stop the merry-go-round

I have 3 tables with this structure: +-----------+ +-----------+ +-----------+ | Files | | Programs | | Channels | |-----------| |-----------| |-----------| | ID | | ID | | ID | | State | | State | | State | | ProgramID | | ChannelID |...

They added the CREATE TABLE statements and indexes

For all you SQL Server guys, to answer ;)

Joe Obbish

1:44 PM

@ypercubeᵀᴹ looks like an MSSQL problem to me

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@JoeObbish If only that was the problem with the title

"multiple joins", "large data"

Paul White

"optimize"

ypercubeᵀᴹ

it's only a 2 joins (3 tables) and 1M rows for two of the tables. The 4rd is likely even smaller

@PaulWhite Ah. I had code reviews at work, making "optimization" to be changed ...

ypercubeᵀᴹ

2:12 PM

but .. but ... that was in the UK. isn't OPTIMIZE FOR UNKNOWN a thing in SQL Server? I suppose OPTIMISE FOR UNKNOWN would yield syntax error.

Joe Obbish

2:42 PM

sounds like a row goal problem

all problems are caused by VMs, row goals, or parameter sniffing

Forrest

or developers

mostly developers

jadarnel27

@Forrest 😥

Joe Obbish

notice how Josh isn't disagreeing

v. revealing

jadarnel27

3:10 PM

If the shoe fits.

I've inflicted many developer problems on SQL Servers over the years.

5

Yay!

Erik Darling

👋

ypercubeᵀᴹ

nice! now for the gold!

jadarnel27

3:28 PM

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Give me another 9-12 months =P

Sean Gallardy

@jadarnel27 Gratz

Zane

@jadarnel27 Of all the developers I know, you're one of them.

Seriously though your answers are great so keep it up man!

jadarnel27

@ErikDarling 🤙

@SeanGallardy Thanks!

@Zane Haha I appreciate it =P

Forrest

Nice Josh :)

jadarnel27

Thanks, @Forrest!

@SeanGallardy have you seen this?

Sean Gallardy

3:51 PM

@jadarnel27 Looks like they have some AG issues, but most likely it's something else going on since they are getting remote harden errors. Of course it's not going to fail over right if we can't successfully harden the data.

Current favorite error message of the day from WinDBG: **** List is hosed

4

Erik Darling

lol

Sean Gallardy

How are all my people, today?

@jadarnel27 Honestly this would take much more time than is probably allowed on the site because we'd need a full barrage of data like Cluster log, SQL errorlog, AG logs, etc., and I don't know how people normally do that here... like uploading and scrubbing that much data.

Plus, do you really want to give total strangers your system event log?

I mean, Erik would, but others...?

Erik Darling

so uh

sounds like a good fit for a support ticket huh

Sean Gallardy

Honestly, it does.

I'm guessing they don't have support

So it'll most likely be a Pro case and I'll never see it

Free list entry : CORRUPTED

Gotcha!

jadarnel27

@SeanGallardy The length of the question, and number of comments, seem like a good indication that you're right.

@SeanGallardy That looks like a bad time.

Joe Obbish

4:13 PM

@SeanGallardy So should this be closed with the "needs professional help" reason?

Sean Gallardy

4:38 PM

@JoeObbish Didn't know that was a reason lol

Yes, I'll VTC it

Zane

@SeanGallardy Biked into work for the first time today. Pretty jazzed about that.

Erik Darling

should have squatted into work

Sean Gallardy

@Zane Wowza, how far is the ride?

Zane

Been working on being less of a fat turd lately.

@SeanGallardy 3 miles.

Erik Darling

how fat are you?

fatter than me?

Zane

4:43 PM

About 20 lbs over weight maybe 25

Erik Darling

that's perfect powerlifter bloat

just lift

Max Vernon

4:54 PM

wow, the last of our SQL Server 2000 instances are gone.

Sean Gallardy

@MaxVernon Congrats? What'd they do, upgrade to 2005?

Erik Darling

lol

jadarnel27

Hahaha

Max Vernon

lol.

no, mostly 2012. I know, I know.

jadarnel27

I should run to work sometime. It's only 13 miles.

Erik Darling

4:56 PM

hahahahaha 2012

did they forget the second hop?

