English Language Learners

Damkerng T.

00:58

What @Jim said. That "well-known phrase" may be similar – sure, the words are similar words – but it's a song lyric, not a proverb, and people still debate about whether the song is about free love and adultery, or getting over recently-ended relationships. Neither interpretation seems to fit the O.P.'s question. Shame this answer was accepted so quickly. — J.R. 55 mins ago

It seems like both Jim and J.R. agree that the phrase "Love the one you're with" is more like, "Go ahead. Cheat. It's only while you're away from the one you really love, so it's okay." -- I just read the lyrics metrolyrics.com/…, and I don't think that it's about adultery, but I can see that it can be interpreted both ways.

Damkerng T.

01:19

Oh, I found this book "Love the One You're With" by Emily Griffin on Amazon: dearauthor.com/book-reviews/…

If I read a review correctly, I think the moral of the novel is the opposite to adultery--that is, to refrain from it. In the story, Ellen chose to be with her husband, Andy, not the ex-boyfriend, Leo.

Damkerng T.

01:34

@IceGirl You can help me by explaining this phrase: خواهی که جهان در کف اقبال تو باشد خواهان کسی باش که خواهان تو باشد. What exactly does it mean?

Does it mean "Love the one who loves you"?

Or "Loving someone and having them love you back is the most precious thing in the world."?

Ice Girl

05:06

@DamkerngT. Hi

@DamkerngT. The first one is better.

Ice Girl

05:49

@snailplane Hi

Damkerng T.

12:38

@IceGirl Thank you very much! Now I can be sure that my guess wasn't far off.

Damkerng T.

16:19

A Farewell to Arms by Ernest Hemingway. Chapter 37.

(p.288)

> I rowed in the dark keeping the wind in my face.
The rain had stopped and only came occasionally in gusts.
It was very dark, and the wind was cold.
I could see Catherine in the stern but I could not see the water where the blades of the oars dipped.
The oars were long and there were no leathers to keep them from slipping out.

> I pulled, raised, leaned forward, found the water, dipped and pulled, rowing as easily as I could.
I did not feather the oars because the wind was with us.
I knew my hands would blister and I wanted to delay it as long as I could.
The boat was light and rowed easily.
I pulled it along in the dark water.
I could not see, and hoped we would soon come opposite Pallanza.

Damkerng T.

> We never saw Pallanza.
The wind was blowing up the lake and we passed the point that hides Pallanza in the dark and never saw the lights.
When we finally saw some lights much further up the lake and close to the shore it was Intra.
But for a long time we did not see any lights, nor did we see the shore but rowed steadily in the dark riding with the waves.

> Sometimes I missed the water with the oars in the dark as a wave lifted the boat.
It was quite rough; but I kept on rowing, until suddenly we were close ashore against a point of rock that rose beside us; the waves striking against it, rushing high up, then falling back.
I pulled hard on the right oar and backed water with the other and we went out into the lake again; the point was out of sight and we were going on up the lake.

Damkerng T.

> "We're across the lake," I said to Catherine.

(p.289)

Damkerng T.

17:20

> "Weren't we going to see Pallanza?"
"We've missed it."
"How are you, darling?"
"I'm fine."
"I could take the oars awhile."
"No, I'm fine."

> "Poor Ferguson," Catherine said. "In the morning she'll come to the hotel and find we're gone."
"I'm not worrying so much about that," I said, "as about getting into the Swiss part of the lake before it's daylight and the custom guards see us."
"Is it a long way?"
"It's thirty some kilometres from here."

Damkerng T.

> I rowed all night.
Finally my hands were so sore I could hardly close them over the oars.
We were nearly smashed up on the shore several times.
I kept fairly close to the shore because I was afraid of getting lost on the lake and losing time.

> Sometimes we were so close we could see a row of trees and the road along the shore with the mountains behind.
The rain stopped and the wind drove the clouds so that the moon shone through and looking back I could see the long dark point of Castagnola and the lake with white-caps and beyond, the moon on the high snow mountains.

> Then the clouds came over the moon again and the mountains and the lake were gone, but it was much lighter than it had been before and we could see the shore.
I could see it too clearly and pulled out where they would not see the boat if there were custom guards along the Pallanza road.

