English Language Learners

Anonymous

10:00

Hello, Robo-Astronaut!

Damkerng T.

Hello, Snail Vehicle!

:P

Anonymous

Vroom, vroom!

Damkerng T.

Hee

Whirrr...!

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

Oh, who's that?!

Anonymous

10:03

Luna! Isn't she big!? :-)

Damkerng T.

Yes!

Anonymous

She's turning out stripey!

Damkerng T.

4 layers already! (What's that word for spiral layers again? I'm really good at keeping forgetting it!)

Anonymous

Whorls!

Anonymous

But you'll need to see a picture of her shell from the side to count properly.

Anonymous

10:05

I'll take one later :-)

Anonymous

Right now she's asleep.

Damkerng T.

Thanks for the word! Whorls (I'd better type it at least once.)

@snailboat Aww

Anonymous

I remember words I type better than words I don't.

Anonymous

I remember words I write better than words I type.

Damkerng T.

Ah, I guess that's true!

Any interesting question on the main site today?

MARamezani

10:07

Where was I? Sorry, I was reviewing a first post in chem.SE.

Damkerng T.

loL

MARamezani

I agree @snailboat. Typing never matches up to writing.

Anonymous

No, the "as" there can be replaced with "in the form of". — MARamezani 2 hours ago

Anonymous

This comment is basically a complete answer.

Anonymous

1

A: Comparative - 'as' vs 'than'?

Is it possible to use 'than' instead of 'as' here? Yes, they are equally grammatically correct. However, as and than have completely different meanings in this context. It would be spoken more as Can be said as: It would be spoken more like It would be spoken more along the lines of...

Anonymous

10:08

This answer is much, much longer. And I upvoted it.

Anonymous

But the short one works for me too. :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I dunno.

Anonymous

I posted my first answer in two months today!

Damkerng T.

It would be spoken more as/like blah blah blah sounds like often is missing to me.

Anonymous

Yesterday we had this question about the animacy hierarchy and its relationship to subjecthood:

Anonymous

10:10

3

Q: Is it grammatically correct to say 'my dog needs walking"? why/why not?

A student of mine produced the following phrase: 'My dog needs walking' which seemed wrong to me from the point of view of grammar. I doubt that one could actually use it with animate objects. Am I right in thinking so?

Damkerng T.

I guess it would be okay, too, with or without often.

Animacy hierarchy!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yeah, you could put often there. That might make it more strictly true.

Damkerng T.

Which is the inanimate object, your student or the dog? — δοῦλος yesterday

That's funny!

These are fine, but I also think the O.P. touches on a valid point – some might sound a little less natural than others. My shirt needs cleaning sounds a bit more natural than my student needs correcting, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that latter is wrong. Much like what @Brian hints at, using this construct with what the O.P. calls "animate objects" gives the language an informal, folksy, affectionate feel: my dog needs walking seems to hint at a bond between owner and dog that goes beyond collar and leash in a way that my car needs washing doesn't quite pull off. — J.R. ♦ yesterday

MARamezani

Oh thanks @snailboat! I usually follow the path of the "cool", and leave a comment instead of answering!

Anonymous

@MARamezani Well done!

Anonymous

10:13

I'm glad to have you here on Team Comment.

Damkerng T.

"My shirt needs cleaning sounds a bit more natural than my student needs correcting". That's kinda intriguing.

MARamezani

Who are the main members?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Hooray for the Team Comment!

Anonymous

Note that membership is not exclusive―you can be a member of Team Answer at the same time.

Anonymous

@MARamezani Damkerng is a member in good standing.

MARamezani

10:14

I see! But I'm feeling too lazy for a membership at Answering team these days.

Damkerng T.

Yep, I'm one of those sir-comments-a-lot's as well!

Anonymous

By the way, I always mentally pronounce the 'r' in Damkerng

Anonymous

@MARamezani That is fine, too!

MARamezani

I do too, but at times Turkish doesn't allow me to.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Hee.

Damkerng T.

10:15

@snailboat That's why I whirrrr!

MARamezani

Guys, I have to go! I'll be back in a couple of hours. Bye!

Classes and stuff.

Damkerng T.

See you!

Anonymous

There's a theory in linguistics, though it's not widely accepted, of a connection between Turkish and Japanese, or more generally, an inclusion of both Koreanic and Japonic in the Altaic language family

Anonymous

There's a number of similarities to be found

Anonymous

Leading scholars reject the idea, though.

