English Language Learners

Damkerng T.

05:40

Hello @A-friend.

Ice Girl

Hi

Fantasier

Hello!

Damkerng T.

Hi @IceGirl

Hello everyone!

Ice Girl

:)

Damkerng T.

The name A-friend is very curious. Is it from Disclosure, I wonder? :-)

Ice Girl

05:42

:)

Fantasier

(:

And my Collins COBUILD Advanced Dictionary software suddenly starts itself out of the blue. I'm scared :|

Damkerng T.

Huh? It's alive!

Fantasier

Noooooooo

Ice Girl

Calm down

np

Damkerng T.

Maybe it knows that this week is National Library Week!

I plan to skim through 30 books at least this week.

At least. :)

This week is so special!

0

Q: What techniques can I adopt to achieve a good band score in IELTS when I have a very short time in my hand?

My teacher took a test of mine and said that I can achieve a score of 5.5 If I sit for IELTS without any preparation. But I am not being able to take things further. I need to improve my skills to get 6.5. What can I do to achieve that? I only have 30 days in my hand and I have my job also. Wha...

learning

Fantasier

05:48

How?

Damkerng T.

I can access everything on OUP freely!

Fantasier

Only in America I think?

Damkerng T.

Next book to skim: Foundations of Language: Brain, Meaning, Grammar, Evolution

I checked last night. I can view all of the books too!

Only this week! (or to be specific from now on to April 19)

Fantasier

Oh! It works.

Kinda cool

Damkerng T.

Yay!

Ice Girl

05:51

You are happy today!

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. I actually flagged that question as off-topic, although I'd be glad to help.

Damkerng T.

Yes. It's because I can read many books I couldn't before!

@Fantasier It's strange to me because I think it should be off-topic by today's standard.

Fantasier

Are you gonna read the whole OED?

Damkerng T.

However, I took a look at the OP's previous question, and the question appeared to be just fine back then.

@Fantasier No, I won't read dictionaries, of course. :-)

But there are several interesting books!

(Too bad that CGEL isn't there.)

Ice Girl

Can you tell me some of them?

I mean the name of the books

that you read

Damkerng T.

05:54

Go to here: global.oup.com/academic/librarians/national-library-week/…;

5 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

Next book to skim: Foundations of Language: Brain, Meaning, Grammar, Evolution

> Lexical-Functional Grammar, Head-Driven Phrase Structure Grammar, Autosegmental Phonology, Autolexical Syntax, Role and Reference Grammar, Construction Grammar, and Optimality Theory.

Hey, they're all in there!

Fantasier

Speaking of books of this kind, I haven't finished The Language Instinct yet.

Damkerng T.

I haven't read that one yet.

(By the way, I think Chomsky's claims are not entirely correct.)

Fantasier

They may not be entirely correct, but they sure open a new perspective.

Damkerng T.

On that, I agree.

Perhaps because of him, mathematics became involved in linguistics.

A-friend

@DamkerngT. Hello Damkerng

:)

Damkerng T.

06:04

Oh, hello! :-)

I see you're still working on by and until.

A-friend

This is the first time I'm using a chat room in my whole life. Believe me. :))

Yea

They're really frustrating for me

Fantasier

A learner's dictionary can help you with that, I think.

Damkerng T.

Hah!

A-friend

The topic sounds easy to natives like you but for us non-natives...

you see

:)

Damkerng T.

We can talk about anything we like in here.

Fantasier

06:06

Just FYI, We (Damkerng and I) are not native English speakers.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I should have said it sooner. I'm not a native English speaker.

A-friend

It's interesting. SO is it possible to ask thhe question right here?

Ahah.

Damkerng T.

We're all language users here. :-)

A-friend

But it seems you are following everything on the site. Am I right?

;P

Damkerng T.

Casually, anything, yes. :-)

Fantasier

06:07

Weird order I made.

A-friend

Wow. How free you aree

good for you

Damkerng T.

:-)

A-friend

I wish I could be as free as one like you is

Damkerng T.

You can!

A-friend

Where are you from?

Fantasier

06:08

Thailand.

A-friend

Noo, that's impossible

Damkerng T.

I live in Bangkok.

A-friend

I'm at work and simmoltaneously I'm studying too

Damkerng T.

How so?

I see.

A-friend

you cannot imagine sometimes how it can be difficult

Damkerng T.