> When the moon came out again we could see white villas on the shore on the slopes of the mountain and the white road where it showed through the trees.
All the time I was rowing.

Damkerng T.

Hello @snailplane

Wait a sec, I think I need to restart Firefox...

Anonymous

Hello!

Anonymous

Some copular constructions (A is B) can be inverted (B is A) so that the subject appears second.

Damkerng T.

Is our tradition(s) case one of them?

I didn't read this Q&A yet, but I think the OP should have posted this as a comment rather than posting it as an answer and then accepted it.

0

A: Should I use 'nor' or 'neither' in this sentence?

I think the sentence structure in my sentence number 1 is correct.However as Wenkikidd has pointed out the sentence does not make any sense.But if it were making sense,then 'nor' can be used without neither.This is what I have understood.

Anonymous

17:57

1a. Our tradition is hard work and discipline. 1b. Hard work and discipline is our tradition.

Anonymous

2a. Our traditions are hard work and discipline. 2b. Hard work and discipline are our traditions.

Anonymous

3a. *Our traditions is hard work and discipline. 3b. *Hard work and discipline is our traditions.

Anonymous

4a. *Our tradition are hard work and discipline. 4b. Hard work and discipline are our tradition.

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to invert these sentences. (For example, though I might say things like Adam and Britney are my friends, it's only in few specific occasions that I would say My friends are Adam and Britney for it would mean a different thing.)

Anonymous

In 1a-4a, the verb agrees with the subject in basic position, on the left. our tradition is and our traditions are are possible, but not *our traditions is or *our tradition are. In sentences 1b-2b, the verb agrees with the subject in inverted position: is our tradition and are our traditions are possible. In 3b-4b, the sentences cannot be inverted because the verb doesn't agree with the element on the right, so hard work and discipline must be the subject.

Anonymous

18:02

Therefore in 3b-4b, hard work and discipline is is not possible, but hard work and discipline are is.

Anonymous

That's how I see it.

Damkerng T.

What is the subject of the sentence Hard work is our tradition?

Anonymous

Sometimes it's ambiguous whether a specifying construction has been inverted.

Anonymous

That's one reason it's been the topic of so much debate in modern research

Damkerng T.

nods

I mean, I think I know which choices are safe enough. But suppose that I don't want just to be safe...

Anonymous

18:05

@DamkerngT. In that sentence, arguably the subject-complement distinction breaks down.

Anonymous

Hmm...

Anonymous

I still feel like our tradition is the subject, now that I look at it.

Damkerng T.

Couldn't 3b be reduced from a star (*) to a question mark (?)?

Anonymous

No. If anything, I'd add more stars. :-)

Damkerng T.

LOL

Anonymous

18:08

The verb's got to agree with something!

Damkerng T.

Then how can we explain those examples on the web in the pattern: "... is our traditions"?

Anonymous

I don't know what examples you mean, but "... is our traditions" is not a complete sentence so I can't comment on it.

Damkerng T.

For example, All our history is our traditions today.

Or something simpler, Success is our traditions.

Anonymous

Well, first of all, I don't like either of those. But you can at least say is agrees with the thingy on the left.

Anonymous

So they're different from 3b.

Damkerng T.

18:11

nods

Anonymous

Find one with a plural left hand thingy.

Damkerng T.

Their traditons and history is our traditions and history, ...

Anonymous

Ungrammatical.

Damkerng T.

That's what I thought, but it's from rt.com.

Anonymous

Is that Reuters?

Damkerng T.

18:14

Yup.

Anonymous

Because I don't think being in Reuters qualifies a sentence as grammatical :-)

Anonymous

In general, people writing news are under a lot of time pressure. They do their best in the time they have, but it's not uncommon to find mistakes here or there.

Damkerng T.

I would say that this construction (not just about tradition) is rare.

Anonymous

Inverted specifying constructions with be?

Damkerng T.

I'm still not sure if it's an inverted construction.

But I was trying to find something that looks like one.

Turning to Google Ngram instead...

Both "is * are our traditions" and "and * are our traditions" returned nothing.

And so "is * are our tradition" and "and * are our tradition".

Anonymous

18:19

What are "is * are our traditions" and "is * are our tradition"?

Damkerng T.

