English Language Learners

Awal Garg

15:39

Me is sooo happY!

It is my rest time right now :)

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier Oh, yes. I really missed that. What I meant was "They are grammatical." Somehow I skipped reading the part incorrect when I copied the OP's text. Thank you.

Awal Garg

hey dt, whats up? Long time huh!

where were you all these years?

Damkerng T.

Oh, it was years already?

Awal Garg

hey, lets play a little game, but I warn, I haven't ever lost this one...

I will give you a name, it is anagrammed... you have to find the real name out of it. ok?

Damkerng T.

I'm afraid it's not the best time for me to play such game. :)

Fantasier

15:48

How do we compete fairly then?

I mean, you are the one who gives the anagrammed, so you know what the original name is.

Awal Garg

Rules:
You can post any angram except my name...

@Fantasier you can give anagrammed names to me to solve

one by one

@DamkerngT. ok, you are temporarily suspended from this game :)

Damkerng T.

That's fair.

Awal Garg

First, I will give an anagrammed word.

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier Hmm... Perhaps I didn't write it convincing enough.

Awal Garg

> Nitin Chand Arya

^ decode it

I will provde a hint as well:

> - --n- c-- i- h--d

Damkerng T.

15:51

Actually, the heart of the whole answer was just this:
- *could* suggests the possibility to do the action, but **they probably did not do it**, while
- *was/were able to* suggests that they *could* do it, and **they did it successfully**.

brb

Awal Garg

^ it will fit inside it. When I posted with stars, the markdown devastated it. Please consider hyphens as stars...

Fantasier

Is it someone well known?

Awal Garg

nope

it is just a normal sentence anagrammed into a name

Fantasier

Hmm

Wait, so is the original a name, or a sentence?

Awal Garg

@Fantasier its a sentence :P

c'mon, you can make it. I will tell you how to play.

take the letters in the anagrammed version and place them in the hyphens until you get a nice sentence

> Nitin Chand Arya <-> . ..n. c.. i. h..d

@Fantasier ??

Fantasier

16:00

@DamkerngT. I know, but I'm still not convinced :)

I give up \\o//

Awal Garg

hmm. time up. FA ... YOU LOSE

It goes like this - A tiny car in hand!!!

Fantasier

Um... ok

Awal Garg

We are ending this game as it is very difficult for people other than Awal Garg. If withing the next 100 years, humans other than Awal Garg grow up intelligent enough to play it, we will launch it again.

I actually wonder what intelligent and great @snailboat would have done!

bye guys, break is over :P

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier sad :)

I checked it out in a few grammar books, and I think most of them are misleading.

Not that what they say is wrong, but they could lead the learners to think in a strange way.

Like, oh, this is a one time thing in the past, I mustn't use could.

Really, I thought I nailed this one. Looks like it's not good enough.

Fantasier

I think could with sense verbs usage doesn't explain the second example the OP gave, among other examples that might be on COCA.

Damkerng T.

16:10

I think say is not a sense verb.

Fantasier

Oh, well, yes.

I think in the second example it really refers to one occasion.

Damkerng T.

I try to avoid explaining could vs. was/were able to the way PEU did.

I thought it's ambiguous.

Fantasier

Every grammar book and coursebook I've seen explains it the same way PEU does.

I don't think it's ambiguous. It's good enough, but obviously not enough for this case.

Damkerng T.

The writer might be thinking about the possibility (to get the family back), or what was really done.

I think could and was/were able to are almost interchangeable.

But they hint different things.

To be more definite, managed to is much better, imo.

(Perhaps definite is non-gradable.)

Fantasier

The way I learnt them, they are not interchangeable (when talking about ability in the past)

Damkerng T.

16:15

I think we could substitute one with another. It's just that the meaning would change.

Fantasier

> The fire spread through the building very quickly, but everyone was able to escape.
> *The fire spread through the building very quickly, but everyone could escape.

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier Eh, only in the "a specific occasion" case, maybe?

> The fire spread through the building very quickly. Everyone could escape, but they didn't.

