Discussion between guest and Zvi Twersky - 2018-03-12

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4:32 PM

@ZviTwersky have you ever tried setting a fake display connected to HD4000 as described here?

source: how to use intel quicksync along with discrete graphic card for desktop?

4:48 PM

though *LucidLogix Virtu MVP* is first mentioned it was discontinued so forget it.
the idea is that i want you to remove discrete GPU first, install HD4000 driver, add fake display to the unconnected onboard HDMI, then insert dGPU back to mobo.
if in device manager the HD4000 still shows issue, i wonder if your mobo is at fault such that the onboard graphic ports are starved from electricity/signal when the PCIE/PCI slots are occupied

after all the mobo is >5 years old and might not hold up much longer

5:05 PM

wow didn't know you can also connect both iGPU and dGPU to same monitor to activate Intel QuickSync (source)

6:00 PM

Will read this now. Was doing more tests and was about to post a comment - will soon.

I also thought about that - that maybe the PSU is toast and can't handle both - but although 5 years old, it's a Corsair GS800 and I doubt it's the issue. Will look into this too.

From own experience, motherboards should be the fragilest component.
You never mention which model of dGPU you have. (I don't think your PSU is an issue)

ok, read it. Will only work (maybe) if my computer would detect the Intel port - but it doesn't when my card is installed so I can't use this.

read my last comment on the forum (about the BIOS) - what do you think?

link?

I don't think I have a dgpu

My GPU is NVIDIA GTX660

link to what?

my comment is on my main question where you first found me

dGPU=discrete graphic processing unit, in this case your GTX660

6:12 PM

I thought dgpu was a feature on certain gpud

The discrete GPU (or dGPU) found in select Surface Book models is an NVIDIA GeForce “Maxwell”-based GPU with 1 GB of dedicated GDDR5 RAM.

You said you have been using F10b, which should be fine? I don't see any need to downgrade.

(with regard to BIOS, did i miss something?)

I found this forum that posts ALL bios upgrades - even beta ones and they have one newer version F11c but people ask why it was taken off the GIGABYTE site and no one has a clear answer so I'm afraid to flash to it

iGPU=integrated GPU, in this case on the Intel CPU chip, HD4000 (just to clarify)

I just posted this:

Conclusion: I am certain that it's a BIOS setting problem. The BIOS setting "Init Display First" MUST be set to IGFX for Internal Graphics to work. Problem is that when card is installed, BIOS will not save this setting and it's reverted to AUTO and that's why Intel is not loading with Windows. Why this happens is another issue but at least I know what the cause is.

ah ok - got it

IGPU I knew what it was

link to forum post?

6:15 PM

I posted it here

Conclusion: I am certain that it's a BIOS setting problem. The BIOS setting "Init Display First" MUST be set to IGFX for Internal Graphics to work. Problem is that when card is installed, BIOS will not save this setting and it's reverted to AUTO and that's why Intel is not loading with Windows. Why this happens is another issue but at least I know what the cause is.

That's what I just wrote there

ahhh BIOS forum?

sec I'll findit

forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/28441-gigabyte-beta-bios.html

It's on the first post under Z77 UP4 TH

did you happen to have used ubuntu 17.04 release on your PC for a while before the problem manifest?

Then further down someone asks....

I used Ubuntu only from a disk and on a virtual machine. Never installed it

I only have 17.10.1

but again, remember that this happens on fresh install too - AND we KNOW that the IGFX goes back to AUTO - and I read that if it's on AUTO - the VGA port will be disabled

*dang i meant 17.10 release. if you only ran it in an VM then forget me asking.

So I know WHY the Intel is not working - because of that setting in the BIOS. If I remove the card, the BIOS it STAYS on IGFX and the VGA and HDMI and DVI top ports all work fine

because there was report that 17.10 broke various laptop by rendering the BIOS setting read-only

6:23 PM

so I just need to figure out why the BIOS setting changes to AUTO when the card is in. I tried to put the card on PCIEX-16 and regular PCI ports - same with both

i was wondering can the same happen to desktop and ruin the "Init Display First" settings...

what?

yeah, i meant to say, ... the problem lies before the OS

low level, either BIOS settings, or broken hardware

yes, "desktop" and "Init" in same sentance got me confused since "Init" is before any desktop

that's why I wanted to downgrade the BIOS- to try a different version but it won't let me

If I had another graphics card I would try. I DO have another one in the house (it's not mine) but it's a NVIDIA 1060 which I don't know if my motherboard supports it. I just thought of this now - so I'll research this and maybe if it does - I can try that card

TechLord told me that he will connect tomorrow instead of today. I don't have high hopes for what he can do but what can I lose by him trying

i understand...

