English Language Learners

user116848

03:24

Why are we using "would have been" here instead of "would be" @snailboat

user116848

accaglobal.com/content/dam/acca/global/PDF-students/acca/p1/…

user116848

"She may have reasoned that it 'would have been' against her own
economic self interest to disclose the worst case scenario"

user116848

I just want to know about the English of this sentence because I would write this sentence with ".......would be...."

user116848

Remeber to 'Ping' me

user116848

See ya

user116848

03:29

It is from my exams question.

Damkerng T.

04:17

@DamkerngT. By now I understand, thank you. Why don't you post your comments as an aswer? — Dmitry Fucintv 23 mins ago

Hmm... Because I want something better than what I already know, I guess. Sometimes I don't quite understand myself either!

Anonymous

We can turn the sentence around to get a basic "If A, then B" order

Anonymous

1. I'll give you 100 pounds if it'll help you to go on holiday.
2. If it'll help you to go on holiday, (then) I'll give you 100 pounds

Anonymous

And then we can expand it

Anonymous

3. If giving you 100 pounds will help you to go on holiday, (then) I'll give you 100 pounds

Anonymous

Of course, you don't need me to explain this

Anonymous

04:24

I'm just doing it out of habit :-)

Anonymous

Their question appears to be about distinguishing two kinds of if-clauses

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I like your explanation better. :-)

I just bought another insurance and I had to answer some questions related to money laws in the US!

It was weird to me but the agent said that there are many cases of money laundering happened before, so it's become part of the standard questions just recently.

Damkerng T.

07:00

@Arrowfar Though I'm not snailboat, afaict, using would have been there is not wrong. Neither is would be. (I prefer would be myself, fwiw.)

Ice Boy

07:12

I agree with Damkerng.

user116848

07:24

@DamkerngT. hi Damk

user116848

@DamkerngT. okay, so what would "would have been" mean in my sentence above?

user116848

Shall I ask it on the main site? I think it will be duped out.

user116848

But I can't find any related question here with the same problem I have.

Damkerng T.

You could it you wanted to. I think it's a good idea.

user116848

okay

user116848

07:29

But how would you interpret "would have been" here?

Damkerng T.

Iirc, would have been can be used in any time spheres for things you know not true.

user116848

@DamkerngT. Any related example?

Damkerng T.

"It would be nice to go to New Zealand next month."

But then, for some reason, we can't go there anymore.

"It would have been nice to go to New Zealand next month."

user116848

Yeah.

user116848

@DamkerngT. Is it the past tense of "will have been" in my example above? Because if it is then it is very easy to understand.

user116848

07:33

snail didn't answer me :(

Damkerng T.

What would you make of it if it were the past tense of "will have been"?

user116848

Then it will be easy. For example: "I think I will have been gone by Tuesday"

Damkerng T.

Oh, I thought you meant your excerpt. :-)

user116848

To convert in the past would be: "I thought I would have been gone by Tuesday"

user116848

@DamkerngT. Yeah that. No?

Damkerng T.

07:35

"I think I will have been gone by Tuesday" sounds like another context.

user116848

btw "I thought I would have been gone by Tuesday" is the correct past tense of "I think I will have been gone by Tuesday"?

user116848

Or am I mistaken?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think you can read it that way...

But it might sound a little odd if the Tuesday hasn't come yet.

user116848

yeah

Damkerng T.

Probably not that odd.

It's a bit difficult because I was forced to think backwardly.

user116848

07:39

Yes, it is difficult :) haha

Damkerng T.

(From sentence to context, instead of from context to meaning)

user116848

I mean to think about the grammar of these structures :)

Damkerng T.

Not that.

It's like you found a piece of paper on the floor written, "Meet me tonight."

And you have to imagine, "Who is this 'me'? And what night?"

user116848

Exactly. Context would help a lot.

Damkerng T.

(Presumably, they knew 'where' they would meet each other. :-)

user116848

07:42

Still I can't seem to figure out what my sentence above mean.
> She may have reasoned that it 'would have been' against her own economic self interest to disclose the worst case scenario

Damkerng T.

I think you could think that they shifted "it would be" to "it would have been" to match "she may have reasoned that".

user116848

I see

user116848

@DamkerngT. I makes sense. So 'would be' can really be shifted to 'would have been'?

Damkerng T.

