English Language Learners

Santi Santichaivekin

03:15

hi Could you help me with this?

@jimsug: Yeah - it's gratifying to see that three others have already endorsed my re-open vote. I don't know if that includes you (which might seem rather odd, since you were one of the original closevoters), but I think if all he had to go on were the existing answers on a closed question, a learner would end up seriously misinformed. For example, there's nothing remotely unusual about gardeners wishing to have healthy plants, but who ever heard of a well plant? — FumbleFingers 10 hours ago

Oh sorry

Wrong one

ell.stackexchange.com/questions/23803/…?

Anonymous

You're asking if well can be used attributively (as in "well woman visit") and not just predicatively ("she is well")

Anonymous

03:38

@SantiSantichaivekin Okay, I wrote an answer.

Santi Santichaivekin

03:57

Thanks^^

Fantasier

Great answer!

Anonymous

06:39

1

A: Finished seeing the contents? Now, wait a sec.! Did you vote?

Indeed ELL does seem to have a dearth of votes. Here are the average number of votes per post as of a few days ago, excluding deleted posts, for the language sites on Stack Exchange (plus the top, bottom and median (Linguistics) sites in terms of average votes per post): up do...

Fantasier

08:25

Wait what

I have no idea what happened.

...

Anonymous

@Fantasier Nothing worth paying attention to.

Fantasier

Alrighty

Damkerng T.

11:46

@snailboat I think we don't only lack of voters, we also lack of answerers.

Nico

@DamkerngT. I don't think that explains it.

My impression is that Spanish.SE has much less activity, but the statistics here don't show that:

3

A: Finished seeing the contents? Now, wait a sec.! Did you vote?

Indeed ELL does seem to have a dearth of votes. Here are the average number of votes per post as of a few days ago, excluding deleted posts, for the language sites on Stack Exchange (plus the top, bottom and median (Linguistics) sites in terms of average votes per post): up do...

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think one problem of ELL is we have a rather low average number of answers per question.

Last I checked, it was about 1.8 A/Q.

Anonymous

1.8 is fine. Quality over quantity

Nico

Answering questions on ELL is more difficult than on ELU

Anonymous

I asked a question on ELU today.

Nico

11:58

One my know what is wright or wrong in their native language, and at the same time, being unable to explain the reasons for that.

Damkerng T.

That's true. But if we want to compare our stats to others, maybe we'd want to compare A/Q ratios too.

nods

I think another problem we do have here on ELL is that we aren't fond of short answers.

Nico

it has to be combined also with the daily number of posts

Anonymous

Short answers can be helpful

Anonymous

Yes, we have more questions than other language betas

Nico

Short answers are better

Damkerng T.

12:00

It's something like, if the question asked "Why 2 people eat 5 cakes faster than 3 people eat 10?" And we don't like answers such as "Because 5/2 = 2.5, and 10/3 = 3.33."

Nico

What I wouldn't be happy is with an answer that doens't explain why

Anonymous

Oh, no! Better? But I just wrote another textwall... :-)

Damkerng T.

I think we shouldn't judge answers as good or bad (if we want to judge, and admittedly, I think we have to) because of its being short or long.

Nico

@snailboat Some of your text walls are very good. I still remember the one on phrasal verbs.

Damkerng T.

So I think I'm fine with many of our textwalls.

Nico

12:03

But I'd say text walls belong to tag descriptions (or canonical posts, perhaps).

Anonymous

No one reads tag descriptions, I think

Nico

... I do ...

Damkerng T.

I know I don't. :D

I think of tag descriptions as dictionaries. Usually, I don't read them. But I like the fact that they're there.

Nico

Especially when they are cited in answers and comments

Damkerng T.

So I can take a dab at them from time to time.

nods

Anonymous

12:05

@Nico Well done, Οὖτις

Nico

Outis

Outis (transliteration of Ancient Greek Οὖτις, in capitals ΟΥΤΙΣ, from οὔτις "nobody" or "no one") is an often used pseudonym. Artists, writers and others in public life use this pseudonym in order to hide their identity. Origin of the name "Οὖτις" was used as a pseudonym by the Homeric hero Odysseus, when he fought the Cyclops Polyphemus, and had put out the monster's eye. Polyphemus shouted in pain to the other Cyclopes of the island that "Nobody" was trying to kill him, so no one came to his rescue. The story of the Cyclops can be found in the Odyssey, book 9 (in the Cyclopeia). The na...

?

Damkerng T.

Nice, I was about to ask what that thing above that U was. :-)

Nico

"My name is Nobody. Nobody I am called by mother, father, and by all my comrades."

Damkerng T.

