English Language Learners

GATA

04:25

:D Mission incomplete

I occasionally use the word "answerer" in my sentences but I am not sure if I can say "answeres" too. Spellchecker marks it as an error though.

skullpatrol

08:16

►

Anonymous

11:06

@GATA Um, answeres would be misspelled, yes.

Anonymous

Did you mean answerers? That's okay.

Anonymous

So is answers

jimsug

Oh wow.

Nevermind, I feel silly now.

Actually, hang on.

ell.stackexchange.com/questions/24441/…

"preposistion"?

Is that... right?

Anonymous

12:00

@jimsug It's sense 11. Stone is part of the medium used (more or less analogous to paint or ink in the link), not strictly describing the quality or method of work being done. Thoreau is using artistic imagery to exhort the beauty of natural rock formations by comparing them favorably against manmade sculptures. — Esoteric Screen Name 43 mins ago

Anonymous

(Just fixing your link so it oneboxes)

Anonymous

Oh, you weren't talking about the comment. The question tags?

Anonymous

You can fix tags that are obviously wrong :-)

Anonymous

I removed the tag.

Awal Garg

12:17

I see I missed a lot of code talks.. :(

Anonymous

Just spend some time reading lolphp: reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/26inbh/…

Anonymous

You'll make up for whatever you missed.

Awal Garg

echo (codemissed)?"Yes":"No" - Yes

@snailboat sure...

haha, lol. everything is fine except what is at the last - "PHP is dumb"... well, its related to computers, it is meant to be :)

(Oh yeah, kids these days like those smart phones!)

@snailboat Have you ever done hacking which is not ethical?

Damkerng T.

12:35

@MaulikV I think I can paraphrase your paraphrase a bit. Hope it helps: The gentle touches are the finest workers in sculpture. — Damkerng T. 50 secs ago

I think I mentioned once that I feel like I understand Thoreau.

Must be because of Buddhism.

Hello, everyone!

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. who is everyone? What do you mean? How can you plainly say that? Can't you see, this is a public chat room. I will not entertain this behaviour.!!!

Damkerng T.

Of course, that includes you too. :)

Hello, @AwalGarg!

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. who is "@"AwalGarg. What do you mean. Look, this is my last warning to you. Try to change yourself.

Damkerng T.

(That's specially for you. What is your time zone, again?)

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. How can you open a bracket and not close it?

politely How dare you, dear Damkerng?

@DamkerngT. You edit things? Why, can't you just stand on what you write? Such a pitty!

Damkerng T.

12:41

@AwalGarg To me, saying "How dare you?" is not quite polite. I beg you to be more polite.

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. if you take a look at this convo - chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/15706593#15706593, you will see why all this... LOL XD

May 24 at 17:44, by hellodear2

Irritating!!

May 24 at 17:44, by hellodear2

Damn irritating!!

May 24 at 17:44, by hellodear2

Pissed off!!

May 24 at 17:46, by hellodear2

Yes, I was damn irritated at that time.

Damkerng T.

Oh, so you wanted him to remember you that way?

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. yep, I did...

Anonymous

Don't troll people.

Awal Garg

May 24 at 17:43, by Awal Garg

@hellodear2 sorry, I was trolling :)

@snailboat hey, why don't you pin it?

Anonymous

12:45

There's no need. I'm talking only to you.

Awal Garg

@snailboat Well, I didn't ban you from talking to other people.

Fantasier

I'm so sleepy z_z

Awal Garg

btw, your original statement can be a bit misleading. It can say - "Don't troll (pause) people". Meaning, it is referencing to people in general.

Or, it can say, "don't troll (other) people"

Anonymous

No, vocatives should be set off by commas.

Fantasier

@AwalGarg That would usually be 'Don't troll, people' in writing.

Anonymous

12:50

@Fantasier What time is it there?

Fantasier

Ha, you're the fastest snail I've ever seen.

Awal Garg

@Fantasier but, I guess, ... lol I was kidding

Fantasier

@snailboat 7:50 PM. I slept a lot last night too, so I have no idea why I'm like this now.

Awal Garg

@snailboat whats that?

@Fantasier is it summer there?

Fantasier

@AwalGarg It's always summer here :P

Awal Garg

12:51

@DamkerngT. why? its GMT + 0530000000..

@Fantasier then, if I were there, I would have been always sleepy :P

Damkerng T.

@AwalGarg Good evening.

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. whats yours?

Damkerng T.

+0700

Anonymous

Vocative is a term used for a function (a phrase used to address someone), which is associated with a distinct case in many languages. English has no vocative case, so we use it only for the function

Awal Garg

@DamkerngT. ok, so Good + (whatever is correct)... :P

@snailboat oh, I thought programming languages have a monopoly of functions...