Fantasier

That's possibility (not ability), I think. And what I'd say is:

> The fire spread through the building very quickly. Everyone could have escaped, but they didn't.

Damkerng T.

That's better. I agree.

> With a hammer in his hand, he could break the glass and escape. He decided not to.

> With a hammer in his hand, he was able to break the glass and escape.

> With a hammer in his hand, he managed to break the glass and escape.

I think the second one is a little ambiguous.

He definitely escaped in the last one.

Fantasier

Uh-huh

Hmm

Damkerng T.

16:20

Using could have works too, but it hints something else.

Fantasier

I think the first one still talks about general ability.

Damkerng T.

I thought of it as the past tense of can.

Fantasier

The rest say that he really did it.

@DamkerngT. Yeah, but that's where the problem lies, I think.

Damkerng T.

I think the was able to suggests that he did it. But I guess that some literal readers could read it as "probably did it".

@Fantasier nods -- Which is why I noted "it could sound strange or misleading enough that some grammar books make it a rule that you must not use it."

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. Well the grammar books state it clearly enough when you mustn't use it. I don't think it's misleading.

Damkerng T.

16:26

Being a non-native speaker trying to guess what happened in native speakers' minds is hard.

@Fantasier Umm... I meant "the meaning of the sentence" when I wrote "it could sound strange and misleading ...".

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. Hmm...

Damkerng T.

Because such usage could sound so strange and might mean what the learners don't want to, I think it's fair to make it a rule (you must not use it).

However, the rule could also mislead the learners to think of it... umm... incorrectly?... maybe.

Fantasier

Maybe...

Let me see if I can find more information.

Anyway, which do you personally prefer?

Damkerng T.

In what?

Fantasier

Damkerng T.

16:30

lol

I think you have to decide that for yourself. :)

Fantasier

Well I actually have decided, but I think it may be a good idea to ask for another opinion.

Damkerng T.

Looks like you have one too many choices. :D

Fantasier

The profiles of linguistics professors at CU seem very impressive to me.

Damkerng T.

nods

And what about TU?

Fantasier

I like the teachers' attitudes, questions they ask me during the interview.

Damkerng T.

16:34

Ahh

Fantasier

Also I get to start learning English right away.

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure about "start learning English right away". What do you mean?

Fantasier

I mean, I'll be in the English major immediately.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I see.

But it's not like that at CU?

Fantasier

You see, if I go to Arts I have to study the basics for one year, then I have to compete a bit (or more) to get into the English major.

Damkerng T.

16:37

Ahh... Perhaps it's the same in all faculties (there, at CU).

Fantasier

And at TU I don't really have to study as much literature as at CU.

I don't dislike literature, but I'm not particularly fond of it either.

Damkerng T.

I usually trust my gut feelings.

Listen to your gut. (adapted from Listen to your heart :-)

Also, keep your eyes on what you aim for.

Fantasier

Well, anyway, to CU I go :P

Damkerng T.

(Though I'm not very sure about what you're aiming for.)

Yay!

Fantasier

Hmm, I aim to be a university professor :)

Damkerng T.

16:41

That sounds nice!

Fantasier

Before that, studying abroad, before that maybe Hons from CU, if possible, before that I already achieved :)

Damkerng T.

:)

Just don't do the same mistake I made.

To get any Hons, you must have no F.

To get the Gold Medal Hons, you must have no D and no F.

I got all of them. :) So, my teachers were trying to find a way to bend the rules for me, and I had to firmly state that it's fine with me without any Hons.)

Fantasier

Ahh

May I guess that you made the mistake in Year 1?

Damkerng T.

I got one F in Lab Chem. Yes.

And a couple of D in something I already forgot. :)

@Fantasier I was too busy playing my guitar those days. :)

Fantasier

My Mom said it's easy to make this kind of mistake (or similar) during Year 1. She got 2.8 in Year 1. Then she tried to get Gold Medal Hons, but can get only ordinary Hons.

Damkerng T.

16:52

Ahh... She was in a better situation and I was. I got 2.0, sharp, in my first semester.

