English Language Learners

Anonymous

02:09

@StoneyB Does it change anything if it's "than ~~what~~ would otherwise have been the case"?

Anonymous

~~what~~ rather than it

Damkerng T.

Umm... What is this Unicoins thing?

Anonymous

I don't know. Another fad cryptocurrency, by the sound of it

Anonymous

But I've never heard of it

Damkerng T.

It's on ELL!

> Improve your experience on English Language Learners Stack Exchange with powerful addons!

With our custom currency, Unicoins, you can now purchase exclusive power-ups that enhance your stay on this site and customize it to your own taste.

Choose buy powers to inspect our selection of currently available power-ups. Spent all your Unicoins already? Do not despair: Click buy coins to purchase additional Unicoins for an all-time low price, or click mine coins to earn more Unicoins for free!

I've got 75 Unicoins. Probably 100 reps for one Unicoin, I think.

> Availability may be limited based on factors. Prohibited where void. Stack Exchange Inc. does not endorse or encourage behaviors that should not be endorsed or encouraged. Not legal tender except in localities with citizenship rights for unicorns. Stack Exchange Inc. reserves the right to amend, cancel, or continue this promotion for any reason, including, but not limited to, any reason that would interfere with the invariance, continuation, or non-existence thereof.

Oh, I see! It's April Fool's Day!

I can divide everyone's rep points down by ten. :D

Anonymous

02:32

Hah, April Fool's Day, eh?

Anonymous

Not in my time zone, yet, though it seems traditional to run April Fool's Day pranks for the entire 47 hours that it's April 1 in some time zone

Anonymous

And by "traditional", I mean "has been done for the last 10 or so years mainly on tech sites"

Anonymous

Hmm... I just gained 1 reputation.

Damkerng T.

What should I pick? :-)

Anonymous

I wish it told me why. It means I villainously downvoted something, which then got removed.

Anonymous

02:34

Most likely.

Anonymous

But it doesn't tell me what, and I want to know. :-)

Damkerng T.

Very likely, I think.

@snailboat I just Adopt-a-tag "grammar". Can you see my avatar alongside with all "grammar" tags on ELL?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Um, I don't know, I don't have ELL open at the moment!

Anonymous

I have to wall stuff off to get stuff done, because otherwise I'll obsessively sit on one website forever ;-)

Anonymous

So chat is okay for me right now since I can multitask, but ELL itself is off-limits temporarily

Damkerng T.

02:47

I see. I was just curious. Maybe it (the effect of the tag) happens only to me.

0

Q: What is the meaning of 'life'?

Seeing that I have 75 Unicoins, I decided to buy "Guaranteed answer" because it claims *"No more need to wait: We guarantee you an answer on all of your questions." I'm very curious to know what answer of the question "What is the meaning of 'life'?" would be. (PS. I opted for "inspirational" an...

meaning

Anonymous

04:34

> "I've never eaten it, but I don't think I want to."
> "There are many things I don't think I want to eat, that among them."

Anonymous

In the first sentence, to licenses VP ellipsis: "I've never eaten it, but I don't think I want to [eat it]."

Anonymous

In the second sentence, it doesn't: *"There are many things I don't think I want to, that among them."

Anonymous

But if I stress I, it seems okay to me: "There are many things I don't think I want to, that among them."

Anonymous

I'm not sure why.

Damkerng T.

Probably if the context was clear that you're talking about "eat", ellipsis would make sense, I think.

Anonymous

04:40

That's what's usually given as the basic rule ("if it's recoverable from context"), but I can't figure out how it applies in this case.

Anonymous

I guess stressing I makes it clear that it's contrasting with what the other speaker said, so eat must follow?

Damkerng T.

I think it depends on the context. Hmm...

Anonymous

Well, I just gave the context.

Damkerng T.

Your context is fine, I believe. (To me it's definitely fine.) I'm thinking about the case that you didn't stress on "I".

Anonymous

Hmm!

Damkerng T.

04:46

Suppose that in a restaurant, a friend asked you "Do you want to try this menu?" (pointing to some picture), and you replied "There are many things I don't think I want to, that among them."

Anonymous

Seems weird.

Damkerng T.