Ahh... it's akin to "anonymous".

@snailboat I didn't finish my thought. I think the low A/Q ratio goes together with low votes.

Let me explain a bit.

I think ELL is different from other programming sites.

2

Nico

not exactly the same, but:

John Doe

The names "John Doe" for males, "Jane Doe" or "Jane Roe" for females, or "Jonnie Doe" and "Janie Doe" for children, or just "Doe" non-gender-specifically are used as placeholder names for a party whose true identity is unknown or must be withheld in a legal action, case, or discussion. The names are also used to refer to a corpse or hospital patient whose identity is unknown. This practice is widely used in the United States and Canada, but is rarely used in other English-speaking countries including the United Kingdom itself, from where the use of "John Doe" in a legal context originates...

Damkerng T.

12:13

wait a sec...

Damkerng T.

12:30

I'm back.

Where were I?

Oh, I think ELL is not a programming site. On programming sites, it's easy to verify answers, and they usually are larger communities, and usually answers and askers are the same group of people.

Language sites are different. People who need help ask; people who know answer.

And I think the line between the two groups is the most clear cut on ELL, compared to other language sites.

On other language sites, I think most of the users speak more than one language.

So the sense of givers and takers are stronger on ELL, and thus lower number of votes.

Here is what I guess. I guess that our answerers don't usually vote answerers, maybe they don't vote at all; they give answers and it's fair for them to expect upvotes.

Though some of our answerers upvote good answers. I believe most do not. And this stat should be easy to check for SE.

The other group of users, our askers, don't know which answers are correct, so they refrain themselves from upvoting.

I think, it's true that we have a kind of voting problem.

Damkerng T.

But why I think A/Q ratio hints another layer of problem?

Nico

So you don't think the quality of the answers plays a significant role?

Damkerng T.

I think it hints another pattern: people don't like to upvote less-than-good answers.

Anonymous

I vote on both questions and answers.

Damkerng T.

@Nico I do. I'm getting at it. Bare with me a little. I'm rather slow to get to my point.

So many people just leave questions that have only less-than-good answers.

I mean, they do nothing.

"That answer is not good. Oh, so is this answer. Well, see what interesting in other questions."

Anonymous

12:42

public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/bare.html

Damkerng T.

They might even think they'd like to downvote some answers,

but refrain from it for not wanting to hurt others' feelings.

I think it'd be much better if these group of people "leave a better answer" instead.

And the fact that we have low Q/A ratio points to it.

That's what I think.

@snailboat Ah, yes, I misspelled bear indeed! TYftC!

Umm... @Nico I think it's not a good idea if you comply with my "bare with me" request. :P

Nico

:D

I'm not used to that kind of invitation :p

Damkerng T.

Hehe.

Anyway, I think it's fine if people don't like to vote. But we should promote this idea: "It's okay not to vote, but before you leave a question you don't want to vote, please leave a better answer."

In short, "Please answer, or vote. Pick one."

Nico

Perhaps SE could have something similar to the review system for all the users, where users would be presented from time to time with a selection of answers to vote.

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I think that idea is nice too.

Damkerng T.

13:07

0

Q: Shuffle Through Motions

I am not sure about the meaning of the phrase "to shuffle somebody through the motions": link Lynette laughs about these blind dates because she knows most of her single friends are being shuffled through the same motions, but admits that both instances were terribly awkward. In onlin...

"being shuffled through the same motions" is an odd expression.

It sounds like they're playing on words.

(I've never thought of motions as something we'd shuffle or be shuffled through.)

Damkerng T.

13:20

On another site...

I wonder if Invoker's answer would get just one upvote if this question were asked on ELL instead.

28

A: Is it correct to say "You are a path shower"

It does not sound very natural to me, here are a few more alternatives - You are a saviour! Or You are a life saver. Or Thank you for enlightening me.

A-friend

13:36

Hi Damkerng. :)

How's life?

;)

Damkerng T.

A bit interesting, considering our political matters. :D

What about yours?

A-friend

:)

how come?

A bit interesting, considering our political matters.

:-/

:)

Damkerng T.

The martial law was declared yesterday here.

A-friend

Aha

Damker can you help me with another sentence?

Damkerng T.

Sure, if I could. :-)

(Come to think of it, I should've probably said "If I can" instead.)

What's your sentence?

A-friend

13:40

I'm sure YOU can.
I am writing a commercial requesting letter to a native consultant.
I need to imply the following message:
"We have reviewed Aspirin related information in it's catalog. We would be really thankful if you put your advises about how should we import it."

After answering this question of mine, I will tell you a very interesting fact about myself. ;)

Damkerng T.

