English Language Learners

user116848

00:12

@DamkerngT., @snailboat english.stackexchange.com/a/198670/73373

user116848

howdy again!

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar I agree with Hellion.

user116848

haha Yes, I see

user116848

Still I did my part by giving maggie some options to work with :-)

user116848

This has happened to me alot there. I answer a new question and then someone closes that question.

user116848

00:18

haha They are very strict there!

user116848

Argh

user116848

I didn't know they had a place to try chat features

user116848

I just found out. I used to go to some empty room and try different chat features like 'link pasting etc.'

user116848

They call it Sandbox

user116848

Sandbox

Where you can play with chat features (except flagging) and ch...

2

user116848

00:23

Yes

Anonymous

@Arrowfar Your use of so is ungrammatical

Anonymous

It would be okay without so

Anonymous

With so it would be something like: "I was gripping the wheel so tightly that it was like I was hanging from a cliff with my bare hands!"

user116848

@snailboat "I was gripping the wheel tightly like I was hanging from a cliff (with my bare hands)" <----- is this okay?

user116848

I edited it!

user116848

00:26

;-)

Anonymous

Yes

Anonymous

It's grammatical

user116848

I thought 'so' looked fine there

Anonymous

There are multiple uses of so.

user116848

but thanks!

Anonymous

00:27

Which did you intend?

Damkerng T.

> I was gripping the wheel tightly like I was so hanging from a cliff.

^That's probably okay. :)

Anonymous

For suitably large values of "okay"

user116848

@snailboat I meant in the same sense as the other answerer said:

user116848

> 'He gripped the wheel so tightly, they would have to pry his fingers off with a crowbar'

Anonymous

@Arrowfar See, now you've got a complete clause on the right.

Anonymous

00:29

It's basically a that-clause but with ~~that~~ left out

user116848

I see

Anonymous

Like doesn't work the same way as that, though

Anonymous

So ... (that) is a correlative construction

Anonymous

They go together

user116848

I see. Thanks for the correction!

user116848

00:31

Much appreciated :-)

user116848

I should come to ELU chat.....

Damkerng T.

"One more dawn. One more day. One day mooorrree!"

user116848

No, here......

user116848

Hehehe

Damkerng T.

(I have Les Miserables on TV.)

user116848

00:32

You guys are everywhere.....

user116848

:D

Anonymous

I joined both today!

Anonymous

I am also in Japanese.SE chat

user116848

hah :D

Damkerng T.

Sometimes I take a peek into the other room(s). :)

user116848

00:33

Me too

user116848

Chat is fun

Anonymous

People tried to turn the poor Japanese.SE chat room into a programming chat room

user116848

Sometimes

Anonymous

But we wouldn't have any of it!

user116848

@snailboat LOL

Anonymous

00:34

We were all like, so how 'bout them 連用修飾語！

Damkerng T.

Oh, I remember that there is a (the?) Japanese version of Les Miserables.

Anonymous

There is!

Anonymous

My study buddy is a big musical buff.

user116848

What do you study?

Anonymous

Oh, um, Japanese? :-)

Anonymous

00:35

When I say "my study buddy" I mean my friend who I've been studying Japanese with for, well, as long as I've been studying Japanese

user116848

Ah, I know that. I thought it was something new :D

Anonymous

So, a while

user116848

Good thing I am not interested in Japanese. Otherwise I'd eat your heads in Japanese too.

user116848

By asking questions :-)

user116848

And questions and questions hehe

Anonymous

00:37

Oh, no! My brains!

Anonymous

You zombie!

user116848

:p

user116848

I mean in a figurative way ;)

user116848

Not literally! I am not cannibal :DDD

user116848

Or hannibal for that matter

user116848

00:38

I confuse between the two

user116848

It's okay

user116848

Okay let's stalk you guys in Japanese SE hwahwahwa

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar Sometimes I spelled that name Hannibal Lecture!

user116848

@DamkerngT. Yes, that's his Full Name LOL

user116848

@DamkerngT. You watched the movie?

Damkerng T.

00:41

But, but I misspelled his name!

user116848

It is very good.

user116848

I mean all its parts

user116848

Hannibal etc

Damkerng T.

I've watched Silence of the Lambs.

user116848

Oh, I got the joke now. You spelled it "Lecture" as in class room lecture. LOL

user116848

00:42

Funny!

user116848

Good pun I'd say.

Damkerng T.