07:26

"I bet you too" doesn't make sense! That would mean that I had bet some money or something, and now I was betting who ever I was talking to. — curiousdannii 2 mins ago

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Or it means I'm using you as a wager, in addition to whoever else I'm already using as a wager ;-)

Damkerng T.

I bet that "I bet you too" in a proper context is okay. (I bet you too can do this and that.)

Anonymous

Nope.

Anonymous

Bet is neither an auxiliary nor an infinitive marker so it doesn't license VP ellipsis...

Anonymous

Well, plus it's got stuff after it.

Damkerng T.

07:28

What about: I bet you too can do this and that.?

Anonymous

That's fine.

Damkerng T.

So can do this and that can't be left out?

Anonymous

It can't.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... strange. What if I deleted more? I bet you.

Anonymous

No go.

Anonymous

07:32

What's strange about it, by the way?

Damkerng T.

Because Betcha! is common.

Anonymous

But you can't just go replacing betcha with bet you.

Anonymous

> You betcha!
> *You bet you!

Damkerng T.

That's why I feel it's strange. :-)

Anonymous

Oh!

Damkerng T.

07:36

?

Anonymous

"You betcha" is a pretty strange sentence, isn't it?

Anonymous

I feel like it's short for "You bet your [something]"

Damkerng T.

Nope. (I substitute it with "You bet you (can).")

Anonymous

Well, "You bet you" isn't a sentence.

Anonymous

Growing up, my mom always said "You bet your bippy!"

Damkerng T.

07:37

:D

Anonymous

And people say "You betcher!"

Anonymous

Well, I suppose that's usually "You betcher bippy" or such.

Anonymous

I don't know where this betcha came from.

Damkerng T.

I think it's from "Bet ya".

Anonymous

You bet ya what?

Damkerng T.

07:39

That's why I think "I bet you too" makes sense.

Anonymous

Ah, I see!

Anonymous

But it doesn't. :-)

Damkerng T.

I see.

Anonymous

I also think that "betcha" without a subject has "I" as an implied subject. At least sometimes...? "Betcha can't eat that many hot dogs in one minute." "Betcha can't eat just one!"

Anonymous

But "You betcha!"? Where does that come from...? It's just weird.

Anonymous

07:41

== "Absolutely!"

Damkerng T.

But people do say it anyway.

Anonymous

Do say what?

Anonymous

"You betcha!"?

Damkerng T.

Yup. "You betcha!"

Anonymous

It's not weird as in sounds funny. It doesn't sound strange at all. It's just inexplicable.

Anonymous

07:43

Sorry, I should probably be more clear about that.

Anonymous

Here is what I think.

Anonymous

"You betcha!" is obviously fine. But I don't know where it comes from.

Anonymous

Macmillan Dictionary says it's from "You bet you", which makes zero sense to me.

Anonymous

Is that supposed to imply that in some dialect "You bet you" makes sense?

Damkerng T.

Hah! It uses the same definition I thought!

Anonymous

07:44

macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/betcha

Damkerng T.

> "Are you going to the party?" – "You betcha!"

I think "You bet!" makes more sense than "You betcha!".

Anonymous

> "Are you going to the party?" - "You bet you!" - "I bet what now?"

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Nope. They make the same amount of sense to me.

Damkerng T.

But if "You betcha!" ~ "Yes", well, perhaps that's the way it is.

Anonymous

"I'd like to buy a new car. Do you have any models here I can test drive?" "You betcha! Right this way!"

Damkerng T.

07:48

Oh, this reminds of a phrase in Thai, which also doesn't make sense if we tries to analyze it.

Anonymous

I still feel like it's somehow short for something like "You bet your sweet bippy!" But probably not bippy. I bet the phrase predates Laugh-In.

Damkerng T.

> "Can I trust you?" "You can trust edible sweet!"

Anonymous

8

Q: What phrase is "you betcha" a descendant of?

"You bet you"? That's the closest I could think of. Or is it "you bet yourself", with the "self" omitted so it's quicker to say? Or is it something else altogether?

phrases slang structure

Damkerng T.

Now should I believe UD or Macmillan? :-)

Anonymous

Their unsubstantiated theory agrees with mine!

Damkerng T.

07:50

It seems so!

Anonymous

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/betcha

Damkerng T.

Aha! You bet your bottom dollar.

Anonymous

Yeah, that's an old phrase.

