English Language Learners

Anonymous

07:08

By the way, on the topic of pronoun case in coordinated subjects, see Thomas Grano's 2006 thesis “Me and her” meets “he and I”: Case, person, and linear ordering in English coordinated pronouns

Anonymous

@F.E. I think the prepositional construction with of is more common in BrE, but the transitive construction is not completely ruled out

Anonymous

bbc.com/news/17471313 - "He then went back into the bathroom where he jumped out the window, and was then found dead on the ground outside."

Anonymous

I don't know whether BrE speakers vary in whether they accept it

Anonymous

What I do know is that examples can be trivially found

Anonymous

And that perhaps if Huddleston and Pullum consulted more or larger corpora while compiling CGEL they might have admitted it or described it differently

Anonymous

07:14

I don't know.

Anonymous

I'm not a BrE speaker

Damkerng T.

Hello! It seems like a lot of things happened while I was away.

trying to catch up...

Hmm... I guess evaluates to X is quite common...

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. My answer is based on my experience and an admittedly brief check of corpora, which seemed to back up my intuition

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

It's not anything deep--I was just writing a quick answer because I saw the opportunity to spend one or two minutes doing so :-)

Anonymous

07:19

I went back and added the hedge "generally" to the second sentence

Damkerng T.

Strange. I expected to find a handful of evaluates to be false on the Ngram site.

But I found none.

Anonymous

Happily, I expected not to find any, and my expectations were met. :-)

Damkerng T.

Hah! Some of evaluates to be true exist!

books.google.com/ngrams/…

Anonymous

I'm always happy to see evidence that I'm right about something. I mean, it's fine to be wrong, 'cause that way you can learn, but it happens disconcertingly often to me ;-)

Anonymous

Oh, that poor little red line…

Anonymous

07:22

@HostileFork I like ELL. Usually. It's not always an especially welcoming place, but maybe we can make it one.

Damkerng T.

I guess turned out to be true has got involved.

HostileFork

@snailboat It seems a good mission, and I don't have a problem with people going into minutiae. I find myself trying to answer simple questions and realizing they are not so simple, and that's funny in a way...

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What, a syntactic blend? (A syntactic blend is a type of error where you blend two grammatical constructions and come up with one which is questionable.)

Damkerng T.

(This is the place where I'm not sure if it should be got or gotten in AmE.)

Anonymous

@HostileFork Ah, I mostly like syntax. Natural language is really complicated! :-)

Damkerng T.

07:24

Hello @HostileFork! Welcome to the chat!

HostileFork

Hello. Well thank you for a nicer welcome than... um, whatever that was above

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I actually thought you meant "... has got to be involved", but if that's what you meant it would be "... has gotten involved"

Anonymous

In AmE.

Anonymous

Has got to be 〜 must be

Damkerng T.

Hah, I think I personified the phrase turned out to be true. :)

Frankly, I didn't think of the sense of must be or have to be.

I think it appears to sound odd, because it has two things off. :)

Anyway, I guess that people could get evaluates to be true tangled with turned out to be true.

Anonymous

07:33

That seems like a reasonable guess. (Of course, I don't know of any way to test that hypothesis since I can't look into people's brains!)

Anonymous

To be honest, it strikes me as non-native English.

Anonymous

But that's just my intuition talking

Anonymous

I think I need to try to be nicer on Stack Exchange.

Anonymous

I'm not nice enough. Yet.

Damkerng T.

@HostileFork My motto: The most simple words are the most difficult ones to explain, in any languages.

Anonymous

07:36

@DamkerngT. Quick! Define the! Or do!

Damkerng T.

It's the definite article of English.

Then I can write a book about what definite is. :D

Anonymous

People do that.

HostileFork

I've always been the kid pointing the video camera at the TV monitor.

"Define DEFINE"

Anonymous

Some people use the alternative label identifiability, but the mainstream term is definiteness

Anonymous

(But some people distinguish the two as concepts)

Damkerng T.

07:39

Between a comma and an inversion, I opted for the latter. :D

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. "Then I can write a book about, what is definite?" is not really kosher

Anonymous

So your choice was a good one.

Anonymous

Rule number one: Be Nice

2

HostileFork

@snailboat Funny, the journal says that sentence translates precisely to "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."

Damkerng T.

I should start collecting sentences of this kind, too. For example, the fire is burning itself.

HostileFork

07:42

You just violated the copyright on one of my death metal songs.

I'm flagging you.

