English Language Learners

Damkerng T.

07:23

►

I finally found the clip I used for practicing my listening back then. :)

I sleep up-side down suspended in a special bat-like harness.

Damkerng T.

11:18

@Balamurugan Hello

Anonymous

15:30

@balamurugan I added you to the access list for this room, so you can chat without 20 reputation :-)

Damkerng T.

Hi @snailboat

Anonymous

15:48

Hello! :-)

Damkerng T.

I found it! I found that Tom Cruise's sentence!

Balamurugan

16:23

@DamkerngT. Hello :)

@snailboat Thank you very much for adding me in the chat room

Anonymous

@Balamurugan Hehe, no problem! :-)

Balamurugan

I am Balamurugan from India. Currently working as a software developer.

@snailboat Where are you from ?

Anonymous

@Balamurugan I live in the US!

Balamurugan

Oh That's great.

While watching English movies I can watch with or without subtitle ?

Damkerng T.

Oh, I just have finished answering another question.

Sorry, guys.

I didn't know that StoneyB was answering it too.

Balamurugan

16:31

Oh, No problem @DamkerngT. You are welcome back.

Damkerng T.

My Firefox crashed again.

@Balamurugan That's up to you.

Would you find it difficult if you watched them without subtitles?

Balamurugan

Yes some words I cannot able to understand meaning as well slang.

Damkerng T.

They are two separate problems.

Balamurugan

Yes you are correct.

1. Not understand the meaning of certain words.

2. Not understand the slang of American English.

Damkerng T.

More often than not, when ESL learners say that he or she don't understand the movie because they don't know the words...

It usually turned out that...

they can't quite really catch what they heard.

I'm not sure if you understand what I mean.

But let's say, it's easy to find a video on YouTube, I think.

Or better, I think we can try NPR news... (I posted a few links earlier today.)

@Balamurugan Are you still there?

Balamurugan

16:43

Yes I am searching for the older NPR news

Damkerng T.

Ah, that's good.

:)

0

A: good talkshows for download

You didn't give much background on your skill level and your specific needs (for example, do you need the transcript, do you prefer having native speakers pronounce words clearly, do you want any specific accents, do you need only sound or you prefer video clips, is online streaming enough or dow...

Balamurugan

I have one more doubt I facing difficulty on reading your previous statement.

More often than not means what exactly?

Damkerng T.

= usually

Anonymous

One thing that's helped me with recognizing words in speech is having subtitles in the language I'm learning.

Balamurugan

Oh, Thanks. Got it

Anonymous

16:47

Being able to read along and see what the words are, then watching again without the subtitles and testing how well I can hear them

Anonymous

Being willing to watch the same things a lot of times helps :-)

Damkerng T.

NPR is a great resource because they provide MP3, summary, and the transcript.

Anonymous

Oh, yes, or a transcript rather than subtitles

Damkerng T.

Transcript for a radio program is equivalent to subtitles for movies.

Anonymous

Along those lines, you can also read along with an audiobook

Balamurugan

16:49

@snailboat Watching the movie with and without subtitle I think it will very helpful.

Anonymous

@Balamurugan One paper I read suggested the following study plan:

Anonymous

1. Watch once with subtitles in your own language.

Anonymous

2. Watch with subtitles in the language you're learning.

Anonymous

3. Watch without any subtitles.

Damkerng T.

I agree.

Balamurugan

16:50

Oh In my mother tongue subtitle I think it's very difficult.

But 2 and Options I also agree.

* Sorry 2 and 3 options I also agree.

Damkerng T.

@Balamurugan You can edit your messages, if you want to.

Move the mouse to the place just before the first character of that line.

Balamurugan

Oh, Just now I saw the option.

Anonymous

Of course, you can skip step 1. :-)

Balamurugan

@snailboat Yes because it is very difficult to get subtitle in my own language.

Anonymous

@Balamurugan Ahh, I see

Balamurugan

16:54

Yes :(

Anonymous

It's fortunate, though, that English is a language with a lot of subtitles (and transcripts and audiobooks) available

Balamurugan

Yes I agree with you @snailboat.

