English Language Learners

Anonymous

00:04

@DamkerngT. Seems ungrammatical to me.

Anonymous

It doesn't help that they're varying three different things at once...

Damkerng T.

nods

So we got a weird sentence that one of seemingly creditable users certified as correct.

Anonymous

Have they established themselves as credible?

Damkerng T.

They claimed themselves as a linguist or linguistics student, iirc.

Anonymous

Being a linguistics student does not make someone credible by default :-)

Anonymous

00:17

I don't mean to say anything negative about Justin Greer in particular

Damkerng T.

Indeed. Yet, when someone claims so...

It's hard not to give them some creditability.

Anonymous

Oh, and I don't mean to imply that they're not actually a linguistics student.

Anonymous

Hmm, I think creditability is a pretty rare word

Damkerng T.

Hah!

Anonymous

corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=33782043

Damkerng T.

00:20

Because it's not a word, perhaps.

Anonymous

Well, I'm certain you could find people who say it's not a word.

Damkerng T.

I think I should've used credibility.

Anonymous

Me too! :-)

Damkerng T.

I think it's weird that credibility sounds like something from creditable rather than from credible.

But it's good to know! Thanks!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Does it? To me credibility sounds like it's from credible

Damkerng T.

00:25

Hmm... I guess maybe it's just me.

Which is why I wrote creditability without thinking.

(My idea was creditability ~ something or someone which or whom we can give credits to. Credibility ~ something or someone which or who is believable. And it's about their "ability" to make it so.)

Anonymous

Hmm, creditability is a pretty uncommon word... I assumed you just meant "credible" when you said it

Anonymous

The OED says "The quality of being creditable; a thing creditable; something that ought to be believed although not an article of faith." and it marks the word (rare)

Damkerng T.

Oh! That sounds like it maps to my thoughts rather well!

Anonymous

I would avoid the word though

Damkerng T.

I would too.

0

A: cut-out-and-keep -- meaning?

It's a rather dated usage, more popular a century ago than today. The reference is to cutting out (perhaps only part of) a page from a magazine/newspaper (daily/weekly/monthly publications which would normally be thrown away after being read). Obviously nothing physical needs to be kept in OP's ...

Oh, cut-out-and-keep is actually a dated usage!

And I thought it was an ad hoc!

Anonymous

00:40

Like cut-and-paste I guess?

Damkerng T.

It's more like cut-it-out-and-then-keep-it-in-a-scrapbook, according to FF + my imagination.

Anonymous

Well, I don't mean with the same meaning

Anonymous

I mean the same type of phrase :-)

Anonymous

Although I guess the meaning would be pretty close.

Anonymous

Since cutting something out and keeping it in a scrapbook is, well, cutting and pasting? :-)

Damkerng T.

00:42

Ah, yes. I related it to cut-and-paste, which is the reason I wondered why I hadn't heard cut-out-and-keep before.

Anonymous

I don't understand why one would imply the other

Anonymous

But yeah

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I would use cut-and-paste with my scrapbook activity too!

Anonymous

They're probably the same sort of phrase

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I don't think the scrapbook part is actually implied though

Anonymous

00:43

@DamkerngT. I have seen people claim to be linguists on SE that, well

Damkerng T.

It's hard not to think of scrapbooking, reading "cutting out a page from a magazine or newspaper".

Anonymous

I would not call linguists myself

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It could be a little recipe quick-reference you tape to the fridge :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Mine would be just notes. :-)

But I can imagine those little recipes on the fridge!

Anonymous

00:45

Do you do scrapbooking?

Anonymous

I did once, but I soured on the concept

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Not really. It was a bit too tedious for me.

I think scrapbooking on the web makes more sense.

(I used to use that ScrapBook FF extension for a big while!)

@snailboat Oh, wait. What kind of scrapbook you were talking about?

Damkerng T.

05:51

0

Q: What does 'principle' mean in 'reasons of principle'?