Eh, I've had a hard week, and Internets are... Internets.

Anonymous

I used the special moderator "pin" ability to cheat and star my own message. :-)

HostileFork

Why do I keep coming to this place?

For the... uh... love. Always for the love (?)

I de-moderated myself from the room I started on SO to absolve myself

So I can't abuse powers anymore

Anonymous

You mean you are no longer a room owner?

HostileFork

I started SO room #291 back when

Anonymous

I am a moderator, so I can pin stuff in any room. Mwa, ha ha.

Anonymous

07:46

I can also edit messages from as long ago as I like.

HostileFork

On chat.stackoverflow.com ?

Anonymous

I'm drunk with power!

Anonymous

No, on chat.stackexchange.com.

HostileFork

Oh, well no one uses that.

:-P

Anonymous

SO chat and SE chat are separate.

Anonymous

07:46

I'm not much interested in SO.

HostileFork

Well lately there's a bit of...er...stuff

Anonymous

Yeah?

HostileFork

Infighting of a sort, questions about whether the guidance is on target.

445

Q: An experiment: Stack Overflow TV

Stack Overflow is beginning an experiment called Stack Overflow TV, or SOTV for short. It will be a series of fast, smart videos for experienced programmers who want to learn a new thing. The videos will serve as a complement to Stack’s Q&A, and intended for that community. Of course, they will ...

The restless natives are getting more restless

Anonymous

Oof, MSO.

Damkerng T.

Oh, do we have SOTV too?

Anonymous

07:49

I check in on SO from time to time, but MSO is kind of beyond the pale.

HostileFork

Preaching to the choir

Damkerng T.

Hmm... Maybe I should've watched TED Talks more often.

Anonymous

TED talks are very popular.

HostileFork

Speaking of parody, seen the Onion parodies of TED talks?

Anonymous

I have not

HostileFork

07:50

►

There are some good TED talks but if you have seen a bad one, then their parody is spot on

Damkerng T.

Oh, it looks like it's not a one-off. Episodic!

They even have ONN (rather than CNN)!

HostileFork

Not totally tangential to English Language teaching, is one of their masterpieces, which is that one is only educating people to read and speak a language that will lead them to terrible conclusions... I must share and then I will stop.

►

Damkerng T.

Sad. Cry. Scared.

Poor bunny rabbits. :-)

HostileFork

Important video to see and think about IMO :-) but when speaking of English language acquisition

I was one of the opposition to the "newbie StackOverflow" idea, and I suppose if I were to be totally intrinsically consistent I would thus say that ELL/ELU should be the same site with a process that sorts and manages both

Anonymous

Sure. I think ELL and ELU should be one site in theory.

Anonymous

08:02

But in practice the people populating those sites make that difficult or perhaps unworkable

HostileFork

The weird exception to the rule I think is kind of that "meta" exception; that being a competent English speaker is required to participate in any part of the system

Anonymous

So in practice we've got ELL and ELU

Anonymous

And the way it is, I think it works out okay

Anonymous

I don't think it's necessary or maybe even desirable in principle, but eh.

HostileFork

So while I'd not support "newbie StackOverflow" the idea of "newbie Speaker of the Protocol languages to enforce rules on all sites" gives it an exception, at least how the system is currently designed

Anonymous

08:03

@HostileFork I don't follow

HostileFork

I think they tried newbie StackOverflow and then decided to kill it, I don't keep up so well

Jinx

Anonymous

StackOverflow is newbie StackOverflow

Anonymous

For the most part.

HostileFork

Well that has angered some people at this point.

In terms of the Be Nice rule, is this Rick guy being nice in his comments?

2

A: evaluates to be false vs evaluates to false

"The guard condition evaluates to false." That's the more correct phrasing in the two choices given; and the grammar explanation has already been provided. But I want to mention that the word choices here enter into fine points of programming semantics. A guard condition is controlled by a...

Anonymous

If you don't think so, you can flag it. If nothing else, half of the discussion is off-topic

Anonymous

08:08

I'm not a moderator on ELL proper, only on chat (because all SE moderators are moderators on SE chat―it doesn't mean much)

Anonymous

On ELL, the mods are Matt, waiwai, and WendiKidd, but the most active moderator is J.R.

HostileFork

Eh, it's not that big a deal compared to other things

Anonymous

So if you flag it, J.R. will likely take a look at it.

HostileFork

I flagged his response when he had no comment on his "surety" of having been programming longer than me

Anonymous

Yeah, that's the part that's basically off-topic.

