English Language Learners

Anonymous

09:02

I try to do at least two hours of listening practice each day

Anonymous

But the most important part is just doing it every day

Anonymous

@hellodear2 Don't try to punish yourself. If you aren't happy with your current behavior, try to change it.

Anonymous

@Nico The usual term is habitual. :-)

Nico

09:31

@snailboat thx

Fantasier

10:11

@DamkerngT. I got accepted by CU! Yay!

Damkerng T.

10:24

@Fantasier Hooray!

Congratuations!

Fantasier

Thank you!

Damkerng T.

I think my input box looks smaller than it was today.

Oh, it's because I maximized this window!

I haven't noticed that by maximizing this window, the input box will get a little smaller.

Do you still have to get another oral interview?

(I think we had to, back to my days there. :-)

Fantasier

Yes, but they aren't going to take anyone out :)

Damkerng T.

Of course not!

Unless you are really, really, umm... well, I think I haven't heard anyone really got taken out. :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. You can change the size of the input box a little.

Damkerng T.

10:29

I can? How?

Fantasier

Unless I'm mentally ill, or have a really bad attitude or personality.

Anonymous

The bottom-right corner is a draggable UI element.

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier Yep. So I think you should be fine. :-)

@snailboat It's gone when I maximize the window.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh. In my browser it remains

skullpatrol

Hi guys :-)

Damkerng T.

10:33

Hi @skullpatrol!

(and Hi everyone else; I think I haven't said hello yet.)

skullpatrol

@DamkerngT. Hello

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier I think you're officially on your way to become a real linguist. :-)

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. Still loooong way to go, but a good start I think.

Nico

@snailboat Dammit! I lost the corner and I can't reach it now! :(

Anonymous

@Nico Shift-reload :-)

Nico

10:36

@snailboat Thx It worked! What does it do?

Damkerng T.

Oh, I think I know what happened to my browser. I tried F11 yesterday, and I think it got confused.

Anonymous

@Nico In this case probably roughly the same thing as regular reloading, but I went straight for shift out of habit.

Damkerng T.

Maybe I should restart my browser.

Nico

forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1419605

skullpatrol

i don't like firefox having no back arrow

Nico

10:40

Mine does

Damkerng T.

Eh, but mine has one?

Nico

v 29.0

Damkerng T.

Still at 24.0.

skullpatrol

i must have an older one

Damkerng T.

Oh, now I really know why I can't see the input box quite well.

It didn't got shrunken, it was overlaid by Windows' task bar.

Anonymous

10:42

@DamkerngT. That explains it!

Damkerng T.

I turned on the task bar's Auto Hide feature yesterday.

Anonymous

I switched to Seamonkey after Firefox went all Chrome with their version numbers.

Damkerng T.

And I usually park my mouse at the bottom of the screen.

Anonymous

Firefox has too many capricious UI changes for me.

skullpatrol

what is "UI"?

Anonymous

10:43

User Interface.

Damkerng T.

So, when I maximize a FF window, it will be overlaid by Windows task bar at the bottom.

skullpatrol

icic

Anonymous

When I use Windows, I generally remove the task bar.

Damkerng T.

I tried to take a screenshot yesterday, and I tried to maximize the browser's window as much as I can.

Auto-hide the task bar off, and the problem is gone. Hooray!

By the way, I just learned about Shift-Reload. Thanks guys!

@snailboat Something weird about Chrome is that it consumes more memory than Firefox.

Anonymous

Your friendly neighborhood web dev, at your service.

Fantasier

10:47

Oh, I often do the same (Shift+Reload) with Ctrl+F5

Damkerng T.

I always use F5, and if I really need to have the Shift-Reload effect, I always restart my browser!

So, Shift-Reload is definitely helpful!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. All four thousand tabs? :-)

Damkerng T.

Yes. FF is particularly fast to restart even with all those four thousand tabs!

:D

Nico

@snailboat homeostasis, perhaps? :p

Anonymous

Wow!