Anonymous

150+ years old

Anonymous

Ah, the OED lists betcha and betcher as one entry (although I think they're probably distinct but related)

Anonymous

07:53

And it says from bet you or bet your (life)

Damkerng T.

"You" was bet indeed!

In a sense, "your (life)" ~ "you", I think.

Now it makes sense to me.

You betcha! !~ You bet you (can)!

You betcha! ~ You bet you!

Anonymous

> In various (orig. U.S.) slang asseverative phrases meaning: to stake everything or all one's resources (upon the truth of an assertion). 1852 San Francisco Sun. Dispatch 18 Jan. 1/5 He's around when there's money in the pipe—bet your life on t-h-a-t.

Damkerng T.

You betcher! ~ You bet your (life)!

Anonymous

> [...] Also in corrupt forms (I, you, etc.) betcha, betcher, representing colloq. pronunciation of bet you or your (life). 1922 ‘R. Crompton’ Just—William ix. 174 You betcher life! 1936 Wodehouse Laughing Gas v. 61 ‘You're home-sick, what?’ ‘You betcher.’

Damkerng T.

Reading "I bet you too" again, it doesn't make sense to me anymore.

Anonymous

07:57

Yay!

Damkerng T.

Thank you!

Anonymous

I learned stuff, too! :-)

Damkerng T.

Both UD and Macmillan are correct! Yay!

Anonymous

Here's another one:

Anonymous

> Well, I never!

Anonymous

08:00

Never what?

Damkerng T.

Whatever just have said, I think.

Anonymous

To this day I don't know, because people who never never finish their sentences.

Damkerng T.

555

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It's a valid response to a nonverbal insult.

Anonymous

idioms.thefreedictionary.com/I+never!

Damkerng T.

08:02

@snailboat phrase not found

@snailboat Umm... like a bird?

Anonymous

Possibly because I typed an exclamation point after the end.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I see. I found it!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. You can flip someone the bird, but a bird itself is not a nonverbal insult

Anonymous

The bird is trapped inside the idiom and cannot leave :-(

Damkerng T.

I think I've seen someone was given a bird in some movies. Not sure if that's "a" or "the".

Perhaps the, as you suggested.

Anonymous

08:06

@DamkerngT. I don't know. Is giving someone a bird an idiom?

Damkerng T.

I think I heard it the first time in Top Gun, maybe.

Anonymous

idioms.thefreedictionary.com/give+the+bird

Anonymous

This one has give!

Anonymous

I wouldn't be shocked to hear a instead of the because the article has no semantic value whatsoever

Damkerng T.

So it's the the!

Anonymous

08:07

But most people follow convention and run with the

Anonymous

If you told me you gave someone a bird, I'd think you gave them an avian gift.

Anonymous

Hopefully a zebra finch, because those are adorable.

Damkerng T.

> Charlie: Eh, lieutenant, what were you doing there?
Goose: Communicating.
Maverick: Communicating. Keeping up foreign relations. You know, giving him the bird!
Goose: [Charlie looks puzzled, so Goose clarifies] You know, the finger
Charlie: Yes, I know the finger, Goose.
Goose: I-I'm sorry, I hate it when it does that, I'm sorry. Excuse me.

Anonymous

But giving someone the bird I think I'd understand.

Damkerng T.

Tom Cruise was Maverick in the movie.

Anonymous

08:09

Hmm. Maybe it does have some semantic value.

Anonymous

It is, after all, the middle finger.

Anonymous

I can't read people's minds, so I don't know if people interpret the as having any meaning.

Anonymous

I saw Top Gun when I was, um, what year did it come out?

Damkerng T.

1986!

Anonymous

Ah, so I was four

Damkerng T.

08:10

I'm sure I didn't watch it in theater.

Anonymous

I didn't either.

Damkerng T.

Must be in VHS.

Anonymous

I don't think my parents took me to see Top Gun when I was four.

Anonymous

Around that age (younger?) I saw the Care Bears movie.

Damkerng T.

LOL

Oh, back then, I think I had to "read" the movie.

Anonymous

08:12

I have a vague recollection of the Hot Shots movie coming out, and then Hot Shots Part Deux

Anonymous

I think those were parodies of Top Gun

Anonymous

But I don't really remember.