What I entered in Google Ngram.

Anonymous

What sort of grammatical sentence could you make with those?

Anonymous

Yes, but what is the idea behind them?

Damkerng T.

Enumeration.

There are just 4 combinations, not so many.

Anonymous

But you have is and are on either side of the star. It looks like you made a mistake.

Damkerng T.

18:20

Oh!

Anonymous

Also, I think * only matches one word in Google's Ngram Viewer.

Damkerng T.

Try again...

Anonymous

That's okay, of course.

Anonymous

As long as you're aware.

Damkerng T.

The only returned result was the usage of "and it is our tradition".

Nothing related to our constructions.

Anonymous

18:22

The monospaced thing I made above? I can't put it in an answer. It would scroll horizontally.

Anonymous

Which is a shame.

Damkerng T.

An answer? I think the formatting there is more flexible.

(Sometimes I wish I could write a simple table in my answers. :-)

Anonymous

Yeah, tables would be nice, but they mistakenly decided not to include them.

Anonymous

The idea being, you can create ad-hoc tables by using pre-formatted text.

Damkerng T.

Is it possible that no native ever used this "X and Y [is|are] our tradition(s)" before?

Anonymous

18:26

Unfortunately, that doesn't work in Japanese, because the Japanese characters render from a different font which doesn't line up with spaces

Damkerng T.

@snailplane You mean we can use <table>...</table>?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. No. You can use pre-formatted text.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I doubt that.

Damkerng T.

Oh, oh, BBC Radio 4 is re-broadcasting their dramatized version of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy!

> And in many of the more relaxed civilization on the outer eastern rim of the Galaxy, the Hitchhiker's Guide has already supplanted the great Encyclopedia Galactica, the standard repository of all knowledge and wisdom.

Nice!

Oh, I couldn't fix the typo now. It was "... the Galaxy, the Hitchhiker's Guide has ...".

Anonymous

18:44

Hmm...

Anonymous

Maybe I need to come up with another analysis.

Anonymous

How would you analyze my 8 examples?

Anonymous

Like Maulik does?

Damkerng T.

Go looking...

Anonymous

I think I'll leave it to someone else to write an answer.

Anonymous

18:48

The more I look at it, the more complicated the facts seem to get :-)

Damkerng T.

I agree with him only the part that I can treat "Hard work and discipline" as either one or two things.

Though I disagreed with his first analysis.

And still don't entirely agree with his current version.

At the very least, I think Hard work and discipline are our tradition is safe enough.

Anonymous

That sounds okay to me.

Anonymous

My initial analysis was different.

Anonymous

How's this? [ Hard work and discipline ] can be treated as one thing, but for that to work, the thing on the other side of the copula has to be singular, too.

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I see your point.

I once posted a question on ELU... I think it was All I hear is fear and lies.

3

Q: When all you hear is fear and lies

The first time I heard it (When You Believe by Leon Jackson), my grammar instinct screamed "When all you hear are fear and lies." But then again, I feel that the phrase "all you hear are" sounds a little odd, "all you hear is" sounds perfectly fine to me. But maybe I am wrong. Would you use is o...

Back then, I thought the sentence was odd, because if I inverted it, it would be "Fear and lies are all I hear", so it probably needed "are".

Anonymous

18:56

People definitely say both.

Damkerng T.

Looking at the date, I think it was less than a few months before I "opened" my ears. ;-)

Anonymous

> All we found were candy wrappers and soda cans.
> All we found was candy wrappers and soda cans.

Damkerng T.

Hah! It's interesting again! :D

Oh I see. It's about what they found.

Hmm...

I think I probably need to open grammar books; but later.

Anonymous

Well, copular sentences are complicated. Different grammar books say different things about them.

Damkerng T.

Perhaps, that's exactly the problem!

Ah, thank you for the +5. :D

Anonymous

19:07

I didn't vote up any of the answers because none of them said that both were possible

Damkerng T.

And because none of them said that both were possible, I always thought that it should always be "all I hear".

I was about to say "all we found were ... is wrong", until I visualized the scene.

Anonymous

> To make it, all you need are leaves and a place to let them rot for 4 to 12 months.

Anonymous

> All you need are the candles.