@snailboat In my office If some one sent mail , I am not able to understand certain set of words. How can I correct it ?

Damkerng T.

You can ask that as a question in ELL.

Balamurugan

@DamkerngT. Yes sure.

Damkerng T.

Another way is... buy a good dictionary.

Actually, if your office have Internet access, you can look up most words using Google.

Balamurugan

17:02

@DamkerngT. For word I can either Google it or see in dictionary. But chain of words like "More often than not" == usually. What I can do it for this kind of situation ?

Anonymous

Definition for more often than not in Collins

Anonymous

Dictionaries have entries for lexical items, which may consist of multiple words. If you can't understand the words by looking at them individually, try looking them up.

Anonymous

Learner's dictionaries especially tend to have common phrases, even when they can be understood from their constituent words

Balamurugan

@snailboat That's great first time I am seeing we can see meaning for multiple words.

Anonymous

Many dictionaries list phrases like these under entries for individual words.

Anonymous

17:06

It's up to the people making the dictionary what exactly they should include, so different dictionaries include different things.

Anonymous

For that reason, a website that searches multiple dictionaries can be very useful.

Damkerng T.

Another good trick is: quote your search words

For example, instead of typing more often than not, you type "more often than not" in the search box, with quotes.

Google will lead you to many dictionaries.

Balamurugan

@DamkerngT. I tried it was working like a charm. Thanks for your info.

@DamkerngT. I am happy today I learnt two new things.

Damkerng T.

np (no problem) --I guess you might already know it, but anyway...

Balamurugan

@DamkerngT. You are available in chat room everyday ? If yes what are timings kindly let me know ?

Yes I know. :)

Anonymous

17:12

Office hours are posted on the door

Damkerng T.

Lately, I've been around here very often. (Perhaps, too often. :-)

Mostly, looking for hats. :)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. We're tied again!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Where is that One Hat Club link?

I think @Balamurugan can help us.

Anonymous

29

Q: "Oh The Horror" Hat Club

41 people join in. Each person upvotes every answer, other than theirs, to this question. Once we have 41 answers and votes, I will systematically accept each answer in turn. 41 people get the "Oh the Horror" and "Marauder" hats. Easy. Note: as @Gilles has noted, we can't get the Marauder hat...

discussion

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Yeah!

Balamurugan

17:15

I am searching but @snailboat pinged the link.

Damkerng T.

@Balamurugan You can help us (we're hunting for hats) by visiting that "Oh The Horror" link above, post an answer (anything would be fine), and click upvote to all the answers there.

I think we need about 10 more people. :)

Balamurugan

Ok I will do that

@DamkerngT. Sorry I am not able to up vote because it need atleast 20 reputation as well as I am not able to answer the question it needs 5 reputation.

Anonymous

@Balamurugan Oh, don't worry! Hat Club is just a silly little thing :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh I forget that. That's fine. Don't worry. :)

@snailboat Are you still interested in where construct was from?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Sure, why not?

Balamurugan

17:23

May I know what the "Hat Club" exactly means ?

Damkerng T.

I checked most of the PowerPoint I downloaded (I think most of them are Koehn's), and he always use construction, not construct.

@Balamurugan It's about Winter Bash.

winterbash2013.stackexchange.com

@Balamurugan You have one hat already! The "Hello, World!" hat.

Just check your profile, and click on the "snowflake" icon.

But as @snailboat said, it's kinda silly. :)

But I love them, anyway.

Balamurugan

Yes checked I got " Hello, World! " hat :)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Here is one lecture slide I found that uses the term "Sentence Constructs" rather than "Sentence Constructions": cs.umanitoba.ca/~ckemke/4060-NLP/Notes/Sentence-Constructs.pdf

Balamurugan

@snailboat Sentence Constructs it is a grammar ?

Damkerng T.

I think it is, but yesterday I learned that Sentence Construction(s) is the correct usage.