"She may have reasoned that" invites you to start thinking in the "what if" mode.

Basically, everything inside that thought may or may not be true.

Which is why I think both would be and would have been are possible.

user116848

okay

Damkerng T.

07:49

Imo, writers who use "would have been" would think of this "would be/have been" in "what if" mode.

user116848

So, do you think this question will be duped out in the main site? Shall I ask?

Damkerng T.

I think it's a great question.

user116848

okay :)

Damkerng T.

Kinzel B asked tons of modality questions; I think none is exactly like yours.

Damkerng T.

08:08

> Strike could think of little he wanted to do less, especially if it involved the hyperactive boy sitting on his lap and perhaps kicking his right knee.

> ell.stackexchange.com/q/36762/3281

No wonder why computer software knows that Rowling writes that.

user116848

0

Q: She may have reasoned that it 'would have been' against her own economic self interest

She may have reasoned that it would have been against her own economic self interest to disclose the worst case scenario Source My question is: In this sentence why are we using "would have been" instead of "would be"? Because if I wrote the same sentence I'd write it with ".....would be...

grammar

Damkerng T.

Oh, you chose to ask it on ELU!

user116848

I asked there because I have asked a similar confusing sentence on ELL once and didn't find good answers.

Damkerng T.

Asking this kind of question on ELU is like playing roulette. :-)

Well, we should know the result soon enough.

user116848

Yeah.

user116848

09:49

@DamkerngT. I guess I didn't shot myself playing Russian Roulette :-)

user116848

There are good days and bad days at ELU main site. It's a good day for me :-)

user116848

I guess when the 'big guys' on ELU are there they 'close' and 'mark duplicate' questions a lot. I better not say any of those names. At least my question didn't get transferred to ELL. I hope it doesn't too in the future.

Maulik V

Hello @Arrowfar

user116848

@MaulikV Hi!

Maulik V

How do I say this?

user116848

09:59

Sorry?

Maulik V

Taking birth earlier than yours is not an achievement

I mean to say if you are born in 1980 and I in 1960

It's not an achievement

user116848

@MaulikV But your English is way better than me :)

Maulik V

But I'm stuck with this!

user116848

I see

Maulik V

Taking birth earlier to yours is not an achievement

not sure about 'to yours'

user116848

10:01

It seems okay to me.

Maulik V

Even to me!

Okai!

Thanks for the nod

;)

user116848

Sure :)

Anonymous

16:49

@Arrowfar You're too modest―your English is actually quite good.

Anonymous

@Arrowfar I started reading the passage, but I decided I didn't want to spend as much time as answering it would require at that time

Anonymous

Then I saw that you asked on ELU, so I didn't need to come back to it

user116848

@snailboat Thanks snail! :)

user116848

Yes, I asked it on ELU after asking it here.

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar I'm happy for you! I like the comments.

user116848

16:55

@DamkerngT. Thanks! I also accepted the answer I got at ELU. The answerer gave a very good answer. Plus it was very detailed.

user116848

Also the person who gave the answer is a English graduate. I saw in their profile :)

Anonymous

His profile says "I'm a TEFL-teaching, crossword-guzzling postgrad linguistics student."

Anonymous

Although his name ends in -ia, he's male rather than female

user116848

Yeah :)

user116848

So, he must have a graduate degree in linguist, right?

Anonymous

17:00

No.

user116848

But it says: "postgrad linguistics student"

Anonymous

Yes

Anonymous

So he has some sort of graduate degree

Anonymous

We have no idea what it's in

Anonymous

Unless he tells us

user116848

17:00

Ah, I see :)

Anonymous

It could be, for example, an English degree

user116848

Yeah, I guessed that due to the word "linguists"

Anonymous

Linguistics modifies student

Anonymous

We only know what they're studying now, not what they were studying before

user116848

I see

user116848

17:03

So, I would be a bad detective lol

user116848

I can't tell much about people :)

Anonymous

Well, it's fair to guess that they were studying something language-related before

Anonymous

The profile just doesn't tell us so

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar Stats or statuses could be mere illusions.

Anonymous

That's true too, although I tend to take people at their word unless I see a major conflict between what they say and what I see

Damkerng T.

17:07

nods

user116848

@snailboat So, how can you tell that the person is a 'male'. The name he is using refers to some kind of tree :) I can't be sure whether they are male or female.