Damkerng T.

10:18

Oh, Altaic sounds very familiar!

Anonymous

It's a proposed language family.

Anonymous

It used to have more widespread support.

Damkerng T.

Is it related to the Altai mountain ranges?

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altai_Mountains

Anonymous

Yes, named after that

Damkerng T.

Hah!

One theory we have is that Thai people moved from there!

Anonymous

10:19

These days, even the Koreanic-Japonic connection is disputed

Damkerng T.

Note the sound of tai in Altai!

Anonymous

Oh! I see!

Anonymous

0

A: Should I use hippopotami?

The important thing to note here is that us native English speaker have no idea what the plural of Hippopotamus is, either. Hippopotamouses? Hippopotamice? Generally, we stick with "Hippos", or say "Hippopotami? Hippopotamuses?" and then have a fun 5 minutes where everyone nearby discusses it. ...

Damkerng T.

lol -- That's cute!

I don't know the answer, though.

Anonymous

I like the -mice one :-)

Anonymous

10:21

I do.

Anonymous

Does that make me weird?

Damkerng T.

Nope. I expected you to know the answer!

Anonymous

Hee.

Damkerng T.

(It makes you erudite, if that's the word. :-)

Anonymous

Sure, why not.

Anonymous

10:22

(In informal chat, I sometimes type this as one word: surewhynot)

Damkerng T.

Hehe

Anonymous

I guess other people do it too: wrasslormonkey.tumblr.com/post/98185657127/…

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, did you mean that hippopotamice is acceptable?

Anonymous

I wonder where I picked that up.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh, uh, well, it's acceptable in jocular terms, but no, it's strictly non-standard

Anonymous

10:23

It's a nonce-plural.

Damkerng T.

Ahh -- Thanks for the clarification! :-)

Anonymous

People make up nonce plurals fairly often when they're joking around.

Anonymous

Hippopotamuses is the usual plural.

Anonymous

Hippopotami is still attested today but less common.

Anonymous

Hippopotamus as a zero plural? I'm not sure about that, but it's certainly possible when it's treated as a game animal

Damkerng T.

10:25

Hippopotamouse -- I'm joking in singular!

Anonymous

Yay!

Anonymous

It's a rive-mouse horse!

Damkerng T.

Hee

Anonymous

No one's voted to close our translation-ish question:

Anonymous

-1

Q: Translation of sentence from hindi or punjabi to english

This is my very first question on stackexchange.com. I am trying to improve my English skills and I have exposure to tenses but still while converting few sentences from Hindi/Punjabi i got stuck in determining which tense will apply to a particular sentence. For example, following are few sente...

tense

Anonymous

10:27

I certainly haven't.

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Perhaps it's because of this: This is my very first question on stackexchange.com

> ... and I have exposure to tenses but still while converting few sentences from Hindi/Punjabi ...

I think this is my first, reading have exposure to ....

It makes me think he's a lens or something.

Anonymous

It does sound somewhat unnatural but when I read it I get the right idea

Damkerng T.

I got the right idea a few words later!

Anonymous

actually, that's a valid approach, brcause hippo means horse, and potamus means "of the river", so it makes sense to pluralize the first part rather than the last. I've seem some discussion that suggested (tongue-in-cheek) "hippoepotamus" which is how the Greek plural would be formed. And plural "octopus" would be "octopode" — Brian Hitchcock 11 mins ago

Anonymous

Hmm, no, that is not the proper plural in Greek for either word…

Anonymous

10:34

But he did say "tongue-in-cheek"

Damkerng T.

Ah, that octopus again!

nods

Anonymous

Maybe it's intended as a joke. But once again I find myself confused!

Anonymous

The process of lexicalization importantly interferes with this idea

Anonymous

It doesn't make any sense to place a plural affix in the middle of a lexical word, one which cannot be productively derived in English

Damkerng T.

Ah, I think that's the term for the idea that words should have the same meaning as their roots.

Anonymous

10:35

(If the plural affix goes there, it's because it already did before it was lexicalized)

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Hmmph. The Wikipedia article on lexicalization is surprisingly useless.

Damkerng T.

Probably not entirely useless, I think. At least the first sentence gives me a good start. (I just looked it up.)