06:09

The way I see it language learning is pretty much like sports.

A-friend

It seems you're an athlete ;)

Did I guess right?

Damkerng T.

Hehe. I was, I think. :-)

A-friend

nice

Bangkok

Damkerng T.

Yep.

Fantasier

0

Q: `onomatopoeia` related to sound, breath

This is so embarrassing to ask you about sound which is related to having sex. Its about my translation assignment so... Is there any sound related to breath? I think panting is quite far from implying sex. I found some words like; boom, bang, smash, thump but I want to find something related ...

idiom-request

A-friend

06:10

I love your country and hope one day come there

Fantasier

Actually interesting.

Damkerng T.

You're welcome!

Fantasier

You'll be welcomed!

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier First word come to mind, moaning.

But for "onomatopoeia", heehee...

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. Well, yeah, but may be not much 'breath'?

Damkerng T.

06:11

huff?

Fantasier

puff ? (and pie!)

Damkerng T.

Pie can make me hungry. Not good! :-)

Fantasier

Damkerng T.

It looks like Jay is writing an erotic story or something like that.

Fantasier

He or she is translating?

Damkerng T.

06:14

A-ha! We both are right!

Fantasier

> Its about my translation assignment so...

Damkerng T.

Maybe, I think they mentioned so.

I'm more curious about their teacher. :-)

Fantasier

(But they may be lying!)

A-friend

Hey guys, is it possible to ask / poke someone to answer your question a little faster or one have to wait while someone answers?
I mean in some other forums there is such a possibility to report an old un-responded question to be answered. Is there such a possibility here?

Fantasier

(Ignore me)

A-friend

06:15

Just excuse my interruption :)

Fantasier

@A-friend I don't think there is.

Damkerng T.

@A-friend Usually, ELL will give you some answers.

A-friend

OK; thanks. ;)

What's that?

Damkerng T.

Up until now, ELL answers over 99% of the questions.

Fantasier

Which that?

A-friend

06:16

I mean ELL. I don't have any idea about it. :(

Fantasier

ELL is this place, this site! ell.stackexchange.com

Damkerng T.

How good the questions are, is another matter.

Fantasier

Well, in Damkerng's message, it refers to the people here.

Damkerng T.

You're in ELL's chat room. The main site (where you posted your questions) is called ELL. (Or sometimes just "the main".)

A-friend

Aha, ELL stands for English Language Learner (an abbreviation)

Damkerng T.

06:18

Yes. I think you can write @somebody in comments, but that's not ethical I think.

@A-friend Yeah! You got it!

A-friend

I'm not familiar with the jargon here

:)

OK

Damkerng T.

I think ELL was designed so that anyone can answer any questions.

A-friend

And how about an old post?

Fantasier

What about it?

A-friend

E.g. I had set an old question and had posted it on the site as a new thread. I find something puzzling after asking that question. can it be considered OK if I add some other related questions e.g. confusing context to that old thread?

Is there such a possibility for it to be ignored?

Damkerng T.

06:21

If it's still about the same question, you can.

A-friend

Or I can be positive to get my response?

OK

:)

Damkerng T.

The downside is that there is always the possibility of being ignored.

A-friend

So, what shall I do then?

Ask it in a new thread?

Damkerng T.

Make your question clear and to the point.

That's the best way to get good answers.

And we have something called "bounty".

You can offer a bounty to attract people's attention.

A-friend

And what's that?

Damkerng T.

06:24

(Minimum is 50 rep points, I think.)

A-friend

So what does it mean?

What can I do having such a rep?

Damkerng T.

When people think that your questions or answers good, they will upvote you.

A-friend

And that will increase my reputation?

Damkerng T.

+5 rep(utation) points for each question upvote, +10 for each answer upvote, +15 for each accepted answer.

Yes.

Fantasier

And +2 just every time when you accept an answer.

Damkerng T.

06:26

See, I'm going to upvote one of your questions. let me see, which one is good for me ... :)

A-friend

:))

Lool

You're cool Damkerng

:))

Damkerng T.

A-ha! I will upvote this one: Since and present perfect tense

A-friend

:)))

So what will happen if I have 50 reputations?

Damkerng T.

I think it's useful for learners. I overlooked it the first time I saw it.

A-friend

What's bounty and it's usage?

Damkerng T.

06:27

Nothing. :-)

I think there is the grace period of two days.