Anonymous

I've seen people call themselves linguists who I would not call linguists

Anonymous

@Arrowfar He said so.

user116848

Oh, I see

Anonymous

Until then, I assumed it was a female name

Anonymous

17:08

I was wrong!

user116848

Me too :-)

user116848

In every new chat room that I go to some folks think that I am some sort of archer :-)

Anonymous

Around here, names ending in -a and especially -ia tend to be female

Anonymous

Yeah! I wondered that myself until you told me otherwise :-)

user116848

:D

Anonymous

17:09

I haven't done archery in a long time

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar LOL

user116848

I like the sport too

Anonymous

babynames.allparenting.com/babynames/Ideas/…

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What do you hear when you listen to this recording? quarplet.com/recording.wav

Damkerng T.

A moment.

zudei-yosh'duna

I guess if this is Japanese (which I think it is), the latter part might be yoshidena.

Anonymous

17:15

I'll give you a hint: the first and second part are the same word, with yo in the middle

Damkerng T.

Oh! Same word?

Anonymous

When you write sh', that accurately reflects the pronunciation (the vowel is missing), but in Japanese it's written し nonetheless

Damkerng T.

I give up. I mean, unless I have more Japanese ngrams in my brain, that is the best I can tell.

There are a few phonemes that could have more than one possibility, but to resolve that reliably, I would need to acquire more speech patterns of Japanese.

This reminds me of myself transcribing Stargate!

I found myself transcribing a lot of utterances in some made-up alien language (which was supposed to be related to some other ancient language had been used in Egypt).

Anonymous

17:30

Ah! I was curious to see how someone used to listening to English would transcribe it

Anonymous

The d you heard was actually a Japanese r, which sounds rather similar to the American English flapped t in water

Anonymous

Well, actually, let me say the correct word first: しつれん

Anonymous

Phonemically it's /situreɴ/

Damkerng T.

Oh, and ん became na at the end!

Anonymous

I think that because it was relatively fast and because the vowel in し was missing, the sh and ts merged together for you

Damkerng T.

17:36

Oh, I was wrong! What I thought of na is actually /reɴ/!

Anonymous

Ah, I see!

Damkerng T.

/s(h)itureɴyos(h)itureɴ/ -> zudei-yosh'duna!

/s(h)it/ -> z, /reɴ/ -> dei, /t/ -> d, /reɴ/ -> na

Anonymous

It should have been something like /situreɴ yo, situreɴ/ → [ɕːtsɯɾẽɰ̃ːjo, ɕːtsɯɾẽɴː]

Damkerng T.

[ɕːts] -> z!

Anonymous

The part I was most interested in was the /reɴ/ before /yo/

Anonymous

17:40

Because ん /ɴ/ assimilates to the place of articulation of the following sound

Anonymous

Before vowels and semivowels it becomes [ɰ̃ː]

Damkerng T.

nods

It sounds just like a long vowel!

Anonymous

A "long nasalized dorso-velar semivowel"

Damkerng T.

A "long nasalized dorso-velar semivowel"!

Anonymous

That's what Vance calls it

Anonymous

17:42

It's one of the hardest sounds for me to hear

Anonymous

So when I heard this, I heard しつれい rather than しつれん the first time

Anonymous

Which is a different word! :-)

Anonymous

しつれい 'rudeness' as in しつれいします 'excuse me'

Anonymous

しつれん 'broken heart'

Damkerng T.

I can hear the quality of the vowel changes a bit during its pronunciation. Oh, I should remember that you told me once that Japanese vowels won't glide.

@snailboat One phoneme changes everything!

Anonymous

17:43

@DamkerngT. Listening to it over and over, my brain started picking up the /ɴ/ pretty quickly

Damkerng T.

Yay!

Anonymous

But!

Anonymous

I might miss it again in the future :-)

Anonymous

The structuralist linguists of the mid-20th century had a method for this

Anonymous

Which is drilling people over and over and over on recordings of sounds they need to distinguish

Damkerng T.

17:44

I don't like that method much.

Because I'm rather sure next time when I hear the same phoneme it'll be a little different from those I have heard.

Anonymous

I've never done it

Anonymous

I was curious if you would hear it as an n or a long vowel sound

Anonymous

To be fair, it is a long vowel sound, sort of. It's a long nasalized vowel sound.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

The actual long vowel sound would also be slightly different in quality, because it wouldn't be [ɰ]

Anonymous

17:47

But that's a pretty subtle distinction...