Anonymous

The basic idea is that something is lexicalized once you need to give it its own dictionary entry. Japanese hayai is an adjective meaning 'quick/early', and the derived form o-hayō is an interjection meaning 'Good morning!'

Anonymous

So we say the latter is lexicalized as ohayō

Damkerng T.

10:38

Ahh

Anonymous

It goes in the dictionary with its own entry and it's taught to people separately.

Damkerng T.

I didn't know that ohayou is related to haiyaku.

Anonymous

Well,

Damkerng T.

Wait, maybe I just confused myself again!

(You said hayai not haiya.)

Anonymous

Hayai, hundreds of years ago, had the honorific form ohayaku gozarimasu, and the /k/ and /r/ dropped out, leaving ohayau gozaimasu, and the regular sound change from /au/ to /oo/ applied, leaving ohayoo gozaimasu

Anonymous

10:40

This was abbreviated to ohayoo, which is written おはよう

Anonymous

Even though the /u/ became /o/ due to sound change, the lingering effects of the etymological spelling principle keep it written う instead of お

Damkerng T.

nods -- By the way, one of my friends had an Ohayoo alarm clock! Don't know if she still has it.

Anonymous

Neat! :-)

Anonymous

Ohayoo is a cute word.

Damkerng T.

Indeed!

Anonymous

10:42

►

Damkerng T.

Cute!

Popopopo!

Anonymous

Ooh, jogloran signed up for ELL!

Anonymous

Just a note that it's not true that all Latin words ending in -us have plurals in -i. Words like status or nexus, which belong to the fourth declension in Latin, in modern English take native English plural endings (i.e. statuses, nexuses). — jogloran 23 mins ago

Anonymous

Probably just to leave this one comment, but in any case, I like his contributions to SE in general :-)

Damkerng T.

Ahh

I can't remember his avatar.

The context does not match the sentence: क्या यहा कोई बैठा हुआ है| According to the context, the person should say... "Nobody is around, you can carry on...". क्या यहा कोई बैठा हुआ है can be translated in English as - Is anyone sitting here? OR Is this seat occupied? I'm from India, you can discuss in Hindi if it's more convenient for you. — Maulik V 2 hours ago

Not to question his translation (because I can't speak Hindi or Panjabi anyway), but Is anyone sitting here? is an odd question, I think.

Hmm... Maybe I'm thinking to much. It mightn't be that odd.

Anonymous

10:50

Actually, "Is anyone sitting here?" is a fine question.

Anonymous

If you think about it literally, it seems to be quite odd.

Damkerng T.

nods

I didn't visualize it the first time.

Anonymous

But it really means something like "Is this spot reserved for someone?" For example, if they were sitting there, but they've gotten up to go to the bathroom and will come back in a few minutes, they're still "sitting" there in the long view

Damkerng T.

A Thai lit. translation for that question will sound very, very weird. :-)

Anonymous

In Japanese, sitting is encoded as a punctual event. It takes no time.

Anonymous

10:53

You can force a marginal reading in which it takes some time, but probably a rather short amount of time unless you're capable of placing your behind on a chair very slowly :-)

Damkerng T.

Now I'm curious. Is Does anyone sit here? in the same context (for Is anyone sitting here?) natural?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. In a different context it could work. "Does anyone sit here?" "My sister sits here every Thursday to watch the Lakers game."

Anonymous

But it's not something people generally ask.

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I see. I guessed right!

Thanks!

Anonymous

Someone somewhere has probably said it in some context or another :-)

Damkerng T.

10:56

Gotta go. Be back later.

Anonymous

See you!

Damkerng T.

It's nice to chat with you again. See you!

infinitesimal

Later pal.

Anonymous

See, infinitesimal was here all along.

Anonymous

infinitesimally.

infinitesimal

10:58

:-)

MARamezani

13:54

Let's say hi to see who responds: Hi!

Man_From_India

hey hi :-)

MARamezani

I just wanted to inform that I'm here now! Back from class, but a bit disappointed.

Man_From_India

why? :-O

how is ur class by the way?

MARamezani

It was supposed to be a class for olympiad topics, but..

...it turned to out to be a kindergarten!

Man_From_India

interesting!! how?

MARamezani

13:58

I felt I was sitting there among walnuts! :(

I've studied university chemistry, and the class was about pre-high school kids.

Learning the basics of moles and stuff.

The point is, I have an olympiad tomorrow and I just wasted 3 hours of precious time.