Anonymous

> All you need are two things: some space and some willpower.

Anonymous

> All you need are cloth napkins, basic cutlery, and a couple of wineglasses.

Anonymous

19:12

> All you need are inexpensive linens and a simple headboard kit.

Anonymous

> All you need are a couple sheets of paper, scissors and tape.

Anonymous

> All you need are the right tools.

Anonymous

> All you need are your own two hands.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane To be fair, Cool Elf mentioned "All I have are diamonds" in his comment.

Anonymous

> All you need are instructions and a few simple tools.

Anonymous

19:13

Those are some examples from COCA.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane How many hits?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I think it was 42

Damkerng T.

Hah! Unbelievable!

Anonymous

23 for all I see are

Anonymous

> Around camp all I see are the shell-shocked, the walking wounded.

Anonymous

19:14

> All I see are holes in a skull.

Anonymous

> We should see houses, but all I see are trees.

Damkerng T.

Did you see that I mentioned The Hitchhiker's Guide above?

Anonymous

> All I see are clothes.

Anonymous

Ahh, I see now

Anonymous

I saw it before, but I didn't pay attention

Damkerng T.

19:15

All I need is the answer of everything!

Anonymous

All I did was edit it for you :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Answer takes to, not of

Damkerng T.

Oh, thank you!

Not even in this context?

Anonymous

Um, someone might say it.

Damkerng T.

(What was the original wording in the book?)

Anonymous

19:16

It sounds funny to me, personally. I expect "All I need is the answer to everything!"

Anonymous

> the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything

Damkerng T.

Let me try again...

All I need is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything!

Anonymous

Hehe!

Damkerng T.

Yay! (thank you, btw)

Oh, I don't know how much we've progressed on Higgs boson.

Anonymous

I don't know. I'm still busy trying to figure out how simple sentences fit together in my native language. :-)

Damkerng T.

19:20

It was called the God Particle, wasn't it?

Anonymous

By some guy.

Anonymous

Doesn't mean we have to use the term :-)

Damkerng T.

Wondering who is that some nice guy... :D

Anonymous

theguardian.com/science/blog/2009/may/29/…

Damkerng T.

Oh, I like Photoshop. I can make anyone look great!

(He looks a little God like in that photo.)

Anonymous

19:22

@DamkerngT. As the article says, Leon Lederman

Anonymous

If you prefer not to refer to him as "some guy", you are free to call him something else--perhaps his name :-)

Damkerng T.

Like, Leon Lederman. Hehe.

In a sense, the web becomes closer and closer to the Encyclopedia Galatica every day.

Along with Wikipedia.

(Being the standard repository of knowledge and wisdom.)

Anonymous

Well, Wikipedia will probably never contain a reliable and comprehensive set of information. I think its design will prevent that from ever occurring

Anonymous

It is fairly useful, though

Damkerng T.

I think "the standard repository" doesn't have to be reliable. :-)

Anonymous

19:28

Hah

Damkerng T.

At least it doesn't have to have that Don't Panic! printed in large friendly letters on the cover as The Hitchhiker's Guide does. :D

Anonymous

hard work and discipline

2 hours ago, 16 seconds total – 4 messages, 1 user, 0 stars

Bookmarked 7 secs ago by snailplane

Anonymous

So if [ hard work and discipline ] can be singular or plural,

Damkerng T.

This one-box looks a bit unusual!

Yes? (sorry to interrupt)

Anonymous

2b and 4b are fine because [ hard work and discipline ] agrees with the verb.

Anonymous

19:33

In 1b and 3b, it's being contrued as singular. That's possible in 1b because it's related to a singular NP [ our tradition ]

Anonymous

But it's not possible in 3b because it's related to the plural NP [ our traditions ]

Anonymous

Ahh, I think this is the right approach...

Damkerng T.

My problem (with the 3b case from the start) is that is something like, "Fishing is our traditions here" grammatical?

Or it always must be "Fishing is our tradition here".

Anonymous

Well, it needs to be the latter.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

19:37

But think for a moment what it would mean for fishing to be multiple traditions

Anonymous

By the way, this whole discussion has been ignoring the difference in meaning if you make tradition plural.

Damkerng T.

I guess. It seems so.