Anonymous

10:49

@Nico Being pulled away from my equilibrium state is undesirable.

Anonymous

UI changes have a cost. It is usually not worth it to bear them

Anonymous

(Occasionally it is!)

Nico

That's the argument one of my PhD advisors used to use to justify his use of xywrite well beyond wordperfect and MS word were available :)

XyWrite

XyWrite is a word processor for DOS and Windows modeled on the mainframe-based ATEX typesetting system. Popular with writers and editors for its speed and degree of customization, XyWrite was in its heyday the house word processor in many editorial offices, including the New York Times from 1989 to 1993. XyWrite was developed by David Erickson and marketed by XyQuest from 1982 through 1992, after which it was acquired by The Technology Group. The final version for DOS was 4.18 (1993); for Windows, 4.13. Features * Its file format consists of plain text (IBM437, or so-called "extended ASC...

Anonymous

It's a good argument.

Anonymous

Everything you learn has a cost.

Anonymous

10:53

So perhaps you can think of the effort and time used to learn things as a type of currency.

Nico

He was/is a very pragmatic person!

Anonymous

You can spend them on all sorts of useless things, like Firefox UI changes.

Anonymous

Or you can spend them on something useful.

Anonymous

Clearly we want to keep learning every day. But learning what?

skullpatrol

related to learnig in what way?

Nico

10:54

curiosity makes me a spendthrift

Anonymous

@skullpatrol When you perform an action repeatedly, you practice it. Its mental cost gets lower and lower as that pathway in your mind becomes more optimized--it goes faster and fires with fewer errors

Damkerng T.

It's 32 seconds.

Anonymous

Once you've done something a lot for a long period of time, it has a very low mental cost. You've practiced it to automaticity.

Damkerng T.

I just timed how fast FF can restart on my PC. :D

Anonymous

Right now I have a guitar on my lap. If I weren't typing, I could play scales and chords without thinking about it at all while reading what you're writing.

skullpatrol

10:56

sounds like memorization...

Anonymous

It has a near zero mental cost for me because I've been playing for 24 years.

Damkerng T.

Everything we learned basically is our memory.

Anonymous

There is no reason for me to start learning to play left-handed with the guitar upside down.

Anonymous

If I did, I'd have to start learning all over and break down what I've previously learned.

Nico

practice makes perfect

Anonymous

10:57

In this case, performing an action differently doesn't really buy me anything. It just costs.

Anonymous

And so with the Firefox UI.

skullpatrol

re-inventing the wheel? :-)

Damkerng T.

Knowing how to make a wheel is a good thing. :-)

Anonymous

In some cases the wheel might be slightly more round. In many cases it's slightly more square...

Nico

@snailboat How do you live with the annoying bits in Firefox's UI

like dialogue boxes?

Anonymous

10:59

@Nico By using SeaMonkey

Damkerng T.

Doing x constitutes a gerund clause (or at least the verb phrase of it -- the subject of doing is also the subject of admitted, so it's deleted by A-Equi. Admitted to is the main verb, and the to is required for any object, whether it's a gerund or a noun or a pronoun; the bracketing is [[admitted to] [doing x]]. With an infinitive want to do x, the bracketing is [want [to [do x]]]. — John Lawler 20 hours ago

Nico

Do you use a modified version? I mean, have you changed anything?

Anonymous

I don't use Firefox.

Damkerng T.

I wonder what A-Equi is.

Anonymous

I have not modified SeaMonkey.

Anonymous

11:02

@DamkerngT. One moment

Nico

a modified version of seamonkey

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. umich.edu/~jlawler/cliffs-equi-raising.pdf

Damkerng T.

Seamonkey uses basically the same rendering engine as Firefox, I think.

@snailboat Thanks! :D

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yes, Gecko

Anonymous

Now, if you're going to ask me how I deal with the annoying bits in SeaMonkey's UI, all I've got is "grumbling about it on chat"

Damkerng T.