Fantasier

She said kids usually think they already succeeded in life when they managed to get into a prestigious university!

Damkerng T.

Oh, I didn't think of anything like.

I just had too much fun with my life. :D

Fantasier

Well, I don't. My dad even said to me, "are you even happy with the result?" LOL

Damkerng T.

It was also the first time since ever for me to really meet girls, so I guess you could imagine what happened. :-)

Fantasier

Haha

Of course I am happy, but I dream so high, maybe too high :) To be as overly happy as any of my new friends who succeeded in getting in Arts, I've gotta be a lot more than this. Sometimes I think I expect too much of myself.

Damkerng T.

16:55

I think you're gonna do just fine.

Fantasier

Ah, thank you.

Damkerng T.

You don't have to; I really think so.

Fantasier

Oh, and have you got any advice about university life?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... Have fun with it, but not too much. :-)

Also, I've heard that some rules was changed, but if it's possible, study your bulletin carefully right from the start.

In my faculty, they called our course planning book "bulletin".

Fantasier

Ah, I see.

I don't know what it's called here.

Damkerng T.

17:01

It's important to know which courses are required by which.

And, if you have enough time, join a club. It's a good way to get a good experience in life.

(Just don't let it keep your out of your goals.)

I think in Japan, they call these "clubs", circles.

Fantasier

I may join CU Pen Club. Seems interesting enough. I like writing :)

Damkerng T.

Good, good!

I joined the Hill Tribe Club.

Fantasier

Oh, interesting!

Damkerng T.

It is!

I learned a lot of things during the time I spent with the club.

Fantasier

Ahh

Damkerng T.

17:06

I know how to light up ตะเกียงเจ้าพายุ too. Even repair it a bit. :D

Oh, Google Translate says ตะเกียงเจ้าพายุ ~ Hurricane Lamp. I think I shouldn't trust it this time. :-)

Fantasier

Maybe if I joined your club, I would have a chance to learn interesting languages. I just finished ใต้ฟ้าสีคราม (Under The Blue Sky) by สีฟ้า ('Blue') lately. Hmong's language seems interesting enough :o

Damkerng T.

Ahh... It led me to Kerosene Lamp page on Wikipedia.

@Fantasier Oh, yes, I learned a bit of Hmong, and Ahka.

Hmong is a beautiful language, imo.

You must find a chance to listen to the music of the hill.

It's really beautiful, under the night sky.

Fantasier

How romantic :)

Damkerng T.

It really was!

Oh, what a precious memory of mine!

Precious. My precious!

GATA

That's what poor Gollum used to say.

Damkerng T.

17:15

Hehe.

I talk Gollumses sometimeses.

GATA

:D

Fantasier

I neither watch nor read Lord of the Rings.

Damkerng T.

Oh, you didn't!

Go find the DVDs. :-)

Fantasier

Oh, no, actually I did watch them, but I forgot them all.

When I was younger, I once tried to read the three books in Thai, but I don't like the language style. I almost fell asleep lol.

Damkerng T.

lol

Fantasier

17:18

Same goes for Harry Potter. :o

GATA

:D its movie is better than the book

Damkerng T.

I still haven't watched the 2nd Hobbits movie yet. -- keep waiting, patiently...

GATA

I am not fan of Harry potter too.

Damkerng T.

I think it's possible to enjoy both the books and the movies.

A-ha!

GATA

I like short stories better. I cant read 2 books for only one story :)

Awal Garg

17:20

whos talking harry potter?

Fantasier

Hmm, I'm not.

Awal Garg

hi, dt, gt, fa ...

GATA

Hi :D

Damkerng T.

Harry Potter could be a good way to learn English.

Hi!

Awal Garg

@GATA you are missing a great deal :P

Fantasier

17:21

@DamkerngT. I guess so. My brother first English novel is HP The Order of Phoenix!

Awal Garg

Hey, what are VCs?

Damkerng T.

Nice!

Fantasier

After the book he rapidly got faster and faster at reading English

Damkerng T.

@AwalGarg Eh?

Fantasier

@AwalGarg In what context?