Anonymous

08:10

Declarations like that don't really impress anyone, I don't imagine.

HostileFork

I dunno, by his comeback I bet he lost that one

Anonymous

I was thinking of the original "Nonsense. I have a longer background in both, I'm sure."

Anonymous

There's no need to compare.

HostileFork

Well I think it's okay to compare; but there's a tone in it

And he expressed a certainty and I then cited a piece of evidence that he used for another attack as opposed to citing his experience programming prior

Anyway, it's dumb, I know

Anonymous

@HostileFork Sure, if people are talking neutrally then it's just chatter.

Anonymous

08:13

Too Chatty or the like, probably, but on ELL lots of chatty comments stick around.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I think that line can be considered offensive.

Anonymous

Yeah, the tone of the discussion wasn't neutral.

HostileFork

I didn't flag that, I flagged his response; and I shared something intended to be humorous

And he still didn't back off

Anyway, I have a lot of things to think about, and this is really--really--nothing... I'm more concerned about the environment for the English Language Learners.

Anonymous

Yeah?

HostileFork

Yep!

I don't give one bit of care about any score next to my name on some website

And I actually prefer the archiving of transcripts in which I feel I am being reasonable vs how others are acting. I kind of would like everything to be recorded all the time.

Anonymous

08:16

But what are your concerns about the environment for ELLs?

HostileFork

(And it's good that I like that, because, I don't think anyone has a heck of a lot of choice these days.)

Anonymous

I don't think many people asking questions are concerned with whether one commenter or another has been programming longer than the other

Damkerng T.

Quite true.

Anonymous

They probably want their questions answered.

HostileFork

Well... I don't want it to become the place that people who are absolutely competent in English but would be found to be missing values or emotion (and hence an outcast on English Language & Usage, due to the user's distorted worldview) to take up refuge here and become authorities to the naive somehow.

F.E.

08:19

> This would be the place that is welcoming to new speakers, people who don't have or are not protectionist of power; but seek to inform learners.

What is that all about?

HostileFork

@F.E. Well spoken!

Oh, wait, that was quoting me.

Anonymous

@HostileFork I joined ELL because when I feel like I'm helping learners, I feel good about myself.

Anonymous

I've participated a little bit in ELU, but I was put off by certain things.

HostileFork

What things were those?

F.E.

@snailboat Oh, I forgot about that AmE vs BrE on "out of vs out" kinda stuff. That topic also comes up quite a lot on forums and sites.

Anonymous

08:22

@HostileFork Questions being closed unreasonably

Anonymous

Their attitudes toward learners' questions, really

HostileFork

I haven't watched it enough to know, it pops up only occasionally in the mandatory sidebar now and again

Anonymous

I think some native speakers have this concept that learners' questions are "newbie questions" or are somehow easier than the sorts of questions native speakers can come up with

Anonymous

I think learners' questions are quite often harder

HostileFork

Yup.

Damkerng T.

08:24

I think the two kinds of questions are usually different.

Anonymous

Yes, very often

Damkerng T.

And though some learners' questions are supposed to be easy to answer for native speakers, it's quite understandable that some can be really hard.

Anonymous

Well, native speakers are good at making intuitive judgments.

Damkerng T.

I think I can't explain a lot of things in my first language well enough on my feet.

Anonymous

They're generally bad at explaining anything grammatically unless they've specifically studied it.

Anonymous

08:26

So naturally, certain kinds of questions can be answered by the majority of native speakers quite easily

HostileFork

@snailboat That's the thing, is that I want to explain by example; research just seems to fall apart.

Anonymous

And others can't.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat There is another skill I observed here: searching for things on the Internet and paste it as an answer. Sometimes it works fine, sometimes it does not.

Anonymous

08:54

Okay. It's clear that HostileFork misinterpreted what F.E. wrote and did so rather publicly, and that F.E. is responding to this with some hostility, and now we've got a bit of a flame war going.

Anonymous

We've crossed several lines here.

Anonymous

It's time for a bit of a time out.

Damkerng T.

@F.E. Umm... Okay. I think it's very late there. See you around soon.

Anonymous

→ 91 messages moved to Trashcan

HostileFork

Mad with power.

Damkerng T.

09:00

I don't like it when it rains a lot, and the chance of power outages goes up, along with my Internet connection stability going down.

HostileFork

And it makes me interested in what our responsibilities are; as participants in the game-with-no-rules.