After two days, if you think you still don't get any good answer, you can start offering a bounty.

There will be a button (or a link) for offering a bounty by then.

A-friend

Aha, I was looking for a way that makes me able to access to someone and request them to answer my question and I was thinking that bounty is an opening :))

Damkerng T.

Yes. :-)

But usually, within 24 hours, you should get at least one answer on ELL.

A-friend

And what does starting a bounty do?

Fantasier

It's basically giving out your hard-earned rep to the answerer of the best answer.

Damkerng T.

Oh, that's an interesting question.

Yes. And, everyone will see your bounty offering very clearly.

It's kinda like you're advertising your own question. -- Something like: Look! Here I have a lot of rep points for you if you answer my question.

Fantasier

06:32

So it attracts people because answering the question will give them (your) rep. A question with a bounty is also put in easy-to-spot positions on the site.

Damkerng T.

Oh, the math stack has 56 bounty questions!

$Mathematics$

A-friend

Aha, I can spend my reps as cache and instead get my responses. Am I right?

Damkerng T.

Some of them offers 500 rep points!

@A-friend Yes. That's the point of the rep points. :-)

A-friend

So here we have a marketing like forum and people are exchanging their reps

:) nice

Very smart idea

Damkerng T.

Heehee.

Right.

A-friend

06:35

congra to the designers and develpopers of the page

Fantasier

Well, reps also give askers confidence to trust answers. Answerers with high reps usually are reliable.

Damkerng T.

That's the point about the votes.

Anonymous

Reputation mainly means that you've participated a lot

Damkerng T.

nods

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. Which give reps, too?

Damkerng T.

06:37

I just hope that we'll have more and more users on ELL.

@Fantasier Exactly! :-)

A-friend

Bravo

So I shouldn't rely on every answer to my questions here

Right?

:)

Damkerng T.

I think it's the same everywhere on the web.

Anonymous

Right--use your own judgment

A-friend

No no

Not everywhere

Damkerng T.

I mean we shouldn't always trust the answers blindly.

A-friend

06:43

There are some specific forumes where people who answer your question through a very severe monitoring system are under control. Admins/moderators control them and have very harsh and difficult rules even for asking a question. e.g. a template and some specific structures for making a question to follow their construction

:)

I see what you mean

But here everything is different and I really admire this forum

Fantasier

@A-friend That doesn't make the answers completely reliable. Reliability doesn't depend on how harsh or strict the system is, but on how much answerers know about issues.

A-friend

Its a kind of more user-friendly forum

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier +1

A-friend

:)

Fantasier

Usually, on a complicated issue, you will eventually need to do your own research, too.

A-friend

06:45

I see what you mean, but the background and the style of a page can be a good way to realize some facts about it

Damkerng T.

I think you will say that it's "user-friendly" until you get the first downvote. :-)

Wait until you get one. :-)

A-friend

:)

Anonymous

Fora everywhere have their own politics

Fantasier

So the fancy plural form is fora!

Damkerng T.

I choose to stay here because a) it's more open than other places (e.g. forums), which makes it closer to real English; and b) we have a lot of knowledgeable people who appear to be more knowledgeable than people I observed elsewhere.

A-friend

06:49

Ok, I had a lot of fun with you guys here. I hope you had a nice time too.
Forum --> plural=> Fora
Nice. I didn't know that.
Bye for now.
I have to perform a task here in the office.

;)

Damkerng T.

And c) we also have EL&U as a bonus.

See you later! Have a nice day!

Fantasier

See you!

(Wait, I haven't addressed his by-until issue as intended until now) facepalm

A-friend

You too. Just when you are here. I mean you all: Fantasier / damkerng / snailboat

Damkerng T.

Thanks.

facepalm too

-- AFK to grab some food. Blame it on the pie!

jackopen

07:34

grammargamble.com/gameover.php this is a nice link to learen english grammer; are there any other good interactive/live/chat site/application/software/website for english learning ?

Damkerng T.

I don't know anything about that. By the way, it's spelled grammar.

Awal Garg

09:28

hello

@snailboat Would like to continue the discussion whenever you are back...

Damkerng T.

Hello

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. hi

hey, you are the room owner, right?

Damkerng T.

I'm one of them, yes. :-)

Awal Garg

ok, well, i have just now started a room on alchemy as well

would you like to give me some tips

Damkerng T.

