Contractor discussion

Venture2099

22:34

Yo yo

Frank

Hey, @Venture. Thought I'd ask you some questions about being a contractor.

Venture2099

Go for it. Which country?

Frank

Canada

It's one of the next things on my career to do list.

Most of it, for me, is...how do I get started doing it?

Venture2099

What would you like to know? :-).

Frank

Trying to juggle a full time job and freelancing isn't something that seems feasible.

Venture2099

22:35

It depends on your industry and experience

Frank

IT. I make code dance.

Venture2099

So in the UK freelancing is what we refer to people that are looking for a single commission, like an artist or a voice over actor etc.

They do a piece of work for a set rate.

What type of code?

He he dance. Brilliant.

Frank

Mostly anything, really.

Venture2099

Your options are two fold tbh

Frank

My career's been full of Access code, to be honest.

Venture2099

22:38

- Suggest and negotiate a contract with your current company

Frank

But I've been going some stuff with .NET Core.

Venture2099

- Apply for roles through a broker/agency

Frank

Neither of those are very palatable; my company has a bad experience with contracting devs. That's why they hired me, after all.

Venture2099

You can use JobServe or some other large aggregrator and get your LinkedIn up to All Star Level. Rotate your headline every three weeks as it pings recruiters.

Frank

That's one way to do it, sure.

Assuming it's a straight jump from full time to contract work, right?

Venture2099

22:40

Those are your two ways. If you are not on a client location you are unlikely to gain a contract. You need an agency who need a contract filled. Once you are trusted you can negktiate directly with the company

Apply while you still have a job. Saying you are on the market and see what is offered.

Frank

My strategy had been to start a local computer business, and use word of mouth to start getting my name out.

And slowly grow it into a full time job.

Venture2099

Sure but that is not really traditional contracting. That is legitmately starting a business.

GnomeSlice

Hey man, do you use Steam at all?

Frank

You're talking just straight contract work. Okay, I can see that disconnect.

Venture2099

99.9% of contractors have no intention of actually building a business. They just wanted liability protection and tax

I do yeh - mainly PUBG

GnomeSlice

22:43

Add me

I'm easy to find

If you like, that is

Frank

@GnomeSlice Not here, man. C'mon.

GnomeSlice

I don't play pubg but you seem alright

Venture2099

If contractors do scale then they typically become an LLP

GnomeSlice

@Frank well I can't pm him and I figured you couldn't see my messages. Sorry

Venture2099

And they are into consultancy

Frank

22:44

@Venture2099 Limited Liability Partnership?

Venture2099

Yeh

Frank

I wouldn't mind starting my own consultantcy, but I have to be a consultant in the first place.

Venture2099

It protects you from the Government claiming you are employee posing as a contractor

There are some good resources on Contract versus Consult

Frank

That...may work differently here in Canada.

I'm not sure they're the same.

Venture2099

They are not the same in the UK.

There are a few litmus tests

Frank

22:45

Most of what I want to do is get away from this butt in seat mentality I'm currently experiencing.

I charge a week rate. Not hourly. And go from there.

Venture2099

Are you a builder? Yes? Not a consult. Are you required to be present 9-5 Mon to Fri? Likely not a consultant

Are you paid to provide the client advisory services? Prob a consultant

Frank

Are we talking like literally consulting now?

Or more tech consulting, which generally provides dev services as well.

Venture2099

If consultancy is your thing then, if family allows, bang in a CV to deloitte or another mid-tier and see what they say

Tech consultants will provide a service contract but they don't execute the contraxt themselves. They then sub-contract or bring in employees

Frank

As is, for my next salaried position, I plan on asking for a 50% raise.

@Venture2099 Which can also work, yeah.

Venture2099

Do it. They can only say no and everything in life is a conversation

Jump onto ITJobsWatch and grab some salary data

Frank

22:50

I've been using Robert Half's Salary Guide to get a feel for what employees make.

Venture2099

Go in forearmed with a list of accomplishments and if no joy then hit the market and get what you deserve

My only regret is not jumping sooner.

Frank

@Venture2099 If you don't mind me asking, how much was the salary jump?

Venture2099

For me? Not sure canadian but UK I went from £39K per year to around £110K. But that is the absolute value...in reality, due to taxes I went from around £2300 per month to £7K.

And I charge VAT.

Frank

So...at least double, then.

Makes sense, from a job security standpoint.

Venture2099

My next contract which I start in 3 weeks is £600 per day.

Frank

22:55

So then the biggest thing I have to do is sell myself.

Venture2099

Absolutely but also have supreme confidence

1. If everyone could do it. They would. They can't.

2. Master your area. Be a thought leader who could give a talk at Toronto Exhibition Centre or other venue

Frank

@Venture2099 My area currently consists of, "antiquated code I can maintain in my sleep"

Venture2099

3. Don't over promise. When you interview, steer the client away from that shit and ask a consultant question...

"What problems are you facing?"

Once they start talking about that and you can give them support you are hired. That simple.

Frank

I've been reading Kalzemeus to get a better grasp on what employers are looking for.

Venture2099

I always reframe my interviews this way now. Let them do around 10 mins and then gently steer them to..so what kind of issues are you facing right now? Big company..you must habe talented devs...compliment them...

They will counter with..best employees have left, we really need an expert. You then ask, OK..what is your biggest issue right now?

Whatever they say...grab a whiteboard and start showing them how you would fix it or doing a deep dive.

Once you are hired simply set.up your limited company, inurances and company bank account.

Frank

23:02

You make it sound simple.

Venture2099

Every month, save the Canadian corporate tax rate PLUS 10% into a savings acct

Frank

There's got to be some learning curve on there.

Venture2099

Theee is but my speciality is stakeholder relations. I find the room easy. I am a terrible engineer haha

But the trjth

Sorry mobile typing is awful

Frank

I hear that.

Venture2099

There is a learning curve but it is mainly fear. Once you get over that...plain sailing.

Frank

23:04

I'm loath to just jump ship, though; this is a small company, and I'm literally their only IT guy.

Venture2099

My last piece of advice...I grew up poor. My dad asked me.."how do you justify charging £11000 a month. A month!"

Frank

@Venture2099 Probably not as ingrained in the European culture, but I'm Mennonite.

We have a stereotype of being able to squeeze pennies.

Venture2099

I explained to him that I am not taking X per month. I am saving them Y per month.

Frank

@Venture2099 That's the advice I've been giving friends.

Focus on the value you're providing, not what you cost.

Venture2099

Over the course of a year, I might have only taken 3 or 4 decisions but that saved them a million.

Exactly.

If you know that already...you are ready to contract Frank

:-)

Frank

23:08

I might have to throw my name out there soon, then.

But I have enough on my plate right now; planning a wedding. >< So darn busy.

Gonna have to happen after.

Venture2099

Haha def do it after

Congrata btw

Congrats*

Frank

Thanks!

Wonder if I can do right by my company by throwing them a good dev that can take over from me.

Venture2099

Do salary raise. If no joy then suggest the contract working. They save a bunch on pension and holidays and admin. They might go for it.

Frank my friend. I am off to bed. Have a good night.

Frank

Thanks for the advice, man.

Appreciate it.

Transcript for

Contractor discussion