last day (23 days later) » 

room mode changed to Gallery: anyone may enter, but only approved users can talk
@Alessandro Hey hey hey
I'm wrapping my head around the horned sphere example
(with debatable results)
Oh right that's a good object
I'll give you a nice picture, wait a second
Wait the horned sphere isn't compact? Isn't it an embedding of $S^2$ in $\Bbb R^3$?
Yes, but they're throwing away the bad subset
page 5 figure 1
That's the embedding of $S^2$ in $\Bbb R^3$
Is that a more clarifying picture?
10:45
Ah, the actual embedding is the compactification of that construction (which is missing a cantor set, which is also the set of ends the book is talking about)
@BalarkaSen indeed
Yup!
Technically you can also take the standardly embedded sphere in $\Bbb R^3$ and throw away a cantor subset of the sphere and get an object with a cantor set of ends
It's just not a very interesting embedding though :)
I like the picture that the lochness monster compactifies to a sphere with handles accumulating to infinity
It more or less says that the end space of the lochness monster has genus/nontrivial topology
@BalarkaSen That's actually the exercise 4.2.2
10:49
By the way that's only tangentially related but do you have a good source that proves that the horned sphere is actually a sphere?
Yup, Hatcher section 2.B
page 170
Thanks, bookmarked for later
You can also star it here for future ref
that's a good idea
(and I got sniped)
lmao
imma carefully read defn 4.2.1
Ah you actually want each $U_i$ to be an unbounded connected component of $X \setminus K_i$
10:55
Yeah, if $\overline{U_i}$ were compact then you could consider another sequence of compact sets with $K_n\cup U_i$ in place of $K_n$ for all $n\ge i$ so we don't want to have ends in $U_i$
Good point
I'm just imagining as you want to approximate the infinity
having bounded components defeats the point
There's nothing "at infinity" if the component is bounded, intuitively speaking
Right
Consider the one point compactification $L^*$ of $L$. $\{U_{\alpha_k}\}$ as defined is exactly a sequence of connected, decreasing neighborhoods of $\infty$ isn't it.
$L$ is a noncompact connected manifold, as assigned right before definition 4.2.1 in the book
I'm just trying to be consistent with their notation
11:01
I'm not sure I'm following then, let's work with $\Bbb R$, its one point compactification is $S^1$ and the nbhds of $\infty$ are $\Bbb R\setminus [-n,n]$, but there is an end $\Bbb R\setminus (-\infty,n]$
Oh I see. You're right.
The point is $\Bbb R \setminus [-n, n]$ has two components.
I can choose which way I want to go
Yes, so this is more subtle than just taking a decreasing sequence of neighborhoods of the one point compactification
The compactification in the end is going to be larger, $L \cup \text{End}(L)$ in some appropriate sense
Which makes sense since we want to track "how many ways" are there to go to infinity, while the one point compactification only cares about whether you can go to infinity
True true
That's why the components matter. It's like I'm choosing a sequence of branches of a tree to go to infinity.
@BalarkaSen Right, the book describes the topology of $L\cup\text{End}(L)$ on page 112 (how does one make the big epsilon the authors use to denote the set of ends in latex?)
$\mathcal{E}(L)$
Close enough
11:06
$\upvarepsilon$ $\textepsilon$
detextify tricked me
well I like the notation End(L) anyway :P
I am not sure I understand the topology on End(L)
figure 4.2.3 is very clarifying to me
Oh, if $e \in \text{End}(L)$ and $U$ is an open subset of $L$ containing a fundamental system which defines $e$, then the set of $e' \in \text{End}(L)$ such that $e'$ is defined by a fundamental system contained in $U$ is an open nbhd of $e$ in $\text{End}(L)$
Pretty sure those are the basic open neighborhoods of $e$ in $\text{End}(L)$
@AlessandroCodenotti Yep
OK I get it, and the topology on $L \cup \text{End}(L)$ is also very clear.