In ways the Internet is very wild west; I used to do a lot of Wikipedia-um... Wikipediaing?

Damkerng T.

I tried Roulette chats once (following the link listed on ELL resources at that time), and met a wide range of people, from 12 to 70.

HostileFork

I was at a party where they did it on a projector, that's as far as I've been with it

It was the party entertainment. Click and see, well, you know

"Stare with fascination into the void of what people will do when they can do anything."

Damkerng T.

@HostileFork Did you do it with an axe?

HostileFork

@DamkerngT. I did it with being the person who first started mapping the 3-D model to figure out what the letters were and what was on the back!

Damkerng T.

09:04

Ahh... neat!

HostileFork

I made that diagram, in the beginning of the "what's on the back of the wikipedia logo" initiative.

Damkerng T.

I didn't know that they put something on the back too!

Oh, wait, that image is the front view.

HostileFork

That was the beginning, when I was trying to build a 3D model

►

I didn't make that model, it was made to my specifications by some people on a blender forum

The ultimate model did not use my design, they did something a bit more interesting that didn't "punt" on the caps the way I did

BUT they did in the process use my language research to try and kick off what letters would be on each piece

Damkerng T.

When was that? Around year 2000?

HostileFork

It wasn't me who edited that diagram of the symbols into the "history of the wikipedia logo", others dug it up from the blender artist forum

Oh, later than that

The 3-D build of the Wikipedia logo was announced in 2010

Damkerng T.

09:09

Oh, somehow I though it was older than that.

HostileFork

Which provoked me to go read about it, and that's when I found they had actually used my work and people pasted that diagram from the blender artists forum...

Damkerng T.

As always, I shouldn't trust my memory as much as I want to.

HostileFork

It had an eerie kind of "GalaxyQuest" feeling, where you come back to something and it's like they built that thing you were just pretending about, but it's real.

Damkerng T.

Hah! Strange that you mention GalaxyQuest. I think I just saw something like "By the Hammer of Grabthar" on ELL. Was that you?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

HostileFork

09:10

@DamkerngT. Haha, yes

Damkerng T.

I see. Hehe. :-)

Anonymous

The puzzle ball logo appears to have been designed in 2003

HostileFork

Yeah the original guy is photographed with the new 3-D ball at a conference

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I see. It kept evolving.

Oh, Thai cho ching is on it, too. I always miss it somehow.

HostileFork

But the thing he made wasn't something you could build, I kicked off this "let's figure out what's on the back if it were 3-D" thing, so I got my little place there under my "metaeducation" alter-ego.

It's interesting that, on the original puzzle ball, the Japanese were constantly complaining.

"You're using the wrong symbol! That is not the initial!"

Damkerng T.

09:14

I think Khmer lô gets quite a good spot on the model.

HostileFork

My rendering idea was that the print edition would do it like a selectric typewriter:

Anonymous

@HostileFork Well, it's not.

HostileFork

But that's why I wanted it to be open source, in Blender, see lots of variations.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I remember I've seen that kind of golf balls before!

Anonymous

So it's not really that strange that they'd complain. :-)

Damkerng T.

09:14

Very expensive. The way I remember them.

They include even Klingon on the logo!

HostileFork

Anyway it's interesting, I've been doing documentaries of my logo designs and while I only had a small part in the Wikipedia logo, it does give me a bit of a smile... I used to be such an advocate of Wikipedia that people would call me "Wikiman" so I decided to be that for Halloween one year

Damkerng T.

> There have, over the years, been suggestions that some of these characters should be changed to reflect the actual spellings of "Wikipedia" in various languages.

HostileFork

And I bought an old, damaged (not safe) white motorcycle helmet for $20 on Craigslist... it had been in an accident and was only usable for costuming

Damkerng T.

I think that's true about that Thai letter used in the model, too.

HostileFork

One sharpie later...

Damkerng T.

09:17

@HostileFork Hah! Must be interesting!

HostileFork

Damkerng T.

Neat! Do you still have that helmet? :-)

Anonymous

วิ versus ฉ?

HostileFork

And everyone kept yelling "Look, it's Evel Knievel!"

@DamkerngT. Oh no, threw it away afterwards, I travel light :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Exactly. They might look very similar from afar, but the correct one should be วิ, to reflect Wikipedia's spelling, which is วิกิพีเดีย.

@HostileFork I see. I see. :D

HostileFork

09:20

Though I may have played a small part in the Wikipedia logo's history, I do still sort of get a kick out of coming back to it and finding some random Internet Archaeologist grabbing the old graphic and uploading it with a statement like "An early attempt at deciphering the symbols on the ball. Several of these guesses were correct." :-)

Damkerng T.

