English Language Learners

Damkerng T.

02:46

1

A: Question about use of the words 'than' and 'revise' in this context

Some words have been left out here. Claims for the week ended [ending] March 15 were revised to show that 1,000 more applications were received than were previously reported. You will often find words such as "that" and "were" left out in newspaper stories to save space. Words cost money ...

I found it a little strange to claim that "Some words have been left out here."

> Original: Claims for the week ended March 15 were revised to show 1,000 more applications received than previously reported.

> Suggested: Claims for the week ended [ending] March 15 were revised to show that 1,000 more applications were received than were previously reported.

I would say the original sentence is fine by itself.

[ 1,000 more applications received than previously reported ] is a noun phrase and it is what was shown.

Damkerng T.

06:10

Ah, hello @Jolenealaska!

I saw you on the main but didn't see you in here half an hour ago.

Jolenealaska

Hi @DamkerngT. I just stopped in to see if anything was happening. I am going to go to bed soon. I've got bit of a drive tomorrow, so I want to try to be well rested. I hate driving tired.

Damkerng T.

Got it. Have a safe trip tomorrow.

Jolenealaska

Thanks :) on that note I think I'm going to take one quick look at a few sites, and log off. Have a good one!

I may try to answer the "uncountable noun" question before I turn in. Anyway, goodnight!

Damkerng T.

Please! And good night!

GATA

07:04

Hi all :) Would someone please tell me which preposition I should use? -> "They are talking in/on the kitchen"

oops forget my last question I found the answer :)

Please read this one : "She's going to break her neck taking down curtains" I think this sentence lacks an adverb between neck and taking. For example "while".

Am I right?

Damkerng T.

07:38

The part "taking down curtains" is a present participial phrase used as an adverb.

You can move it to the front (called "fronting"), too: Taking down curtains, she's going to break her neck.

GATA

@DamkerngT. As always, Thank you so much :)

Damkerng T.

No problem. I haven't heard "stout" very often. But yes, it can be a type of beer.

GATA

thanks :)

Damkerng T.

I think I'm getting stout a bit.

:D

GATA

:D I think its because of addiction to internet. I have the same problem :)

Damkerng T.

07:49

I must cut down my carb consumption, I think. :)

(Don't take me away from the Internet. :-)

GATA

:D

You are a programmer, right? I think this is a common thing.

Damkerng T.

I used to be one. But I still work on computer most of the time.

It's now rare for me to code.

GATA

me too :)

I left programming 8 years ago. now I want to start over.

Damkerng T.

A-ha! Things have changed so much in the last 10 years.

GATA

not in big scale but just to develope a tiny android app and a website.

Damkerng T.

07:56

Many new tools exist to make programming easier.

GATA

yes specialy in web.

Damkerng T.

I'd like to try mobile apps too.

Even simple editors nowadays know PHP and JavaScript functions. :-)

GATA

Yes :)

I used to develop websites with c# but now I find php a lot easier and efficient to work with.

Damkerng T.

I've never coded in C# myself, though I had to fixed others' code sometimes.

I think it would be much easier in Visual Studio. (I didn't use it.)

GATA

Yes it is. But I don't have it any more.

First language that I learned was visual basic. the most useless language.

Damkerng T.

08:02

Hehe. Mine was Logo.

GATA

what :)

Damkerng T.

A programming language that does nothing much. Just move the "turtle" around. :-)

Logo (programming language)

Logo is an educational programming language, designed in 1967 by Daniel G. Bobrow, Wally Feurzeig, Seymour Papert and Cynthia Solomon. Today the language is remembered mainly for its use of "turtle graphics", in which commands for movement and drawing produced line graphics either on screen or with a small robot called a "turtle". The language was originally conceived to teach concepts of programming related to LISP and only later to enable what Papert called "body-syntonic reasoning" where students could understand (and predict and reason about) the turtle's motion by imagining what they...

GATA

I had never head that. thanks.

Damkerng T.

Then, BASIC. I don't know what you'd think of it, I'm sure you must say Visual Basic is better. :-)

GATA

:D

DamkerngT, Would you please check this sentence? "Spread the cream equally/evenly all over the cake"

does it sound natural to you?

Damkerng T.

08:14

I would say evenly.

GATA

Thank you. I am not sure about "spread" I think i need to use "coat".

"Coat the cake evenly with cream"

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure about culinary vocabulary either. :-)

Hmm... I should have probably said "bakery", I think.

GATA

me either :)

Damkerng T.

Lemme see if Google can help...

> ... then spread the whipped cream over this and arranged fresh berries on the ...

> ... and pour whipping cream evenly over all ...

> Pour the whipping cream over the whole thing and bake.

GATA

"Coat the cake with cream evenly" very close to my suggestion.

Damkerng T.

08:28

nods

> Spread the ice cream evenly over the cake.

