math SE should be. There are aa fair number of people who see no problem with it becoming a homework mill or a Quora-style "help one user at a time" kind of place.

I strongly, strongly disagree with these folk, but I can see how they might think of "janitors" or "gardeners" or "care-takers" as tyrants.

amWhy

21:10

@quid I'm not raising this on meta, now, am I?? But, I am not having this debate now, just like you claimed you didn't want this dabate, but debated nonetheless.

Don't try to shut me down, just so you can make another dig, @quid. Until you demand all parties to play fair on meta, you're allowing the negativity on meta to continue. Make sure to eat, @quid.

quid

@amWhy that does not alter the spirit of the exchange.

You are unhappy about something so you articulate it. That's alright. But others do that too. And that's what we see.

amWhy

@quid Nor does it alter the spirit of your exchange, which has hardly been positive.

"I'm not having this debate now." You enable others' abuse of me. Yet you forbid me from identifying others who abuse me. So it is you who insults me.

quid

@amWhy yes but then you insulted me.

amWhy

@quid As you insulted me, when you claimed "I'm not having this debate now." Go figure. Don't expect me to remain meek and recalcitrant when you proceed to insult me, @quid. Don't like me countering? Then don't insult me in the first place.

quid

@amWhy how is that an insult?

It is not even about you.

amWhy

21:20

@quid How is that an insult?

quid

@amWhy "no surprise there" was I assume intended as snide.

As opposed to "I understand that you do not want to discuss this now because from what you said earlier I infer that you have little time right now"

If you actually meant to say that, then I am sorry I misunderstood.

And appologize for my inappropriate reaction and negative reading of you remark written in a kind spirit.

I will assume it was this that happened and leave reassured.

amWhy

@quid And yet you're still here, trying to get in the last word?? How genuine was your need to leave, if you have to have the last word, ALWAYS? Now, either go eat, or get in you last word. I won't respond in anycase.

@quid And DO NOT EVER PATRONIZE me, again.

quid

@amWhy why are you so angry now?

amWhy

@quid You win. You got in your last word. Now go eat or do whatever you think you need to leave for.

QUID WINS AGAIN!!!

quid

I don't want you to be angry. I actually already ate. I eat quickly. But I have various things I need to finish.

@amWhy PING

But I don't want to leave knowing that you are upset over something that I said.

amWhy

21:29

Finish the various things you need to finish, @quid.

quid

@amWhy PONG

amWhy

@quid lol You made me laugh out loud!! No problems, really. I was just letting off steam.

quid

@amWhy :-)

amWhy

@quid Indeed, :-)

PING-PONG lol. Take care of what you need to take care of @quid. All is good.

Xander Henderson

23:10

@XanderHenderson Seems I was wrong... the bus has been there since 1961, which makes it old enough for protection under the NHPA. Of course, it still has to meet some significance criterion, which I am quite sure it doesn't.

$Mathematics$ In praise of Math.SE site and its users

Transcript for

$Mathematics$ whatever, quid