Anonymous

17:31

@Balamurugan It's not a common term, but in this context it means "ways that sentences are put together"

Anonymous

@Balamurugan Well then, welcome to Hat Club! :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat You can give Balamuruga a chatty hat, I think.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Well, I don't mean to say that construct is incorrect. Use of the term construct doesn't imply anything contrary to fact

Anonymous

And you'll find in linguistics that people use a lot of different terms to describe the same things.

Anonymous

(Not just in linguistics!)

Balamurugan

17:33

Thanks @snailboat. :-)

Anonymous

@Balamurugan Slang is difficult.

Damkerng T.

Earlier today, I reviewed some theses and papers I've downloaded, and I was surprised that all of them use the word construction not construct.

Anonymous

Remember that native speakers don't always understand slang either. A lot of the time the meaning conveyed by slang is understood by context, because new slangs words and phrases are created all the time, while old ones are forgotten

Damkerng T.

So I believe that I must read it (construct) from somewhere else, and maybe I should better use construction, just as in those theses.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yes, that's been my experience as well

Anonymous

17:35

I always use construction, I think

Damkerng T.

But the paper in the link I posted above explicitly uses the word construct. I don't know how widespread it is.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I would call those slides rather than a paper

Anonymous

Subcategorization may be a hint. That term implies a certain approach to linguistics

Damkerng T.

I have all kinds of them, theses, papers, and slides.

Anonymous

I have no problem referring to a thesis as a paper, because it's a thesis paper.

Balamurugan

17:38

@snailboat So instead of trying to understand the slang first I am trying to understand the words. It is fine ?

Damkerng T.

I usually use papers when I want to refer to those published in IEEE or JASA or some journals. Usually most of them are about 10-20 pages. Most theses will be much longer. But I think I can call a thesis a paper too.

@Balamurugan I think what you might want to learn are idioms.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I use the term paper without regard to whether or not it's been published

Damkerng T.

Ah, okay.

Anonymous

Many papers are published in some capacity without passing peer review, for example on arxiv

Balamurugan

@DamkerngT. I started to studying idioms.

Anonymous

17:44

@Balamurugan Okay, you have a "chatty, chatty" hat now! :-)

Balamurugan

Oh is it I am checking now....

Anonymous

If you look at the hats on your profile, you can "wear" them, and they'll show up on your avatar (which is currently a green square).

Anonymous

When the system catches up, they should appear in chat, too.

Anonymous

@Balamurugan It's up to you what you want to learn first. Many people recommend that learners focus on standard English

Balamurugan

I weared it.

Anonymous

17:45

Yay!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Yes, I've read some nice papers there too. (Usually I called them articles. Maybe I misused the term.)

clap clap clap!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I suppose you could ask a question about the difference between papers and articles.

Anonymous

In the case of papers on arxiv, you could probably refer to them as preprints.

Damkerng T.

Great idea! I will keep that for tomorrow.

Anonymous

Although I usually don't say preprint unless I have some expectation that a paper will eventually be published in a formal capacity

Anonymous

17:47

Because I think it has that implication, and many "preprints" are never "printed"

Damkerng T.

These papers (and articles, theses, slides, and some e-books) make me think that I should have bought iPad 64 GB instead of 32 GB.

I have to delete too many things I would like to carry around in my iPad.

Anonymous

Hehe!

Anonymous

I have a 64GB iPhone.

Damkerng T.

Wow!

Anonymous

A surprisingly large portion of it is taken up by pictures of my pet snails.

Damkerng T.

17:52

Hah

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

How many of them?

Anonymous

Just three!

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure how big they are.

Anonymous

This snail is about the length of my pinky finger.

Damkerng T.

17:54

Oh! iPhone has macro lens too?

Balamurugan

@snailboat What are the food you given to this snails ?

Damkerng T.

She looks quite healthy. :)

Anonymous

@Balamurugan Oh, they like veggies! (That's an informal form of "vegetables".) Especially lettuce and carrots

Anonymous

I also give them something called cuttlebone, which gives them calcium for their shells.