Anonymous

I never saw them.

Damkerng T.

I hadn't watched Hot Shots! until recently. Probably just last year, when it's rerun on the cable.

Anonymous

Oh, vague childhood memories.

Anonymous

08:13

I did see Airplane.

Anonymous

That's a movie a lot of people quote.

Damkerng T.

That one is funny!

Anonymous

Everyone knows the Shirley quote.

Anonymous

Probably even if they've never seen the movie.

Damkerng T.

Which line?

Anonymous

08:15

> Surely you can't be serious!

Anonymous

> I am serious. And don't call me Shirley!

Anonymous

►

Damkerng T.

Oh, I had no idea how much of the jokes I missed.

LOL

Anonymous

Many is probably better in that sentence

Damkerng T.

I was thinking about editing it, and then left it like that. Can it be passable?

Anonymous

08:18

@DamkerngT. Umm, it sounds iffy.

Damkerng T.

I don't think that there are many jokes that I missed, but perhaps I missed some part of each (and maybe every) joke.

Anonymous

I won't go so far as to give it a star, though

Anonymous

Maybe I should, but I won't :-)

Damkerng T.

Perhaps I can rephrase it as I had no idea how much and how many of the gags that I missed.

Anonymous

Hey, I got a spam in Thai! How cosmopolitan.

Anonymous

08:23

It appears to be nonsense, though.

Damkerng T.

Would you like a translation? :D

Anonymous

> เทคนิคถวิลเลขเร็วเหตุด้วยวัยเรียน

Damkerng T.

Haha!

That doesn't make sense!

Anonymous

That puts it in good company with the English spams I receive :-)

Damkerng T.

Probably, they wanted to say "fast calculation techniques for children (or students)".

Anonymous

08:27

For comparison, a typical English spam I've gotten:

Anonymous

> Exploring Sensible Methods Of battery load tester

Damkerng T.

Aha! I just realize that you can tell Thai letters!

Anonymous

I've actually seen Thai letters a bunch of times, both at my friend's (mostly in Thai comics and such) and at Thai restaurants, online talking to you, online talking to my other friend, . . . Hmm, when else?

Anonymous

I can't remember when else.

Damkerng T.

That makes sense. I think you've seen them often enough. :D

Anonymous

08:39

I don't know if I would be able to distinguish it from Lao, by the way

Damkerng T.

Laotian letters are more cursive.

Also, a Laotian letter can fill a square better than Thai's.

Maulik V

10:07

@DamkerngT. add that that that that...one as well. it's very fun. I'll answer it :)

Damkerng T.

I saw that. They are interesting. :-)

Maulik V

but thanks...for adding that question

that has become my favorite!

Damkerng T.

I'm glad to hear that. By the way, have you spent some of your Unicoins?

It could be fun. :D

Maulik V

what's that?

not aware of it

Damkerng T.

Go to ELL's main page, you should see that "You have 75 Unicoins." :-)

Maulik V

10:11

wait

oh yes

what's that but

now?

ah....wait...there's much to see there!

Damkerng T.

I was curious, so I bought "Guaranteed answer". :D

Maulik V

what's that?

what does it mean?

Damkerng T.

Haven't you noticed that there is one answer in my question that has infinity points? :D

Maulik V

wow...

Damkerng T.

Unicoins is only for today, I think. :D

Maulik V

10:15

oops..then i have to hurry

and which question of yours has infinity points?

all the users too stiff for your taste, you can change them

what does it mean?

all the users too stiff for your taste, you can change them

Damkerng T.

It's curious, right? I wonder what it is too. :D

Maulik V

How he goes into my pajamas I'll never know - is annoying

or else it's easy!

Damkerng T.

It's there to counter the meaning (in the first sentence) that people would expect.

Maulik V

10:31

so it's not to be answered?

I mean is the first clause to be parased?

parsed?

paraphrased?

Damkerng T.

The problem of #1 is in the first sentence. It's ambiguous. The second sentence makes it clear (and ridiculous at the same time).

GATA

11:25

Hi all :) Would someone please check this sentence for me? - "How do you advantage from this characteristics of colors in painting?" - Does this sound natural?

Maulik V

@GATA What advantage do you get from the characteristics of (these) colors in painting?

GATA

@MaulikV Hi :) Thank you.