11:05

LOL

skullpatrol

:D

Anonymous

Unfortunately, browsers are a colossal pile of components tightly coupled together, and you're typically expected to upgrade for security reasons as soon as upgrades are available

Anonymous

This, of course, delivers all of the undesirable bits to you too

Anonymous

But SeaMonkey's undesirable bit delivery engine is particularly slow.

Anonymous

So you accrue those bits at a particularly slow rate :-)

Anonymous

11:07

Firefox, on the other hand, is on top of delivering bits.

skullpatrol

@snailboat do you use chrome?

Anonymous

@skullpatrol Not really. Li'l bit.

Anonymous

I am Set In My Ways.

Anonymous

Actually, the bigger problem is that Chrome is deliberately not flexible enough to do what I want.

Anonymous

But my problem wouldn't matter for 99.9% of everybody.

skullpatrol

11:10

what do you use the most?

Anonymous

SeaMonkey.

Anonymous

11:26

(Of course, I use other browsers when I need to test stuff on them.)

skullpatrol

-7

Q: Attention all soccer fans **World cup 2014** is here!

With the opening of World cup 2014 quickly approaching; may I suggest this site for the international StackExchange community to discuss the various aspects of this celebration?

Hip hip hooray -7 and counting :D

Anonymous

Hee hee hee, -6 :-)

skullpatrol

Thanks pal :D

Damkerng T.

It should be -5 or better. :-)

skullpatrol

11:41

grrrreat

soccer is a beautiful game

Damkerng T.

Any team I should keep my eye on especially, this year?

Anonymous

npr.org/books/titles/145461486/…

skullpatrol

@DamkerngT. All eyes are on Spain

Damkerng T.

@skullpatrol Thanks!

@snailboat That is quite in line to what I speculate (on language learning, and everything else).

Bookmarked, and thanks!

See, I can learn to bookmark, too. ;-)

skullpatrol

Automaticity

__NOTOC__ Automaticity is the ability to do things without occupying the mind with the low-level details required, allowing it to become an automatic response pattern or habit. It is usually the result of learning, repetition, and practice. Examples of automaticity are common activities such as walking, speaking, bicycle-riding, assembly-line work, and driving a car (see Highway hypnosis). After an activity is sufficiently practiced, it is possible to focus the mind on other activities or thoughts while undertaking an automatized activity (for example, holding a conversation or plannin...

short and sweet^

Damkerng T.

11:48

Ahh... sweet indeed!

skullpatrol

:-)

Anonymous

One of the challenges in learning to play an instrument is staying focused when you practice.

Anonymous

It's very easy to just play without paying attention once you're used to playing.

Damkerng T.

The same goes to swimming, driving, and playing sports.

I think playing piano would be the same.

skullpatrol

Yes, it free's the high levels of thought to see the forest :-)

Anonymous

11:50

Yes, piano is the same.

Damkerng T.

Though I'm sure that if I started learning how to play piano today, I'd have no chance to outplay those talented ones who learned how to play since their childhoods.

Seeing the forest is important!

Anonymous

I've played piano since I was little. But I've never applied myself to it as seriously as other instruments.

Anonymous

So I'm probably not one of the talented ones you mention :-)

skullpatrol

@DamkerngT. But usually the trees are in the way.

Anonymous

I'm sure you can learn to play piano if you want, though.

Damkerng T.

11:52

Ahh... that's true!

skullpatrol

I see, you can not see, the forest for the trees.

Anonymous

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19785923

Anonymous

I've always been a trees sort of person, sadly.

Anonymous

A change of scenery helps me, sometimes. Going for a walk outside helps me see the big picture.

skullpatrol

We all start out that way..

Anonymous

11:54

I've gotten a lot of good coding done in my head while I'm outside.

Anonymous

I will forever be detail-oriented.

skullpatrol

in math they call it the frog vs the bird

Damkerng T.

I think we all switch to work on different levels of details often enough.

