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18:00
> The city was surrounded by lovely pastures.
I guess you water example makes it clear to me now.
This ^ is probably closer to the strewn example.
Noöne actually decided to surround the city.
Noöne :)
And it does not seem reasonable to say the pastures are the "cause" of the surrounding that happened.
So it may be better to think of surrounded as an ossified participle, a participle that has become an adjective in this situation.
Ah, that reminds me some of them.
interested perhaps.
18:03
Right, interested is similar.
Thematic relations become less clear and less useful as you delve into more abstract verbs...
I think today StoneyB just made a comment about It is hereby informed ... as ungrammatical.
Yeah that doesn't sound right...
But informed is an adjective too.
Is it?
18:09
Yes, sure, but in a different sense.
I agree. The meaning doesn't seem to apply.
You can say it is said that...
And it was proclaimed that...
I think the reason is that you can passivise informed and take the person you inform as the subject: I was informed that...
But not It is informed that...
Because you can do that, the it is... construction is not possible. Or that would be my guess.
I trust both of you.
And, really, come to think of it, It is informed that... sounds a little strange indeed.
18:13
You can't say I was said by her. Nor I was proclaimed by her.
So the slot it was said, it was proclaimed is still available for those verbs.
What about It was mentioned that...
(Because I was mentioned by her. sounds okay to me.)
That is possible.
Hmm.
But I was mentioned is not like I was informed.
The thematic roles are different.
I was mentioned => I = theme.
I think I get it.
I was informed => I = experiencer/recipient(?).
Not sure what to call that role. But it is different.
Your remark (I = theme) made it clear.
18:16
And the difference is significant because the actions described by the verbs are fairly similar.
OK.
Thematic role is a good concept.
nods
I wonder why they don't teach "thematic roles" to ELLs.
It's all very complicated...often several modes of explanation are possible.
@DamkerngT. Yeah I don't know that either.
It can be useful.
^^
I bet!
Only if I knew that before. :)
18:19
Heh.
You also can't say it was told that... So that matches my theory: tell is like inform.
So any verb can either have I was x-d that... or it was x-ed that..., but not both.
Or at least any verb expressing something like "saying".
nods
I also have another problem, but not related to grammar.
Oh?
Do you live near Bangkok?
18:27
Right.
I live in Bangkok.
Can you get to supermarkets or shops?
Of course. What is it?
I don't know, they're closing off parts of the city...?
Apparently, you still have electricity and Internet access.
Oh, I don't go into the city.
I live hmm... what's the word
the border of the city.
Yes.
Ah, the word is suburb.
18:30
Ah OK.
So the blockades do not affect you?
Or do you need to go to the centre?
But I'm a little concerned too.
Luckily, I don't need to, at least not very soon.
Your news is fast. :)
The shooting was just reported on my TV.
Oh, you just meant the blockades.
On the last updates, we already have the shooting. Hehe.
Shooting?
Oh, dear.
Yup.
We've got two victims.
18:35
I thought the protests were fairly non-violent and the police did not try to arrest people too much?
One is already in the hospital. The other is uncertain.
I'm afraid that the history will repeat itself soon enough. :)
Hmm.
That is sad.
What percent of the people do you think support the protesters?
I only watch news at 8 p.m.
So I'm still uninformed.
I just hope we can avoid that.
I read that the army supports the protests.
18:38
Will be informed in 22 minutes.
Of course!
It was the same the last time.
@RegDwigнt Did you mean Thailand's political news?
18:51
@DamkerngT. the evening news here, unlike in many a country, are excellent, covering the entire world.
That includes Thailand, yes.
International news can easily come before domestic news, even.
I see.
Something virtually unheard of in certain cultures.
Or on certain other channels here, of course.
There are even crappy channels that have "action news", as they outright call them. Pure garbage.
So it's not like everything is excellent here, just that you can have excellence if you want to.
And I do want, so I do get.
But I don't know where you live. GMT+1 means Sweden?
18:54
Sweden is in the timezone, but I am pretty sure the timezone is just a bit larger than Sweden alone.
I'm sure too. That's why I couldn't tell. :)
Yeah. Actually I live not that far away from Cerberus.
But now I must run, to fetch some soup before the news begins.
Lators.
I see. See you.
@RegDwigнt Really? Like which?
The even news will certainly have the important topics covered here, but...the style has been dumbed down a lot over the past decade.
And there will also be a couple of stupid, pop-culture topics thrown in, alas.
But of Thailand is covered.
Although newspapers are a lot better, at least the good ones.
@Cerberus He made me curious where both of you are. :)
19:00
I Holland, he Germany.
Ah, I see. Thanks.
I Thailand. But you already know that. :)