Maulik V

Welcome!

Maulik V

12:27

I think the Unicoins is April Fool

Damkerng T.

Exactly! :-)

It's something similar to the Hats festival last year.

Anonymous

17:16

@DamkerngT. I think last year's April Fools' was the much-maligned "talk with an expert" pop-up

Anonymous

Hats seem to occur around December each year.

Anonymous

@GATA Advantage isn't generally used as a verb

Damkerng T.

@snailboat "Talk with an expert" sounds interesting!

But potentially annoying.

The answers from the Unicorn are all gone now.

Anonymous

It was kind of annoying.

Anonymous

It wasn't helpful, but it wasn't supposed to be helpful. It was supposed to be a joke on the userbase

Anonymous

17:26

The problem is that they didn't quite program it right. You could tell it to go away, but it just came back, and back, and back...

Anonymous

So it really interfered with the site.

Anonymous

But I think at least some people thought it was funny, despite the bug :-)

Anonymous

-15

Q: Do we want a 2014 April's fool joke?

This year's April's fool joke was fun. My first chat was like, "oh, cool, how can I get it to contradict itself?" After that, I clicked the "never" link and it was gone. Good opt-out option. I thought. But it wasn't gone! Meta was spammed with a lot questions on the expert. Including this one, ...

discussion meta april-fools

Damkerng T.

Oh, -15!

Anonymous

Yeah, since votes on meta express agreement, and people disagreed--they wanted a 2014 April Fools' joke

Anonymous

17:30

Also, although the bug affected a lot of people, they didn't fix it because they couldn't figure out what caused it

Anonymous

(Well, they figured out a reason and posted it, but not the right one)

Damkerng T.

I haven't tried many things Unicoins could buy yet.

But it seems like the effects of most (or all?) of them can't be seen by others.

Anonymous

Ahh, I see

Damkerng T.

I wonder if others could see the answer with infinity upvotes to my questions.

I bought colorful comments, so I almost couldn't read any comments today. :D

They (the comments) came in cyan.

Very difficult to read.

Aww, the comments aren't colorful anymore.

Good bye my Unicoins... sad

Anonymous

Sad!

Damkerng T.

17:41

Hmm... somehow I couldn't guess Hemingway's pattern--when he would use "as though X were" and when he would use "as though X had been".

As far as I can tell, he seemed to minimize the use of perfect tenses. But sometimes he used "had been" when "were" would be equally valid.

Anonymous

18:08

Well, my guess would be that he makes the choice between the two on purpose, not by chance, but that sort of subtle detail probably escapes me while reading

Anonymous

Word of the day: pantser

Damkerng T.

What does it mean?

Anonymous

It's the opposite of a planner.

Anonymous

2

Q: What does "ﬂy by the seat of one's pants" mean?

Reading a book, I came across an expression I really can't parse. For some developers, the invocation of the word plan is cause for alarm. Endless meetings with pointy-haired bosses creating reams of printed Microsoft Project plans that nobody understands or uses are a valid cause ...

phrases idioms

Anonymous

It's that sort of pants :-)

Damkerng T.

18:21

Oh, "fly by pants!" (or more correctly, "fly by the seat of one's pants").

Anonymous

I think you can potentially get rid of fly without breaking the idiom

Anonymous

You can do something by the seat of your pants, even if it's not "flying" :-)

Damkerng T.

How about "I code by the seat of my pants"?

Anonymous

That seems okay to me!

Anonymous

My snails probably snail by the seats of their collective pants

Damkerng T.

18:25

LOL

Anonymous

They don't seem like the planning type to me.

Anonymous

Speaking of which, I should go mist their cage.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Oh, they're all up in the corners sleeping! Usually they like to hide and sleep inside their little house

Anonymous

But snails like corners.

Anonymous

18:28

I bet they think no one can see them there.

Anonymous

Snails are pretty good at hiding :-)

Damkerng T.

I think you would love to see how my cat hides.

I have a small chair, about the size of a small box.

He was able to hide in this chair when he was very young.

Now he is much bigger than he was, and he still thinks that nobody can see him if he hides in the chair.

But his butt always shows. :D

So, when he hides himself in the chair, it looks like I have a chair with a cat tail.

Anonymous

21:38

Hee

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