Awal Garg

17:22

I guess VCs might be of help <-- In here, what is meant by VCs?

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier Good for him!

Fantasier

@AwalGarg Still no idea without expanded context :o

Awal Garg

Google says it is verified carbon standard... there is nothing like that in my project

GATA

One tiny question. Would someone please tell me if it's OK to say: Both "who"s in this sentence are...

Damkerng T.

@AwalGarg Venture capital?

Awal Garg

17:24

@DamkerngT. the context is my project :P

Fantasier

@GATA You mean the "who"s part? Then yes, I think.

Damkerng T.

@GATA I perhaps say things like that myself. :-)

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. u make sense, but I wonder why they would be of help

GATA

Thanks :)

Damkerng T.

ag, more VCs = more capital = more money to spend

No problem. :D

Awal Garg

17:26

dt, I am not inventing a million dollar company, it is just a small project to help me earn a bit more pocket money :P

no need to even spend money, (yeah, the domain cost is there.. still)

Fantasier

Hope you're not doing SEO service. I hate those.

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. can it be something else?

@Fantasier haha, me too :P

Damkerng T.

I don't know the context, so this is my best guess.

Let's assume that they don't mean CVs.

Awal Garg

For all I know, don't deal with people who talk of money more than the ongoing topic. You will never be happy!

Damkerng T.

Actually, I think it's the best to ask them what they mean.

Awal Garg

17:30

They have a different timezone, they shall be in bed now.

Damkerng T.

@AwalGarg It will come down to money, sooner or later.

(I mean, for the startups.)

Awal Garg

dt, are you employed or self employed or student?

@DamkerngT. only one of the above ^ three can say that thing :)

lol

Damkerng T.

I was all of the above. I'm now a small business owner.

Awal Garg

you manufacture English sentences?

Damkerng T.

lol -- It would be easier if I could make money just doing that. :D

Awal Garg

17:33

You can, I will buy each of them for negative $10 :P

Damkerng T.

That's really kind of you. :P

Awal Garg

ok, I buy this one, now you are in negative $10 balance. You owe me $10, it means. Give me my $10 NOW

Damkerng T.

I just bought three of your sentences. What should I do?

GATA

AG, don't use this method in your project :D

Awal Garg

dt, My price is positive $10. Well, give me $40 then :P

GT, I swear, its NOT about money...

Damkerng T.

17:36

$40

See, it's easy when it's virtual. :D

GATA

I am sure :)

Awal Garg

Hmm, why is this room's id 7227?

why not 2772?

Damkerng T.

'Cause it's the 7227th room, I think.

Awal Garg

Why is it the 7227th room, then?

Damkerng T.

Dunno.

Awal Garg

17:39

dt, you are the room owner, you must know :D

Damkerng T.

Btw, people really use Harry Potter.

May 29 at 21:49, by Damkerng T.

Awal Garg

what?

Fantasier

LOL

Damkerng T.

(Sorry about a wrong message.)

Fantasier

Twilight.

Damkerng T.

17:40

Twilight never dies!

Awal Garg

I don't agree that teachers are normal people.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I like that A Thousand Years song.

Fantasier

I like the song.

And that's probably all I like about the film.

Awal Garg

They are just a buggy version of Apple's Siri Voice assistant :P

Damkerng T.

Hah!

@AwalGarg You confused me.

Awal Garg

17:42

I like this one --> azlyrics.com/lyrics/christinaperri/athousandyearspart2.html

@DamkerngT. why?

its in the last part of the vampire movie series, I think

a part of it

Damkerng T.

It sounds like you suggested that teachers are lesser than Siri.

Awal Garg

yep, I did...

Damkerng T.

Oh, that's harsh.

Fantasier

Well, what can Siri do that a teacher does?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. My onion is no longer an inch from the ground. It's righted itself!

Anonymous

17:45

Awal Garg

When you ask Siri - "Would you marry me?", she says "Its not in my license agreement." See, plain and clean answer. To the point. A teacher would rather give a big unwanted lecture to this...

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

Oh, it looks beautiful!

