English Language Learners

skullpatrol

22:00

Which is right?

Anonymous

What do you mean?

Damkerng T.

I'm sure I can say either when I go buy stuff there. ;-)

skullpatrol

It is a Swedish word therefore their pronunciation should be favored

Anonymous

Huh? That doesn't make any sense.

Anonymous

You pronounce stuff in English with English pronunciations and in Swedish with Swedish pronunciations, typically.

Anonymous

22:02

Unless you always refer to Paris in English as [paʁi], in which case you've got an affectation most people don't ;-)

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Oh, like Leonardo in Titanic.

> Rose: Jack, these are quite good! Really, they are.

> Jack: Well, they didn't think too much of 'em in Paree.

Anonymous

Hah.

Damkerng T.

> [...]

> Jack: Well, they didn't think too much of 'em in Paree.

Anonymous

You have now said that twice.

Damkerng T.

> He snaps his wrist, shaking his drawing hand in a flourish.

He said it twice.

skullpatrol

22:06

Countries pronounce their own names the way they should be pronounced, like Espaina then the English say NO we say it Spain. Well who cares it is not your country :P

Anonymous

Oh, I don't remember.

Damkerng T.

Me neither. I'm reading the script.

Anonymous

@skullpatrol Well, you're allowed to pronounce stuff however you want, and even to declare that a particular pronunciation is right (it's your opinion, you're entitled to it!), but you're unlikely to gain much traction

skullpatrol

Not the abbreviations for countries during the Olympics

The are not English abbreviations

Esp for Spain

Sui for Switzerland

Damkerng T.

I remember that Rose corrected Jack about Paris should be pronounced Paris, not Paree. But I couldn't find that line in the script. Perhaps this script is not identical to the one they used in the movie.

This subtitle is more like it.

skullpatrol

22:20

I just think it is respectful to pronounce a persons nationality as they do.

Damkerng T.

> Rose: They're, uh-- They're very good actually. Jack, this is exquisite work.

> Jack: They didn't think too much of them in old Paree.

> Rose: Paris! You do get around for a poor--Well, uh, uh, a person of limited means.

> Jack: Go on, a poor guy, you can say it.

> Rose: Well, well, well.

@skullpatrol Of course!

skullpatrol

:-)

Damkerng T.

I think it's always ESP for Spain in World Cup.

Anonymous

I don't think it shows any disrespect to pronounce a word normally, in a way that makes it most likely to be understood.

skullpatrol

You are entitled to your opinion :-)

Anonymous

22:24

(Otherwise, lots of companies are disrespecting themselves all the time when they use anglicized pronunciations in commercials, etc.)

Damkerng T.

But narrators always call Spain, Spain in English as well.

Anonymous

Yes, and you're entitled to find disrespect any place you like, but it doesn't mean it's actually there.

Anonymous

Besides, most speakers aren't capable of pronouncing everything the way you'd like... It would take some training to be able to produce the sounds of all the languages of the world properly.

Anonymous

So probably just about everyone in the world fails your disrespect test.

Damkerng T.

How would you call Coca-Cola in short in the US?

skullpatrol

22:28

Then to do it properly we have a lot of work to do ;-)

Damkerng T.

Here, we call'em Coke.

Anonymous

The other problem is, even after everyone puts in that effort, you'll have to retrain them to recognize the new pronunciations.

Anonymous

Since, if you pronounced every proper noun as in the language it came from, you'd fail to communicate fairly often.

Damkerng T.

Perhaps that's the reason why some brands name themselves differently in different countries.

skullpatrol

True dat^

Anonymous

22:31

Yeah, everyone has a different set of sounds they're able to recognize and reproduce.

skullpatrol

Yay companies just want you to buy their brand....

So name it appropriately

To the sounds of that country

Anonymous

We'll have to retrain Japanese to say [məkˈdɒnldz] instead of [makɯdonaɽɯꜜdo]... Ooh, that'll be tough.

Damkerng T.

This reminds me of the way we re-title Hollywood movies in Thai language.

It can be hilarious at times.

skullpatrol

Also Bollywood in Bombay

Anonymous

Movies get retitled a lot in other markets, sometimes even in the same language. Sometimes the changes are pretty weird.

Damkerng T.