Man_From_India

u can't help sometimes :-)

ohh...all the best for ur exam

MARamezani

Thanks.

I shouldn't have posted it here, but I felt sharing it will cool down my anger.

Man_From_India

@snailboat I know it's quite late there, so I am not expecting an answer soon :-)

is the following an example of absolute construction

3

Q: Sentence structure - what 's role of "WITH"?

Here's a sentence written on my textbook. And I'd like to reorganize this sentence to make sure I understand more deeply. At work it's common for colleagues to go to a restaurant for lunch, with some eateries going to great lengths to atrract customers by handing out flyers in the streets...

sentence-construction

> At work it's common for colleagues to go to a restaurant for lunch, with some eateries going to great lengths to atrract customers by handing out flyers in the streets and having special offers at lunch time only.

MARamezani

Let me think about it.

Snailboat's probably sleep.

Man_From_India

great help thanks

but if u can help that is also fine

MARamezani

14:11

Hmm. "With" makes me really doubtful. Give me some more minutes.

It seems so. As put by here (look at the examples) it's feasible for an absolute phrase to be the reason of the clause it modifies.

Man_From_India

thanks for the link. Let me read it. I need to read more about absolute construction.

MARamezani

Me too. I've seen it in a bunch of readings, but as I understood what they meant, I just passed on, not caring about the construction.

That's too rash.

Well, you still have to wait for an expert's idea on that one. I may be wrong.

Anonymous

14:26

@Man_From_India No, it has a syntactic link to the main clause (the comitative preposition with)

Anonymous

In an absolute construction, the clause which is subordinate in form has no syntactic link to the main clause

MARamezani

:O :O :O :O :O :O

Anonymous

It is simply put next to the main clause, often before it

Man_From_India

But as StoneyB answered, it acts as the subordinate of the main clause. But there is no particular link between the two part ;-O

MARamezani

What time is it there, @snailboat?!

Anonymous

14:29

@MARamezani 6:26

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Well, it is at least the complement of a preposition

Anonymous

And that preposition phrase is the supplement, rather than the clause itself

MARamezani

Are you kidding me? Are you a robot or something?! Or is it common for snailboats?

Man_From_India

can u please show it more?

I can't find the preposition phrase. Please help :-(

Anonymous

[ with [ some eateries going to great lengths to attract customers by handing out flyers in the streets and having special offers at lunch time only ] ]

Anonymous

14:36

The preposition heading the phrase is with.

Anonymous

The rest of it is a complement to that preposition.

Damkerng T.

Hey, good news! I can cut down my electricity bill by about 100 units in January! (1 unit is 1 kWh.)

Anonymous

-

Anonymous

[ with [ some eateries going to great lengths to attract customers by [ handing out flyers in the streets ] [ and having special offers at lunch time only ] ] ]

Damkerng T.

And I didn't even really fully use my Pis! (Sorry for the interruption.)

Anonymous

14:37

Oh, wait, let me edit that.

MARamezani

That makes sense. So it can't be an absolute clause, right?

Good for you, @DamkerngT.!

Such tricks never work here!

If it is a trick.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani If I keep doing that for one year, I might even be able to buy a CGEL!

MARamezani

Economical!

Damkerng T.

Wait, how much does a CGEL cost? Oh, yes. It's about a year indeed!

MARamezani

@snailboat knows.

Hello @abdelazizmaroc!

Anonymous

14:40

google.com/shopping/product/…

Anonymous

$177

Anonymous

(used)

Damkerng T.

I was able to cut down my electricity bill by about 25 USD in January.

Anonymous

Ah, here's a better link: abebooks.com/…-gmc--PLA-_-v01

Anonymous

Or it would be if it didn't break when I pasted it into chat.

Anonymous

14:41

Ah, well, looks like it works anyway :-)

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. Save it and buy a Lamborghini instead!

Damkerng T.

lol

@snailboat Ah, I guessed it was a preposition phrase, too!

Anonymous

What were the other options?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Not sure. It's unclear in the question, but perhaps the OP could've thought that it's a conjunction.

Man_From_India

oh I lost connection :-(

Damkerng T.

14:45

Yesterday, we discussed if it's possible to replace that with with... umm... with what? I can't remember now!

Man_From_India

@snailboat that is true...but how with-clause is connected to the other part of the sentence? :-O

Damkerng T.