11:14
Wait, why are you putting a topology just on $\text{End}(L)$?
Why not?
A right notion of boundary should have a good topology on it
In this case, it's just defining how a sequence of ends converge to other ends.
$\{e_k\}$, a sequence of elements of $\text{End}(L)$, converges to $e \in \text{End}(L)$ if for every neighborhood $U \subset L$ containing a fundamental system that defines $e$ also contains fundamental systems of all but finitely many $e_k$'s.
@BalarkaSen So for the topology not to be discrete you need some end $e$ for which there is no open set $U\subset L$ such that $U$ contains a fundamental system defining $e$, but no fundamental system defining any other end, as in figure 4.2.3
That took some time for me to parse, but exactly!
@BalarkaSen I had the same problem with your message :P
Any open set of $L$ in 4.2.3 that contains a fundamental system defining $e_\infty$ contains the fundamental system defining $e_n$ for some large enough $n$
In fact under this topology $\text{End}(L)$ of figure 4.2.3 should be the two-point compactification of $\Bbb Z$
Which is $\{0\} \cup \{1/n : n \in \Bbb N\}$, but two-ways.
I'm confused by the "compact boundary" request on page 113, compact were?
Ah, compact in $L$, the piece of boundary it shares with some $K_i$
Hmm. How can $U \subset L$ be unbounded and have compact boundary?
There is no boundary at infinity
Ahh
lmao I was thinking exactly of parabolic subsets of $\Bbb R^2$
like interiors of parabola
11:24
Like $[a,+\infty)$ has a single point as boundary
that's exactly what they don't want me to think
fuckin' hell
Ok, there is no boundary at infinity. Good parsing.
Yeah that confused me too
I like this topology on $L^* = L \cup \text{End}(L)$
The subspace topology on $\text{End}(L)$ surely agrees with what I defined.
Oof prop 4.2.4 damn
This is a rich topological construction
11:28
I should go have lunch now, but 'll be back (hopefully) soon depending on the queue in the canteen
Enjoy! Bon apetite
Sorry for butchering that if I did
Thanks
I don't know French, don't worry :P
12:18
I'm back
But I'll have to go at a diffgeo lecture in an hour
So did you discover something interesting in the meantime? @Balarka
Ah no I wasn't looking
I want to understand prop 4.2.4
That seems to be the real shit
Sounds like a big exercise
Indeed, so let's see
12:44
Ok, I convinced myself that the first step of the proof works, assuming such an exhaustion by compact submanifolds exists, is its existence obvious? Or known for other reasons?
I think an approach to get such an exhaustion is to impose a metric $d$ on $L$, consider $B_n(p)$ to be the ball of radius $n$ in $L$ under the metric $d$ so that $\{B_n(p)\}$ is a countable cover of $L$ and take an atlas $U_\alpha$ of $L$ such that for all $i$ $U_i$ is contained in $B_n(p)$ for some $n$.