Hee :-)

user116848

Yes, he gives a lot of lectures in the movie

user116848

:D

Damkerng T.

When they started the first episode of Hannibal on AXN (a Singapore-based channel, I guess), they introduced a second screen app (so the viewers can watch the series on TV and chat on their devices at the same time). I guess I was one of the first who downloaded it, but there weren't many users back then.

I tried it for a few episodes and decided to quit.

user116848

00:47

yay!

user116848

Why did you quit?

user116848

I think Westerns are good in making Hannibal plots

Damkerng T.

Somehow I like the Hannibal in Silence of the Lambs better.

user116848

Yes, it is very good.

user116848

They have one on BBC too these days

Damkerng T.

00:49

Oh, on BBC?

Neat!

user116848

Let me see.....

user116848

Oh, sorry that is Sherlock Holmes

user116848

I mixed it up

Damkerng T.

Oh, Sherlock is very good!

user116848

Hannibal (TV series)

Hannibal is an American psychological thriller–horror television series developed by Bryan Fuller for NBC. The series is based on characters and elements appearing in the novel Red Dragon by Thomas Harris and focuses on the budding relationship between FBI special investigator Will Graham and Dr. Hannibal Lecter, a forensic psychiatrist destined to become Graham's most cunning enemy. The series received a 13-episode order for its first season and, unlike most U.S. network shows, all future seasons will feature 13 episodes. David Slade executive produced and directed the first episode. The series...

user116848

00:50

Yes, it is American

user116848

NBC

user116848

I don't watch it though

user116848

I didn't like the cast in this

user116848

Also it seemed too dragging

Damkerng T.

I think the cast is good enough.

user116848

00:53

Yeah it's okay. It seemed like a drag of a series. You might like it.

user116848

Give it a try!

user116848

If you want that is!

Damkerng T.

I tried, but somehow it didn't catch on on me.

user116848

haha So you tried.

user116848

Same here

user116848

00:54

lol

user116848

What are you watching these days?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... A few things.

Mostly Asian Games on the last few days. :-)

I tried C-SPAN last week (or a bit earlier than that), and I think it's a great channel!

Most movies I've watched, I watch them on HBO.

user116848

@DamkerngT. So what does this mean: Oakland Raiders (0-3)

user116848

Sorry I don't watch American Football

Damkerng T.

Oakland Raiders is just one team.

user116848

00:59

:-)

user116848

Yes I know but the score here google.com.pk/?gws_rd=cr&ei=PlQnVJmiAY_LaJn0gGg#q=raiders

Damkerng T.

I guess the other team should be clear in the context.

Oh, that's a stat, not a score!

user116848

0-3 means Raiders made 0 score so far?

user116848

Yes, what does it say?

user116848

I am a total layman in this :-)

Damkerng T.

01:01

It means Oakland's already played three matches.

user116848

I am not kidding

user116848

I see

Damkerng T.

No wins!

I think every team in NFL will play about 12-14 games in the first round. (I can't remember the exact number.)

And the teams are grouped into groups of 4-6 teams. (Also can't remember the exact number. :-)

user116848

So Dolfins played 2 matches and 1 win.

Damkerng T.

Only the first and the second of each group will enter the next round.

From that stat, Dolphins played 3 games, one win.

Two losses, if we wanted to be clear.

user116848

01:05

Oh, I see

Damkerng T.

> Oakland Raiders
0-3, 4th in AFC Western Division

Ah, that pretty much sums it up.

In AFC Western Division, Oakland is at number 4. (Which is not very good, I think.)

user116848

Yes they are average

Damkerng T.

Because there are only 4 teams in the AFC Western Division!

> google.com/search?q=+AFC+Western+Division

Oh, Eagles looks good this year!

user116848

You may call me boring but I watched the all of Olympics 'sprint' videos on youtube with African Usain Bolt in it .

user116848

I like running championships

user116848

01:10

:D

Damkerng T.

Oh, he is a superb athlete!

user116848

Yes and very very tall

Damkerng T.

Born to run!

user116848

Yes he is.

Damkerng T.

I've once watched a Japanese documentary that had Bolt in it.

user116848

01:11

Cool!

Damkerng T.

They invited Bolt and did a lot of scientific experiments.

user116848

I have watched his documentary too. About him practicing and all.

Damkerng T.