Balamurugan

Oh, That's good.

Anonymous

17:57

I have a baby snail, too! :-)

Anonymous

Balamurugan

How many babies are there ?

Damkerng T.

A cute little thing! :)

Anonymous

Oh, I only have one baby snail.

Balamurugan

It start's showing up my avatar with "Weared cat" :)

Damkerng T.

17:59

I've never thought that we can have snails as a pet.

Balamurugan

Me too

Damkerng T.

@Balamurugan I especially like this chatty cat hat.

Anonymous

Some people think it's weird, but I think they're cute :-) I like watching snails.

Damkerng T.

But today is an exception.

Anonymous

I think pet snails are popular in the UK lately. I live in the US, though.

Balamurugan

18:00

@DamkerngT. You are from which place ?

Damkerng T.

Lucky snails.

@Balamurugan I live in Bangkok.

I'm Thai.

Balamurugan

Oh, That's great. Nice tourist place.

Damkerng T.

Yup, I believe we're voted as one in the top-three from tourists around the world.

I'm not sure if Thailand is #1 on the chart.

I can't remember which chart.

But there are a lot of places I'm sure you can enjoy your visit in Thailand.

@snailboat How fast do they grow?

Say, from a baby one to a big one.

Balamurugan

I know some places there but not yet visited. In future I will visit.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. The baby is about a month old now.

Damkerng T.

18:07

I have one cat.

I'm not a photo guy, so no photo, sorry.

But he was so cute when he was little. Now he is a fat cat.

Balamurugan

What it's name ?

Damkerng T.

A silly fat cat. :)

Hagu

Balamurugan

Hagu means any meaning beyond that ?

Damkerng T.

Nope.

Balamurugan

Ok

Damkerng T.

18:09

It just something sound Japanese I invented up the minute a vet asked for his name.

Anonymous

Hehe, in Japanese it can mean "hug"! :-)

Damkerng T.

Perhaps that's the reason!

I think he think he is the owner of my house. LOL

Anonymous

I like taking photos since I got my phone. I don't have a real camera

Anonymous

It doesn't have a macro lens, so I do my best! :-)

Anonymous

It's a surprisingly good camera for a phone.

Damkerng T.

18:11

I'm sure that iPhone's camera must be way better than iPad's.

I can't practically take any photo with my iPad.

It will be so blurry.

Very blurrry...

Anonymous

I've gotten a few cameras over the years...

Damkerng T.

Perhaps because I can't keep my hands still enough.

Anonymous

My first digital camera was a relatively cheap Olympus camera I bought around 2001 or so (I think)

Balamurugan

@DamkerngT. Now the Thailand time morning 1'o Clock right ?

Anonymous

It sadly died.

Anonymous

18:14

Later I got a video camera that uses Mini-DV cassettes, which I still have, but I sadly broke one of the pins on it so I can't hook it up to my computer anymore :-(

Damkerng T.

@Balamurugan I usually go to bed around 4 or 5 am.

Balamurugan

@DamkerngT. Then morning you wake up at which time ?

Anonymous

In theory I could fix it, but the iPhone does take much higher resolution videos.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat iPhone is great indeed. I couldn't believe it when one of my friends showed his videos to me.

@Balamurugan Depends. But usually around 11 to 12.

Balamurugan

@DamkerngT. Then work ?

Damkerng T.

18:16

I have a couple of guys doing some maintenance work for me. :)

Good thing when you're a boss.

But the contract will end next year.

So, actually I'm looking for a new direction for my small business.

I expect it to be language related.

Balamurugan

Oh, I thought you are working in some office. That's why I asked the question.

Damkerng T.

:)

Balamurugan

Advance congrats for your new small business.

Damkerng T.

Thanks. :)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Being fluent in English is a pretty useful skill where you are, isn't it?

Damkerng T.

18:19

Of course.

Balamurugan

Language related means English or your own language.

Damkerng T.

Even with my not very fluent English, I still got many good opportunities through all these years.