Then take $K_n$ to be union of all such $U_\alpha$'s which intersect $B_n(p)$
In the definition of $d(e,e')$ I hope the authors made a typo and meant $2^{-r(e,e')}$, because using $e$ has a basis with all the $e$s already floating around is evil
Oh yes lololol
I'm still reading 1. wait a sec
This looks like the p-adic metric
Ohhhh of course it is
@Alessandro I have a model for thinking about this
It looks kinda like the Baire space to me
@BalarkaSen I'm interested in your model, go ahead
Consider the set $\mathcal{A} = \{U \subset L : U \subset L \setminus K_i \, \text{is a connected component for some}\, i \in \Bbb N\}$
Set of all connected components of the complements of $K_i$
12:56
Ok
Uh actually I'm not convinced anymore, I can explain my reasoning but I think it's flawed
(I also don't see that the resulting topology is independent from the choice of the $K_i$, although I find this reasonable)
Sorry had to go pick up a phone
So impose an order on $\mathcal{A}$, by inclusion
Then $\mathcal{A}$ bijects to a directed tree whose nodes/vertices correspond to the $U$'s and two vertices are joined by a directed edge if $U \subset V$ (direction is towards "$U \to V$")
You need $K_0=\varnothing$ for this to be a proper tree I think
This is infinite upwards, towards the direction arrow points, and each branch of this tree (a path starting from anywhere and following the direction given) limits to an end
13:03
With a single root I mean
@Alessandro Yeah good point
The "boundary" of this tree (also known as end of the graph) then has a bijection with $\text{End}(L)$
The boundary is precisely a Cantor set
And the metric $d$ that Candel-Conlon writes down is exactly the Cantor metric
@BalarkaSen That depends on the space, it could have a finite amount of ends, I think you're thinking about a complete binary tree or something similar
Ok, it's going to be a compact totally disconnected space :)
I think the end of the tree is going to be homeomorphic to $\text{End}(L)$
I see the disconnected part, I'm not sure about the compact part
@BalarkaSen I agree
Ok, good point, so we'd have to work that out explicitly. Let's just think about the combinatorial problem for now: We have a directed tree $T$ and $\text{End}(T)$ be the end space of the tree defined by the set of equivalence classes of directed edge-paths $\gamma$ starting from the root (so "rays"), under the equivalence $\gamma_0 \sim \gamma_1$ if there is another ray $\sigma$ which contains infinitely many vertices of $\gamma_0$ and $\gamma_1$ both.
13:12
Hm, actually this tree isn't necessary binary, is it? So a path in tree corresponds to an element of $\Bbb N^{\Bbb N}$ (each node still has at most countable many outgoing arrows, otherwise the space wouldn't be second countable)
The metric $d$ C-C describes gives a topology on $\text{End}(T)$
We have to see this agrees with the topology inherited from the bijection with $\text{End}(L)$
Is there a combinatorial way to see the latter topology?
@AlessandroCodenotti Yeah the valence of nodes need not be constant.
Good point about having countably many outgoing arrows
So the set of paths in this tree is actually a subspace of the Baire space as I was guessing earlier
Ah
Yes, true
I don't speak set theory :)
@BalarkaSen Since we have a tree rather than a generic graph, mustn't $\sigma$ be either $\gamma_0$ or $\gamma_1$?
@Alessandro Ah yes fair point
13:17
@BalarkaSen that's descriptive set theory, not set theory :P
Well it's a tree so that's unnecessary
So $\gamma_0 \sim \gamma_1$ if $\gamma_0$ and $\gamma_1$ agrees
Ok, I have 10 minutes before diffgeo, let's work out the compactness and we can finish the proof later
:thonkfast:
Oh so you want to just prove $d(e, e') = 2^{-r(e, e')}$ defines a compact topology? That should be ez
Suppose $e_n$ is a sequence of ends such that $d(e_n, e) \to 0$
That means $r(e_n, e) \to \infty$
$r(e_n, e)$ is always bounded if $e_n$ does not accumulate to $e$, I want to say
I gotta go, but don't we need to pick an arbitrary sequence of ends and show that there is a convergent subsequence?
Oh yeah oops, I want to show sequential compactness.
I was mixing up the statement of the theorem.
We can continue this later. Bye!
I'll be back in a couple of hours, after diffgeo, if you're still around
I'll be around :)
This is good point set topology in contrast to bad point set topology
gets me hyped
 
2 hours later…
15:22
Bad point set would be doing the endspace construction on an arbitrary topological space? @Balarka
Nah it's proving T_3 topological groups are T_4
Urgh
(I know nothing about topological groups tbh)
I at least know that knowing the proof of T_3 topological groups are T_4 immediately makes you a rick and morty enthusiast
LoL
So let's see why this metric space is compact?
OK yes
So I have a sequence $\{e_n\}$ of ends
15:33
Ok, we want to to find a convergent subsequence then
Right, hm.