This is the heading for http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/torture/ethics/wrong_1.shtml. How do you determine/deduce the right definition for this noun? Which of the following is it? 1(.0). A fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behaviour or for a ...

meaning-in-context

I hope we will have a meta post that warns our learners to avoid becoming such literal.

Damkerng T.

07:43

in Japanese Language, 2 mins ago, by 3 to 5 business days

2

Awfully cute!

fahdijbeli

08:48

morning

this is my room

user116848

10:43

@snailboat Thanks for the vote ;

user116848

@DamkerngT. Cute!

user116848

starred

Freddy

13:18

@fahdijbeli Yes this is your room, enjoy :-)

fahdijbeli

:)

yes

Amit Joki

14:25

@DamkerngT. any name for something which is like water and can take any shape and turn invisible?

Damkerng T.

15:04

@AmitJoki Sounds like Morpheus!

@fahdijbeli Hello!

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. ah! Sounds good!

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki Some more possible names: Monroe, Aquarius, Aquapheus, Invisibilicis

Amit Joki

Marilyn Monroe? laughs

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki Hehe. I just found a school named Monroe located in a town called Hidden River. :=)

Amit Joki

ah!

But it is a male..

Damkerng T.

15:17

Monroe as a first name sounds male to me.

Amit Joki

Morpheus sounds good, and as far my ears are concerned, Monroe sounds feminine, but that might be largely because of Marilyn :)

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Ice Boy

15:30

►

he looks like a real pretty boy here^

Damkerng T.

@IceBoy It's not a surprise that he became the king of rock so easily!

Ice Boy

@DamkerngT. agreed :-)

but, alas he suffered much the same fate as the king of pop :(

Damkerng T.

Sadly. -- nods

Amit Joki

how @IceBoy?

Ice Boy

how what?

Amit Joki

15:45

"but, alas he suffered much the same fate as the king of pop :("

Ice Boy

do you know who the king of pop is?

pop = popular music

Amit Joki

Yup. MJ. I suppose he died of some overdose of drugs.

Ice Boy

so did Elvis

Amit Joki

@IceBoy ah!

Ice Boy

same fate

Amit Joki

15:59

don't know how they could succumb to it, when millions are addicted to them or their music

Ice Girl

4

Q: "Doesn't talk please VS Don't talk please"

Why can't we use "doesn't talk" instead of "don't talk"? when referring to he/she why is "doesn't talk" wrong? e.g. When you are talking in class and your teacher said: "don't talk please." Why didn't she use "doesn't talk" in that case?

meaning word-request usage

Anonymous

16:19

@DamkerngT. Ah, amorphous!

Anonymous

Morpheus is a nice name

Anonymous

Morpheus (mythology)

Morpheus (/ˈmɔrfiəs/ or /ˈmɔrfjuːs/) is a god of dreams who appears in Ovid's Metamorphoses. Morpheus has the ability to mimic any human form and appear in dreams. His true semblance is that of a winged daemon, imagery shared with many of his siblings. Starting in the medieval period, the name Morpheus began to stand generally for the god of dreams or of sleep. == In Ovid == The Roman poet Ovid states in his Metamorphoses that Morpheus is a son of Somnus and reports that he had a thousand siblings, with Morpheus, Phobetor and Phantasos being merely the most prominent among them. == Notes == �...

Anonymous

From this, we get the modern word morphine

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Which is illegal in most places!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Is it really?

Damkerng T.

16:20

I don't know for sure, but I think so.

Ice Girl

very bad picture

:(

Anonymous

Here in the U.S., heroin is illegal but morphine is legal

Anonymous

Morphine is used regularly in hospitals

Ice Girl

:(

Anonymous

Feel free to feel all the shame you want

Anonymous

16:22

I have none to feel at the moment, so you might have to pull double duty

Anonymous

Do you also find the Sistine Chapel shameful?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, do you know why some languages have a gold star in front of them in Wikipedia pages?!

