Discussion on question by new_user: spelling of "gross"

Feeds

15:36

0

I am puzzled by the spelling of "gross". I always heard it pronounced as a diphthong, and my dictionaries confirm this. Now my English teachers always taught me that while a repeated consonant in spelling can indicate several things (that the preceding vowel is short, or in a preterite form that ...

Lambie

Do you mean pronounce? There is only one spelling of the word, and it is: g-r-o-s-s. There is only one vowel in it and there is no diphthong: two adjacent vowel sounds. Maybe some young people say: gro-oss. But that's only in slangy speech. They double it.

Anonymous

@Lambie I think the OP is asking about the spelling-to-sound correspondence between ‹gross› and /ɡrəʊs/ (BrE) or /ɡroʊs/ (AmE), in particular about the relationship between the double ‹ss› and the preceding diphthong spelled ‹o›, transcribed variously as /əʊ/ and /oʊ/. A diphthong, by the way, is a single vowel sound (segment), one which changes in quality over time from one articulatory target to another.

new_user

@snailboat Absolutely, that's what I'm asking for

Lambie

There is no diphthong in gross. I said there is no diphthong and I defined it. Perhaps you didn't see it? Why complicate this with AmE and BrE? Is that even in the question?? I do not want to argue but please do me the kindness of reading what I say more carefully.

Anonymous

@Lambie If you simply consult a dictionary you will find you are incorrect. My transcriptions above are from John Wells' Longman Pronunciation Dictionary. Please try to avoid placing misinformation in the comments section; it will be removed.

new_user

15:36

@Lambie You are wrong, that's not just "slangy speech" or "doubling". The diphthong is the pronunciation given in every dictionary I know. I challenge you to quote one English dictionary that does not do that

Lambie

Diphthongs use two vowel sounds in one syllable to make a speech sound.[3] /ɡrəʊs/ and /ɡroʊs/ are not diphthongs, really. They are an IPA phonetic rendition of the o sound in gross in AmE and BrE. It is a single sound. I challenge you to pronounce it as "two adjacent sounds".

new_user

@Lambie I don't have the time right now, but when I have the time I'll rewrite my question so as to avoid this kind of misunderstanding. Thx for your contribution

Lambie

If you look up: əʊ and oʊ are formally called diphthongs, but it is pronounced as one. Not like: an owl. That's all.

here are the pronounciations: dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/gross for both.

Anonymous

Just for reference, from A Course in Phonetics, 6th ed. (p.90):

Anonymous

Anonymous

15:41

@Lambie I can't move additional comments to chat, so I'll just reproduce your latest comment here:

Anonymous

> There is only one spelling for gross. – Lambie 1 min ago

Anonymous

If you read the question carefully, you'll notice the OP does not believe there is more than one spelling for gross.

Anonymous

While it's true there's only one spelling, that's not what the question asks about, so that comment won't help the question get answered.

Lambie

Regardless, the OP's question is OFF and MISLEADING. And my comment clarifies it. There is only one SPELLING for gross. ONE SPELLING. And the sound of the o in gross is given in IPA as: oʊ (AmE) and əʊ (BrE). The answer is: there is only one spelling. That's the answer.

Anonymous

The question doesn't ask whether there are other ways to spell the word, so I'm not sure how that could be the answer.

Anonymous

15:44

They already know there's only one spelling.

Anonymous

Using caps lock and repeating yourself doesn't make your comment any more relevant to the question.

Lambie

What are you saying?? The OP asks very clearly about the spelling? Why are you removing my question that asks that he clarify that? Isn't that a rule?? Comments are supposed to clarify the questions.

They clearly do not know about the spelling. The OP needs to clarify what they meant and my comment now which you also erased was aimed at that.

Anonymous

They already confirmed for us what the question was about:

Anonymous

11 mins ago, by new_user

@snailboat Absolutely, that's what I'm asking for

Lambie

Absolutely what?? I can see nothing now that you moved the whole thing.

Anonymous

15:49

You can scroll up and see it, or click the link to see it in context. But to make things easier, I'll quote the comment new_user was responding to:

Lambie

What does the absolutely go with?? It's no longer there neither is the word absolutely.

Anonymous

13 mins ago, by snailboat

@Lambie I think the OP is asking about the spelling-to-sound correspondence between ‹gross› and /ɡrəʊs/ (BrE) or /ɡroʊs/ (AmE), in particular about the relationship between the double ‹ss› and the preceding diphthong spelled ‹o›, transcribed variously as /əʊ/ and /oʊ/. A diphthong, by the way, is a single vowel sound (segment), one which changes in quality over time from one articulatory target to another.

Anonymous

To put it another way: the OP is learning rules to predict pronunciation from spelling (spelling-to-sound correspondence rules). When they apply these rules to the spelling of gross, they come up with a pronunciation that is different from the pronunciation listed for the word in dictionaries. The spelling and pronunciation don't seem to correspond in the way the OP was taught.

Anonymous

That is what they're asking about.

Anonymous

They aren't confused about how the word is spelled.

Lambie

15:53

dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/gross I never use that word correspondence like that. I describe it differently. But, I think you should have left up my question, which according to forum rules, are allowed for purposes of clarification. Apparently, you don't t hink so. Now, there is no clarification at all.

Anonymous

Anyone can click the chat link and see the discussion here.

Anonymous

Spelling-to-sound correspondence is a standard term.

Anonymous

16:10

For reference, from A Dictionary of Linguistics and Phonetics, 6th ed.:

Anonymous

> diphthong (n.) A term used in the phonetic classification of vowel sounds on the basis of their manner of articulation: it refers to a vowel where there is a single (perceptual) noticeable change in quality during a syllable, as in English beer, time, loud. Related terms are monophthong, where no qualitative change is heard, and triphthong, where two such changes can be heard.

Anonymous

> [...] Diphthongs are transcribed using symbols which represent the extremes of vowel movement between the two positions, as in [aɪ] for the unit in fine.

Anonymous

(p.146)

barbecue

17:57

@Lambie moving a back-and-forth discussion from comments to chat is standard procedure, and the system actually detects such cases and prompts you to do so. It then moves everything automatically.

Transcript for

Discussion on question by new_user: s…