Anonymous

Japanese speakers are really good at listening for nasalized vowel sounds.

Damkerng T.

I trust them on that!

Anonymous

So they can tell the difference between 戦線 /seɴseɴ/ "front lines" and 先生 /seɴsee/ "teacher"

Anonymous

I can hear the difference most of the time, but I still get it wrong sometimes!

Anonymous

It sounds so subtle to my ears

Anonymous

17:49

I posted the recording on the Japanese.SE chat to see what people hear :-)

Anonymous

It's easier to hear the right words if you have context, and I deliberately took that context away.

Damkerng T.

nods -- I like to practice that way too.

Anonymous

Context: quarplet.com/recording2.wav

Damkerng T.

(Because they usually provide us the context in those English tests, I feel like most of them are too easy. I don't mean that my listening is superb. I think the tests are designed not very challengingly for learners. So we can have someone certified well beyond first-rate and yet failed at trivial tasks.)

@snailboat Masaka?!

Hey, I feel like I can guess along!

Anonymous

Hehe!

Anonymous

17:55

Tell me if you want a transcription :-)

Anonymous

I know you aren't working actively on Japanese at the moment

Damkerng T.

"Makoto! Suika!" "Otosan" "Oui-shotoshitanda Mishimoka Tsusukamokoazu"

^First rough of the first part

Anonymous

Ah! Getting close! :-)

Anonymous

Suika is watermelon.

Damkerng T.

"Shitsuren-yo-Shitsuren" "Masaka!" "Miyuki yogenagotoiwanaigo"

@snailboat Oh, I think the Dad said suika twice in the whole clip!

Anonymous

18:01

@DamkerngT. Yes!

Anonymous

It can be difficult if you can't figure out where the word boundaries should be.

Damkerng T.

Indeed!

Freddy

"World is very full of people" is this sentence grammatical?

Damkerng T.

Sounds marginal to me. I wonder what snailboat would think.

Anonymous

@Freddy World needs a determiner.

Anonymous

18:06

Full is what is sometimes called an "absolute" word, one which usually isn't gradable. However, in practice people do sometimes use these words as gradable ("very pregnant", "very full", "very unique")

Anonymous

In this sense of full I think it would be a little strange

Anonymous

"The world is full of people"

Damkerng T.

#2 is colloquial rather than incorrect―at least if we're ignoring the error in capitalization. You're right that people rarely write sentences like #2, and you're also right that there would generally be a pause where the OP has written a comma. — snailboat 1 hour ago

Freddy

Ok so we can't say it is incorrect. I have seen many times writers/poets using this type of stuff.

Damkerng T.

I guess it's rare for a native speaker to say "Do you know", then pause, and then ask "where ..."

Anonymous

18:11

@Freddy Which stuff?

Damkerng T.

Because that would sound like a broken thought, not in the sense of broken English.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Not really. The "Do you know" serves as a kind of introductory phrase, almost like the following phrase is its own sentence being introduced

Anonymous

"Hey, uh, do you know, (intonational break) where's the bathroom?"

Freddy

Like "rarest of all" and i think only "rarest" is enough.

Anonymous

@Freddy Oh, "very pregnant" isn't actually wrong

Damkerng T.

18:13

Oh, that sounds like a different context from the one I was thinking about.

@snailboat nods -- That sounds quite alright.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It is, however, the sort of thing people don't generally write down or produce in planned speech

Anonymous

It's characteristic of spontaneous speech

Freddy

@snailboat Why?

Anonymous

@Freddy I can't tell which message you're responding to.

Freddy

2 mins ago, by snailboat

@Freddy Oh, "very pregnant" isn't actually wrong

Damkerng T.

18:15

I remember that once it was pregnant v. not pregnant.

Anonymous

@Freddy Pregnant is usually non-gradable.

Anonymous

Adding very makes it gradable

Anonymous

Used that way, someone in their last trimester is more pregnant than someone in their first trimester

Anonymous

And semantically, that is related to how apparent it is that they are pregnant

Anonymous

Treating pregnant as gradable, though, is colloquial

Anonymous

18:18

It would not be acceptable in formal English

Anonymous

There are very few adjectives in English that can never be treated as gradable

Freddy

Ok like in comparison we can use it as gradable.