Ice Boy

now, now Ms boat let's try to empathize with those who come from very conservative countries :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I do not

Damkerng T.

I just noticed this in the page: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovid.

Anonymous

16:24

Ah, mouse over the star and you'll find your answer

Damkerng T.

Latina, Magyar, and another language its name difficult to type have it!

Oh!

Now I wonder why I didn't think of that!

Anonymous

Latin, Hungarian, and Ukrainian

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, this means that I can learn Latin by reading Wikipedia pages, if I want to!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. There is an absolutely huge amount of Latin online

Damkerng T.

Hehe, I just found something funny on Wikipedia. Magyar (Hungarian) has a star for it on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovid, but not on another page, la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publius_Ovidius_Naso, even though both link to the same page: hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publius_Ovidius_Naso!

Anonymous

16:32

@DamkerngT. Weird!

Amit Joki

16:44

Guys, is this wrong - "Student held stabbing in Saitama, "wanted to kill anyone""

Anonymous

Why did you add a comma?

Amit Joki

in comparison with "Student held in Saitama stabbing ‘wanted to kill anyone’"

@snailboat should not it be there?

Anonymous

That's headlinese. Let's restore the missing function words and make everything explicit: "A student who was held (for questioning) in a Saitama stabbing (said that they) 'wanted to kill anyone'"

Damkerng T.

"Student held in Saitama stabbing ‘wanted to kill anyone’" == The student who was held in Saitama stabbed, ‘wanted to kill anyone’

Anonymous

That's what it means, although the words in parentheses aren't actually omitted, just added to help explain the meaning

Amit Joki

16:46

ah! Stabbed. I thought stabbing someone with a something

Anonymous

No, not stabbed

Damkerng T.

He did, with his words.

Anonymous

Stab is not a reporting verb here

Anonymous

Stabbing is a noun derived from the gerund form of the verb stab, referring to a crime

Anonymous

A woman was stabbed to death

Anonymous

16:48

They did not stab anyone with their words

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I read it as a pun, which should be what they tried to get at.

Anonymous

There was no pun

Amit Joki

what's pun?

Damkerng T.

I see.

Anonymous

Because that would require you to interpret stabbing with a different part of speech

Damkerng T.

16:49

@AmitJoki When you use one word with the intent of multiple meanings.

@snailboat Which I did.

Anonymous

And require you to parse the sentence wrong

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. I did that too..

Damkerng T.

I still think that someone can stab another someone with their words.

Anonymous

Sure, but it didn't happen here

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

16:50

Using stab as a reporting verb would today be considered a said-bookism, by the way

Amit Joki

Stabbing with a knife? "He stabbed her with a knife"

I thought the stab which conveyed the above meaning

Anonymous

It does appear that she was stabbed with a knife

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki That would be the more common usage of stab.

Anonymous

@AmitJoki Yes, stabbing in the headline refers to the crime

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. yup. Then, doesn't my headline stand corrected?

Anonymous

16:52

"[A student who was held in a Saitama stabbing] 'wanted to kill anyone'"

Damkerng T.

No, even though I read it as saying, it still sounds wrong to me: Student held stabbing in Saitama, "wanted to kill anyone"

Anonymous

The first part is the subject, which contains a relative clause, and the second part is the predicate (though it is quoted)

Damkerng T.

> 1. [A student who was held in a Saitama stabbing] 'wanted to kill anyone'
2. [A student who was held in Saitama (the place or the crime or the case, whichever the headline wants)] stabbed when asked, '(I) wanted to kill anyone'

I accepted both, and I actually read it both ways at the same time.

Amit Joki

How I had interpreted it -

Anonymous

It's actually pretty unambiguous.

Damkerng T.

16:55

I think 1 is the safest, though I want some punctuation mark in there.