You write this to an American company, right?

A-friend

Yes

Damkerng T.

Okay.

A-friend

Oh I meant in "its" catalog. ;)

Sorry for the typo

Damkerng T.

I'd rephrase the first sentence a little.

A-friend

13:43

Though I'm sure the amount of my mistakes would be too much.

Damkerng T.

> We have reviewed the information related to Aspirin in its catalog.

A-friend

OK

:)

Damkerng T.

Suppose that both you and they know what this catalog is. :-)

A-friend

of course

and what about the second sentence

?

Damkerng T.

A moment.

> We would be greatly thankful if you could advise us on how we should import it.

That's my minimum changes. Though I might not personally write it like that.

This doesn't mean that I think your choice of words is less than good or anything. It's just the matter of style, I think.

A-friend

13:47

Wow. Thanks Damker. :)

I know what you mean

Damkerng T.

No problem.

:)

A-friend

I'll be back by 5 mins. I will tell you an interesting story of mine about during the past 2 weeks

;)

Damkerng T.

Okay. I will be around.

A-friend

14:00

Damker

Are you there?

Damkerng T.

Yep. :-)

A-friend

Should I modify this context?

I have to express my highest apology because of this unwanted delay in answering to your e-mail.

I am e-mailing to CEO of the company in my question

Damkerng T.

It sounds a bit superfluous.

A-friend

Should I modify it in your mind?

Damkerng T.

But I think the meaning is quite clear.

A-friend

14:01

OK

;)

Damkerng T.

It depends on who your CEO is, I think.

A-friend

What do you mean?

My letter should be very formal

Damkerng T.

I think some of them like "to the point" style (but of course, politeness is always necessary).

So, it depends. :-)

The easiest way is to reflect the way they write or talk.

If your e-mails are supposed to be very formal...

I think it's okay.

(Personally, I might use "replying" instead of "answering to".)

Also, "I would like to" sounds a little friendlier than "I have to".

But then again, I think "I have to express" is kind of set phrase.

A-friend

Perfect

:)

Parth Kohli

15:57

@DamkerngT. Hello.

Damkerng T.

Hi!

Parth Kohli

How diddly do?

Damkerng T.

Diddly does diddly, I think.

Parth Kohli

Haha.

Damkerng T.

Also trying to figure out what the heck this would mean: "This is where the big boys stand out and race their flags on the boards."

The OP said, "the context is a motorbike race".

Parth Kohli

16:02

Hmm, the context is still very limited.

Damkerng T.

nods

It looks like some people really use "on the boards" in racing.

> Racing on the Boards - For the 1936 Vanderbilt race Germany sent the all conquering. English and French drivers split the next group of records until Ray Keech hit 207.553 on April 19, 1928.

Parth Kohli

"Big boys" could refer to the racers. I guess.

Damkerng T.

That's quite natural.

I have no problem with the sentence except for the part "on the boards".

Maybe it's a racing talk.

Parth Kohli

itunes.apple.com/in/app/motor-gp-bike-race-pro-super/…

This is the context.

That doesn't look like a credible source for learning English.

Damkerng T.

nods :-)

I still can't decide the boards in "on the boards" refer to racing tracks or racing cars.

Fantasier

16:13

I think it refers to the scoreboards. Race their flags on the boards probably means something like compete for the first place on the boards where flags represent racers.

Just wild guessing.

Damkerng T.

Oh, that makes sense, I think.

But wait, why do we need boards? Just one board would be enough, I think.

Perhaps they mean lots of competitions in the same tournament.

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. Yeah, but my guess doesn't seem to fit this quote.

Parth Kohli

Where is WendiKidd when you need him/her?

Damkerng T.

Have you ever met WendiKidd before?

Parth Kohli

@DamkerngT. Yes.

On this chat.

Damkerng T.

16:25

(I only met her once, just once, since I joined ELL.)

Wow! You're so lucky! :-)

Parth Kohli

Well, erm, I really am not.

Earthquake.

Damkerng T.

Huh!

Parth Kohli

I felt an earthquake.

Damkerng T.

But nothing serious, right?

Parth Kohli

Nothing serious :)

Damkerng T.

16:33

Phew!

After a big tsunami, I started to follow earthquake feeds for a while.

Then, I gave up. :-)

Then, we got Fukushima.

Parth Kohli

Oh...

Damkerng T.

Before the Fukishima incident that year, I planned to travel in Japanese a bit.

So the plan was off.

Parth Kohli

Hmm. I see. Do you like to travel?

Damkerng T.

Yes, though I haven't traveled much lately.

Parth Kohli

Ah. What places have you been to?

Damkerng T.