Anonymous

Hmm. I'm a terrible teacher :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Let me look up the do you know thing

Anonymous

It's been a year since last time I looked it up

Damkerng T.

18:20

> She opened the window very wide.
*He turned the light very on.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. "Hey, could you turn on the light?" "Sure." click "Agh, my eyes! Could you turn it a bit less on?" "Heh. Sure."

Damkerng T.

Hah!

Anonymous

That's probably wordplay at best :-)

Damkerng T.

Must be a different kind of switch from these switches I have. :-)

Anonymous

Hey, I've got a dimmer.

Damkerng T.

18:22

Cool!

Anonymous

The idea is that you can coerce things into different semantic categories than they normally belong to under specific circumstances

Anonymous

If the person you're talking to understands what you mean, then you're gold :-)

Damkerng T.

I missed it. My friend got me a dimmer when I was in Frankfurt.

Dimmers are very cool!

Freddy

@snailboat that made me remind of my old username!

Anonymous

@Freddy Hey, hey! :-)

Damkerng T.

18:25

Hey, hey, Hey!

:P

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Occasionally, be takes a main clause as a complement.

Anonymous

This is clearest when it can be treated as a quote:

Anonymous

> The question to be considered next is: "How long should artificial respiration be continued in the absence of signs of recovery?"

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

The first sentence isn't complete without the second as a complement.

Anonymous

18:26

So structurally, it seems that the second sentence is embedded in the first.

Anonymous

3

A: The question is, should the 'should' in this sentence be capitalized?

The main clause is declarative: A. The question is <something>. What looks like an embedded clause is interrogative: B. Should the 'should' in this sentence be capitalized? It looks like you're embedding B into A, but the embedded clause doesn't take the form of a subordinate clause. ...

Anonymous

Hmm, I should try to improve on that answer

Anonymous

It's been over a year since I wrote it

Anonymous

In my own personal snail grammar, I tend to consider these things "introductory phrases"

Damkerng T.

In mine, I usually think of the whole embedded question as a "thing".

Anonymous

18:35

But it probably depends on the particular example how important the matrix clause is

Anonymous

In "Do you know, (intonational break) where's the bathroom?", you can remove the introductory phrase without a change in meaning

Anonymous

In "The question is, where's the bathroom?", you can't remove the introductory phrase without a change in meaning

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

So maybe they should be treated as separate things, although they both have the form of a verb taking an independent clause as a complement

Anonymous

@snailboat Very interesting to know. I'd love to see a similar sentence in a movie or TV series! Do you know one by any chance?! — learner 31 mins ago

Anonymous

18:39

I wonder if there are movie or TV examples

Anonymous

I imagine planned (scripted) speech would be less likely to have this sort of thing

Damkerng T.

Oh, lemme try.

Anonymous

I had more research on this subject, but I can't find it.

Damkerng T.

Up to this point, all I can say is it's harder than I thought!

Anonymous

"Say, could you tell me, (intonational break) where's the bathroom?"

Anonymous

18:48

I remember when I was researching this that people punctuated it all sorts of different ways

Anonymous

They separated it with a comma, a colon, a dash, ellipses, a question mark

Anonymous

In non-standard varieties of English, by the way, embedded inversion is fairly widespread

Anonymous

But only in certain regions.

Damkerng T.

Oh, the search had me run into another kind of construction.

> Do you know what is true or what is false?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. That looks standard to me, although I would expect and

Damkerng T.

18:52

nods -- It's one of those patterns that won't invert in both embedded and direct questions.

Anonymous

With or, it sounds kind of like "Can you identify things as true, or can you identify things as false?"

Damkerng T.

It's from The Discourses of Epictetus - Special Edition.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Inversion doesn't occur when the interrogative phrase is in subject position. "He's cute." → "Who's cute?"

Damkerng T.

Exactly! (I couldn't come up with neat classification.)

Anonymous

For embedded inversion dialectally, see Embedded Inversion Worldwide

Anonymous

18:56

I wonder sometimes if the construction we were discussing earlier can be treated as a syntactic blend, a direct question borrowing from the syntax of an indirect question

Anonymous

Do you know, "Where's the bathroom?" ← As though the complement is a quote

Anonymous

After all, that's what Nunberg wrote: "...a complement, moreover, which has the form of a main clause; this case has affinities with the reported speech construction"

Damkerng T.

