English Language Learners

Anonymous

00:06

@birdman1234 "Leave" meaning what specifically? Log out from?

Damkerng T.

05:07

> The guidelines that follow here should help us to a basic understand of X use.

help us to a basic understand, sounds odd to me.

> And do not worry too much about mistakes - only very rarely will they cause your listener or reader to misunderstand you!

your listener or reader? shouldn't it be your listeners or readers?

> The guidelines that follow here should help us to a basic understanding of X use.

help us to a basic understanding? Sounds odd to me.

Thinking about "help X to a Y"....

Perhaps "help him to the other side" doesn't sound too bad...

and many use it, at least on the web.

But I would avoid it and use "take him to the other side" instead.

Gigili

06:07

What? What's a translator software?

Damkerng T.

@Gigili ?

Gigili

Excuse me?

Damkerng T.

Do you mean "Google Translate"?

Gigili

I'm referring to the question which was asked a few minutes ago

0

Q: Spanish - English Translator Software

Is there any language translator software that works offline for window pc. my specific need is Spanish-English-Spanish translator that works offline

translation

Damkerng T.

Oh! Is that on-topic?

Gigili

06:11

We might have TRANSLATION software, but TRANSLATOR software?

Is that even a question? I highly doubt it

Damkerng T.

I see. But then again, is it on-topic?

Hmm... Is it possible that some software developers call their products "Translator Software"?

acetools.biz

They call their Language Translation Software "Ace Translator Software".

But I think it's not relevant to the OP's usage. :-)

Gigili

@DamkerngT. "Ace Translator"

Maulik V

Hey!

Damkerng T.

Yes. But the title of their homepage (try bookmarking it) is "Ace Translator Software".

Hey, @MaulikV.

Gigili

They're translation softwares anyway

Hello!

Damkerng T.

06:17

Of course!

Maulik V

What's up?

Damkerng T.

Nothing much. :D

Maulik V

It rained last night!

quite unusual in India in this month!

Damkerng T.

Was it heavy?

Oh!

Maulik V

Ah, it wasn't teeming

but drizzling

Damkerng T.

06:20

It's very cold over here.

Maulik V

Okay, this raises a doubt...

the use of the word 'but'

I don't like dry fruits, but cashew

Damkerng T.

What is it?

Maulik V

is that correct?

Damkerng T.

I think that sounds weird.

Maulik V

I'm not an engineer, but doctor.

this?

Damkerng T.

06:22

I don't like dry fruits, just cashew. Sounds a little better.

Maulik V

I can tolerate anything, but hunger.

Damkerng T.

I'm not an engineer, (I'm) just a doctor.

Maulik V

this means I can tolerate anything under the sun BUT cannot hunger

naah.... but is perfectly used there!

Damkerng T.

Affirmative vs. negative?

Maulik V

Yeah!

got it?

I can tolerate anything, but hunger.

Gigili

06:24

That's fine

Maulik V

But now, the issue is... if I say...

Damkerng T.

+1

Gigili

The construction is familiar

Maulik V

Don't under estimate that man. He's a common man, but the Chief Minister!

He's weak, but in power.

Gigili

That's one word, "underestimate"

Maulik V

06:25

the use of 'but' then confuses me

Oh yeah!

Damkerng T.

@MaulikV This one is fine.

Maulik V

he's weird, but manager.

Damkerng T.

@MaulikV This one is not.

Gigili

Yeah, I'd rather say "he's a weird manager"

Maulik V

he's a weird person, but manager. (So, we cannot do anything in office to teach him a lesson!)

Gigili

06:27

Since being a manager and being weird don't contradict each other

Damkerng T.

He's a weird person, but a manager.

Gigili

@DamkerngT. Still problematic.

Maulik V

He's a common man, but Minister

Damkerng T.

I would avoid writing that myself, but I think it's acceptable.

Maulik V

Ah, that separates from the previous clause anyway....hhmmm

Gigili

06:28

@MaulikV Which implies that a minister must be uncommon

Doesn't make sense to me

Maulik V

I like dry-fruits, but cashew will then mean that I don't like cashew

:)

Damkerng T.

I think I had a related discussion a few years ago.

Looking...

Maulik V

@Gigili This is the hot topic in India. You won't understand :)

A common man, a very common man has become the Chief Minister!

and has created a chaos!

Gigili

Oh!

Maulik V

Yes...it's unimaginable

The chief minister sitting on the road, denying security, denying protection, denying luxury cars, bungalow and what not!

So, he's a common man, but Chief Minister!

I like dry-fruits, but cashew

Damkerng T.

06:31

Jan 13 at 22:03, by snailplane

> [One girl has written a poem], and [the other ___ a short story].

Maulik V

I got it..in both the examples, the latter one separates it from the clause of the first

that's and

and clear!

Damkerng T.

Nope, it's not.

It's debatable. :-)

Maulik V

@Gigili where you belong to?

how?

Damkerng T.

> One girl has written a poem, and the other a short story.

Maulik V

One girl has written a poem, and the other has written a short story

yes, acceptable!

Damkerng T.

06:33

Yes, but without the second has written, is it acceptable?

Maulik V

Yes, recently I read somewhere

Gigili

@MaulikV To this world

Maulik V

As the latter one is actually an extension (I think J.R. mentioned it) and gives full idea of 'writing'

I mean the context of 'writing' and nothing else

Damkerng T.