6:28 PM

broken hardware seems strange since each works independently. (Intel alone or NVIDIA alone)

as the consensus is that the problem lies outside OS but low level (BIOS / broken motherboard), remote TeamViewer session, i would say is work in vain...

I even connected BOTH monitors - the LG 38 inch to the HDMI port and another 1080 monitor to the VGA and then disconnected the card - the system ran a dual monitor setup perfectly

Yes, I'm %99.999999 sure it's low level and TV won't help

no, My motherboard itself has an HDMI port right under the VGA

my NVIDIA card doesn't even have a VGA

both were connected to the motherboards ports. card was out of case

so that's it for now. I'm going to research on the AUTO thing and also if a 1060 card will work in my computer to try

if you have to shut down to test stuff then take your time.

It IS compatible! I'll try it tomorrow.

Just to clarify, the HD4000 under display adapter in device manager will disappear / fade off once you insert the dGPU?

6:36 PM

yes, it will become hidden (gray if viewing hidden devices)

of course I don't put in the card while computer is on

was tempted to try that but thought it's stupid and risk of frying the card

topic for another time, whether dGPU is hot-plug-able

I don't think it's a swappable piece of hardware

yes, that's what I meant - hot-plug

hot-swap

anyway, I will do the 1060 tomorrow and now I'll research the AUTO thing a bit. Also, I'll research if it's possible to downgrade the BIOS to F9 or something.

may you try flashing the same version F10b & clear CMOS?

sorry if you have already tried clearing the settings that way...

I already cleared the CMOS - didn't help. But didn't think of flashing to same version.... true that with software, re-installing is like a "repair install" so maybe that's an idea. I'll try that tomorrow too

i am also baffled as to what shorting the CMOS pin will reset, since there are settings that are stored non-volatile in BIOS chip for laptop...

6:41 PM

this is not a laptop.

so are you sure on desktop mobo it is all stored volatile and resetable by shorting the real time clock pin ??

I think there are two storage places. RAM and ROM - one is dependent on the BIOS battery and one of isn't.

in the ubuntu 17.10 sanga, the laptop's BIOS is fixed as read-only and removing the RTC-battery cannot reset the BIOS settings...

I think that shorting the battery and the CMOS pins would delete anything stored

Maybe while shorting the cmos I also shorted something I shouldn't have... THAT would be a logical hardware reason

I hope not though

i think that's unlikely

6:46 PM

ok - people say you CAN downgrade the bios

it depends. only if you know your way.

my way?

I use the q-flash utility built into the bios

that's how I flashed to F10b years ago

ok you can always downgrade BIOS forcefully through external chip programmer.

ahhhh yes, but I would only force a downgrade if I'm certain that it won't fry the MB

BIOS is software. If there was only a way to make the BIOS "read-only"..... maybe then the AUTO wouldn't be able to change

People have the same AUTO issue as me:

I exactly have the same problem right now , i cleared the cmos by removing the battery , but whenever i change my graphic adaptor to PCI/PEG , it switched back to AUTO on reboot. I have a zotac GTX 1060 mini and a Digilite DL-b75m mobo , unfortunately there is no bios for this currently :( But i know a guy who fixed this issue by updating his gigabyte mobo bios.

i forgot which utility would allow downgrading gigabyte bios...

the built-in qflash might refuse to do so

i mentioned that vendor-lock in exist for several years already earlier in the chats

6:51 PM

If it's possible - I'll figure out how to do it. THOSE are things I'm good at - as long as no other issue prevents me from doing it

maybe "AUTO" is the default settings?

ohhhhh wait..... I just though of something....

or could you trigger the backup BIOS to restore the main BIOS??

