English Language Learners

Anonymous

13:00

17:00.

Anonymous

I thought it didn't, but it does!

Damkerng T.

Hah! UTC?

Anonymous

It has a Z at the end. I don't know what that means, but I suppose it might mean ... something.

Damkerng T.

Z ~ UTC

Anonymous

5

Q: Tool-tip timestamp shows a Z

When you mouseover a "3 hours ago" time, you get the exact timestamp. Here's an example of what I get -- the code says: <span title="2009-07-20 23:12:37Z" class="relativetime">Jul 20 at 23:12</span> And the tooltip says: "2009-07-20 23:12:37Z" Does this mean the code doesn't know what my t...

Anonymous

13:01

So is that in a few hours, then?

Damkerng T.

Oh, only four hours.

Anonymous

Oh, hey.

Anonymous

This laptop thinks it's in a different time zone than it is.

Damkerng T.

:D

Anonymous

So it is now 5AM.

Damkerng T.

13:03

Hmm...

Shifting time zone can be confusing. :-)

Anonymous

And 9AM would be 17:00Z.

Damkerng T.

It should be 13:03Z now.

Anonymous

Time zones can be confusing.

Damkerng T.

I use shifting as the headword, was it okay in that sentence?

Anonymous

Especially when you talk about flight departure / arrival times.

Anonymous

13:05

Well, time zone is countable. Shifting was fine, though.

Damkerng T.

Ah, I see. Couldn't talk about time zone abstractedly.

Anonymous

No, not really.

Damkerng T.

> Shifting time zones can be confusing.

Anonymous

I mean, I understand what you're doing, but it's non-standard to do so.

Damkerng T.

I think it's safer to use time zones because it's a generic use of time zone.

So, evidently I agree with your correction. Thank you.

Anonymous

13:07

Yeah, time zones in the plural usually has generic meaning.

Damkerng T.

This generic thingy can confuse me every once in a while too.

And, as far as I can tell, in some difficult cases, even knowledgeable native speakers could disagree with one another.

Anonymous

Native speakers disagree with each other all the time.

Damkerng T.

^^

Anonymous

More generally, speakers disagree with each other all the time.

Damkerng T.

LOL

So true. Indeed!

Anonymous

13:10

I don't always successfully manage to convince non-native speakers on ELL when I try to describe something.

Anonymous

Although to be honest, being convincing is usually not my goal.

Anonymous

People don't seem to care much for demonstrations that something is true.

Damkerng T.

Hah!

Anonymous

It just makes it take longer to get to the answer, which is what is true

Damkerng T.

Oh, I see.

Anonymous

13:11

And I think people on ELL sometimes appreciate not having to read through long answers.

Damkerng T.

I felt that way too lately.

But I think your answers usually get many upvotes and are also likely to be accepted.

Anonymous

Sometimes.

Anonymous

Looking at my latest page of answers, only half are accepted.

Damkerng T.

I think mine is less than half. :-)

Only about one third got accepted. Hehe.

Anonymous

All of my answers on the latest page have upvotes, but mostly not very many.

Anonymous

13:15

Which is okay.

Damkerng T.

I usually got only a few upvotes on each answer.

3 is great already. :-)

2 is good.

Anonymous

Hmm...

Damkerng T.

I think the size of the community is a big factor.

Anonymous

I have more reputation on Japanese Language with fewer posts.

Anonymous

Is the community getting bigger?

Anonymous

13:17

It feels like it is a bit.

Damkerng T.

I think so.

I can feel that clearly this week.

Anonymous

Not in proportion to visits, but a little bit.

Anonymous

ELL is up to nearly 20 questions per day.

Damkerng T.

I think we have more answerers.

Anonymous

It mostly hovered around 15 questions per day early on.

Anonymous

13:18

It dipped down to 10 at times

Damkerng T.

I see.

Anonymous

Of course, early on a large portion of those questions were asked by Listenever :-)

Anonymous

(I couldn't decide on were or was just now.)

Damkerng T.

Doesn't were sound better?

Anonymous

Yeah, probably.

Anonymous

13:20

With a lot of those questions, it'd definitely take plural agreement.

Anonymous

Or with some other similar constructions

Anonymous

With a large portion, I was left feeling like it retained its singular head-nouniness.

Damkerng T.

I think a large portion of ~ most of.

Anonymous

I'm not sure why.