Max Vernon

lol

Sean Gallardy

I mean, they upgraded from wholly unsupported to already in extended support and only has 2.5 years left...

Max Vernon

yep.

Sean Gallardy

so if they start upgrading now, they might be on 2016 by 2022?

Max Vernon

lol

I wouldn't hold out hope for that.

we have like 3 x 2016 instances with none in production right now.

Titanic does come to mind.

Joe Obbish

5:15 PM

looking forward to window functions?

Erik Darling

serious question

when is the last time there's been a new blog post about window functions

i mean new like something new you can do with them

2012?

2013?

Zane

@jadarnel27 That's more than me by 10 and I'm on a bike.

In most large companies 2 versions behind is cutting edge.

jadarnel27

@Zane Haha right, I was just joking. It would likely take me around 2 hours to get to work if I did that, and I would be useless for at least 30 minutes. Not to mention gross.

Zane

You could probably bike it in an hour depending. Right now my 3 is a bit extended time wise due to the weather.

In more work situation it takes me less time than to drive.

Joe Obbish

5:34 PM

@ErikDarling batch mode support in sql server 2016

Erik Darling

yeah but they don't do anything new

Joe Obbish

you mean T-SQL language improvementS?

Erik Darling

yeah

jadarnel27

What is that DBCC command that makes SQL Server think you have less memory? I can't remember and Google is failing me. I know I read it in one of Paul's blog posts and one of Joe's answers.

Joe Obbish

@jadarnel27 changing max server memory

HTh

dbcc whatif?

Lamak

5:37 PM

DBCC DRUNK

2

Joe Obbish

@ErikDarling you could read Itzik's blog posts and pretend that someone from microsoft wrote them

jadarnel27

@JoeObbish That's it, thanks!

Sean Gallardy

@ErikDarling 2016?

Erik Darling

what happened in 2016?

Sean Gallardy

stuff and things*

Erik Darling

5:38 PM

go on

Sean Gallardy

I dunno, it sounded good at the time

Weren't LAG and LEAD added in 2014 or 2016?

this guy

ach laddie

<--- right here

unbelievable

5:39 PM

go fail something over

Sean Gallardy

Too late :'(

Joe Obbish

the PRIVILEGE of always being on the latest version

and not needing to know when features were introduced

Sean Gallardy

Psshhh tell that to the hundreds of 2008 and R2 cases

Joe Obbish

no u

Sean Gallardy

Oh, I do

Erik Darling

5:40 PM

i'm tuning on a 2008r2 server this week

Joe Obbish

@SeanGallardy how often do you get to tell them that their issue is fixed on a newer version?

Zane

@SeanGallardy 2014 if I recall

Joe Obbish

it was 2012

Zane

Gah!

Joe Obbish

so this room is great with debugging, callstacks, and undocumented stuff

but totally fails at "when was LAG introduced"

Zane

5:41 PM

2014 was just the version we were on when I taught me devs how to use that.

Joe Obbish

I blame Sean

Lamak

@JoeObbish sql server has been lagging since forever, though

Erik Darling

well wait

what about first value and last value

Sean Gallardy

@JoeObbish Pretty often to be honest, since there is... about 4 months left of extended support on software 11 years old.

Joe Obbish

@ErikDarling no one uses those

Erik Darling

5:44 PM

true but

Sean Gallardy

@JoeObbish TBF easily looked up and not very interesting

Erik Darling

they're there

Joe Obbish

@SeanGallardy stop being lazy

Erik Darling

2012 too though

wtf

Sean Gallardy

It's what I do...

I call it... efficient.

Joe Obbish

5:45 PM

I'm sure people are reading the transcript to study for certification exams

Sean Gallardy

I hope not

They won't be reading the right answers we give, they need to pick the Microsoft answers to pass

Joe Obbish

I hate those kinds of tests

"Technically, ..."

Zane

That's part of why I've not had much desire to get those certs.

Sean Gallardy

Technically correct is the best kind of correct

Joe Obbish

@SeanGallardy not when you fail the exam

Erik Darling

5:47 PM

technically correct will get you punched

Sean Gallardy

I'm okay with both of those outcomes

Lamak

you like to get punched?