Damkerng T.

12:53

Yes, my number of typos usually increase when I try to understand other people.

Anonymous

Function is a more general term.

Awal Garg

IKR

Anonymous

it has a specific meaning in the context of grammar

Anonymous

And a specific meaning in the context of math, and more specific in the context of programming, more specific yet in particular programming languages

Awal Garg

32 mins ago, by Awal Garg

@snailboat Have you ever done hacking which is not ethical?

Anonymous

12:54

Have you not yet figured out that I'm not going to answer that question?

Awal Garg

@snailboat it means, you have done. wait, let me call the cyber police force.

Anonymous

If you say something sensible to me, I'll answer.

Awal Garg

Well, that would be a question then :)

Its getting summer here...

Cyber Police Officer: snailboat will go with us to the policeboat.

Cyber Police Officer2: Awal, you did a nice job. You are awarded with the privilege to irritate everyone!

Off I go to irritate people. Bye!!

jimsug

@snailboat Seems like Maulik may have accidentally created/used a misspelt tag, as there's only one other question that had it.

Damkerng T.

Which one is more natural?

Anonymous

13:03

Which what?

Damkerng T.

> We are thankful for the food he has given us.
We are thankful for the food he gave us.

Anonymous

Oh!

Anonymous

Dunno. They're both okay. Is there any context?

Damkerng T.

Nope. They're from an ELL question.

The question asked about "he had given" or "he has given". I somehow prefer "he gave". :D

jimsug

Almost no difference with those two, eh?

Anonymous

13:05

Whether perfect constructions are appropriate is often dependent on context and partially on dialect/idiolect

Fantasier

Idiolect! I like that word :P

jimsug

nods

It's a good word.

Anonymous

It's a good word.

Anonymous

Jinx!

Fantasier

lol

jimsug

13:06

mutes

Anonymous

I used to like idiocracy, until that movie came out and ruined it by redefining it.

Damkerng T.

(Mentally, I did nods and said "It's a good word.")

Oh, movies ruined many words.

In my L1 too.

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. I'm curious which.

Damkerng T.

Fill in the blank: รักสาม ____

Fantasier

เส้า

Damkerng T.

13:08

I expected that from you. :D

But I think you'd agree that many would spell it differently.

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. Did the movie use เศร้า (sad)? That's sad (pun intended!)

GATA

@snailboat Thank you :) I missed that.

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier Yes. I think we have several of such usages in movies and songs.

I mean, they use it fine, but it can mislead young people.

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. I think it was intended to be a play on the homophones, but then people mistook it as the correct spelling.

Anonymous

This question has too many questions in it: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/24404/…

Damkerng T.

13:11

@Fantasier nods

@snailboat nods

GATA

Matryoshka :)

Damkerng T.

jimsug

@snailboat Why'd they migrate it here? All stacks have the too-broad closure reason, right?

Damkerng T.

@GATA They look happy!

Prasad Shrivatsa

hello everyone.. need some help understanding a poem, will someone help?

GATA

13:13

:D

Damkerng T.

@PrasadShrivatsa You can ask away, and see if anyone will help.

Prasad Shrivatsa

OK, I am posting the poem first...

Anonymous

@jimsug Who knows? I'm for closing it

Prasad Shrivatsa

POEM: TO A PAIR OF SARUS CRANES

The male was shot
as he necked
to pull the reluctant sun out
from the rim of horizon

She flew crying
as he was picked up hands and jaws
and a proud neck was humbled
to lie like dirty linen
in a coarse washing bag

She circled the sky
in movements of grace
over his disgraceful end.

The killers went away and she returned
to the death’s scene
with grief that inscribed its intensity
in dots and pits
like the Morse code of bird’s sorrow
transmitted to the air.

With her beak she kissed a few feathers

Anonymous

Mods no longer ask one another before migrating.

Anonymous

13:17

Free verse, eh?

Prasad Shrivatsa

I need help with the last stanza

Anonymous

Well, I'm no poet, so I'll defer to whoever thinks they can help.

Prasad Shrivatsa

"A wave of the seas she had never seen came to her from far away and carried her to him..." What does this suggest? The poet is not talking about the real sea waves.

Anonymous

Poetry is tough stuff.

Anonymous

Oh, it's a Real Poem! I thought you were writing it.

Prasad Shrivatsa

13:18

I agree

Anonymous

But I still defer to everyone else.

Prasad Shrivatsa

OK, whoever can, please see.

Anonymous

Who wrote it, by the way?

Prasad Shrivatsa

The poet is Manmohan Singh, not the former Indian Primer Minister though :D

and this poem is not available anywhere online, I checked

Damkerng T.

It sounds like she drowned.