22:37

For example, Beverly Hills Chihuaua -> Ms. Hi-So Dog Goes Countryside

Anonymous

I like the English title of Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi, which is Spirited Away

skullpatrol

Pronunciation has a huge influence on perception

Damkerng T.

I think Thai people are fetish with long movie names. :-)

Anonymous

Here in America, we seem to like short titles.

Damkerng T.

For example, Cash -> Cash, This Revenge Has Nothing Remained

Perhaps they're afraid the viewers don't know what to expect about a movie named Cash. :-)

Centurion -> Arrogant Warriors in Wild Kingdom

Date Night -> An Extraordinary Date Night, Mismatched All Over The Town, Everything Goes Crazy

^^

Anonymous

22:42

Ha

skullpatrol

I remember doing a question in math where I was reading "portion" as "pro-portion" which has a completely different meaning. I spent at least an hour trying to find that mistake >8(

Damkerng T.

I think we're kinda trying to embed the ad into the movie's names.

@skullpatrol Oh!

Killers -> An Angel or A Killer, Tell Me Right Now!

:D

Night at the Museum 2: Battle of the Smithsonian -> Night at the Museum 2: Incredibly Huge Museum, So Crazy Out of the World, Double Time!

I think I should get back to Hemingway. :-)

Anonymous

I'm trying to write music.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Hah!

The score, or the lyric?

Anonymous

A bassline.

Damkerng T.

22:55

@snailplane Oh, nice!

dum, dum, dum, dum, ...

Theta30

@DamkerngT. :)

Damkerng T.

:)

Damkerng T.

23:09

> "Ciaou!" he said. "What kind of time did you have?"
"Magnificent."
We shook hands and he put his arm around my neck and kissed me.
"Oughf," I said.
"You're dirty," he said. "You ought to wash. Where did you go and what did you do? Tell me everything at once."
"I went everywhere. Milan, Florence, Rome, Naples, Villa San Giovanni, Messina, Taormina----"
"You talk like a time-table. Did you have any beautiful adventures?"
"Yes."
"Where?"
"Milano, Firenze, Roma, Napoli----"
"That's enough. Tell me really what was the best."

> "You don't believe me? We will go now this afternoon and see. And in the town we have beautiful English girls. I am now in love with Miss Barkley. I will take you to call. I will probably marry Miss Barkley."
"I have to get washed and report. Doesn't anybody work now?"
"Since you are gone we have nothing but frostbites, chiblains, jaundice, gonorrhea, self-inflicted wounds, pneumonia and hard and soft chancres. Eery week some one gets wounded by rock fragments. There are a few real wounded. Next week the war starts again. Perhaps it starts again. They say so. Do you think I would do right…

> "Absolutely," I said and poured the basin full of water.
"To-night you will tell me everything," said Rinaldi. "Now I must go back to sleep to be fresh and beautiful for Miss Barkley."

Damkerng T.

> I took off my tunic and shirt and washed in the cold water in the basin.

> While I rubbed myself with a towel I looked around the room and out the window and at Rinaldi lying with his eyes closed on the bed.

Theta30

what is time-table?

Damkerng T.

A typo? It should be time-table.

Theta30

corrected, so?

Damkerng T.

Oh, it means the multiplication table.

2x2 = 4, 2x3 = 6, 2x4 = 8, ...

Theta30

23:13

it says "you talk like a time-table"

Damkerng T.

Just like a kid rehearse his multiplication table.

Theta30

I see

skullpatrol

Times table

Damkerng T.

It's spelled time-table in the novel.

Perhaps an old form. :-)

Today was also spelled To-day.

skullpatrol

Perhaps

Damkerng T.

23:17

> He was good-looking, was my age, and he came from Amalfi.

> He loved being a surgeon and we were great friends.

> While I was looking at him he opened his eyes.

> "Have you any money?"

> "Yes."

> "Loan me fifty lire."

skullpatrol

Btw if you don't want to offend somebody pronounce their name as they would, not as you think it should be :-)

Theta30

@skullpatrol good point

Damkerng T.

I see. I usually try to pronounce their names the way they like.

Anonymous

@skullpatrol That's a rather different point than you made before.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I like those old hyphenated forms :-)

Damkerng T.

23:22

@snailplane Me too! It put me into that period.

Theta30

@DamkerngT. do we also say "loan me fifty dollar"? It sounds odd to my ears as opposed to "loan me fifty dollars"

Anonymous

Lire is a plural form of lira.