They found that he has the size of lower back muscle (in the pelvis, I think) over three times the size of the best runner of Japan!

user116848

I like "parkour" too

user116848

I have tons of videos from youtube about parkour

user116848

01:13

I don't do it though. It is very dangerous stuff

user116848

Also seems a bit pointless

Damkerng T.

I don't know much about "parkour".

user116848

Good for young folks

Damkerng T.

Oh, looks a lot like freerunning.

user116848

So, I like "running" "parkour" and "calesthenics" (My favorite three)

user116848

01:15

Calesthenics is all about push ups and pull ups etc

user116848

However I can't do them these days

Damkerng T.

I like walking in a garden. :)

user116848

I just can't find the proper motivation I guess LOL

Damkerng T.

Is it counted?

user116848

Yes it does.

user116848

01:16

I like walking too you know :D

user116848

I mean when I don't feel like running, I love to walk in a peaceful place

user116848

Oh, fourth one is "Trekking" (which is a bit like walking)

Damkerng T.

nods

user116848

But I don't have a good spot for trekking here. It's all city here unfortunately

user116848

I can do that in Northern Areas etc.

Amit Joki

02:46

@DamkerngT. 2200ce.wordpress.com/2014/09/27/damkerng-anna-and-others

Cerberus

03:33

@snailboat That is indeed what I try to remind people of!

Some abbreviations can be explained to me a dozen times, and yet I will forget them every time.

fahdijbeli

06:52

morning

what does "acceptance" means in life insurance ?

allbusiness.com/glossaries/offer-acceptance/4951176-1.html

hey

morning. (Already noon here!!)

fahdijbeli

morning for me

by the way, I understood the acceptance :)

hey

Ok. I don't think it mean insurance.

Damkerng T.

09:54

@AmitJoki I was sorta cute! and I got OxyTron! Neat!

hey

10:12

I can't pronounce "accept" and "except" properly, whenever they both are in same sentence.

any trick for that?

Damkerng T.

Why would you think you don't pronounce them properly?

I mean, has anyone complained that? Maybe you just worry a little too much. :)

hey

No one have complained, But it doesn't sound right.

Damkerng T.

When you check your pronunciation with dictionaries, I guess?

hey

10:30

yes, i realise it when i was reading book. I tried to search a bit and found many have such problem.

englishforums.com/English/AcceptAndExcept/zdbjx/post.htm

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. yeah! You were adorable too..

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki Thanks!

Amit Joki

do you think something can be improved in that post?

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki Maybe a few things, but I don't want to make any corrections. :)

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. you could tell me, so I'll keep them in mind for future posts

Damkerng T.

10:33

@AmitJoki I remember I spotted one typo or two.

@hey Hmm... Do you know what schwa is, by any chance?

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. where? what word?

hey

@DamkerngT. No

Damkerng T.

Oh, you corrected one already! I remember I read that I said something with a "smilE". :)

@hey Oh, schwa is very important in English. It's the most frequently used vowel!

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. yeah..., I had already corrected that one.. but you said 2... which's the other one

?

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki I didn't try to catch the errors. I was enjoying reading your post. :)

Maybe just one. :)

Amit Joki

10:38

BTW, is really schwa a vowel?

hey

I think "a"

Damkerng T.

I would count it as a vowel.

@AmitJoki Oh, maybe this one: "I’ll answer most off them"

hey

I think I should keep in mind "accept is pronounced [áksept] and except is pronounced [iksept]."

Damkerng T.

@hey Yes. A is usually pronounced with a schwa (more like "uh" than "ah").

@hey That's fine too.

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. thanks mate.. Corrected

Damkerng T.

10:41

You're welcome!

hey

@DamkerngT. What were you going to suggest me?

Damkerng T.

@hey I wasn't sure what I was going to suggest!

It depends on a lot of factors

but the most important one is probably about stressing in English, which is highly related to schwa.

So I started by checking with you first to see if you are already familiar with it.

hey

oh ok. I have heard of Schwa somewhere but never thought about it.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I didn't know that they have Robocop on Fox Movies Channel today!

Amit Joki

10:57

@DamkerngT. what good it would it be for a robot to see another robot and that too in a movie?

Damkerng T.

@AmitJoki A lot of fun, it would be!

Amit Joki

:)

@DamkerngT. have you ever seen a white elephant? They happen to be in Thailand, don't they?

Damkerng T.

I remember I've seen one of them once in real life, closely enough.

I think I could reach him if I tried.