Amit Joki

"A student was caught stabbing someone in Saitama, wanted to kill anyone"

Damkerng T.

They don't normally drop essential words. (Like caught)

Amit Joki

okay... so I was wrong with my interpretation of the sentence, I suppose

Guys, a phrase-request

It seems that I use the word "it seemed" very often in my blog.. should I be worried about it? If yes, what else can I use in place of the quoted words? @snailboat @DamkerngT.

Anonymous

It's usually hard to give anyone a drop-in replacement for any word.

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki There are several alternatives, but all of them would still basically mean "it seems", I suppose.

Anonymous

17:04

When people ask me what words to use in place of such-and-such, I never know what to say.

Anonymous

Every word is different.

Damkerng T.

The most basic one is perhaps "it appears".

Or "it looks like".

Amit Joki

But, is it a thing for me to worry at all?

Anonymous

thesaurus.com/browse/seem

Amit Joki

Like should I be worried that I'm using those words often?

Damkerng T.

17:05

@AmitJoki That's hard to tell, I think. :-)

Amit Joki

might be @DamkerngT.

Anonymous

You can find a list of related words in a thesaurus

Anonymous

But in general they won't be exact matches

Damkerng T.

Hemingway writes a lot of long sentences which are basically R and S and T and U and V and W and X and Y and Z, and it's his strength rather than his weakness.

Amit Joki

of course, but should I be restricting myself, as the quoted word comes naturally to my mind at the time of writing .@snailboat

Anonymous

17:07

@AmitJoki I can't tell without looking at your writing

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. I didn't understand what those alphabets mean

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki They are clauses.

Amit Joki

what are they? I know you will be annoyed :)

Anonymous

@AmitJoki By the way, alphabets is Indian English

Anonymous

In American / British English, we would call those letters

Amit Joki

17:10

@snailboat My Writing - Today's draft. Will not point to links
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Both Prof. Diddikins and Bolt shouted, "What the hell is going on?" in an amazing coordination of words. The blue eyes of his, seemed to connect with jet black eyes of Bolt, as they stood watching each other for a while.

The place where Bolt was keeping his foot was kind of slippery. Prof. Diddikins was quick to know what it was. He used, what looked like laser and pointed its bright red beam of light on the slippery substance.

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki A simple sentence has one clause.

Anonymous

That's not very heavy use of seem

Anonymous

I wouldn't worry about it in that sample

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. are you talking about "independent" and the "dependent" clause?

Damkerng T.

I couldn't find a seem in there, it seems.

Anonymous

17:12

I doubt most readers would notice you used seem twice there, at least if that was all they read

Amit Joki

or subordinate or principle clause? @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

Oh, there are two seemed!

Amit Joki

yup! @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki All of them are clauses.

@AmitJoki I had to "search" for them.

Amit Joki

why did you quote "search"? To emphasize what?

Damkerng T.

17:14

That I had to "search".

Amit Joki

lol

Damkerng T.

Rather than being able to notice them when I read it.

Amit Joki

If someone notices, they'll ward off that citing my lack of vocabulary, I suppose @snailboat

:)

Damkerng T.

> The trunks of the trees too were dusty and the leaves fell early that year and we saw the troops marching along the road and the dust rising and leaves, stirred by the breeze, falling and the soldiers marching and afterward the road bare and white except for the leaves.

That's one of his sentences that is not very long.

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. thought it was his longest sentence

Damkerng T.

17:18

I remember his longest sentence from the same novel is about 8 times longer.

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. @snailboat I published the draft.

Damkerng T.

Yay!

Amit Joki

"Both Prof. Diddikins and Bolt shouted, "What the hell is going on?" in an amazing coordination of words. The blue eyes of his, seemed to connect with jet black eyes of Bolt, as they stood watching each other for a while.

The place where Bolt was keeping his foot was kind of slippery. Prof. Diddikins was quick to know what it was. He used a what looked like laser and pointed its bright red beam of light on the slippery substance.