But a room owner is nothing very special, imo. :-)

Awal Garg

09:31

@DamkerngT. right

if it is a small room like mine

yours is a big one, a better one

Damkerng T.

I think being friendly is enough in most cases.

This chat room is not very big.

EL&U's chat room is much bigger.

And ones about programming are always big, I think. :-)

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. yup, they are

they are more crowded than big

Damkerng T.

Oh, yes. That's right.

Very crowded.

Awal Garg

so, i should just welcome any one who comes in?

Damkerng T.

Most of the time.

Awal Garg

09:34

(although no one is coming in right now)

ok, thanks

Damkerng T.

No problem. :D

Nico

12:30

1

Q: Use of the present subjunctive

I know that for all verbs the structure of present subjunctive is the bare infinitive. I also know that typically it is used after two structures: Some verbs (ask, demand, insist, etc.); Some expressions (it is desirable, essential, vital, etc.) + that. Would you please help me with the fol...

grammar

It sounds to me as someone trying to translate subjunctive from their own language into English.

Do I understand correctly? Lucian suggests that the following use the subjunctive mood:

- I ask you to leave

- It is important that you go

Damkerng T.

I believe so.

Nico

Do you believe those sentences use the subjunctive? or you believe he's translating from he's own language?

Damkerng T.

Both.

Perhaps Lucian was inspired by another question on ELL.

Nico

- It is important that he goes

Damkerng T.

> I insist that he leave now.

Nico

12:34

In Spanish they are subjunctive

Damkerng T.

In English too, but it's not very common nowadays.

Nico

but in English they seem inflected as simple present.

Damkerng T.

From Wikipedia,

> Occasionally a present perfect subjunctive is seen, as in It is important that he have completed two years of Spanish before graduation.

These two are possible in English:

> With present subjunctive: It's important that he be cured.

> With should: It's important that he should be cured.

In any case, I don't think that it's a good idea to write be and claim subjunctive in English.

I would reserve subjunctives for special occasions, such as legalese.

Nico

I think I had misunderstood Lucian's question.

First time I read it, I thought that a simple counter-example would be "the question is to be or not to be", but now I understand he's talking about finite clauses.

As in "god save the queen".

Damkerng T.

Yes. That's a subjunctive too.

I'm sure that he was provoked by this question: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/21254/…

(I assume that Lucian is a he. :-)

Nico

14:17

Hi everyone!

I'm thinking about deleting one of my answers:

0

A: Here "would have + past participle" construction is used to express an assumption or expectation about the past?

The first thing I would say about modal verbs is that their usage extends over many different contexts and so any general rules are bound to fail when taken out of context. Your question makes reference to the use of 'will' and 'would' to express certainty. Although 'will' and 'would' share this...

The original question has changed and the answer doesn't make sense there any longer. But before I do, I would appreciate if anyone could point out any obvious mistakes, or things I should avoid repeating.

Damkerng T.

I think this part is incorrect: I'm sure they will have been looking for those bank robbers.

> A： We saw a police helicopter yesterday morning.
B： I'm sure they will have been looking for those bank robbers.

The event already happened.

BRB in a few minutes.

> I'm sure they were looking for those bank robbers.

This is the basic form, if you're sure.

Because the (un)certainty has already been moved out from the subordinate clause, the tense in the subordinate clause should reflect the true event.

@snailboat I'm glad that you answered that infinitive question!

(I was gathering information in order to answer that question, but I don't have to answer it now. :-)

What a relief!

Anonymous

14:48

Both would and will are possible in that sentence, though neither is necessary

Damkerng T.

Oh! Even when the event was in the past?

Anonymous

Will is felicitous if you believe they're still out there searching

Damkerng T.

And if they aren't?

Anonymous

What matters is your belief, not reality

Damkerng T.

I see. I took it as an event in the past.

But yes, it's possible.

Searching for a fugitive could be several days long.

Anonymous

14:51

You obviously know about the bank robbers from an external source of information because you said those bank robbers

Anonymous

It's not a stretch to imagine that the search is ongoing if you haven't heard news of their capture yet

Damkerng T.

Now I can see that will is also possible.

Anonymous

But this all depends on context (hence "felicitous" rather than "grammatical")

Damkerng T.

Then again, I'm sure they will have been looking for those bank robbers yesterday. is not felicitous, I think.

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