Theta30

ok, it makes sense now

skullpatrol

@snailplane but not totally unrelated :-)

Theta30

@snailplane So did they borrow the Italian plural?

explain

skullpatrol

23:26

Especially if their name, just like the name of their country, has sounds in it that are not in English @snailplane

Anonymous

@Theta30 Yes.

Anonymous

@Theta30 There's not much more to explain. The regularized plural liras is available but less common.

Damkerng T.

> I dried my hands and took out my pocket-book from the inside of my tunic hanging on the wall.

> Rinaldi took the note, folded it without rising from the bed and slid it in his breeches pocket.

> He smiled, "I must make on Miss Barkley the impression of a man of sufficient wealth. You are my great and good friend and financial protector."

> "Go to hell," I said.

> That night at the mess I sat next to the priest and he was disappointed and suddenly hurt that I had not gone to the Abruzzi.

> He had written to his father that I was coming and they had made preparations. I myself felt as badly as he did and could not understand why I had not gone.

> It was what I had wanted to do and I tried to explain how one thing had led to another and finally he saw it and understood that I had really wanted to go and it was almost all right.

> I had drunk much wind and afterward coffee and Strega and I explained, wine-fully, how we did not do the things we wanted to do; we never did such things.

Theta30

what kind of outfit is breeches?

Damkerng T.

I think breech ~ buttock.

Anonymous

23:34

collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/breeches

Damkerng T.

> We two were talking while the others argued.

> I had wanted to go to Abruzzi.

> I had gone to no place where the roads were frozen and hard as iron, where it was clear cold and dry and the snow was dry and powdery and hare-tracks in the snow and the peasants took off their hats and called you Lord and there was good hunting.

> I had gone to no such place but to the smoke of cafes and nights when the room whirled and you needed to look at the wall to make it stop, nights in bed, drunk, when you knew that that was all there was, and the strange excitement of waking and not knowing who it was with you, and the world all unreal in the dark and so exciting that you must resume again unknowing and not caring in the night, sure that this was all and all and all and not caring.

> Suddenly to care very much and to sleep to wake with it sometimes morning and all that had been there gone and everything sharp and hard and clear and sometimes a dispute about the cost.

> Sometimes still pleasant and fond and warm and breakfast and lunch.

> Sometimes all niceness gone and glad to get out on the street but always another day starting and then another night.

> I tried to tell about the night and the difference between the night and the day and how the night was better unless the day was very clean and cold and I could not tell it; as I cannot tell it now.

Theta30

it seems it is a word used in sports, hunting, horse riding

Damkerng T.

> But if you have had it you know.

> He had not had it but he understood that I had really wanted to go to the Abruzzi but had not gone and we were still friends, with many tastes alike, but with the difference between us.

> He had always known what I did not know and what, when I learned it, I was always able to forget.

> But I did not know that then, although I learned it later.

> In the meantime we were all at the mess, the meal was finished, and the argument went on.

> We two stopped talking and the captain shouted, "Priest not happy. Priest not happy without girls."

Damkerng T.

@Theta30 I think it might apply to military as well.

> "I am happy," said the priest.

> "Priest not happy. Priest wants Austrians to win the war," the captain said. The other listened. The priest shook his head.

> "No," he said.

> "Priest wants us never to attack. Don't you want us never to attack?"

> "No. If there is a war I suppose we must attack."

> "Must attack. Shall attack!"

> The priest nodded.

> "Leave him alone," the major said. "He's all right."

> "He can't do anything about it anyway," the captain said. We all got up and left the table.

Damkerng T.

(End of chapter 3)

Theta30

23:44

then chapter 4?

hehe

Damkerng T.

Tomorrow. :-)

One chapter a day.

Theta30

no problem

Damkerng T.

:D

You can download the whole book from archive.org, if you want to.

14 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> But if you have had it you know.

14 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> He had not had it but he understood that I had really wanted to go to the Abruzzi but had not gone and we were still friends, with many tastes alike, but with the difference between us.

19 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> He had always known what I did not know and what, when I learned it, I was always able to forget.

15 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> But I did not know that then, although I learned it later.

Nice Conditionals.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. That must be a typo for know

Damkerng T.

Oh, yes.

Can you fix it for me?

Yay! Thank you.

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