Prasad Shrivatsa

13:21

But if you see, the poet is not really referring to the sea waves.. at least that's what it made me think

Is it possible that he is referring to some kind of shock the female bird was in and died because of it?

Damkerng T.

I think "carried her to him" made me thought of that.

Anonymous

By the way, you may want to follow the Poetry proposal on Area 51

Prasad Shrivatsa

i have been following it already

Anonymous

Yay!

Damkerng T.

Nice!

Anonymous

13:23

Oh, I see your name there now

Prasad Shrivatsa

Yes

Damkerng T.

@PrasadShrivatsa I agree. That's possible too.

Prasad Shrivatsa

The thing is I need to discuss this poem with children and I want to be sure that I understand it correctly myself

Anonymous

Oh! Are you a teacher?

Prasad Shrivatsa

Yes

Damkerng T.

13:24

I think poems are open to interpretation, generally.

Prasad Shrivatsa

That's true

Anonymous

Maybe you can make them figure out what it's about without giving them a specific interpretation :-)

Prasad Shrivatsa

Haha, nice suggestion. But I would like to have some understanding for myself first.

Anonymous

Okay, I forced the whole poem through my brain. (I'm poetry-challenged.)

Anonymous

Sounds like she joined him in death.

Damkerng T.

13:30

Poor toddling chick.

Prasad Shrivatsa

Yes, she did. What do you think the 'wave of the seas' suggest though? Not real wave of the seas, right? Sarus Cranes do not live near sea shore anyway.

Anonymous

The seas are somehow a metaphor for death, separating this world from the next. She had never seen them before (cf. Hamlet's undiscovered country), and in dying she was taken across those seas

Nico

To me, it's describing the feeling that overcomes someone that has recently lost a loved one.

Anonymous

I dunno. :-)

Damkerng T.

nods -- I reread it and I think it's a strong emotion or feeling.

Nico

13:36

I would compare being overwhelmed by a feeling with what happens when a wave sweeps you.

Prasad Shrivatsa

@snailboat That's an interesting point of view and quite a valid one in this context. It would be great to explain too. So thanks a lot!

Anonymous

See? Everyone's got a different interpretation :-)

Nico

Only the writer knows what they meant (as usually happens in poetry). :)

Fantasier

This reminds me of that Japanese river thingy related to death. (If I remember that right...)

That's quite different though, I think.

Anonymous

To me, the two big hints that it's a metaphor for death are that she was carried to him (but he's dead!) and that she goes "beyond Hume's words"

Anonymous

13:38

三途の川?

Fantasier

Yeah, I think that's it.

Prasad Shrivatsa

The seas as a metaphor for death must be what the poet meant, I think. And the 'wave of the seas' is something like the call of death.

Anonymous

I felt like the wave was death itself, carrying her across the seas between this life and the next

Nico

@snailboat Do you know what it was meant by "beyond Hume's words"?

Fantasier

@PrasadShrivatsa Or you could combine the 'overwhelming feeling' interpretation and this one, so you get: she was so sad that she died. The feeling took her away from life and such.

Anonymous

13:41

@Nico econlib.org/library/LFBooks/Hume/hmMPL49.html

Nico

thx

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier That is what I thought.

Of all stanzas, I think this one is the most difficult for me:

> With her beak she kissed a few feathers
picked the ones that wind had not taken away
and sat to hatch
the blood stained feathers into a toddling chick

jimsug

What's the correct procedure if you've asked a question in the past and it hasn't attracted enough attention... re-ask?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I thought it meant: although both birds died, they managed to bring a child into the world, one life ending as another begins

Anonymous

@jimsug Bounty?

Prasad Shrivatsa

13:45

Here are Hume's words: "They certainly pair for life. And probably exhibit great grief for their male, keeping for weeks at times about the locality where their partner was killed and calling constantly. I have actually known the widowed bird to pine away and die." (Taken from "The Game Birds of India, Burma and Ceylon" - 1981

Damkerng T.

That's a sensible interpretation. I somehow feel this "sat to hatch
the blood stained feathers into a toddling chick" a little strange.

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. Me too

Anonymous

@PrasadShrivatsa Oh! I assumed it was about his writings about the afterlife

Anonymous

Shows what I know :-)

Anonymous

Poems should have footnotes.

Prasad Shrivatsa

13:47

Talking about that line - "sat to hatch the bloodstained feathers into a toddling chick", I thought it refers to her desperation to bring him back to life, and she tries to sit on his feathers the way she sits on her eggs and sees life sprout out of them?

@snailboat You are not at all 'poetry-challenged', you have a good vision

Damkerng T.

The only way I can make sense of it is to think of "a toddling chick" as a metaphor of something, but a metaphor of what?

Prasad Shrivatsa

Yeah, good question

Damkerng T.