16:40

Hmm... Not that many. Mostly in my own country.

I've never been to Africa before.

Also I've never visited the USA.

Awal Garg

@ParthKohli English Garden, Englishstan, English Tower, Englishter, English bla bla

Am I right @DamkerngT.

?

Parth Kohli

@AwalGarg What... is that?

Damkerng T.

English Tower sounds nice! :-)

Awal Garg

@ParthKohli Places @DamkerngT. has visited...

Parth Kohli

I've been to Thailand, Singapore and UAE (Dubai).

Damkerng T.

16:42

Nice!

Dubai seems like a nice place.

Awal Garg

I have been to the kids next door...

Damkerng T.

I almost had a chance to visit there.

Parth Kohli

But that's all. So I've never been outside Asia at any point in my life.

Damkerng T.

@AwalGarg Umm...

@ParthKohli I always like Europe. It has its own charms.

Awal Garg

Its a nice place and I have been to Danville as well

@DamkerngT. for example? what charms?

Is the tri-state area real?

Parth Kohli

16:45

@DamkerngT. Yes, I think I'd be visiting Switzerland this year if things turn out right.

Damkerng T.

@ParthKohli That's exactly the place I visited. :-)

@AwalGarg What kinds of charms? Well, if it's possible, I'd like to recommend visiting their train stations.

Just hearing them announce Interlaken Ost, Interlaken West is charming enough. :D

Awal Garg

Ok, has anyone been to the USA - Universal Studios of America?

Parth Kohli

@AwalGarg I've been to Universal Studios in Singapore.

Damkerng T.

Oh, that sounds like fun!

Parth Kohli

Yes, it was a great theme park.

Awal Garg

16:48

@ParthKohli I am assuming you are not making those places out of imagination...

Parth Kohli

rwsentosa.com/language/en-US/Homepage/Attractions/…

Damkerng T.

Ahh... Sentosa brings back my old memory.

Parth Kohli

@DamkerngT. Wait, wait, wait, have you been to Singapore?

Damkerng T.

Yup. :D

Awal Garg

@ParthKohli No, not that I meant. Let me say it in hindi, tum sach me un jagahon par gaye ho ya aise hi bakwas kar rahe ho?

Damkerng T.

16:50

It's strange that the first thing I remember about Singapore is Borders.

Awal Garg

And don't start following up in hindi...

Parth Kohli

@AwalGarg Gaya hoon.

Awal Garg

@ParthKohli Where do you live now?

Parth Kohli

Photos bhi dekhni hain kya?

Gurgaon.

Awal Garg

And how old are you?

Parth Kohli

16:51

I'm fourteen.

Almost fifteen.

Awal Garg

@ParthKohli See that's why. The Indian parental believes, I can't believe they'd arrange trips like that for the sake of tripping...

But if yours do, you are lucky... enjoy

Parth Kohli

@AwalGarg Actually they were sponsored by my Dad's company. And they were group trips: ten employees' families visited those places altogether.

Awal Garg

@ParthKohli Ohh, great.

@DamkerngT. Can you tell me what is meant by "what." without a "?" but with a "."?

Damkerng T.

Eh?

Can you give me some examples?

Just, what.

Parth Kohli

@AwalGarg It's not actually valid in English, but it means that you're saying "what" expressionlessly.

Awal Garg

16:56

@DamkerngT. I say something. And someone replies - what. Then, I say it is shipped with a ?, he says I am ROFLing

Damkerng T.

lol

Awal Garg

@ParthKohli Ofcourse, is it grammatically correct though?

Parth Kohli

Yeah, it can also mean the exact opposite.

Damkerng T.

I think Parth Kohli got it right.

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. You think?

Damkerng T.

16:57

nods

Awal Garg

37 secs ago, by Awal Garg

@ParthKohli Ofcourse, is it grammatically correct though?

Parth Kohli

@AwalGarg No, it is not.

Damkerng T.

People usually come up with creative ways to communicate in chat.

Awal Garg

@ParthKohli That's why I was asking...

Fantasier

I think it has nothing to do with grammar; it's punctuation.

Awal Garg

16:58

@DamkerngT. Ohh, internet is all about freedom. Let the river flow :P

Damkerng T.

lol

Parth Kohli

@Fantasier Punctuation is a part of grammar.

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. That reminds me, I made a series of words a while ago! Remember?

Damkerng T.

Oh, yeah.

Fantasier

@ParthKohli Well, I meant grammar as morphology + syntax. I think none of those has punctuation as a part of them.

Awal Garg

16:59

A month ago I think

Damkerng T.

Maybe less than that.

Awal Garg

29days ago then, I think

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