Awal Garg

sb, please, grow another one for me and post it :)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat It's almost three feet tall, maybe!?

Fantasier

17:47

@AwalGarg Hmm, that doesn't answer my question. I asked, "can Siri do anything that a teacher does as a job?"

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Onions turn out to be surprisingly tall.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... Why is everything in the US so big?

Anonymous

@AwalGarg Oh, what is strange about teachers?

Damkerng T.

I remember I've seen a giant pumpkin in one of my old books.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. You forgot to invert

GATA

17:48

Really WOW. What kind of onion is it?

Awal Garg

@Fantasier yep, I ask siri - "What is 2+2?" She says "4". I ask the same to my teacher, she sends me out of the class!

@snailboat ^

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I did! TYftC!

Anonymous

@GATA It is a white round onion bulb plant onion. I don't know anything about onions :-) But one started to sprout, so I put it in the ground and started to water it

Awal Garg

sb, is the onion edible?

Anonymous

It was edible before I planted it.

Awal Garg

17:49

lol

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I guess it still is. :P

Awal Garg

dt, ^ bad grammar edited to good grammar :P

Damkerng T.

Yeah, my fingers typed that on their own will.

Awal Garg

2 mins ago, by Awal Garg

@Fantasier yep, I ask siri - "What is 2+2?" She says "4". I ask the same to my teacher, she sends me out of the class!

GATA

@snailboat It is beautiful I didn't expect it from the stinky onion. :D

Fantasier

17:50

@AwalGarg Hmm, I think Siri can't send you out of the class, so she can't do the job of a teacher.

Awal Garg

^ am I not making sense?

I am not joking

@Fantasier why does anyone need to send me out of the class?

I am good inside it, FA

Fantasier

@AwalGarg Well, that's not the point. The point is the ability of Siri to do something a teacher can. And sending you out of the class is one of them; Siri can't do that.

Awal Garg

@Fantasier you are right, siri can't (doesn't) do unnecessary things which waste time :P

Fantasier

@AwalGarg Well it's not wasting time, because sending you out of the class is the right choice to make if you don't know what 2+2 is. It'd take a long time to explain that to you, and that would definitely waste time (of the others in the class).

Awal Garg

@Fantasier 2+2 was just an example. There are other real things :!

ok, let me justify

Fantasier

17:54

@AwalGarg Well, come up with the real things!

Awal Garg

I asked my chemistry teacher, Why can't more than two electrons share an electron.

She replied, don't ask questions which won't help you earn marks!

I asked this to Siri, she Googled it, I got a nice Wiki link which cleared it for me.

Damkerng T.

0

Q: Do you use the phrase "that which" for the apposition?

The insect propagates best near "disturbed land," that which is being cultivated by humans. I saw this type of sentence. Do you use this kind of syntax. Would it be possible that it is colloquial? Some explain that "that" following "disturbed land," is the apposition and also the antecedent...

sentence-construction

Awal Garg

For further confirmation, I used another voice system to write the question on Chem.SE, I got a very nicely built answer!

I am happy now :)

What did the teacher do for me? - Nothing

Damkerng T.

Oh, it looks like reading it as an appositive is okay.

Fantasier

They teach :)

@DamkerngT. Yeah, to me.

Damkerng T.

17:57

It sounds rather like Thai than English to me. :P

Anonymous

That doesn't mean all teachers are like that.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. more like Thai than English, you mean?

Awal Garg

That doesn't mean all voice assistants are like that. I meant, in a more general form, tech is better (and not as well) than teachers in a lot of ways...

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure. I think what I feel is, it doesn't sound like English.

Awal Garg

dt is trying to divert the topic, aren't you, dt?

Fantasier

17:58

@AwalGarg Have you used all techs in the world? Or have you met all teachers in the world? (Or at least, a lot of them)

Damkerng T.

(We have a similar construction in Thai. Instead of just plain which, we usually use two words that which, ที่ซึ่ง)

Awal Garg

I have used techs accessible to ME. Similarly for teachers. Reality

Anonymous

I've had good and bad teachers.

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