@Balamurugan I'm actually thinking about having some website or some app for English learning.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Ah, well, from chatting with you one would get the idea that you're already fluent :-)

Damkerng T.

(Don't tell anyone ;)

Balamurugan

Yes I agree with @snailboat.

Damkerng T.

18:21

@snailboat You remember what I told you about my (miracle) three weeks.

Balamurugan

@snailboat You are working for a company or business ?

Anonymous

@Balamurugan Nope! Not at the moment :-)

Anonymous

I was for most of the last decade.

Anonymous

Right now I have a bunch of time to work on my own projects :-)

Balamurugan

@snailboat Own project means related to computer science ?

Anonymous

18:23

Oh, do I seem like the technical type?

Balamurugan

Not sure may be.

Christmas celebration is started over there @DamkerngT. ?

Damkerng T.

@Balamurugan You should know, we Thai people enjoy every holiday!

Anonymous

Even Boxing Day?

Balamurugan

Really ?

Damkerng T.

New Year we celebrate. Thai New Year we celebrate. Chinese New Year we celebrate. Christmas we celebrate. I'm sure some of us will enjoy Christmas so much that they will celebrate Boxing Day too. :)

I'm quite sure that we are in the top rank on the number of official holidays per year.

We have 20 holidays in 2014.

(I just checked with some authoritative source.)

Balamurugan

18:30

What is Magha puja and Asalha Puja related to ?

Damkerng T.

Oh! The spellings are a little unusual. We are usually used to Makha Bucha and Asanha Bucha.

But they're Buddhism related.

Perhaps you might already know them.

Balamurugan

Oh, I thought in India we called some of our festival ending with puja ex: ayuda puja. That's why I asked.

Damkerng T.

Makha Bucha is on the 3rd full moon, and Asalha Puja is on the 8th full moon.

I'm sure I know many Indian words.

:)

Balamurugan

@snailboat, @DamkerngT. It is already 12'o clock time to bed. I am very happy with chatting with you . Thanks for your help. See you tomorrow.

:)

Anonymous

@Balamurugan Rest well!

Damkerng T.

18:35

Thai borrowed a huge set of words from Bali and Sanskrit.

Sleep tight!

Anonymous

Japanese has a subset of words derived from Sanskrit as well.

Damkerng T.

Hah

They are quite far from each other.

Anonymous

Well, Buddhism made its way to Japan

Damkerng T.

Perhaps through Buddhism.

Anonymous

Yes :-)

Damkerng T.

18:36

Ah, I bet you know this story about the monkey king.

Anonymous

You reminded me of the Japanese maka, which is from Sanskrit maha

Damkerng T.

maha = great

Anonymous

Yes, Sun Wukong (孫悟空)

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure about the root of Makha here. Thai Wikipedia transliterates the word to Magha Puja.

Anonymous

I think it's unrelated, but I was reminded of it because it was so close

Anonymous

18:38

So I wondered for a moment

Ice Girl

relieve our thirst with multicolored. means?

Anonymous

@IceGirl Nothing

Ice Girl

why nothing?

Damkerng T.

relieve our thirst = well... (I can't think of simpler words)

Anonymous

We do have a few words in English derived from Sanskrit, though only a few directly

Anonymous

18:40

Like karma, for example

Anonymous

@IceGirl Because with multicolored is nonsense

Damkerng T.

In Thai, it's kam.

Anonymous

On the other hand, relieve our thirst with multicolored, flavored soft drinks has meaning.

Ice Girl

@DamkerngT. i don't ask you

Damkerng T.

Why is that? I just tried to help.

Anonymous

18:42

Here, it's relieve our thirst with [ soft drinks ]. And soft drinks is a noun meaning "non-alcoholic beverages", in particular soda. And here the coordination of adjectives multicolored, flavored modifies that noun.

Charlie

@IceGirl when you are thirsty, you drink stuff that are not natural

Damkerng T.

Was there anything I did that offend you?

Anonymous

But no, relieve our thirst with multicolored is nonsense.

Ice Girl

@DamkerngT. because you are really proud.