Anonymous

I agree that some words tilde other words

Damkerng T.

13:20

^^

Anonymous

Although those strings aren't interchangeable.

Damkerng T.

I think I haven't seen Listenever much lately.

Anonymous

She still posts.

Damkerng T.

That's true, but much less often than before.

Anonymous

Most recently:

Anonymous

13:22

5

Q: Can a pro-verb be followed by a noun phrase?

I’m confusing whether a pro-verb can be followed by a noun phrase. For example, in “I like Japanese, but my brother likes Chinese,” can I use does instead of likes?

verb

Anonymous

I'm not worried. She's posted more questions than anyone else. I think it's likely she'll stick around. :-)

Damkerng T.

I think so too.

> My brother does Chinese at university.

To do is really a generic verb. :-)

Anonymous

That's a possible sentence, but...

Anonymous

The problem with the question is pro-verb can mean several things.

Anonymous

But I don't think the use of does in the example fits any of them.

Anonymous

13:25

The thought of explaining why it isn't any of them is too tiring for me.

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure what is this pro-verb refers to, but I think it's a linguistic term.

I think I feel perfectly fine to say "I think I've sent you that email six months ago. Did you check your email carefully?" — Damkerng T. 3 hours ago

Anonymous

Think of pronouns. That's a more standard term.

Damkerng T.

If you state a time period and that time period has finished, you must use past simple. — JMB 2 hours ago

Anonymous

A pronoun is a type of pro-word which stands in for a noun.

Anonymous

Now generalize that concept to other pro-words.

Damkerng T.

13:27

Ah, I see.

Anonymous

You can describe English without the term pro-verb.

Damkerng T.

Standing-in makes it clicked.

Anonymous

If you do use it, you might refer to one of several constructions.

Anonymous

For example, Maulik brought up VP ellipsis following an auxiliary.

Anonymous

"Would you like some cake?" "I would [like some cake]."

Anonymous

13:28

"Have you ever seen that movie?" "I haven't [seen that movie]."

Anonymous

"I don't like mayonnaise, but someone out there probably does [like mayonnaise]."

Anonymous

You could call that do an example of a pro-verb. I wouldn't, but you could.

Anonymous

(Obviously, I would call it VP ellipsis following an auxiliary. :-)

Damkerng T.

*"I don't like mayonnaise, but someone out there probably does [like] mayonnaise."

Anonymous

Right, star.

Anonymous

13:30

Medial ellipsis is rare

Damkerng T.

Saying rare means it's possible.

Anonymous

Yes, but it doesn't mean it's a matter of chance.

Anonymous

We talked about gapping already.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I don't think gapping will leave verb to do in that place.

Anonymous

yesterday, by Damkerng T.

Jan 13 at 22:03, by snailplane

> [One girl has written a poem], and [the other ___ a short story].

Anonymous

13:32

That's medial ellipsis.

Damkerng T.

"One girl has written a poem, and the other a short story".

Anonymous

Yes.

Damkerng T.

*"One girl has written a poem, and the other has a short story".

Anonymous

That's ungrammatical with the intended meaning.

Anonymous

It's grammatical with a different meaning.

Damkerng T.

13:32

Yes.

Anonymous

There are a few typical types of gapping.

Anonymous

The above is an example of subject + object.

Damkerng T.

By the way, is this really wrong: I think I've sent you that email six months ago. Did you check your email carefully?

Anonymous

It's funny. I'd swap the perfectness.

Anonymous

> I think I sent you that email six months ago. Have you checked your email carefully?

Damkerng T.

13:34

So I should either add since or use past tense instead?

Anonymous

You can't add since. At least, I can't see where.

Anonymous

But yes, I'd nix the cliticized auxiliary have.

Damkerng T.

I think I've sent you that email since six months ago.

Anonymous

Since denotes a continuous period of time starting at some point (six months ago) and continuing until the reference time (here, the present)

Damkerng T.

So sent is already done?

Anonymous

13:36

Yes, sent can be viewed as an instantaneous action.

Damkerng T.

(How can I be sure that it's already done? I mean it can still be in the process of delivery.)

Anonymous

Doesn't matter. When you hit the button and your computer says it's sent, it's sent.

Anonymous

You might get a message later saying it couldn't be delivered.

Anonymous

Arrival is another story.

Damkerng T.

Ah, I see.