Probably 500 km between us or so, I don't know what town he lives in.
I do.
I was in Frankfurt twice.
Only a short visit each time.
Never been to Holland.
But I always love the photos.
Oh, and your soccer team. :)
Cool.
Hi
@DamkerngT. I'm really sorry I don't think so
19:13
Think what?
Hey, I don't lie.
I really was in Frankfurt, twice.
I never think you are a...... person
Really sorry for myself
It's not important for me
So yeah. The evening news are over.
@RegDwigнt How was it?
Nothing much about Thailand, except the same stuff as the last X days. Demonstrations, that opposition leader talking, some background explanation of what's going on.
Really no difference to yesterday's news except for the date.
I see. I guess that the news shouldn't travel that fast (on TV).
But you might have an update tomorrow.
(About the shooting.)
19:18
Oh they do travel fast. I suppose they didn't deem them important enough after all.
The news travel around the world instantaneously.
I see.
> Yingluck refuses to step down.
That was today's news here, I think.
Stepping down or not, I'm afraid that doesn't change anything much.
19:21
Yeah it sounds like a vicious circle.
It is.
What percentage of the people support the demonstrators, you think?
Not that much, but much enough.
Here is what I think...
Is it like 1 %?
40 %?
I have no idea.
Gimme a number!
10% on one side, 10% on the other, the rest 80% tries to make their living.
19:23
Ah OK.
But...
The majority votes for Yingluck?
So just for the sake of completeness and for posterity, a rundown of today's news here.
- Top news: France, proposed economic reforms
- Egypt, referendum on the constitution
- Tunisia, third anniversary of the Jasmine Revolution
- First domestic item: No-Spy-Treaty with the US failing
- Washington, budget compromise talks
- Thailand, same stuff as yesterday
- Google buys Nest
- Air Berlin sues the Berlin airport
- Domestic: minimum wages for butchers
- Domestic: availability of emergency contraception pills
- Domestic: WW2 bomb found and disabled
- Domestic: "Un-Word of the Year" has been chosen
- Thailand, same stuff as yesterday
^^
@Cerberus Yes, but it was not a landslide.
That's only six out of twelve items domestic, with six of the top seven international.
And more importantly, it's regional.
Which mean in some areas, one side won landslide.
In other areas, the other side also won landslide.
And that... is a real problem.
Jan 4 at 18:44, by WendiKidd
Please do not share personal contact information (such as your email address) in this chat room. Sharing personal information with strangers can be dangerous. If you feel pressured to share this information, please flag the message so a moderator can intervene on your behalf. If the problem persists, feel free to flag any of your ELL posts and explain the issue. An ELL mod will contact you and handle the problem.
Funny Cerberus.
19:26
@RegDwigнt I guess his information was still fuzzy enough.
@RegDwigнt 11/19 domestic here, although about half of those 11 are about things that also affect other countries, such as "French horse meat exported to Holland" and "Dutch war criminal on trial in Germany".
@RegDwigнt Ah, damn. I lost the game?
@DamkerngT. this is how it starts. It's a downward spiral.
I see. I see.
Today he's telling you he's from Holland, tomorrow you're smoking pot in his house.
My profile says Amsterdam, so...
19:27
Argh.
Good luck finding me.
@Cerberus sorry, Nordholland, then.
Noord.
Hey, Germany is huge.
And everybody on SE already know you are in DE.
Right?
Germany is like half the size of Moscow now.
So huge.
19:29
Haha.
Yes. That is huge.
See?
Okay okay.
If it's larger than 1x1m, it's huge, for us.
I'm glad that I moved out from the center of the city.
Especially if it's larger than that in the vertical direction.
19:30
A what direction?
We don't have that.
The world is two dimensional, don't you know?
Oh I thought you were asking Damkerng in which direction he moved.
And mistyped "in" as "a".
This room is somewhat incomprehensible already!
I like.
And look, we only just mentioned Holland and already various stoneyed people show up.
3
I told you. I told you.
I was just trying to look for the bomb's clip. Couldn't find it.
Hello @StoneyB
I will check on Watch People Die in due time.
But not today.
According to the news, no one died yet.
Oh. Well.
Then.
19:33
Three injured.
Just another bomb. There are probably like ten of that kind going off in Iraq right now.
No wonder they didn't bother reporting on it.
They barely mentioned the eleven people who died in Egypt.
I'm glad that I weren't there right now too.
@RegDwigнt Haha, nice.
He is so stoney, he ain't even responding.
So "nice" is relative.
Looks like kalina is a halfbot already, simply posting "no" whenever she sees a "yes".
19:36
No, that makes it even nicer.
@RegDwigнt Probably her hind half. I saw cogs in the pony's derrière.
Das muß weh tun.
Denk ich auch.
Oh, Beer Q & A in Area 51.
But it's live already, no?
Wow.
They can't ask their question in Cooking.SE?
19:40
1163
Homebrewing (Beer, Wine, etc.)homebrew.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for dedicated home brewers and serious enthusiasts.