GATA

I think spread over and coat are interchangeable.

Damkerng T.

I can imagine a very similar act on the cake.

GATA

me too

Damkerng T.

Observing Google results, I think "coat" seems to mean the goal ("Let's coat the cake!"), whereas "spread" seems to be the word choice used to describe the activity during the coating.

I think during a bakery show, "spread" is likely (during the coating).

Ahh... this probably is getting me even stouter. (Where is my cake? I want it now. :-)

GATA

:D I think I must choose my question more carefully from now on.

They have side-effects. :)

Damkerng T.

08:37

Probably not food. :-)

But it's not your fault. It's mine. :-)

GATA

:D thanks

I was completely sure that "I watched a movie" is more common than "I saw a movie" but surprisingly It's not true.

books.google.com/ngrams/…

Damkerng T.

Interesting!

I think sometimes some people tried to assert a non-rule like: you can't say "I've seen a movie."

Nico's question is very interesting.

> Germany adopted a much weaker currency than would otherwise have been the case.

Instinctively, some native speakers seem to insert (It) before would.

Strangely enough, I don't feel that way.

I think "would otherwise have been the case" is "it".

GATA

09:00

Even I cant understand the whole sentence :) Does it mean : Germany adopted a much weaker currency than what was expected.

Damkerng T.

I understand it like this...

If Germany decided not to adopt a much weaker currency...

That would be something called "have been the case".

So "would otherwise have been the case" is an unreal currency that is (would be) stronger than the one Germany adopted.

Is that even more confusing? :-)

GATA

yes :D

Damkerng T.

Let's say that some time in the past, Germany had many choices of currencies to adopt: A, B, C, ..., Z.

Z is the weakest one.

Germany adopted Z.

GATA

Now what is the Z in real world.

Damkerng T.

If Germany chose to adopted A, B, C, ..., or Y, it would be stronger than Z.

GATA

09:06

euro?

Damkerng T.

I think it's the euro. (It appears to be in lowercase.)

The other currency seems to be the deutschmark.

GATA

Thanks now its more clear, the way "than' has been used was totally strange to me.

Damkerng T.

15 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

I think "would otherwise have been the case" is "it".

I think I guessed right all along. :-)

> Germany adopted a much weaker currency than would otherwise have been the case.

> Germany adopted the euro, which is a much weaker currency than the deutschmark.

GATA

wow now it make more sense to me.

So the lack of strong economical partners in Europe has made Germany weaker.

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure what really happened. I think it's more than that.

But adopting the euro helps Germany's exports, I think.

GATA

09:13

indeed

Damkerng T.

Wow! Norway's GDP/hr was at $81.

GATA

Norway's lesser population with rich and powerful Oil resources and industries have made it possible.

Damkerng T.

nods -- Oil can't be overlooked.

(Sometimes I typed something exactly opposite to what I thought. :-)

GATA

:D

Damkerng T.

In my head, I've already said "not", but perhaps my fingers couldn't keep up, so... Hehe.

GATA

09:32

I think sometimes it also happens to me :)

Damkerng T.

10:01

Hi @MaulikV.

Ice Girl

@DamkerngT. Hi

Damkerng T.

Oh, Maulik was gone. @IceGirl Hi.

Ice Girl

How are you?

Damkerng T.

I'm okay. Thanks. :-)

Ice Girl

:)

What's up?

Damkerng T.

10:14

Same old, same old.

Ice Girl

Oh, what does it mean?

I don't know

Damkerng T.

It means "(There is) nothing new". :-)

Ice Girl

OK

Thanks

Damkerng T.

np

Ice Girl

Did you read The Lady in Black story?

Damkerng T.

10:18

I didn't.

Ice Girl

:(

Can you read it now?

Please

It's short

Damkerng T.

I'm quite busy.

Ice Girl

np

Damkerng T.

I'm sorry.

Ice Girl

np

Damkerng T.

10:20

:D

(Glad that IceGirl understands)

Ice Girl

:)

If I have a question can I ask?

Damkerng T.

Go ahead.

Ice Girl

Really thanks

She remembered the wave of anger that had come over her when she had reached out her hand and silenced the clock that night 3 months before.

What does wave of anger mean?

reached out?

Damkerng T.

Imaging anger comes as a wave.

Ice Girl

!!!!!

Damkerng T.

10:26

It's a bit poetic, but it's quite common.

You know the word angry, right?

Ice Girl

right

Damkerng T.

Anger is the noun for angry.

See, in the quoted sentence, the "wave of anger" had "come over her".

A-ha! Macmillan defines it nicely. macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/wave

sense 3

Ice Girl

OK

GATA

Damkerng T.

Feelings can come in wave.

reach out is a phrasal verb. It's hard to explain.

Do you know the word "reach"?