Amit Joki

Elephants and pandas are damn cute, heaven knows how a white elephant would be!

Damkerng T.

Well, they would be white!

Amit Joki

11:01

@DamkerngT. lol, I didn't know that. Thank you very much :)

Damkerng T.

Hee

Off to see Robocop! See you around. BBL

Amit Joki

k

Damkerng T.

12:52

Wow, I think I like this Robocop remake!

Amit Joki

13:07

@DamkerngT. remake?

Damkerng T.

Yes. I've seen another Robocop before.

Oh, that one was from 1987!

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. you might know Kirobo, don't you?

Damkerng T.

Um... Nope. Sorry!

Oh, I've seen his pics, but didn't know the name!

Amit Joki

Well, if you search for it, it is another robot from Japan designed to be launched into space

Damkerng T.

Thanks for the info!

Amit Joki

13:16

Well, I have this urge to write and become well-known, what about you?

Damkerng T.

I want what I do help people in one way or another.

@AmitJoki I think you're on the right track. You write like a good writer indeed.

(Sorry for the typos.)

Amit Joki

@DamkerngT. ah! Thanks but I'll be a programmer in future I suppose... I've 18.2k reps at Stackoverflow.. And I should be thankful to you for those typos, those were done in an hasty keyboard typing!

user62015

14:52

Hello! Please let me know when someone is available to help.

Amit Joki

@user62015 you just ask your question and someone will help by

hey

You should just ask question, whenever someone will be available they will reply(this is what i do!).

Anonymous

15:13

@AmitJoki Schwa is a vowel, but it sometimes gets left out entirely!

Anonymous

@hey What they wrote there is not useful

Amit Joki

@snailboat how can a word be a vowel? a,e,i,o,u are all I know.. How can a word be a vowel?

I might be stupid here, but I don't know seriously.

Anonymous

@AmitJoki Okay, so

Anonymous

We need to distinguish vowel letters from vowel sounds

Anonymous

English has a lot more than 5 vowel sounds!

Amit Joki

15:16

so, schwa is a vowel sound?

Anonymous

It is the name for a vowel sound. It is written ə in IPA.

Anonymous

web.uvic.ca/ling/resources/ipa/charts/IPAlab/IPAlab.htm

Anonymous

If you click the letters on that vowel chart, you should be able to hear recordings.

Anonymous

And you'll hear more than 5 total vowel sounds

Anonymous

Actually, there is no fixed number of physical vowel sounds.

user62015

15:19

Hello @snailboat. How are you doing?

Anonymous

Hello!

Anonymous

@AmitJoki When discussing English, it's usually only useful to talk about vowel sounds. There isn't much reason to discuss vowel letters

Anonymous

People do it anyway, but they get confused by it.

Anonymous

For example, if you want to discuss a versus an, you need to talk about whether the following sound is a vowel or a consonant.

Anonymous

It doesn't help to talk about a, e, i, o, u

Anonymous

15:21

Those are mostly useful for playing Wheel of Fortune :-)

user62015

15:33

I want to ask you about a sentence. In the sentence I don't see any tense but I think it is an example of The Present Simple Tense: Your freedom not to love? I think it is an example of a colloquial speech and it stands for Your freedom is not to love?

Anonymous

Your question needs context to be answered.

user62015

Sure. Please wait. I am pasting it from the novel.

"Your freedom to do what?" she shot back. Your freedom not to be intimate? Your freedom not to love?

Anonymous

Presumably the complete sentence comes from whatever she's replying to

Anonymous

That's an echo question

Anonymous

So the previous sentence most likely said something along the lines of "my freedom", and probably in a complete sentence

Anonymous

15:37

(If not, then further context would be necessary)

Anonymous

She is echoing what was said before, turning it into a question. Her question asks (rhetorically) about "my freedom"

user62015

But I don't see any helping verb there to understand?

Anonymous

We need context to figure out a complete sentence for it.

Anonymous

But the questions there are just noun phrases

user62015

Okay. May I tell you the novel name and page number? Do they work for you?

Anonymous

15:41

It is not a colloquial omission of is

user62015

Okay.

Anonymous

> "What I was scared of, Leslie, is that we were starting to own each other. My freedom is as important to me as . . ."
> "Your freedom to do what?" she shot back. "Your freedom not to be intimate? Your freedom not to love? Your freedom to seek relief from joy in restlessness and boredom?

Anonymous

Your freedom to do what (is as important to you as . . .)