There it was, a semi-transparent thing, which was, well, made up of some liquid. It was as fluent as water in its movements and didn't look like a thing which sc…

is now the usage considered excessive @snailboat @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think shouting GET OUT OF HERE! or GET OUT OF HERE NOW! is more common.

I don't really know if that's really true.

Amit Joki

ah! Yeah.. @DamkerngT.

""I bet, that boy seems trouble!", he said as he giggled his way out of the room. His walk was much adorable than he was! " is that correct?

Damkerng T.

17:33

Probably.

Damkerng T.

17:53

@snailboat I got a weird conversation with Siri today. I said "set alarm to 57 past midnight", and she confirmed that she set my alarm to 12:57 AM tomorrow. I thought that's not right, so I retried, "set alarm to 57 past midnight today", and she said that she couldn't set alarm more than one day ahead, which I think very weird! To recheck everything, I told her "show alarms", and I found that she set the alarm to 12:57 AM today! Very weird!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Ummm :-)

Damkerng T.

I wonder what criteria for tomorrow she had in mind are. :-)

Anonymous

Does that mean that you tried saying it sometime between midnight and 0:57?

Damkerng T.

I did that ten minutes ago!

Anonymous

A-ha!

Damkerng T.

17:57

Oh, she just alerted me!

Anonymous

I didn't know alarms had dates attached

Anonymous

I thought they only had times

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. That is weird!

Anonymous

I just told Siri to set an alarm for 0時55分 and she did! But it's 10:58 here

Damkerng T.

I guess it could be a bit confusing around midnight. :D

Anonymous

18:00

I was thinking of trying after midnight, but I might be asleep then! :-)

Damkerng T.

I was confused by her "tomorrow", I guess.

Anonymous

I just confused Siri by laughing while I tried to set an alarm

Damkerng T.

LOL

Anonymous

I guess you can't set two alarms for the same time

Damkerng T.

I noticed that sometimes I had 4 alarms!

Anonymous

18:03

Aw, it didn't understand 30時

Damkerng T.

And, "clear all alarms" is a very effective way to kill all of them.

Anonymous

I said アラームを全部消してください and it said でも、アラームは1つもセットされていませんよ

Anonymous

"But you don't have any alarms set!"

Damkerng T.

Hahaha!

Anonymous

In Japan, sometimes dates after 24:00 are used

Anonymous

18:04

Like, 25:30 for a late TV show playing the following morning at 1:30 AM

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Anonymous

So 27時00分～30時00分 would be 3am to 6am on the following date

Anonymous

But I can't get the iPhone to accept that, hehe

Damkerng T.

That's very unique, I think.

Ice Boy

and strange

Anonymous

18:06

Eh, it makes sense. It's like eleventy-hundred.

Damkerng T.

trying to figure out 'eleventy-hundred'... Probably 1100.

Anonymous

> Today is my one hundred and eleventh birthday: I am eleventy-one today!

Damkerng T.

Oh! It's that!

Anonymous

I thought you might recognize eleventy :-)

Damkerng T.

I didn't know eleventy, but it does sound cute!

@snailboat What about 120?

Twelfy-hundred? :P

Anonymous

18:08

Twelfty is rare

Ice Boy

sorry, still strange

Anonymous

There's also eleventeen

Ice Boy

:O

Damkerng T.

scratching head :-)

Ice Boy

don't mess with the teens

Anonymous

18:10

Eleventeen is 21, eleventy is 110, twelfty is 120

2

Damkerng T.

Oh, I just typed this into my google box: *eleventeen* meaning

Ice Boy

do they use base 10?