> Have you checked your email carefully?

Anonymous

13:37

You might be able to get away with saying I'm sending it to you to describe something in transit, but . . .

Anonymous

Don't ask me to explain why I prefer have over did. I have no idea.

Damkerng T.

I think it's related to that BEL-AMI question.

Anonymous

I don't know which question that is.

Damkerng T.

1

Q: "We have been until the last month" Present Perfect Simple + until + last month?

we have been until the last month Last month? How do you explain the use of last month with the present perfect tense? I don't see that until last month ( week and year) is grammatically equivalent to until recently or until now in this context? QUESTION The secretary-general give you h...

present-perfect past-perfect time-construct

He said: We are -- we have been until the last month.

I think he changed the tense because he wasn't sure if it's still going on.

Anonymous

It's just a dysfluency. They mentally rewrote their sentence as they were saying it.

Damkerng T.

13:40

(Just like my sending we discussed a moment ago.)

Anonymous

Everyone does that sometimes, some people more than others.

Anonymous

I disagree with BobRodes that it makes them sound like a non-native speaker.

Anonymous

It just sounds like spoken English to me.

Damkerng T.

But I think BEL-AMI is also a non-native speaker?

Anonymous

I didn't say that they were a native speaker

Damkerng T.

13:41

I see.

Anonymous

Just that I disagree that that particular combination of words makes them sound like they're not one.

Anonymous

Native speakers do that exact thing all the time--change their sentence as they're saying it

Anonymous

Sometimes tone of voice can make it clear that you're "overwriting" the previous word or phrase, and that might not come across in a transcript.

Anonymous

Sometimes not.

Damkerng T.

The problem is I'm thinking that there is no tense in English that can support what he was thinking. (I'm speculating his thought here.)

Anonymous

13:42

You can express anything in English.

Damkerng T.

In this case, I think you can't, unless you have probably or might or perhaps tagging along.

Anonymous

I don't see any evidence for that.

Damkerng T.

Here is what I'm speculating...

Anonymous

But then, I'm not a mind reader.

Damkerng T.

Let's suppose that what I'm thinking is true.

And let's try to select an appropriate tense.

Anonymous

13:44

Okay! There are two to pick from.

Damkerng T.

I think he knew for sure that the process was continued until that last month.

But he didn't know for sure if it's still going on.

So it's difficult to choose the tense.

Anonymous

So you're saying you want to communicate modal meaning.

Anonymous

And that it's impossible to do so without inserting modal words of some sort.

Damkerng T.

I think that's what he was confused (by himself).

Because being a politician, saying something ungrammatical might be better than saying something wrong.

Anonymous

I can offer up my own speculation.

Damkerng T.

13:47

Please. curious

Anonymous

He could have started with we are because he thinks of it as still ongoing, and switched to we have been because he wanted to describe the current state and was about to talk about a disruption, but since he still thinks of it as ongoing (perhaps with a temporary disruption) he didn't speak of it with the simple past or past perfect.

Damkerng T.

nod

Anonymous

I'm not 100% sure, but afaict revising the question itself is preferred over adding information with "Edit" or "Update" appendices. Another reason might be snailplane's comment can still be found below. Imho, adding a note (without saying Edit or Update) by rephrasing what snailplane said as "According to snailplane's comment below, ..." might be a better solution. — Damkerng T. 2 days ago

Anonymous

It doesn't matter if it says edit or update; you can't edit an answer to a separate question into a question.

Damkerng T.

We shouldn't?

Anonymous

13:50

No.

Anonymous

Answers are for answers. Questions are for questions.

Anonymous

Learner asked a follow-on question in a comment on my answer. I responded with another comment on my answer.

Anonymous

If the comment were to be edited in anywhere, it would have to be into my answer.

Damkerng T.

Not even the comment that might help the question to be clearer?

Anonymous

Let me rephrase your question.

Anonymous

13:52

> Not even if the answer might help make the question clearer?

Anonymous

If you feel an answer is relevant to the question itself, post it as an answer.

Anonymous

Don't edit answers into questions.

2

Anonymous

That's not how the site works.

Damkerng T.

But what he did was adding your comment, not your answer.

(Was it the same in that question?)

Anonymous

Yes, they added my comment on my answer to the question.

Anonymous

13:53

Which is just weird.

Damkerng T.

Let me see...

Anonymous

It doesn't matter how it was edited in. It would get edited back out regardless.