Sean Gallardy

Depends....

Joe Obbish

woah woah woah

Erik can bench like 500 pounds

he's training to flip cars

you sure you're ready for a punch?

Sean Gallardy

Those use two different muscle groups

Lamak

5:49 PM

@JoeObbish I think that's a requirement for Microsoft employees

Joe Obbish

depends on your punching technique

Sean Gallardy

Anime Punching != Real Punching

or <> for you strict ANSI/ISO standard people

Joe Obbish

talk tough while you can

my waifu will set you straight

Sean Gallardy

In more ways than one?

Lamak

@JoeObbish onepunch man is your waifu?

Joe Obbish

5:50 PM

@Lamak did you know that a season 2 is coming out soon?

Lamak

yes, I did

thanks for the heads up, though

jadarnel27

I didn't know that. I loved season 1.

Erik Darling

why doesn't anyone recommend that to me?

Joe Obbish

@ErikDarling I badgered you for months about it

now you won't even finish it

jadarnel27

I mentioned it in the chat once.

Joe Obbish

5:54 PM

would you like a beach volleyball one?

Erik Darling

onepunch man??

Joe Obbish

@ErikDarling that's old animu

Erik Darling

how come there's just a season 2 now?

Lamak

@JoeObbish but it's great

Joe Obbish

is it?

isn't the guy bald just because it's easier to draw?

jadarnel27

5:57 PM

He's bald because his hair fell out due to his strenuous training regimen.

Lamak

@JoeObbish dude...have you read the manga? (the adapted one)

jadarnel27

> not watching the show

Lamak

nothing is easy to draw there

Joe Obbish

@jadarnel27 I bet you believe everything the politicians say too

@Lamak no I don't read mango

maybe the artist was tired after drawing everything else

had to cut corners

Lamak

@JoeObbish what?, why?

Erik Darling

5:59 PM

@jadarnel27 creatine will do that

Zane

This is where we learn Joe is more into western comics which is my part of town.

Erik Darling

can joe even read?

Joe Obbish

@ErikDarling reading is fundamental

Zane

That doesn't really answer the question.

Erik Darling

quite suspicious

Joe Obbish

6:04 PM

sql queries are basically english

so I must be able to read

Erik Darling

it's all visual cues

i've never actually heard you read one out loud

Zane

right. Plus for all we know you have redgate and you only need to know a handful of letters to write a query.

Joe Obbish

I have poorgate

Sean Gallardy

Erik's punch > Anime's punch, for sure.

Joe Obbish

@SeanGallardy local Florida man who has never been punched by Erik and does not watch anime confidently makes statement comparing the two

Sean Gallardy

6:20 PM

Like any true end user

Joe Obbish

Backups are based on files, so yes, indices are there. Unless you talk petabytes in data, modern backup solutions have zero problem backing thigns up. I back up a 4tb databsae multiple times per day - full backup - and have no problem with that. — TomTom Feb 14 at 7:19

@ErikDarling Are we doing it wrong?

Erik Darling

yeah, you need a better phone

Sean Gallardy

@JoeObbish Might be confusing Vendor based snapshots as "backups"

Like how VM snapshots are "backups"

Joe Obbish

@ErikDarling that's what the government wants

Erik Darling

6:55 PM

tomtom also wants it

only way to run a sql server

Zane

7:39 PM

Oh boy it looks like we're headed to the cloud.

Erik Darling

well boys

just ruined my chances of working at microsoft

@DBArgenis I'm sure it's just part of their Customer Experience Improvement Program.

Tweeted by erikdarlingdata on February 19, 2019 at 7:39 PM in reply to DBArgenis

Lamak

just?

Erik Darling

officially

Lamak

@ErikDarling aaand because of a tweet about a google product?

Erik Darling

no

Joe Obbish

7:42 PM

@Lamak is so contrary today

Erik Darling

@Lamak is acting newer than josh today

Zane

"The Cutomer Experience Improvement program is a feature that comes enabled by default on windows 10, and it secretly collects and submits system information to microsoft."

Oh no they know how much time I've been playing Apex legends during work hours!

Lamak

I actually knew about that...

maybe

Joe Obbish

MVP privilege

Lamak knows all of the secrets

Erik Darling

right?