Anonymous

Your freedom not to love (is as important to you as . . .)?

Anonymous

Your freedom to seek relief from joy in restlessness and boredom (is as important to you as . . .)?

user62015

15:43

Yes. We are on the same page.

Anonymous

Once you understand the basic usage, then you should try to understand that these are rhetorical questions

Anonymous

She is saying them to make a point. She isn't expecting a yes-or-no reply

user62015

Okay.

Anonymous

This too would make a great question for ELL, assuming you provided enough context to make sense of the quote

user62015

Okay. I agree.

Anonymous

15:45

Are you familiar with echo questions? They're one of the basic question types in English

Anonymous

First she echoes back "my freedom" as "your freedom", and then she adds "to do what?"

Anonymous

Her following sentences follow the same pattern, (literally taken) supplying possible alternatives

user62015

No. I am sorry. I am not familiar with them yet.

Damkerng T.

@user62015 I suspect that every language might have some forms of echo questions, one way or another. There might be some of them in your first language.

Hello, everyone!

user62015

Okay.

I agree.

Anonymous

15:48

@DamkerngT. That makes sense, but the definition of "echo question" needs to be language-particular

Anonymous

Because different languages do echo questions differently

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. In Japanese, a basic echo question is formed by repeating what you heard (or part of what you heard) and adding the informal quotative particle って. You don't necessarily need to repeat it at the same politeness level

user62015

I will search on the internet about it and learn it. One question as well from the context Dam pasted and I had also noticed that. I think the "s" should have been capital in this line "Your freedom to do what?" She shot back."

Anonymous

@user62015 No, it's okay the way it is

Anonymous

It's part of one larger sentence

user116848

15:52

@DamkerngT. howdy!

Anonymous

If it weren't a question, it would be linked with a comma rather than a period

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar Yo! -- I feel like "Yo!" today! :-)

Anonymous

The quote is a complement of the verb shot

Anonymous

It is being used similar to said

user116848

@DamkerngT. Haha That's very unusual of you. But good. :D

user116848

15:53

I mean "Yo!"

user116848

:-)

user62015

So the small "s" is fine there?

Anonymous

(You could consider shoot back as a single verb for simplicity's sake, although they are actually two separate words)

Anonymous

@user62015 The small 's' is preferable

Anonymous

If you capitalize it, it seems like two separate sentences.

Anonymous

15:53

And then you're left wondering what she shot back.

user116848

@DamkerngT. I am happy that you are happy lol

user62015

But before it there is a question mark.

And we use a capital letter after a question mark.

Anonymous

That is not a valid rule

Anonymous

It is true most of the time

user62015

Sorry! I do not have enough knowledge about it yet.

Anonymous

15:54

But it does not always work

Anonymous

You use a capital letter to begin a sentence

Anonymous

Usually, a question mark ends a sentence

Anonymous

Therefore, what you said is usually true.

Anonymous

However, it is not always true.

user62015

Okay.

Anonymous

15:55

When you have speech in a story like this, you can add a dialogue tag to tell the reader who is speaking.

Anonymous

> "I like this," she said.

Anonymous

Both the quote and the dialogue tag are part of the same sentence.

user62015

Yes.

Anonymous

Here, that is indicated by the use of a comma and the lack of a capital letter on she.

Anonymous

> "Do you like this?" she asked.

Damkerng T.

15:56

> "Of course!" he replied. <-- I like an exclamation there!

Anonymous

In the question I just typed, they are still part of the same sentence, but now the only indication is the lack of a capital letter on she.

Anonymous

They can be considered inversions of the following basic sentences:

Anonymous

> She said, "I like this."
> She asked, "Do you like this?"

user116848

I have a question too snail: (take your time)

user116848

> The question is, what would happen if they try to sell the same phones in markets that don't require a back-door. Sales would suffer if there are viable alternatives, but if there aren't?

user116848

15:58

here

Anonymous

In each case, the quote is (grammatically) the complement of the reporting verb, either say or ask

user116848

If I said the same thing I'd write like this: "The question is, what would happen if they tried to sell the same phones in markets that didn't require a back-door. Sales would suffer if there were viable alternatives, but if there weren't?

user116848

Would I be wrong?

Anonymous

@Arrowfar That is an example of optional backshift

Anonymous

Your version is okay.

user116848

15:59

How would you say it? With present or past like mine?

Sandbox

Transcript for