I'm not convinced this is the best way to check compactness
I don't see the picture of what happens if there is no convergent subsequence
Maybe we want to actually show that it's complete first?
That seems easier
Well, totally bounded seems easy to me, and complete+totally bounded iff compact holds in every metric space
15:39
So completeness might be a good bet, let's say the sequence $\{e_n\}$ is Cauchy then
Then $d(e_n, e_{n+1}) \to 0$. So $r(e_n, e_{n+1}) \to \infty$.
Hm. hm. hm.
Cauchy is much stronger than that though
Right, I'm thinking of an easier implication
Intuitively Cauchy means that to tell $e_n$ and $e_m$ apart I have to go far into the sequence of the $K_i$
So two distinct components of $L\setminus K_{r(e_n, e_{n+1})}$ are nbhds of $e_n$ and $e_{n+1}$
Right...
15:42
I think we need to characterize in some way the end which is the canditate limit of $e_n$
I'm trying to choose components of $L \setminus K_{r(e_n, e_{n+1})}$ cleverly which would be the fundamental system of the candidate limit
How about choosing the component containing $e_{n+1}$ at each stage?
Let $U_n$ be the component of $L \setminus K_{r(e_n, e_{n+1})}$ containing $e_{n+1}$. Then $U_n \supset U_{n+1}$, right?
If $r(e_n, e_{n+1})$ is an increasing sequence to infinity.
Let's suppose $e_n$ isn't eventually constant because that's an easy case by the way
@BalarkaSen I'm not convinced by this
Ok, I suggest this. Pick $n_k, m_k$ for each natural number $k$ such that $\{r(e_{n_k}, e_{m_k})\}_k$ is a strictly increasing sequence. You can always do this as $\lim_{m, n \to \infty} r(e_n, e_m) \to \infty$, I think.
Ok?
the last $r$ is a $d$?
Fixed.
15:49
Ok, I agree then
Alright. So $r(e_{n_k}, e_{m_k}) < r(e_{n_{k+1}}, e_{m_{k+1}})$
This means $K_{r(e_{n_k}, e_{m_k})} \subset K_{r(e_{n_{k+1}}, e_{m_{k+1}})}$ by our chosen increasing exhaustion $K_\alpha$.
lmao at the indices though
We have reached the peak of mathematical notation
I'll pin this one for posterity
@BalarkaSen That's my problem with this claim
Aha.
Hm.
(That's not a manifold of course, but you can use a cylinder with a third end)
I want to take the component that goes inside $K_2$ (there has to be such a component) or something
Let's just finish writing what I was writing and we'll figure something out.
Let $U_k$ be the complement of $K_{r(e_{n_k}, e_{m_k})}$ in $L$.
Then $U_k \supset U_{k+1}$. But we'll have to pick components carefully.
15:58
@BalarkaSen $U_k$ is an unbounded component of the complement of that mess of indices I'm not gonna write, I think
Well, no.
@Alessandro I'm changing notation to denote it as the full complement.
@BalarkaSen "how many levels of indexes are you on? Uhm, 1 or 2? you're like a little child, watch this"
I'm worse than a Riemannian geometer rn
@BalarkaSen Ok, so, this is true, we have to find a way to pick the components in $U_k$ now without messing up the inclusions then
16:00
It seems intuitive that this can always be done
Well, suppose $U_0=L$ for simplicity (just pick $K_0=\varnothing$), you can construct a tree as earlier whose edges represent inclusion among the components of the $U_k$, this has infinite depth, hence there is an infinite path
Good point.
I'm worried that it might have lots of infinite paths/rays though
Which one should I pick for my candidate as limit?