Currently in public beta.

In beta for 1163 days
Eh? Is it the same one? Probably not.
If they didn't take off, beer alone never will.
194
Beer

Proposed Q&A site for beer aficionados and collectors

Currently in commitment.

You mean this one, I suppose.
116
Alcoholic Beverages

Proposed Q&A site for bar staff, connoisseurs, cocktail mixologists, wine tasters, lager lovers, stout sippers, and beverage beginners to learn about the preparation and appreciation of alcoholic beverages

Currently in definition.

I think I will go ahead and propose an Alcohol site.
So many things in Area 51.
19:42
We have beer, we have wine, we have brewing, we have beverages. But what about alcohol?
What does this mean? You can commit to 3 more proposals.
A site only for methanol, ethanol, and co.
I have a limitation to my commitment here?
@DamkerngT. there is a maxium of 3 on how many proposals you can be supporting at any given time.
The idea is that if you just commit to everything, you don't really care.
I see. That's about the proposals before the Beta?
19:44
And even if you do care, which you don't, you just don't have the time to promote them all.
@DamkerngT. commitment extends well into the beta. It can only be fulfilled by asking or answering ten questions on the new site.
Then you get your commitment back and can commit to something else.
I see.
Sounds fair enough.
Though there might be a time factor of some sorts, too, I'm just noticing.
Because you see, I never fulfilled my commitment for ELL.
It's not under my "fulfilled commitments". I only had like two questions and four answers until only very recently.
But, at the same time it's not under my active commitments, either.
But weren't you the one who proposed ELL?
19:47
So I suppose they gave me like half a year or what have you, and then gave up on me and chalked it up to my failed commitments, which are (thankfully) not publically displayed.
@DamkerngT. yes, but that is orthogonal to committing to it.
ELU was proposed by someone who never even registered on it.
It was someone called "GoodPerson".
Nice name.
They have a ton of rep on Area51, but I never saw them on any SE site actually.
5.7k 3 1
Thank goodness that he's on Earth!
I think JSB has something similar. But cooler.
No wait.
Not JSB.
It was Orbling, or Stoney right there...
Or F'x?
Are there we go.
F'x it was.
19:50
That's the sign for Earth.
A globe? Ah, I see.
Astronomical symbols are symbols used to represent various celestial objects, theoretical constructs and observational events in astronomy. The earliest forms of these symbols appear in Greek papyri of late antiquity. The Byzantine codices in which the Greek papyri were preserved continued and extended the inventory of astronomical symbols. New symbols were further invented to represent many just-discovered planets and minor planets discovered in the 18th-20th centuries. All these symbols were once commonly used by professional astronomers, amateur astronomers, and astrologers. While th...
You will know Venus and Mars.
Sure we all do.
From feminine and masculine, respectively.
The others are more obscure.
Sonne, Mond make sense.
Vesta looks like a TV.
19:52
Yeah. Venus is the hand mirror she's holding. Mars is his shield and spear.
But the others I'd have to look up.
Even the one for Earth I don't quite remember the meaning of.
Iris looks a little like an eye.
@RegDwigнt Why is masculine not heaven?
Neptun. also looks familiar. Must be a trident.
Gaia "married" Ouranos.
> a globus cruciger,[43] or an inverted symbol for Venus[14]
more popular in non-geocentric contexts
> Globe with equator and a meridian[9][42]
That's all possible explanations for Earth.
@Cerberus I should be asking you.
19:55
So the symbol must be after we know that the Earth isn't flat?
Twas the guys you're researching who invented this stuff.
Not later?
@DamkerngT. nah, it's as old as the others, but our justification has been adapted I suppose.
Perhaps.
> Symbols for the classical planets appear in the medieval Byzantine codices in which many ancient horoscopes were preserved.[2] The written symbols for Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, and Saturn have been traced to forms found in late Greek papyri.[27] The symbols for Jupiter and Saturn are identified as monograms of the corresponding Greek names, and the symbol for Mercury is a stylized caduceus.
19:56
So Mediaeval...
> Bianchini's planisphere, produced in the 2nd century,[28] shows Greek personifications of planetary gods charged with early versions of the planetary symbols: Mercury has a caduceus; Venus has, attached to her necklace, a cord connected to another necklace; Mars, a spear; Jupiter, a staff; Saturn, a scythe; the Sun, a circlet with rays radiating from it; and the Moon, a headdress with a crescent attached.
A spear makes sense...
Anonymous
發!
So perhaps it is the moderns who screwed up, whenever they decided to pick Mars for masculine and Earth for feminine?
@snailplane Eh?
19:57
@snailplane slither
Anonymous
@Cerberus Snails don't know how to slither. That's snakes.
Anonymous
Do you know how to slither?
Does a snail walk?
@Cerberus no, not Earth. Venus.
19:58
Ares was a guy, and Aphrodite was a lady.
Same for Mars and Venus.
Earth is not feminine.
Ah... they crawl.
It's feminine flipped upside down.
@snailplane Ow...then what do snails do?
Anonymous
In Japanese, they hau!
19:59
...and also walk on water.
@RegDwigнt But they picked Earth for feminine?

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