Anonymous

History is repeating itself :-)

Damkerng T.

18:43

Hmm... Okay

Charlie

@IceGirl I am here, you can ask me

Ice Girl

@Charlie i just ask Charlie

ok

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. A few days ago Ice Girl told badass that was "proud"

Anonymous

I don't really know what it meant in either case.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Badass, proud?

Why is that?

Anonymous

18:44

Certainly you don't seem overproud to me.

Ice Girl

badass not proud actually

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Thanks

@IceGirl If I did something offend you, then I'm sorry.

I really have no idea.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. We do have that maha in English, too, in Maharaja "great king"

Ice Girl

@DamkerngT. no problem my friend

Damkerng T.

@snailboat We have maharacha too, with the same meaning.

Anonymous

18:48

And everyone is familiar with Mahatma because of Mahatma Gandhi

Ice Girl

@Charlie being aware of it means?

Anonymous

@IceGirl If you'd like to ask properly, you can say: What does "being aware of it" mean?

Charlie

@IceGirl what?

Ice Girl

we associate these foods,often without being aware of it,with the highly pleasurable experiences depicted in the advertisements used to promote their sale.

Charlie

@IceGirl ah, we eat those food because we feel good eating it, even if we know it's not good to our body

Damkerng T.

18:56

2 days ago, by Damkerng T.

But you understand it, right? Try to say it in your own words.

@IceGirl Was it because of this line?

Maybe it's a case of "lost in translation".

I type this first: But you understand it, right?

Then you typed: little

Then I typed: Try to say it in your own words.

Then you typed: ok

And then I waited for, I'm not sure, maybe 5-10 minutes

And you're gone.

I'm thinking that line "Try to say it in your own words." can be easily misinterpreted.

What I meant was "Try to say it in your own words, first" to check your understanding.

Ice Girl

dear, if i know that i didn't ask ok?

Damkerng T.

Ah, so this is it.

Anonymous

@IceGirl Incidentally, calling people dear in these contexts might be inappropriate.

Ice Girl

@Charlie your answers are really helpful for me and it's clearly

@snailboat I'm really sorry

Charlie

@IceGirl good good

Anonymous

19:02

@IceGirl Don't worry. I wasn't offended. You don't need to apologize for anything to me.

Ice Girl

@Charlie people turn from grumpiness to euphoria after crunching a corn chip.

@snailboat but sounds seems censure

Charlie

@IceGirl if people are feeling not very good, they eat those food and feel much better

Anonymous

@IceGirl Well, you weren't calling me dear, so I have no reason to make a judgment one way or the other. I'm just trying to be helpful by giving you an English language tip.

Ice Girl

@snailboat ok. thank you so much

@Charlie Others water ski into the sunset with their loved ones while drinking a popular soft drink.

Anonymous

These are amusing mental images

Charlie

19:10

@IceGirl is "water" right?

Ice Girl

People entertain on the patio with friends, cook over campfires without mosquitoes, or go to carnivals with granddad munching away at the latest candy or snack food.

@Charlie yes

Charlie

@IceGirl ah okay sorry

Ice Girl

can you paraphrase it

np

Charlie

@IceGirl they have fun with water games with people they love, drinking

Ice Girl

Excellent

People entertain on the patio with friends, cook over campfires without mosquitoes, or go to carnivals with granddad munching away at the latest candy or snack food.

Charlie

19:17

@IceGirl people go out, wiith friends, eating those foods

Ice Girl

The people portrayed in these scenarios are all healthy, vigorous, and good looking.

Charlie

@IceGirl the people who do all those stuff you wrote so far are healthy

but if they eat those not good food

they should be fat

Ice Girl

one wonders how popular the food they convince us to eat would be if they would crunch or drink away while complaining about low back pain or clogged sinuses.

Charlie

@IceGirl that food would not be so popular if people who eat it saw the problems it causes in reality

Ice Girl

@Charlie clogged sinuses means?

@Charlie Charlie????????????

@Charlie thank you so much goodbye