Ah, so J.R. already mentioned it.

Maulik V

He has eaten an orange, and I an apple.

@Gigili Congrats!

Damkerng T.

06:35

? He has eaten an orange, but she an apple.

Maulik V

:)

Damkerng T.

@MaulikV If you can write it, you can say it too. :-)

Maulik V

When we use comma before too?

Damkerng T.

I don't think you need it.

But you can use it, if you want to.

Maulik V

In any case?

Damkerng T.

06:39

Hmm... Don't know. Might need an example sentence.

Hello @snailplane!

Gigili

11

Q: Comma or no comma before "too"?

Consider the following examples: "And it is a bottle, too." "And it is a bottle too." Is there a semantic difference between these two sentences? Or do they mean the same thing, with or without the comma before "too"? If not, what is the correct usage of the comma in context of "too"?

comma

Maulik V

You shocked the world, and inspirited it, too!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It's possible. People can call their software anything they want, even Bob.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Oh! That's.. That's... (I lost my words. :-)

Anonymous

But I would never refer to software as a "translator". People haven't come up with software that can do what a translator does yet.

Maulik V

06:42

Agree @snailplane

Anonymous

Nonetheless, as of late, it seems like "translator" more often refers to software that does machine translation than to an actual translator...

Maulik V

Hi Crystal.

:)

Anonymous

Hello!

Maulik V

The mightiest example is Google Translate!

Damkerng T.

Isn't it Google Translate?

Maulik V

06:43

Oops!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. This is called gapping.

Damkerng T.

Ah, yes. I keep forgetting the terminologies. :-)

Anonymous

It is Google Translate, but people nonetheless say things like "I put it through a translator"

Damkerng T.

Thanks.

Anonymous

The terminology is unimportant as long as you can either 1. describe the concept or 2. intuitively make use of the concept

Maulik V

06:44

Crystal, we were discussing about 'but'.

I like dry-fruits, but cashew.

Anonymous

Ungrammatical.

Maulik V

This means I don't like cashew but I like other dry-fruits right?

Damkerng T.

@snailplane In some sci-fi novels, Computer is a job title, not the software.

Maulik V

I can tolerate anything, but hunger.

?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Computer used to be a job, way back before any of us was born.

Anonymous

06:45

@MaulikV Nix the comma and you've got yourself a sentence.

Maulik V

I can tolerate anything but hunger?

Anonymous

Anything but hunger is an exceptive construction. It is not an example of gapping.

Maulik V

I'm not talking about gapping

Anonymous

Here, but means except.

Maulik V

This was the dicsussion before you came

so without comma, it goes fine

right?

Anonymous

06:47

Yes, without a comma it is fine.

Maulik V

I see.

Damkerng T.

I would avoid that comma in writing.

Anonymous

I avoid commas in speech. People get confused when you say them comma at least most of the time.

Damkerng T.

But perhaps I might write it myself, when I wanted to write as if I were talking.

Anonymous

That would be strange, though.

Damkerng T.

06:48

Oh comma come on comma you did-nt mean that period

:D

Maulik V

If I were talking. I understood. If he was or were ....then? If it was or were...?

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure, but I think I've read it around here that both are acceptable now.

if I was too.

But I might be wrong on this.

Anonymous

The verb be optionally shows a realis-irrealis contrast in conditionals, the former shown with was and the latter with were. Were is always optional except in fossilized constructions like "Were he to say . . .", so was doesn't always indicate realis reliably

Maulik V

If he were

Anonymous

It's (probably) dying out over time. Be is the only verb that shows this contrast.

Anonymous

06:51

Were, when used to indicate an irrealis conditional, is more formal than was.

Gigili

@snailplane Wow

I'd never learn grammar that way

Maulik V

yeah, if is what that decides was or were

Gigili

It's unnecessarily complicated with names and such

Maulik V

I was speaking....

Anonymous

Hah

Maulik V

06:52

but then if I were speaking

Anonymous

As I said earlier, the terminology is unimportant as long as you can either understand or intuitively make use of the concepts involved

Gigili

I'd rather learn it the way I learned my mother tongue

Anonymous

Feel free!

Anonymous

I'm just talking about English. I'm not teaching anyone how to speak.

Damkerng T.

> The guidelines that follow here should help us to a basic understanding of X use.

Anonymous

06:55

And "sometimes if I were sounds better" is about all a lot of people can come up with on the was-were contrast.

Gigili

Umm, and I'm just expressing my opinions

Anonymous

Sure, and feel free to do that, too.

Anonymous

They aren't going to harm me :-)

Maulik V

COMMA before too @DamkerngT.

:P

Anonymous

Although if you come up with a rule like were after if, you unfortunately won't manage to correctly describe when it's used.

Maulik V

06:56

Like??

Anonymous

Although it is, of course, much simpler.

Maulik V

And... if he were or was?

Anonymous

> I decided to check the ingredients and see if I was allergic.
> *I decided to check the ingredients and see if I were allergic.

Maulik V

True...but the latter one

right?

Anonymous

But the latter one what?

Maulik V

06:58

correct

?

Anonymous

No, the latter one is weird.

Maulik V

Oh!

Anonymous

It's a counterexample to your rule.

Maulik V

Yeah, yeah. getting it

Damkerng T.

@MaulikV There's no too in there. :)

Maulik V

06:59

Is it something then - If but then when it describes to be in place of then use were.

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