LOL

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Likewise, ワイ and ウィ might appear similar, but... :-)

Damkerng T.

Ah, well, let it go. <-- Frozen's theme song.

HostileFork

I'm trying to provide a bit of context, which is to say

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It's playing again.

Damkerng T.

09:28

@snailboat It's about 3 and a half hours to go for its premiere here.

Considering the rain which is falling not very lightly, I think I have a good chance to miss it.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What!? It wasn't already out in theatres?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat On Fox Channel, I mean. :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh! :-)

HostileFork

Are you willing to discuss yourself?

Who are you?

fahdijbeli

hi

Anonymous

09:31

I am me.

fahdijbeli

haha

Anonymous

I am mostly uninteresting. You've used software I've written.

Damkerng T.

@fahdijbeli Hi!

HostileFork

@fahdijbeli If asked, in the English phrase, "Who are you?" how would you read that? What would you answer?

Damkerng T.

Oh, the rain is falling very heavily now.

fahdijbeli

09:32

my answer is I am me

Damkerng T.

My cable TV just went dead a moment ago.

Anonymous

@fahdijbeli Hey, me too! :-)

HostileFork

@snailboat That is a lot of software. I could guess or can you name something?

Anonymous

No.

Anonymous

I am mostly uninteresting.

HostileFork

09:33

If you've used Microsoft Access or Microsoft SQL Server then depending on which versions, and which features you used, you may or may not have used parts I have written. Other than that, I'd say I'd doubt you had.

But, as above, if you've looked at the Wikipedia logo... I have... sort of participated in something you have seen, but that was a long collective effort.

Damkerng T.

I just checked out some of my previous work, and it looks like it's a part of Amadeus now.

Anonymous

I have a pet snail who is asleep right now.

HostileFork

@snailboat You literally, have, a pet snail?

Anonymous

Yes

HostileFork

That is odd. I had a hedgehog for a while.

Not the most social of animals

Anonymous

09:35

HostileFork

That doesn't give a notion of scale.

Unless that is, a Pringle?

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

@HostileFork Now I know who is to blame for if any of MS SQL servers of my clients crashed. :)

Anonymous

Snails don't eat Pringles. Salt, y'know.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Robot once liked salty Pringles. :)

HostileFork

09:37

@DamkerngT. I worked on it back when it didn't crash.

Damkerng T.

@HostileFork Hah! That's a good one! :-)

Anonymous

I also know a little bit of Japanese.

Anonymous

Now you know several things about me.

HostileFork

I inherited a cat. I am not a cat person. But I have this cat.

Anonymous

Oh, that's a nice-looking cat! :-)

HostileFork

09:38

She's... ok.

Damkerng T.

Hey, that looks almost like my cat!

HostileFork

Anonymous

Maybe she'll manage to turn you into a cat person eventually.

HostileFork

And goofy.

And I set her up in photo shoots, like when my dad was in the Mayo Clinic

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Let's see a picture of Hagu so we can see them side-by-side!

Damkerng T.

09:39

Definitely like my cat! I guess that she has a bag on her tummy.

HostileFork

She's a good sport.

I am still not a cat person.

I just make allowances for this one cat.

Who is climbing on the back of my chair as we speak.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Say, are you going to watch Frozen? Can you watch in English?

Damkerng T.

I sure can. :)

Too bad that I can't disable the subtitle on Fox Channel.

fahdijbeli

@HostileFork more photo please hahahah :p

HostileFork

@fahdijbeli Do you have any pets?

Anonymous

09:41

I really liked the Japanese version, but to be honest the English version was better. I wonder if that's true relative to all the dubs

Anonymous

A lot of jokes didn't really translate to Japanese

Damkerng T.

I can't find the photo of my cat here!

fahdijbeli

yes a dog :p will bite your cat :p @HostileFork

haha

Anonymous

But the Japanese soundtrack is spectacular

Anonymous

HostileFork

09:43

@fahdijbeli Where are you from? What would you like to learn about English?

Damkerng T.

Oh, thanks! How could you find it?!

fahdijbeli

@HostileFork from tunisia end I want learn english to get job abroad

HostileFork

@fahdijbeli Cat is very, very fast and can jump easily to high places. She is not afraid of any dog, but will fight other cats if allowed.