Gigabyte Dual-BIOS blablabla

When I cleared CMOS some other time, I remember that not only did I get a pop-up at boot saying that my BIOS has been reset - but also my CLOCK was reset to 12:00 o'clock and date was wrong.... THIS time when I reset CMOS, I got the pop-up but the date and time were still correct! So maybe I didn't short it properly

There is no backup bios. There are only backup bios profiles which are just saved profiles of settings.

hmm... take your time to try again. what? no backup bios?!

6:55 PM

I don't know what a backup bios would be. Don't have that option of backup or restore - only for profiles

try again? hahah I'm not going to do a CMOS reset now. Too tired.

"Support for DualBIOS™" ... You don't know your broad well.

it's dark in the case and I'd need a flashlight and safety pins (no CLEAR CMOS button on old cases :-).... I'll do it in the morning

oh my....

I SEE M_BIOS and B_BIOS on the board....

is B_BIOS a backup?

yes... you just find it after 5 years but ah...

It says on the GIGABYTE site that the process of using the B_BIOS is automatic and will happen if the main BIOS fails. Mine didn't "fail" per-say so I would need to see if I can force the use of the backup

hahaha

i am not sure how to trigger it, some say during the upgrade maybe both M_BIOS and B_BIOS are updated to same version, so ... still no downgrade that way

7:00 PM

yes, we wrote the same thing :-)

Any sort of event that causes the "Main" BIOS chip to fail, whether it is a virus attacking your system, or a user incorrectly flashing the BIOS, the "Backup" kicks in and gets your system up and running automatically.

i meant i dunno if B_BIOS is untouched from factory.

So maybe I'll stick a virus on the main BIOS - to force the use of the backup :-) :-)

... try googling gigabyte dual bios recovery, check video on youtube... can't help on this one

yes, I'll do that too. I'm just making a list of things to do tomorrow. Too tired today

if you really decide to downgrade your BIOS, please visit [MDL](https://forums.mydigitallife.net/forums/bios-mods.25).
"Flash from pure DOS with Efiflash.exe included." <-- Gigabyte probably need a specific version of flasher utility to allow downgrading and flashing custom bios mod.

7:05 PM

cool. Added to list :-)

you are a great help

thank you

By the way, I asked today on the Edius forums this:

Can anyone confirm that they have applied Meltdown/Spectre patches and their Intel HD Graphics drivers are still working and in Edius they are still getting the Accelerated Hardware option when exporting H.264?

Got reply:

No problem here. I have Edius 8.53WG and the latest Windows 10 Pro updates.

Once you did the reinstall test, it really make no sense to point the finger to meltdown/spectre whatsoever.

yes, but techlord said something about one of those flashing the CPU or something - which WOULD stay flashed since it's low level

that's what I understood

or maybe I said that.... I can't remember

someone said that one was software and one was firmware

so I just asked

i disagree with him on that, and is why i chimed in.

I doubted it too because I saw articles on how Intel - in order to make it all go away - would have to do something to the CPU psychically on the next chips that go to market.

sec, phonecall

BIOS flash from Windows, right that should be persistent. CPU Microcode Patch? NO WAY.

AFAIK, a microcode patch would mitigate Spectre. but that need to be provided by upgrading the BIOS, not "ad-hoc" "hot-plug" by Windows.

[quote]Warning: For Windows systems, microcode updates have to be shipped via the BIOS/UEFI to protect against Spectre (Variant 2) across applications.[/quote]
[Spectre still unfixed, unlike what Intel says](https://gist.github.com/woachk/2f86755260f2fee1baf71c90cd6533e9)

7:16 PM

still on phone with daughter - sec

7:29 PM

hey. just finished phone call. I'm beat. I'm going to take out dog and get ready for bed. Thank you very much

ok bye. hmm. i wonder should i stay on this.

look like no easy progress from here.

let me tomorrow just do all we wrote and I'll update you if we need to look into more options

yes, we have lots to try

I'll give you an update tom

give it a rest for now :-) you did a lot

have a good night (whenever it's night by you)

8:27 PM

I still think aging malfunctioning mobo can't be ruled out.
Init Display First" is not "Only detect this display". Whatever it is set to should not prevent HD4000 from showing in device manager.

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Mar '1812

Discussion between guest and Zvi Twersky

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