Freddy

Eleventeen (EP)

For the album by Daisy Chainsaw, see Eleventeen (album). Eleventeen is the first recording by the American rock band Eve 6, released in 1996. It is their only EP, and has more of a rock-oriented punk sound than their future releases. This is the only release on which Nick Meyers performs before Tony Fagenson joined the band. == Track listing == All lyrics written by Max Collins, all music composed by Collins, except where noted. Note 1: "Nocturnal Emission" was re-tooled and released on the Eve 6 record Horrorscope as "Nocturnal" Note 2: "Jibba This" is a hidden track which plays after "Nocturnal...

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, that's a nice tigers' trick!

Ice Boy

18:15

oneteen =?= 11

Damkerng T.

@Freddy I don't know anything about Daisy Chainsaw, but it sounds like a nice band.

Anonymous

I don't know anything about them either

Damkerng T.

@IceBoy The opposite of umpteen? :P

Ice Boy

:D

Freddy

You all were talking something about Eleventeen so I just upload it.

@DamkerngT. but yes nice band

Anonymous

18:18

@IceBoy That would make sense!

Anonymous

I was actually just talking about eleventeen, not the song :-)

Damkerng T.

imagining a rock band performing a song named "Twelfty" to eleventy-year-old people...

2

Anonymous

Twelfty is a great word.

Anonymous

Severely underappreciated, that one.

Anonymous

I don't much like the twelvety variant, though.

Damkerng T.

18:23

Oh, there is twelvety, too?!

Freddy

eleventy is 110 then twelvety should be 120. But 120 is twelfty

Anonymous

Yes, but twelfty is better

Anonymous

People write both.

Anonymous

People don't write either very often, though. They should be considered strictly nonstandard

Freddy

See I got it, lol

Anonymous

18:26

If you're trying to write Standard English, you should replace eleventy-one with one hundred and eleven (or such).

Anonymous

I was assuming everyone participating here knew that, but I figured I'd say it anyway... :-)

Anonymous

Just to be safe.

Freddy

If i write this then my maths teacher will say his regular dialogue "This are all not jokes"

Damkerng T.

@Freddy You could reply, "It don't matter." :P

Freddy

:p

Damkerng T.

18:32

0

Q: off vs of vs off of - Can they be interchanged

A colleague wrote the following to me : I am making a conscious endeavor to clear my mind off trivial thoughts. Though I read and understood the meaning, what rang a bell was the usage of "off". I have searched online and it appears to me that all of the below are correct: I am m...

prepositions prepositional-phrase homophones homographs

> I am making a conscious endeavor to clear my mind off trivial thoughts.

An interesting sentence!

Freddy

@DamkerngT. "I am making a conscious endeavor to clear my mind off of trivial thoughts." It may be grammatically correct, but doesn't sound's good.

Damkerng T.

@Freddy I'm not sure, but it sounds exactly like what the speaker wanted to say.

Anonymous

18:51

2

Q: "in eleven minutes" / "over eleven minutes"

I just updated a status saying that 'a lot could happen over eleven minutes' I know that it should normally be written 'in eleven minutes' but we had an incident which made eleven minutes look like quite a long time and I thought using 'over' instead of 'in' would emphasize the length of time. ...

phrase-usage

Anonymous

This is a good question

Damkerng T.

Aktionsart!

Anonymous

Onion soup for me!

Damkerng T.

I don't know what you meant by onion soup, but I like onion soup, especially the French onion soup.

Anonymous

Soup with onion in it.

Anonymous

18:56

No crouton, though

Anonymous

The first time I had French onion soup, I was at a restaurant

Anonymous

I learned then that "crouton" could mean "giant piece of bread in your soup"!

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Anonymous

Before that, I thought croutons were always small cubes

Anonymous

Wikipedia says: "Most people consider croutons to come invariably in the shape of small cubes, but they can actually be of any size and shape, up to a very large slice."

Damkerng T.

18:58

I had it the first time in Frankfurt. It looked so ugly (because of the spillover which made me unable to tell what was in the soup), but it was so delicious!

Anonymous

Aw!

Anonymous

I had it some place in America, I think, but I don't remember where

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