Anonymous

I searched for hagu, searched the results page for photo, clicked the link to the transcript, and found the adjacent image :-)

fahdijbeli

@HostileFork she is giggling :)

Damkerng T.

09:44

Perhaps I should remember your trick. :)

@HostileFork And if your house is wallpapered like mine, you can say goodbye to your wallpapers!

HostileFork

@fahdijbeli I once had a beer brought to me back from Tunisia. Couldn't read the can. It was all right though...

@DamkerngT. There is no "wallpaper" visible in the photos I have shared. "wallpaper" is specifically about a kind of decoration on the vertical walls of a building. You cannot see that. In the pictures you can see "carpet" (on the floor) and some "background" (for instance, the back of the chair the cat is sitting on)

fahdijbeli

y drink a beer in tunisia already ?@HostileFork

HostileFork

@fahdijbeli A girl I was dating brought me back a beer when she visited Tunisia as a present.

fahdijbeli

ah

Damkerng T.

@HostileFork Do your carpets and your cat get along well? :-)

fahdijbeli

09:49

the tunisian beer is rose a3333

Damkerng T.

(The carpet looks fine in your photos, though.)

HostileFork

No, it needs replacement, I just do all right at photoshop.

Damkerng T.

@fahdijbeli I haven't had Tunisian beer before.

HostileFork

I don't shop the cat.

Just the environment

Damkerng T.

:D

fahdijbeli

09:50

ah I mean sour not rose hahah

HostileFork

fahdijbeli

it's not good it's sour @DamkerngT.

HostileFork

This was the beer, I'm pretty sure:

fahdijbeli

hahhaha yes it's

Damkerng T.

Ahh

HostileFork

09:51

What does it say?

fahdijbeli

it's sour

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It was just the first thing that occurred to me

HostileFork

"This beer is designed to poison americans. If you are Tunisian, do not drink." (?) :-)

fahdijbeli

it's mark u pronounce it : seltia

@HostileFork yes I didn't

HostileFork

@fahdijbeli What is the white writing?

Anonymous

09:52

@DamkerngT. Because you should totally watch Frozen.

Damkerng T.

Really, your cat looks really like mine.

fahdijbeli

hahha it say "good beer" @HostileFork

HostileFork

@DamkerngT. Pics or it didn't happen.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I will, if my cable TV still works fine at the premiere time.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. "I will"

HostileFork

09:54

@fahdijbeli Literally? I mean, we are all here interested in what the details are. "Good beer" seems very simple for so much writing.

Damkerng T.

That's the first thing I want to correct after hitting Enter.

fahdijbeli

yes literally say "good beer" @HostileFork

HostileFork

@fahdijbeli Can you read American beer cans?

Damkerng T.

I can see SFBT on the label.

HostileFork

The script font, would throw me, if I were new to English after the "obvious"

fahdijbeli

09:56

yes I dunno what stand for SFBT right :/ @DamkerngT.

@HostileFork no

HostileFork

@fahdijbeli Well can you make out any of it?

Anonymous

Apparently Société Frigorifique et Brasserie de Tunis

HostileFork

What do you see and not see.

Anonymous

Société de fabrication des boissons de Tunisie

La Société de fabrication des boissons de Tunisie (SFBT), connue sous le nom de Société frigorifique et brasserie de Tunis jusqu'en 2012, est un groupe tunisien de l'industrie agroalimentaire centré sur quatre produits principaux. Fondé en 1925 sous le protectorat français, le groupe privé occupe une position de leader dans la commercialisation des boissons : il contrôle environ 85 % du marché national de la bière, 90 % de celui des sodas et 40-50 % de celui des eaux minérales. == Histoire == Privatisé en 1979, il est en partie racheté (49 %) par le groupe français Castel. Il rachète ensuite des...

Anonymous

Ooh

fahdijbeli

09:57

ah good

so it does S=society F=made in french fabrication B=cans and T=tunisia

Damkerng T.

A-ha!

HostileFork

@fahdijbeli I will point out that I am genuinely interested in how much you can read an American beer label, because on the Tunisian beer, I could read nothing. So you get points for anything you can read whatsoever. You are typing here so you know at least latin characters we would think.

Anonymous

Apparently they changed their name recently without changing their initials

Anonymous

webdo.tn/2012/06/20/la-sfbt-change-de-nom-mais-pas-d-initiales

Damkerng T.

@HostileFork Frankly, I can't read the first three lines in the middle at the top.

Anonymous

09:59

@DamkerngT. I can.

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