@5pm I have included a 'resolution' to my original question, I would be interested to read what you have to say about it.

We already have too many questionable quick closures. @5pm: Your argument for the position that ‘Prove that $\sqrt2$ is irrational’ is not a real question is sheer casuistry.

@cardinal: They’re both real questions, and I consider it dishonest to pretend that I don’t know what question is being asked when someone posts ‘Prove that $\sqrt2$ is irrational’. I consider it simply nasty to close the first sort immediately; at the very least the OP should be given an indication of how to improve the question. If a week, say, goes by with no response, and no one is moved to answer the question, then it’s a reasonable candidate for closure.

@cardinal: I fail to see how that roundabout process is better than simply leaving it open in the first place.

@5pm: I have seen counterexamples to that claim. And if an answer is posted, so what? It does no harm (unless the answer is wrong).

@cardinal: I am less concerned about long-term value than about providing answers that help the OP. My only real objection to minimalist questions like ‘Prove that $\sqrt2$ is irrational’ is that they make it damned hard to guess what sort of answer will really be helpful. (A complete answer isn’t necessarily helpful in the long run.)

@5pm I've got a ways to go before I can vote to close :(

@5pm: (1) I don’t share your optimism: I rather suspect that most of those who pay no heed to the comments wouldn’t improve their questions significantly anyway. (2) It’s not my problem if some mathematicians haven’t caught up with today’s reality. Anyone who really wants to cheat on homework can do so very easily. Here, at least, the answers are far more likely to be either hints or competent explanations. And I’ve the impression that the bare-bones answers are often from people who aren’t all that much further along than the OP; if the OP isn’t benefiting, at least they are.

@BrianM.Scott For every thesis there is an antithesis. In this reality we are the arbiters. Your opinion and reputation drive the future of this website. Why not reject today's reality? How much value does the commenting system retain then anyway if the questioner, more often than not, doesn't heed the comments? We've got to give them the benefit of the doubt don't you think? And can you 'quantify' improve? Any improvement in the question is significant, otherwise it's not an improvement now is it? In any case, the kind of Q's that 5pm is talking about aren't real Q's to begin with

@Rustyn: I think that you and those who agree with you don’t give them the benefit of the doubt. I think that many people’s reactions to poorly posed questions is punitive rather than helpful. And I did not say that more often than not the querent doesn’t heed the comments; I said that I suspect that those who fail to heed the comments are unlikely to respond significantly to harsher measures.

@BrianM.Scott +1, for your perspective on how it is punitive, I can see it being discouraging. However-- if they fail to heed the comments then that's either their deliberate disregard or extreme obliviousness to a feature of the website, including the very poignant red notification they receive from a comment. Often they've plenty of time to even attempt an adequate change. Also once closed, they've the possibility of a re-open in exchange for turning their post into a question. If they feel they've been wronged, they've the right to protest and be heard on meta, in chat, or through e-mail.

@Rustyn: Or extreme difficulty turning their thoughts into English; I don’t know how often this is the case, but I’m quite sure that it happens. I also suspect that some simply lose heart when they read the often rather harsh comments on badly posed questions and decide that the game’s not worth the candle. I’ve already given my opinion of the close-reopen runaround. And the kind of question that 5pm is talking about are real questions: only an idiot or someone deliberately trying to do so could fail to understand them as such.

@BrianM.Scott I know where you're coming from because I tutor for a living but those questions aren't their questions, they're somebody else's questions that they've copy/pasted. In that case, we should be answering the creator of the question. If the comments are harsh, then it's not the questioner's fault if they get discouraged and give up their pursuit of an answer--it's the fault of whoever left such a derisive comment on behalf of the community.

@Rustyn: No. They are their questions: the implied question is obviously Can you help me solve this problem? or the like, not whatever the specific mathematical problem is. // I didn’t say that it was their fault that they were discouraged; I was pointing out that failure to respond does not necessarily imply that they weren’t really interested in the kind of help that we’d prefer to offer. (And it doesn’t take a truly derisive comment to discourage some people: the usual barrage of What have you tried?, Learn LaTeX, Show your work, etc. can be awfully blunt at times.)

@BrianM.Scott "I also suspect that some simply lose heart when they read the often rather harsh comments on badly posed questions and decide that the game’s not worth the candle." ---- I'm merely proposing that the student who loses heart by the severity of the comments is not at fault for losing heart. The community is at fault for providing for an unwelcoming environment.

I agree, but that has nothing to do with the point that I was making.

And I’m of the opinion that the people who complain most about these questions are in many cases among those who contribute to a less welcoming environment.

I really hope that I'm doing my part to make stackexchange a welcoming environment. If the community would have me leave for my ideals or principles, I would gladly leave in favor of a more harmonious stackexchange. I really do apologize and hope that everyone feels that I'm not trying to cause such a consternation.

Not to worry: I don’t have any recollection of your being one of the people whom I had in mind with that comment.

I'm still inclined to propose an embellishment to the about section, (Even though I feel it will be in vain).

The reason being: I believe it could have a greater tutorial potential if the community saw fit to provide this option to students.

As in if students identified stackexchange with tutoring, as well as answers.

Having both options would be a good compromise.

@BrianM.Scott

You mean something like a tutoring tag, for someone who really does want hints and, if necessary, follow-up? I’ve no objection in principle; I usually try to answer the lower-level questions that way, unless I think that the OP is so badly lost that a complete explanation of the kind that I’d give one-on-one in a tutoring centre would be more useful at that point.

@BrianM.Scott Yes, exactly. Tara B. asked that I start such a proposal, if you hadn't already seen.

I hadn’t seen that; I’ll take a closer look later and probably have something to say. (Right now I’m in a discussion with someone about his question.)

@BrianM.Scott Which question? mine? Hmmmf. Well I hope good listening is occurring.

A question on nets and compactness.

oh "his question" i read "this question"--I can't read today

@RustynYazdanpour I’m having that kind of day myself.

@BrianM.Scott As I thought, the excitement about the proposal is indeed spreading like wildfire.... I don't even know why I bother.

Every drop of water wears away a little more rock? :-)

@BrianM.Scott That doesn't look to bad.

@RustynYazdanpour Which? The comment chain that I mentioned?

yeah

too*

@BrianM.Scott Tutoring won't always be perfect but it's a step in a new direction for the site. Every new beginning has an associated risk.

@RustynYazdanpour I certainly have no problem with the idea: I’ve tried to use the site to tutor just about as long as I’ve been active on it.