Right, somehow Cauchyness should give a single one
AH, OH
Some insight
16:04
In the tree visualization Cauchyness tell that the tree can't fork too "badly" points are close if they are on the same subtree
You can't pick a random infinite path. You have to pick one which goes through vertices representing either the component containing $e_{n_k}$ or the component containing $e_{m_k}$ at the $k$-stage
That was our original premise
Right, this makes sense
What I'm thinking is that if $d(e_n,e_m)$ is very small, the infinite paths in the tree corresponding to them must agree on a big initial segment
Right
I see your picture
Ok, $U_k \supset U_{k+1} \supset U_{k+2} \supset \cdots$. Let's just write that down (where U_k is defined as earlier)
$U_k$ has two components separating $e_{n_k}$ and $e_{m_k}$, yes?
What if $U_{k+1}$ is not inside either of those components
That's our worry.
$U_{k+1}$ in turn has two components separating $e_{n_{k+1}}$ and $e_{m_{k+1}}$, which is interesting.
So $U_k$ separates both ($n_k$ and $m_{k+1}$) and ($n_k$ and $n_{k+1}$), in particular, by hypothesis.
I feel like some clever choice of $n_k$ and $m_k$ will contradict this by using the fact that $r(e, e')$ is the smallest integer s.t. blah blah blah
@Alessandro Do you see my approach?
16:26
I see the idea, but not the details to conclude :/
Urgh I feel like there should be a much cleaner approach to this whole proof
Or maybe it's an exercises because it was too ugly to write in the book, who knows
lmao
Well maybe we should take a break
At least we understand the space much better
The tree/Baire space intuition was worthwhile
Yeah, I also have to leave sometimes soon
Fair.
Let's return to this at a later date
But I have the whole morning free tomorrow if you want to finish this proof
Sounds good :)
16:33
I'm much more convinced of the compactness now though
Yeah I have better intuition for this
It's all modeled on a tree
Good, let's get back to this tomorrow then
Gromov boundary yolo
maybe we should learn that after we're done with this lol
What's that?
(The fact that it is named after Gromov is enough to scare me lol)
Ah so if you have a metric space $(X, d)$
Say $\gamma$ is a path in $X$. Length of $\gamma$ makes sense
Namely, just define it as infimum of sum of $d(\gamma(t_i), \gamma(t_{i+1}))$ for a partition $t_i$ of $[0, 1]$, infimum taken over all such partitions
OK?
16:38
Sure, just like for curves in $\Bbb R^n$
Right
So you can define a new metric $\rho(x, y) = \text{inf}_{\gamma} \ell(\gamma)$
Where infimum is taken over all paths from $x$ to $y$
ok
this agrees with the standard metric in $\Bbb R^n$, right?
A metric space is called a length metric space if these two metrics agree ie $d = \rho$
@Alessandro Correct
Ok, makes sense
You can define geodesics on length metric spaces
It's precisely a path $\gamma$ from $x$ to $y$ such that $\ell(\gamma) = d(x, y)$
I believe
Or, well, that's a minimizing geodesic but whatever
@Alessandro Gromov found that curvature also makes sense
Namely, if $x, y, z$ are three points on $X$
This is starting to go over my head and I still don't see how a boundary comes into play
Consider the triangle with sides being geodesics joining $x, y$ and $y, z$ and $x, z$
If that happens, i.e., a nbhd of one side is contained in union of nbhd of the other two sides, it's negatively curved
This is called a $\delta$-hyperbolic metric space
These guys have Gromov boundaries, similar to the boundary of the Poincare disk model (think Escher's pictures)
16:45
Ah, I see
Which are given in very similar ways as end spaces, as rays from a point going to infinity
modulo identification if the rays are asymptotic to each other
It's a much finer topology than the end space topology
But that's what approximately a Gromov boundary is
I see, sounds interesting
Trees are the easiest example of delta-hyperbolic metric spaces, and their Gromov boundary is exactly the end space of the tree
Now I have told you everything I know about Gromov boundary
It also sounds rather complicated compared to the end space topology so it's probably better to understand that first
16:47
Ok, I gotta go now, I probably will be busy in the evening, but we can continue tomorrow in the morning! Bye

  last day (23 days later) »