Damkerng T.

Oh, it's from a comment below your answer.

Anonymous

Yes.

Anonymous

If it were to be edited in somewhere, it would have to be on my answer.

Damkerng T.

13:55

I agree.

Anonymous

But I like tear off better, so that's what I put on my answer, and I didn't edit in the alternative learner asked about.

Anonymous

(It's my answer, so I'm free not to include it :-)

Damkerng T.

So it might be better if he just asked you in the comments of your answer.

Ah, I think I see your point.

Anonymous

0

Q: Bewildering transformation of sentences

So, I was looking through my textbook, and found this question: Transform the sentence: 'Long live the King!' into a meaningful sentence, that expresses the same meaning (exact meaning; change the form, without changing the sense) as expressed by the given sentence. Your new sentence should e...

grammar grammaticality questions tag-questions question-marks

Anonymous

I don't understand. "Long live the King!" has optative meaning. How do you express it in question form?

Damkerng T.

13:59

Oh the comments are gone.

Long live the King! -> May the King live long!

Anonymous

That's not a question.

Damkerng T.

It's the first part of the question in his textbook.

Anonymous

"Long live the King!" was in their textbook, they said.

Anonymous

I assumed you were attempting to present an answer to the question. If not, I don't know what the right half was supposed to represent.

Damkerng T.

> Transform the sentence: 'Long live the King!' into a meaningful sentence.

Anonymous

14:03

Keep going.

Damkerng T.

Now the problem is: Your new sentence should end with a ? mark.

Anonymous

Yes.

Damkerng T.

How can I do that?

Anonymous

You can't.

Damkerng T.

I think I couldn't.

? May the King live long?

Anonymous

14:04

Maybe someone else will come up with an answer, but I don't see one.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Doesn't have optative meaning. Plus it's weird.

Damkerng T.

It's indeed weird.

LOL

Dipak Yadav answered that question.

Anonymous

When you say "May the King live long?" you're either asking if it's likely, or you're asking permission.

Anonymous

Well, they not-an-answered it.

Damkerng T.

That's what I thought.

But when I read the OP's question again, he did really answer it.

The OP didn't ask "What's the answer to my exercise?"

:D

@snailplane Perhaps asking for permission.

Dear Holiness, may you bless our King to live long?

Make sense?

Anonymous

14:10

Well, that's not what "May the King live long!" means.

Damkerng T.

Of course, it's not. :-)

But how can one convert an affirmative sentence into a question without changing the meaning?

That's impossible.

Anonymous

It's not always impossible.

Damkerng T.

Hah!

curious

Anonymous

Want an example?

Anonymous

> Pass me the salt.

Damkerng T.

14:12

nod furiously

Anonymous

There's an imperative with directive force.

Anonymous

> You will pass me the salt.

Anonymous

There's a declarative with directive force.

Anonymous

> Could you pass me the salt?

Anonymous

There's an interrogative with directive force.

Damkerng T.

14:13

I see.

Can we retain the meaning by appending the word please with a question mark?

Pass me the salt, please?

Long live the King, please?

Anonymous

Haha.

Damkerng T.

:D

Anonymous

Long live the King is not an imperative.

Damkerng T.

> So, I was looking through my textbook, and found this question

This makes me curious, what textbook does he use?

Anonymous

Apparently it was on ELU, but it was put on hold.

Anonymous

14:19

Unto death.

Damkerng T.

Even curiouser, what is the answer to this Transformation exercise that the book provides.

It was?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I think curiouser always means "stranger", because it's in reference to Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, when she cried out "Curiouser and curiouser!"

Damkerng T.

I got this curiouser from that book. :-)

Anonymous

But I don't think it can mean "possessing more curiosity"

Damkerng T.

I meant it's getting curiouser and curiouser to me.

Anonymous

14:21

Ahh.

Anonymous

I was confused because you said it made you curious, which suggests the other meaning :-)

Damkerng T.

Just like the way Alice said.

I think it made me curious, and it's curious to me at the same time. :-)

And the more I think about it, it's curiouser and curiouser.

Anonymous

Hehe.

Damkerng T.

Damkerng in Wonderland. :-)

I'm sure this transformation question is a rabbit hole!

Perhaps I shouldn't follow the white rabbit for now. :-)

Anonymous

To me, the rabbit hole seemed like a bit of a dead end this time.