Lamak

7:45 PM

@JoeObbish If I did, I wouldn't have been surprised about your lack of reading manga

Zane

@JoeObbish I've really gotta start rubbing cheetah blood on my san.

Sean Gallardy

8:00 PM

@ErikDarling I don't have twitter, what happened?

@Zane "Secretly"? Is it really a secret???

Erik Darling

@SeanGallardy i think you can still click on the link to see?

Sean Gallardy

@Zane Bloodhound is my jam

@ErikDarling It's not a link for me? Am I holding it wrong?

Erik Darling

click on the date/time

Sean Gallardy

Thanks, that worked. Not intuitive at all.

I was trying to click on the title, like a civilized person.

Erik Darling

👀

Sean Gallardy

8:03 PM

Hahaha, I like it!

Good show

TBF I don't know if there is "secret" nest telemetry vs CEIP which isn't secret...

Erik Darling

mmhmm

Joe Obbish

is it possible to intercept the CEIP traffic and route it to Sean's computer instead?

Sean Gallardy

It's also different for things such as identifiable vs non

@JoeObbish You can even opt out!

Erik Darling

not on developer edition

Joe Obbish

this again

fake news

dev edition = only edition

Lamak

8:10 PM

@JoeObbish I've developed quite some hatred for those words…."fake news"

Joe Obbish

@Lamak fake news

Lamak

nuh uh

Joe Obbish

do you have a source?

Lamak

I know the guy

Sean Gallardy

@JoeObbish LOL

Zane

8:26 PM

@SeanGallardy since it was the top google result I'm guessing no.

Sean Gallardy

Hehe, sorry it was rhetorical ;)

Joe Obbish

@Lamak Lamak isn't a credible source

Zane

@Lamak is the resource I go to for all things Lamak

jadarnel27

CEIP is secret like your underwear is secret. Most people won't see it, but almost everyone assumes it's there.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@ErikDarling Really? No way to disable it in dev edition?

Zane

8:32 PM

Less than a grand left before @ErikDarling get's to wear his Freddy Mercury costume places other than his house and maybe a few choice bars in the neighborhood. Exciting stuff man. Lots of cash there.

Erik Darling

@ypercubeᵀᴹ maybe not for use regular single dimension beings.

@Zane yeah i gotta bring a change of clothes with me, hahaha

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@ErikDarling Does SQL Server stop working if I stop the traffic with a firewall? (just curious by the way, I have no idea)

Erik Darling

no, you can have it run on a vm with no internet connection at all

but then you've got vm problems

Zane

Gah! Even oracle books are more expensive.

Sean Gallardy

@Zane LOL

Oracle tax at all stages

Erik Darling

8:37 PM

i should sell people some oracle licenses

this consulting thing is dull

Zane

@ErikDarling you should play more video games.

Good lord. Someone is replying to these emails with some sort of color pallet that takes over the whole email chain. Now it looks like the left side of my email thread has been pissed on.

Why is this a feature?! Get that removed @SeanGallardy I hear you've got pull.

Erik Darling

@Zane maybe when i sell some oracle licenses

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@Zane he needs push ;)

Zane

lol

@ErikDarling if you sell one copy you'll be set for a year I imagine.

Erik Darling

exactly

better than my precon as a service ploy

Zane

8:46 PM

@ErikDarling What will be your main selling point. The fact that it's cumbersome and unpleasant to use or that it's archaic and expensive?

Erik Darling

that you don't know any better, probably

Zane

Ahhh yes the if it's expensive it must be premium fallacy. That's how my last company got talked into Teradata.

Sean Gallardy

@Zane I have no Oracle pull, if anything I push? Is that a thing?

Zane

I'll never forget the meeting we were in about 3 years ago where they were like the future of wells fargo is running power BI directly from Teradata. I bust out laughing.

Sean Gallardy

As you should. Good man.

Erik Darling

8:58 PM

> Microsoft Interoperability Events followed you 1m1 minute ago

what the hell

@SeanGallardy is that you? 😂

Sean Gallardy

@ErikDarling We're always watching you...

We see you when you're sleeping... we know when you're awake...

Zane

You specifically Erik. They aren't bothering to watch peons like me.