Ice Girl

10:31

yes

Damkerng T.

As a noun?

Try this: macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/reach-out

You can reach out your hand to touch things within your reach.

Ice Girl

A-ha thanks

I got it

Silenced the clock that night 3 months before.

What does it mean?

Damkerng T.

The clock made a sound one night. This night was 3 months before. She silenced it.

Ice Girl

It had been silent ever since and it should remain silent, too. Of what possible use were the hours it would tick away now? As if anything mattered, with little Kathleen lying out there white and still under the black earth!

From with to black earth

What does it mean?

Damkerng T.

10:47

It sounds like Kathleen had been buried. (She passed away.)

Ice Girl

OK

"Pe-eek!" It was a cry of joyful discovery, but it was followed almost immediately by silence. The unsmiling woman did not invite him to come near. The boy was unsteady at his first step. He paused, then spoke carefully, "I's--here."

From pe-eek to silence.

What does it mean?

Damkerng T.

The boy cried out "Pe-eek!" as a joyful discovery of his.

(Perhaps his discovery was the unsmiling woman.)

"it was followed almost immediately by silence" ~ the woman ignored him.

Ice Girl

It was maybe the worst thing he could have said. To the Lady in Black it was a yet more painful reminder of that other one who was not there. She gave a sharp cry and covered her face with her hands.

Damkerng T.

Gotta go. @IceGirl good luck with the reading!

Ice Girl

@DamkerngT. OK. See you soon. Bye.

@DamkerngT. Thanks

GATA

12:16

One question : Can I replace that Past pefect continuous with Past Continuous in the following text? "He washed, and stuffed everything he had been wearing (was wearing) into the hamper, and scrubbed up the bathroom, like a murderer."

Damkerng T.

13:01

The meaning would change a bit, I think.

"Everything he had been wearing" sounds like he had already changed his clothes. It also sounds like he stuffed what he had been wearing (or was wearing earlier), which is not what he was wearing at that time.

Changing it to "everything he was wearing" sounds like he was taking everything off, then got naked, and cleaned up the mess.

GATA

Your explanation is very clear, you made it very easy to understand:) thank you very much.

Damkerng T.

No problem. :-)

GATA

I didn't overuse "very" :D I had been struggling with this for a couple of hours until you came. I think I didn't say it enough. :)

Damkerng T.

13:17

I see. English tenses can be very tricky.

GATA

indeed

Damkerng T.

In any case, the context is also important. It can convince us to reinterpret everything. Even some extra words can make a difference too, like "earlier" in "was wearing earlier". But I think you're already aware of that.

Hmm... I think I saw someone mentioned "garden" something earlier today. It's about reinterpreting what we've just read.

Ah, yes, it's en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_path_sentence.

> Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

When we reached "banana", we would have to go back and reinterpret "flies".

GATA

13:33

@DamkerngT. Sorry for delay I was reading your suggested page. This one was more clear. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

It was interesting :)

They have been used as noun.

Damkerng T.

Yes, the fruit flies. :-)

They sure like bananas.

Ambiguities in language can be fun, sometimes. :-)

GATA

I practically agree :D

about being fun.

sometimes it frustrates me:)

Damkerng T.

I think we should aim at clarity in technical writing. But, without ambiguities, I guess we will miss great poems, proses, lyrics, and even good movies scripts. :-)

Ah, my messages got starred. Yay!

(Though I wish I could edit it a little: Changing it to "everything he was wearing" sounds like he was taking everything off; then being naked, he cleaned up the mess.)

Nico

14:00

0

Q: Question about meaning of the lyrics

Once I listened a song and there were some strange words, that I can't understand I searched the lyrics and have found various results: 1.My nervous system is shot all right and 2.My nervous system is shut all right. Which one is right? Is it an idiom? How to understand it? What does that m...

meaning

I'm listening to the song and I can't tell whether it is "shot" or "shut".

Damkerng T.

Me neither, the first time.

Because the singer is a Canadian, I think. And, she's singing, not speaking.

Luckily, there are words like "but" and "of" in the song, so it's clear that it's "shot".

Nico

I thought so the first time, but the second time I didn't feel so sure

Damkerng T.

Being a non-native speaker, I usually keep myself really flexible for the vowels.

Nico

I'll wait for someone to explain the meaning

Damkerng T.

Chenmunka already answered it, I think.

Nico

14:04

I really struggle with vowels. I can tell the difference when I hear them, but I can't pronounce all of them

Damkerng T.

The variation of the vowels of English is very wide.

It's very dialect-dependent, imo.

Nico

but sometimes it's important: can vs can't

Damkerng T.

Ah, "can't" in AmE can be really, really tricky. :-)

It's much easier in BrE.

Nico

I'm in the UK and still find it difficult. I guess because being a foreigner people don't have a renference for my accent and when I say "can" it could be interpreted as "can't"

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think the vowels for "can" and "can't" in BrE are different.