Oh, with hence.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. no that is actually wrong. StoneyB corrected me

Damkerng T.

(Which I thought it wasn't a very good idea.)

Anonymous

@Man_From_India The with-phrase (it is not a clause) is an adjunct

Man_From_India

14:46

I misread it from the dictionary :-(

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Ah, I see. :-)

MARamezani

Guys, why do we get so many problematic posts and edits today?

Damkerng T.

looking...

@MARamezani What do you mean by problematic, anyway?

Man_From_India

@snailboat yes my mistake...but [At work it's common for colleagues to go to a restaurant for lunch] is completely different

no link in meaning

Damkerng T.

If I get it right, this with phrase modifies the whole sentence.

MARamezani

14:49

Firstly, I've dealt with five (or four, my counting is broken :) spam edit suggestions, and now, first posters cause problems with "commenting" answers.

Anonymous

We always get bad answers on ELL.

MARamezani

Now I look like a grumpy old man. :)

Anonymous

As for the spam edits, those crop up from time to time in waves

Anonymous

Aren't you like half my age? Don't call yourself old ;-)

Damkerng T.

Just tell me where the spams are. I'll help eradicate them!

Anonymous

14:50

Yes, you are like half my age.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh, it's too late!

MARamezani

Exactly half?

Anonymous

No, like half.

Anonymous

Like makes the claim slightly fuzzy.

MARamezani

I wonder how old @Man_From_India is.

Man_From_India

14:51

how old r u Ramezan? refraining myself from asking a lady her age ;-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat That's good. I take it that they were all gone. :-)

Man_From_India

26 :-)

Anonymous

It's okay, I put my age on my profile. It's linguistically significant

MARamezani

Dang it. I'm the kid here! :)

Damkerng T.

lol

Man_From_India

14:51

:-)

Damkerng T.

0

Q: Yuppie, DINKs: Acronym or portmanteau?

yuppie is short for Young Urban Professional DINKs is short for Dual Income, No Kids For each of these two words: Is it an acronym or a portmanteau? It sounds to me like they are not real acronyms, not being strictly one letter per word. References appreciated.

acronyms portmanteau

Oh, I've never thought that dink could be an acronym!

Anonymous

Dink isn't.

Anonymous

DINK is!

Anonymous

Apparently.

MARamezani

That's a nice question, IMO.

Damkerng T.

14:52

But don't they have the same meaning?

Anonymous

I haven't collected enough examples of DINK and DINKs to see whether the -s should be considered an inflectional affix attached to the base DINK, or actually part of the abbreviation

Anonymous

Hmm, I don't know. What does dink mean?

Anonymous

We used to have a gerbil named Dinky when I was little.

Anonymous

So I think of gerbils.

MARamezani

I remember once one of my friends said: It's actually USoA!

Anonymous

14:53

To me it sounds like onomatopoeia.

Damkerng T.

A single middle-aged man, no kids, and is a good catch.

Anonymous

@MARamezani Well, if you like, but it's also actually USA.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Were you already familiar with this word?

MARamezani

You gotta admit, USoA is a bit funny!

Damkerng T.

I remember I found this word the first time in one of Crichton's novels.

Anonymous

14:54

Wow!

Damkerng T.

Next, I think.

Anonymous

Well, if the singular form is well-attested, then it seems clear that the -s is just a basic inflectional affix

Majid

What's up MAR. Are you studying? Just one day to Exam.

Anonymous

I'll go Team Comment on that one.

Majid

DO you have stress?

Anonymous

14:57

It seems like the core issue here is the -ie at the end of yuppie (which is a derivational affix added to an acronym), and the -s at the end of DINKs (which seems to be an inflectional affix added to an acronym, given that DINK is also attested). Adding a derivational affix derives a new word, no longer an acronym; adding an inflectional affix does not. So I suppose yuppie is not an acronym, though it's derived from one, and DINKs is an inflected form of an acronym. But sorry, no references. — snailboat 17 secs ago

MARamezani

Hi @Majid.

Majid

Hello, I forgot it again.

MARamezani

@snailboat "Your argument is logical, Houston!"

Anonymous

Thanks, Apollo 11!

Majid

@MARamezani Don't you want to give an answer?

MARamezani

14:58

An answer to "Do you have stress?"

I have a normal statement-like intonation right now. No emphasis on any element.

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