Anonymous

14:25

I gave up fairly quickly!

Damkerng T.

^^

I'm taking a break, finding something to eat.

Will come back to Happy Birthday ELL soon. :-)

Anonymous

Oh, no! Does that mean I'm on the hook for writing it? :-)

Anonymous

14:43

I've been trying to make WendiKidd do it, but I haven't seen her online.

Anonymous

Well, someone should make a cake at least.

Damkerng T.

15:04

Hmm...

@snailplane Agree!

I'm thinking about posting a question.

But not sure how to make the question on-topic.

It could be on-topic, I think it should be, but it might be interpreted as opinion-based.

I'm thinking to ask...

"How to end a congratulation message?"

:D

Anonymous

Hehe!

Anonymous

"Congratulations!!!"

Anonymous

Everyone loves extra exclamation points.

Anonymous

(Well, not everyone everyone.)

Damkerng T.

I want it to be a little bit more colorful and all. Hehe.

I'm certain that I won't use "Yours sincerely" in this case. :)

Anonymous

15:11

It depends on what you're congratulating them for.

Anonymous

If it's a birthday, you could wish them many more.

Damkerng T.

You know who (or what) I'm going to congrat. Hehe! :D

Is it a good question?

"How to end a congratulation message for a community?"

I think it's on-topic.

> Practical problems you encounter while learning English

:-)

Anonymous

15:26

I'm trying to write something.

Damkerng T.

Yeah!

Anonymous

16:03

Now I just have to wait for 17:00Z. :-)

Damkerng T.

^^

I wrote...

> The community is always helping out, and very warmth welcoming.

Tyler suggested that there is something wrong with this "very warmth welcoming", but I have no clue. Can you help me please? :-)

(Just need a quick fix.)

Anonymous

Warmth is a noun. Warm is an adjective.

Damkerng T.

Oh!

So very warm welcoming is okay?

Anonymous

Welcome would be fine.

Damkerng T.

(I don't know since when it has become a set phrase for me. Perhaps from my old postcards.)

Anonymous

16:06

A warm welcome is a common phrase.

Anonymous

Oh, but in your sentence that would be weird.

Damkerng T.

is very warm welcome not is very warm welcoming?

Anonymous

Sorry, I didn't read closely enough.

Anonymous

Umm, I'm not sure how to repair your sentence. :-)

Damkerng T.

Haha.

Must be because it was translated from my language.

It seems like it was translated that way (but I couldn't really remember how it was translated) back in my schooldays.

I take it that it's an unusual phrase in English.

Anonymous

16:40

Did I say 17:00? I meant 19:00.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Oh, I think you did. :-)

Anonymous

Hmm.

Anonymous

I guess I have to wait for a couple more hours to post, then!

Damkerng T.

nods

Me too! :-)

Oh! Tyler just posted that we shouldn't say "opposite to"!

And he quoted it from Longman Dictionary!

Anonymous

Well, opposite to is okay sometimes.

Damkerng T.

16:48

This is opposite to my Longman's grammar book. :-)

Looking up...

Anonymous

6

A: "The opposite of" vs. "opposite to"

If you mean that small is the antonym of big, then (1) is the normal construction. Opposite to is sometimes used for things that face each other, but to is often omitted.

Damkerng T.

What Barry said agrees with Longman English Grammar.

It is often omitted, but having it doesn't make it ungrammatical.

So Longman Dictionary is in conflict with Longman English Grammar. :D

Perhaps opposite to is obsolete.

Anonymous

Obsolete...? Hmm, I don't think it is...

Anonymous

I see lots of contemporary usage in COCA.

Damkerng T.

I found only 20 of them ([be] opposite to).

They're all marked as adjective.

Anonymous

16:57

Be is not necessary.

Damkerng T.

(Don't know how reliable PoS in COCA are.)

Anonymous

> By contrast, HCB and TNC were associated with an echogenic intima-media complex, suggesting that these pesticides might affect vascular walls with compositions opposite to those affected by highly chlorinated POPs.

Damkerng T.

That opposite seems to be an adjective.

Anonymous

I wasn't informed that the part of speech was relevant

Damkerng T.

Hmm...

Anonymous

16:59

12 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

Oh! Tyler just posted that we shouldn't say "opposite to"!

Damkerng T.

Here is from my Longman English Grammar...

Transcript for