Typically, I mean. That's what I've heard in movies and on the radio and TV.

Also "can" is usually non-stressed, and "can't" is usually stressed (and sounds like "cahnt").

GATA

14:14

I think you can usually guess it correctly .

Damkerng T.

I usually guessed it earlier. So I got it right about 60%, the rest, I would guess from the context.

I'm rather sure I can hear the difference correctly about 80-90% nowadays.

GATA

Yes The negative expression is different from positive. it helps you a lot.

Damkerng T.

nods I think you're right.

GATA

:)

Damkerng T.

Oh, yesterday, I heard this word on the radio: dagnabit

Perhaps, two bs: dagnabbit

GATA

14:27

more polite way of saying "god damn it"?

Damkerng T.

According to what I found on the web, I believe so.

GATA

I saw this in despicable2 "are you out of your gourd" a more polite way to say it to a kid.

Damkerng T.

I haven't seen that one yet. :-)

It sounds like fun. :-)

GATA

yesss :D

Damkerng T.

Hahaha!

►

What's with these banana and potato-o-oh? :-)

GATA

14:36

YouTube is blocked here.

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Ah, found this! despicableme.wikia.com/wiki/Banana_%28song%29

This is what they sing...

No idea about what language they were singing in. (Sounds like Mauri to me; except for the words "banana" and "potato". :-)

GATA

Thanks for sharing :) even Lyric and images are funny :D

Minions are very cool characters.

Damkerng T.

It's hard to forget them, even after seeing them just once. :-)

GATA

indeed :)

Anonymous

16:08

@DamkerngT. I suppose it depends on what "left out" means.

Anonymous

It doesn't necessarily mean something like "This sentence is wrong unless these words are added."

Anonymous

A lot of the time, people talk about ellipsis--things being "left out"--simply because it makes theory (our descriptions of language) simpler

Anonymous

Even though the words aren't actually there

Anonymous

I personally try to minimize the amount of ellipsis I suggest, but sometimes I think it makes things simpler, so I go with it.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I agree that the original sentence is fine by itself.

Anonymous

16:10

But I wouldn't necessarily argue with people who suggested that there's some ellipsis going on behind the scenes.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I wouldn't personally suggest that that and were are missing.

Damkerng T.

nods -- Hello!

Anonymous

Hello!

Damkerng T.

How are you? And how are your snails?

Anonymous

On the other hand, I'm not entirely happy with "ended" . . .

Anonymous

16:16

My snails are hiding in their shells.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat nods -- I think ending is better.

Anonymous

But people use ended regularly in that sort of writing.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat How big is Dotty now?

Anonymous

So I'm not prepared to call it wrong.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Still smaller than all the other snails :-)

Anonymous

16:17

I'm not sure she'll ever be a full-size snail.

Anonymous

She started out so much tinier than the other babies, and fifteen days later!

Damkerng T.

Being smaller than others is another way to get lots of love. :-)

Anonymous

Hehe!

Anonymous

That's why I kept her when I set the other babies free :-)

Anonymous

Well, to be honest, I wasn't sure she'd survive outside.

Anonymous

16:18

She doesn't want to come out of her shell right now. She might not be 100% happy with the temperature in the snail room.

Anonymous

She's still very active when she does come out of her shell, though.

Damkerng T.

Hehe. Snails have feelings too. :-)

Anonymous

I liked that "what's the subject in this subordinate clause" question the other day

Damkerng T.

Nico's, I think?

Anonymous

Yes!

Damkerng T.

16:21

Yes. I think it's Nico's. I like that question too. It's a great question.

Anonymous

Oh good, it got some answers.

Damkerng T.

Not too difficult to understand, but difficult to be sure on the parsing.

Anonymous

But I can't upvote because I spent all my votes this morning.

Anonymous

Well, in this case, it's helpful to know how it fits together so you can tell which sentences are permissible.

Damkerng T.

Nico also did nice research.

Hmm... strange... Nico got one downvote.

Anonymous

16:24

Not I, said the snail.

Anonymous

I upvoted the question and didn't vote on his self-answer.

Damkerng T.

I'm sure it wasn't you, said Hagu.

ngaew -- jumping of the desk...

Anonymous

16:35

Oh, Dot came out of her shell! I guess she's hiding in the acorn house now, since I don't see her anywhere.

Anonymous

But she's not sleeping on the lid of her cage anymore :-)

Damkerng T.

o <---- (Dot)

GATA

16:49

One question : Is "plate" still common to refer to "denture"? "She had no upper teeth. She probably took her plate out, for comfort, at home."

The quoted text above is from a short story called "casting away".

I think its a little old fashioned to say "plate".

what do you prefer ? plate, denture or perhaps something else.?

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