Oh, frogs and birds sounds interesting! But what does it mean exactly?

Bird eye view?

skullpatrol

yes^

Anonymous

ams.org/notices/200902/rtx090200212p.pdf

Damkerng T.

11:56

Ah, thanks! I think I get it.

Oh, a whole PDF for that. Thanks!

What do they call those half-frog-half-bird people?

skullpatrol

humans

Anonymous

frirds? brogs?

Anonymous

@skullpatrol Oh, clever :-)

Damkerng T.

Nice, both!

skullpatrol

I'm only human.

Feynman once said that he liked to keep his feet firmly planted on the ground with experimental evidence.

Damkerng T.

12:01

I always want to read more about Feynman. His name is also a fine name.

skullpatrol

He said that he was not a giant like Einstein, who could also do the same; but have his head up in the clouds.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh, you should read Feynman's Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! and What Do You Care What Other People Think?

Damkerng T.

That's good advice. I think I've heard the first one. Just the title sounds interesting enough already!

skullpatrol

His lectures are great too.

Given to a first year class in physics

at Cal Tech, I think...

Damkerng T.

Oh, it's now available online! feynmanlectures.caltech.edu

I think it's just been available only recently.

> However, we want to be clear that this edition is only free to read online, and this posting does not transfer any right to download all or any portion of The Feynman Lectures on Physics for any purpose.

The note is quite clear why I couldn't find it before.

skullpatrol

12:11

The accompanying problem sets are in the library too...

Damkerng T.

Wow! This is nice to read!

skullpatrol

You must do the problems to see the stuff in action.

Damkerng T.

Maybe his Volume III can help me to understand quantum mechanics.

Hmm.. there is no problem sets on that website, I think.

skullpatrol

Reading music on paper is not the same as hearing it played.

Damkerng T.

nods

skullpatrol

12:15

4 mins ago, by skullpatrol

The accompanying problem sets are in the library too...

Damkerng T.

I think we don't have them in the library I can access.

skullpatrol

What I cannot create, I do not understand.

Know how to solve every problem that has been solved.

on his blackboard at the time of death in February 1988

Damkerng T.

Is this one, feynmanlectures.info/FLP_Original_Course_Notes, a collection of his problem sets?

@skullpatrol What a note!

skullpatrol

@DamkerngT. Eureka!

Damkerng T.

Hooray!

skullpatrol

12:24

nice work, and fast too

Damkerng T.

Thanks!

skullpatrol

12:38

Einstein was a giant: his head was in the clouds, but his feet were on the ground. Those of us who are not so tall have to choose!

Damkerng T.

Oh, that quote is something!

skullpatrol

Indeed.

On that note I have to leave, see ya.

Damkerng T.

Have a nice day. Thank you for everything. And see you soon!

1

Q: what's the meaning of "ground to"

what's the meaning of "ground to" eg She has even called for scholars to set aside the long-held notion of “an Orthodox population ground to artistic muteness by Crusader oppression

meaning

The part "migration rejected from english.stackexchange.com 12 hours ago" is strange because the question seems to be posted on ELU first. (Am I missing something here?)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. 1. Posted on ELU. 2. Closed on ELU and migrated to ELL. 3. Closed on ELL, which rejects the migration.

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I see. I guess that there was a gap between 2 and 3 because it seems like Hellion had enough time to answer the question.

Anonymous

12:52

@DamkerngT. I think Hellion answered on ELU.

Damkerng T.

Oh! Now it's clear. I really forgot that possibility. Thanks!

Anonymous

I need to gather another 150 reputation so I can see deleted answers on ELU.

Damkerng T.

It shouldn't be that hard for you, I think. :D

I believe that it wouldn't be too hard for me either, if I really tried.

I mean I saw ELL kind of questions on ELU often enough.

Anonymous

I have 49 answers, 2 questions, and 2850 reputation.

Anonymous

So I need to post around 3 answers, I suppose, give or take.

Damkerng T.