Anonymous

But semantics do matter in agreement.

Damkerng T.

I think "our" is also important.

Does this we act as a single whole unit, or a sum of standalone units?

(For a university, I think we could think of each department working separately.)

Being non-native, I'm okay with both alternatives. What I don't know is how a typical native speaker would think.

Anonymous

How is our important?

Damkerng T.

19:42

If this our (or we) referred to a single whole unit, then I think it should be "our tradition".

On the other hand, if it referred to a sum of standalone units, then "our traditions" would be more appropriate.

Anonymous

But it doesn't relate to the copula.

Damkerng T.

We are talking about "tradition" here, I think?

Cerberus

@snailplane All of this sounds the the correct reasoning to me!

Damkerng T.

@Cerberus Even the 3b case too?

Cerberus

> 1a. Our tradition is hard work and discipline. 1b. Hard work and discipline is our tradition.
2a. Our traditions are hard work and discipline. 2b. Hard work and discipline are our traditions.
3a. *Our traditions is hard work and discipline. 3b. *Hard work and discipline is our traditions.
4a. *Our tradition are hard work and discipline. 4b. Hard work and discipline are our tradition.

Damkerng T.

19:46

Oh, I see. You meant snailplaine's reasoning.

Cerberus

Yes.

I agree with both the asterisks and the reasoning.

If you have x be y, that means x is taken to be the subject, so be has to agree with x.

If x can only be plural, it has to be are. If only singular, is.

If x can be construed as either singular or plural, but y is clearly singular, then we would normally interpret x as singular too and write is. If x is either, but y plural, it's are.

If x can be construed as either singular or plural, and y can be either as well, all bets are off.

Damkerng T.

Doesn't that make 4b unsafe?

Cerberus

Yes...I would probably write is there; but you can decide to say "hard work and discipline is really intended to be two separate things in context, it can't be singular in this particular context".

Damkerng T.

(Which, btw, the version that the OP's institute happens to use.)

Anonymous

I think people usually go for singular agreement in that case, but plural agreement isn't so uncommon as to be incorrect

Cerberus

19:54

Yeah.

If only because people often start writing a sentence before they have decided how to end it.

Hard work and discipline are...hmm what shall I make them...oh, our tradition.

Still, I would probably end with our traditions in that case, if I already have are.

Damkerng T.

If only that's spontaneous... :D

Cerberus

Oh, you know...

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I don't know about that.

Anonymous

I mean, it sounds fine to me, not like a mistake I need to find an explanation for.

Damkerng T.

I don't think it was spontaneous, it's the motto there, so it must be written.

Cerberus

19:57

I don't like it.

In a paper I had to correct, I would probably leave it alone? But not in some official notice or motto.

Damkerng T.

My first reaction was that I know 1b and 2b were safe (I happened to like 1b), 4b was passable, and 3b though sounded risky might also be passable.

As it turned out, 3b seems to be not passable. :D

Cerberus

I think 3b is far worse than 4b.

Yeah.

Anonymous

> Fish and chips is delicious.
> Fish and chips are delicious.

Anonymous

(Example stolen from Heidi Lorimor's thesis on agreement with conjoined subjects)

Damkerng T.

I think "fish and chips" is perceived as one entity nowadays.

(Is it that popular dish in England?)

Anonymous

20:03

GloWbE results:
fish and chips are　 26
fish and chips is　　 33

Damkerng T.

Oh! The are version is not far behind!

Anonymous

> Pickles and ice cream is delicious.
> Pickles and ice cream are delicious.

Anonymous

In the first, you're clearly discussing the combination of the two.

Damkerng T.

(Having no idea what the combination of pickles and ice cream would taste like. :-)

Anonymous

> I think drinking and driving is a really bad thing.

Anonymous

20:07

> The manufacture and distribution of cash is by far the Federal Government's biggest profit-making operation.

Anonymous

> Hard work and discipline is our tradition.

Damkerng T.

The drinking and driving is is not a big surprise, but the manufacture and distribution!

Anonymous

It's construed as a single thing.

Anonymous

If you rewrote it with are and plural operations, you'd be considering the two separately

Damkerng T.

I think you should answer the OP, give them your examples and reasoning.

Anonymous

20:15

I've been working on it :-)

Damkerng T.