For me, the minimum requirement is a comma (to indicate the pause there).

Anonymous

Me too.

Anonymous

Without a comma, it sounds to me like non-native English

Damkerng T.

18:58

nods

I skimmed thru a handful of movie subtitles and couldn't find just one occurrence of a non-inverted question after "Do you know".

Anonymous

I imagine that would be unusual.

Anonymous

Thru!

Anonymous

In my experience, the spelling thru is limited to traffic signs

Damkerng T.

When I'm lazy, I write thru!

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

19:02

That makes me feel like wanting to edit it to through. :-)

But I think leaving it as thru is better here, for the sake of our context.

Anonymous

People sometimes decry spellings like thru as being "text speak"

Anonymous

Because people have this idea of text messaging as a medium where everyone spells everything in an abbreviated style

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Which is strange, since most people don't actually do that

Damkerng T.

now curious about what most people would actually do...

Anonymous

19:05

Most people spell things normally in text messages

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Anonymous

if u try 2 txt lk ths, you might be accused of texting like an old person :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh! Hah!

Anonymous

Because people who are new to texting think that's how you're s'posed to do it

Anonymous

So they try to be like everyone else, and they end up sticking out :-)

Damkerng T.

19:06

:-)

Some kind of reverse psychology!

Anonymous

Whereas every teenager is subject to social pressure to text a certain way―like everyone else!

Anonymous

And phones these days make it easier to spell things normally than to use abbreviated spelling

Damkerng T.

Interesting!

Anonymous

At least, that's the state of things in the US.

Anonymous

I don't know about elsewhere.

Damkerng T.

19:09

Around here we've (mis)borrowed some more words from English.

gin (from virgin) means have a fresh experience, like going somewhere, a beach some other places, that you've never been to before.

Isn't that weird?

Oh, some other young people use gin to mean imagine!

Anonymous

Japanese has all sorts of 和製英語（わせい　えいご） lit. "Japanese-made English"

Anonymous

Which refers to English words given new meanings in Japanese

Anonymous

And also to English phrases coined in Japan, or given new meanings

Anonymous

For example, "cunning paper" is "cheat sheet"

Damkerng T.

LOL

Anonymous

19:14

"Go sign" is (figurative) "green light"

Damkerng T.

That's so cunning!

Anonymous

Cunning means cheating!

Anonymous

I mean, in Japanese :-)

Anonymous

(In case anyone else reads this later and gets the wrong idea!)

Anonymous

19:33

@DamkerngT. By the way, did you notice how the /ɴ/ was different each time?

Damkerng T.

I did!

The first one and the second one in that clip are totally different for me.

Anonymous

That's been one of my personal challenges in listening practice

Anonymous

Another is the way pitch changes when you add honorific prefixes

Anonymous

Take, for example, しごと "work; job"

Anonymous

It's pronounced LHH. In other words, there's no major drop in pitch anywhere

Anonymous

19:38

The rise after the first mora is generally not too great

Anonymous

But おしごと, with the honorific prefix お-

Anonymous

That's LHLL

Anonymous

So now instead of a small rise between し and ご, you have a large drop!

Anonymous

I often have trouble with honorific prefixes. I have to play the word back in my head and realize what it was

Anonymous

They can be added to almost any noun!

Damkerng T.

19:41

And they switch the tonal pattern too!

Anonymous

Martin devotes four pages to rules for pitch accent with honorific o-

Anonymous

Which he groups into nine sections :-)

Damkerng T.

That's quite a lot!

Anonymous

You'd think it'd be something really simple

Anonymous

But no one really teaches the way pitch is affected by these prefixes

Anonymous

19:46

Accent position is affected by prefixes in English, too

Anonymous

That stuff confuses me. :-)

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure I've noticed that. Most of the changes I noticed are near the end of sentences.

Anonymous

Oh, I should have said suffixes

Anonymous

advantage /ədˈvæntɪdʒ/ → advantageous /ˌædvənˈteɪdʒəs/

Anonymous

Accent shift!

Damkerng T.

19:53

Ahh... Now that makes sense. :-)

Anonymous

books.google.com/…

Anonymous

See? I told you that stuff confuses me :-)

Anonymous

I just found this looking on Google Books

Damkerng T.

I guess we can collect those patterns from dictionaries too. Hmm... So it's not only spelling. :-)

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