12:57

:D

On average, my answers on ELL got only about 2-3 upvotes.

Anonymous

Hmm.

Anonymous

I have 326 answers on ELL.

Damkerng T.

So I think it will be a few months before I will reach 10000 rep points, given that I answered one question every few days.

Fish is really a cat thing.

(Hagu got interested by the fish I'm eating.)

Anonymous

I have 1548 upvotes and 5 downvotes.

Anonymous

So my (mean) average is about 4.7 upvotes per question.

Damkerng T.

13:02

I think your real rep would be beyond 20k already.

Anonymous

My median is 4 upvotes.

Anonymous

I've only given 4000 in bounties, so it would be 17660

Anonymous

My mean upvotes per answer are slightly higher on ELU because of popular questions

Damkerng T.

14:02

I decided to delete my snob answer on ELU. The bigot question on ELL urged me.

Damkerng T.

14:35

1

Q: The difference between "come at a cost of/to"

Is there any differences between "come at a cost of" and "come at a cost to"? Like Energy efficiency may come at the cost of consumer confidence Free drug samples come at a cost to patients. Insects also readily evolve resistance to chemical insecticides, and increased use of these...

meaning-in-context

> Insects also readily evolve resistance to chemical insecticides, and increased use of these chemicals would come at a great cost to human health.

a great cost to wasn't surprised me.

What surprised me was the use of increased use of these chemicals without an article before increased use.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Your whuh?

Anonymous

(My nonstandard wh-word, a reduction of what, is also spelled wha, but as far as I know doesn't have a standard spelling)

Damkerng T.

I deleted it, that answer on ELU of mine. It had gotten 3 downvotes already.

After reading a question on ELL asking if calling someone a "white trash" makes us a bigot, I think I'd better delete it.

Anonymous

Oh, I don't think I saw it.

Anonymous

Oh, wait, I remember

Anonymous

14:49

Does using the term white trash really make someone a bigot?

Anonymous

I mean, I don't use that term myself.

Damkerng T.

I won't say so. (And that's why I deleted mine, too.)

Anonymous

But it could signal that the speaker is a bigot.

Anonymous

Depending on context and how it's used, I think.

Damkerng T.

nods

0

Q: "Have you seen her?" or "Did you see her?"

I already knew that we use the present perfect for an action in the past with a result now. Consider the following questions: "I'm looking for Paula. Have you seen her?" "I'm looking for Paula. Did you see her?" Is there any difference between these two questions for this specific action (ver...

present-perfect

This one is interesing.

My default is "Have you seen her?"

But I think some people might say "Did you see her?"

Actually, I think both are possible, but not 100% sure about people's choices.

Anonymous

14:51

The latter sounds fine informally in AmE

Damkerng T.

That is what I guess too.

Anonymous

But I think only informally

Anonymous

If I were called upon to speak proper-like, I'd say have

Anonymous

I'm trying to find questions to answer on English.SE

Anonymous

Hah, Kris downvoted my answer about apostrophes

Damkerng T.

14:55

Eh? Spanish?

Anonymous

45 secs ago, by snailboat

I'm trying to find questions to answer on English.SE

Anonymous

*points*

Damkerng T.

Oh, Stack Exchange.

Somehow, the S made me think of Spanish. Hehe. :D

Anonymous

Oh, that hadn't occurred to me

Anonymous

Isn't .se Sweden? :-)

Damkerng T.

14:56

I think I might blame it on Nico. :-)

pointing finger

But yes, you're right, I think.

Anonymous

That used to confuse me when I first joined. People said .SE, but I thought that meant Sweden.

Anonymous

Of course, I could tell from context that it didn't, but it took my brain extra effort.

Anonymous

Now I'm used to it.

Damkerng T.

That is quite reasonable.

But, wait, how can you know who downvoted you?

Anonymous

Just an inference.

Anonymous

14:59

It could be wrong!

Damkerng T.

Ah, I see, I see.

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