(This OP's avatar is actually a them. :-)

Anonymous

If you'll recall, I started out with some reasoning that turned out to be false

Anonymous

So what I've been doing is checking resources (many of which I've regrettably read and forgotten!) and testing my ideas

Anonymous

So, I'm still working on it. I'm going to borrow examples from this thesis, I think :-)

Damkerng T.

That sounds great.

Why would we say that vis-a-vis 'It is our tradition'? When we say "our" tradition, it means everything that is a part of our tradition. Why do we need to use that as plural? — Neil D'Silva 3 hours ago

Perhaps you might have to clarify that for the OP too when you explained 2b.

Anonymous

20:20

It isn't a conjoined subject.

Damkerng T.

I know.

What I meant was that the OP seems to think of this "Hard work and discipline" as one thing and one thing only.

Anonymous

> They are our tradition.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Sorry, I don't really see what you want me to explain.

Damkerng T.

I think the OP think 4b is wrong.

And I think the OP think 2b is less preferred.

Anonymous

Well, the meaning of 2b is different.

Anonymous

20:25

But it's not ungrammatical

Anonymous

I don't particularly like 2b as a motto

Damkerng T.

Me neither.

Damkerng T.

20:39

Aha... now it's clear to me.

It's better not to think of it as a copula usage, but think of it as an equative construction instead.

If I think of it as an equative, or something defining something, I would object 3b too.

Anonymous

An equative construction is a type of copular construction.

Damkerng T.

Yes.

So A and B are my friends is an equative.

Anonymous

(If your typology includes it as a type of copular construction, anyway. CGEL's doesn't, but Higgins' does)

Damkerng T.

But My friends are A and B would be strange as an equative.

Anonymous

Umm, if it's equative, you can swap it around.

Anonymous

20:44

That's one of the defining traits of an equative, I think.

Damkerng T.

So actually, A and B are my friends might not be an equative.

Anonymous

I would call it a specifying construction.

Damkerng T.

But X and Y are our traditions or [X and Y] is our tradition is an equative.

At least it being a motto suggests so.

Perhaps, X and Y are our tradition is not an equative.

According to Wikipedia, "Equatives (e.g. Susan is our president) can be contrasted with predicative constructions where one entity is identified as a member of a set (e.g. Susan is a president)."

Cerberus

@snailplane Yeah that is exactly the point!

Anonymous

21:08

The more I look at it, the less I like it.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Though not everyone uses the term equative for copular constructions

Anonymous

I don't really like Wikipedia's definition

Anonymous

Where do ascriptive constructions ("Kermit is green") fit into that Wikipedia editor's system?

Anonymous

("Ascriptive" because in "A is B", B is a property ascribed to A.)

Damkerng T.

I just read about "ascriptive" on About.com.

I think it's roughly equivalent to predicative constructions used in Wikipedia.

Anonymous

21:16

No, it's not.

Damkerng T.

No?

Anonymous

Green is not a member of the set Kermit. Kermit is not a member of the set green.

Anonymous

Or, if you put it that way, it's an odd way to put it.

Anonymous

The term equative comes from Higgins' taxonomy which had four types of copular construction.

Anonymous

Predicational, specificational, identificational, equative

Damkerng T.

21:17

Oh, but generally speaking, in "Kermit is green", the [is green] part is the predicate, isn't it?

Anonymous

Yes, it is.

Damkerng T.

Ah, I see. Perhaps the Wikipedia page isn't well-written.

Though it gave me a big clue about the equative constructions.

Anonymous

That is what Higgins would call "predicational", I believe. But it doesn't fit the definition on Wikipedia.

Damkerng T.

What do you think about this sentence: Loving your kids and supporting your kids is our jobs as a parent.

Anonymous

Ungrammatical.

Damkerng T.

21:24

nods

I think this is bad too: Producing and shaping young adults is all our jobs.

So is: Organising and showing people around is our main jobs for the day.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yes, that looks bad to me.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yes, that is particularly bad.

Damkerng T.

I guess I dug it deep enough for today. :D

Anonymous

What are you trying to do with the [ conjoined subject ] is [ plural NP ] examples?

Damkerng T.

To make sure I got it right.

hard work and discipline

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