I usually read poems literally. :)

Prasad Shrivatsa

his rebirth, maybe?

Damkerng T.

I think that's an open question. Maybe we can find more hints in other poems of his.

(Come to think of it, I think I have no reason to be sure that the poet is a "him".)

Prasad Shrivatsa

13:53

It is 'him'

His name is Manmohan Singh (not the former Prime Minister of India though)

Damkerng T.

Ah, you said that before. Perhaps, that's why I thought of him as a 'him'. :D

Prasad Shrivatsa

Haha, yes.

Thank you everyone. I really needed help and I found it. Your interpretations were meaningful and enlightening, honestly. So thanks again.

Anonymous

Hooray!

Nico

@PrasadShrivatsa I understood this literally. She is in despair and acting irrationally. She is treating his feathers as if they were stlll him.

Damkerng T.

@Nico Oh, that makes perfect sense!

Prasad Shrivatsa

13:56

Ah, yes, Nico. That's interesting. 'Acting irrationally', yes.

You people are amazing. We really should have a poetry analysis site on SE.

Hope that comes to beta soon

Anonymous

I followed the proposal

Anonymous

I might talk about Japanese poetry there :-)

Prasad Shrivatsa

Why not? I would be interested in Japanese poetry if you promise to explain it :)

And by the way, it's personification in "A wave of the seas she had never seen
came to her from far away and carried her to him." Am I correct?

Damkerng T.

14:11

I think others can answer this better than I can; but to me, the "wave" metaphor is not human yet. (Though you can read it that way, too, I think.)

Anonymous

Well, I wrote an answer. I'm done for the day :-)

Prasad Shrivatsa

Haha. OK. And thanks.

And like @DamkerngT. said, 'the wave metaphor is not human' and I think that makes sense.

Damkerng T.

14:58

1

A: Difference between "Sign up", "Sign in" and "Log in"

While Hellion describes those terms in general, I am writing here in the context of the cyberworld that also includes the gadgets. You mentioned log-in and that's what makes me think that you probably want to know the difference in the context of Internet. Well, sign up simply means to register...

I think the subtle difference in the answer is a misleading difference. I haven't thought log files would have anything to do with the usage of "log in". But maybe I might mislead myself though all these years.

Damkerng T.

15:20

0

Q: Require, request and requisition

According to their dictionary definitions the principal meaning (as verbs) would be to ask, to demand. To requisition is a little bit more complicated (may take an infinitive) which is why I think, it is more likely to be used as a noun next to “make” i.e. “to make a requisition”. As for the ve...

I think this question still doesn't have a good answer yet.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. They don't.

Anonymous

And sign in and log in are more or less equivalent

Anonymous

However, the derived noun login has no parallel *signin

Damkerng T.

15:37

I think we seem to also have logon too. (Not very sure. But it seems like a Microsoft's usage.)

0

Q: Is this usage of it correct?

I found this sentence. "We rolled on toward the island, insurmountable by the inclement weather." BY JERRY M KEENE Is this "insurmountable by" correct here?

grammar

I couldn't find the sentence on the web, and I couldn't find who "Jerry M. Keene" is.

Maybe the guy who wrote this: "Jerry Keene's gold prospector's digest: A fantastic collection of articles that reveal how, where, and what equipment to use for gold panning, sluices ... the U.S., recovering fine gold, hookah diving"

Anonymous

0

A: Difference between "Sign up", "Sign in" and "Log in"

Sign up means "to register; to create an account". In computing, sign in and log in are synonyms. Both mean "to open a session with an account that is already created". There is one difference: the derived noun login "a username; a session under that username" exists, but there is no such noun...

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Log on and logon exist, yeah.

Damkerng T.

2

Q: A pair of jeans vs tight jeans or blue jeans (without a pair) etc

When can we use jeans without a pair in English? I read in a novel, "she had on tight jeans with a pair of pink heels." Was it perfectly use? Or the writer (she is an american writer) should have used, "she had on a pair of tight jeans with a pair of pink heels."

grammar grammaticality american-english british-english

Interesting. I don't expect people to say they're wearing a pair of pants or trousers.

Another good question, though it wasn't phrased well as a question for SE.

0

Q: Use of Has been with verb and adjective

Correct me if i am wrong Sales have been pretty good by you. Match has been cancelled today by organizer (Meaning: describing a situation that started at some time in the past and is still continuing now. it gives idea that cancelation of match and sales is done by agent) Sal...

grammar

> Sales have been pretty good by you.
Match has been cancelled today by organizer.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What are you quoting?

Damkerng T.

I would revise them to "Sales have been pretty good because of you." and "The match has been cancelled today by the organizer."

The question above contains four sentences in questioned.

> Sales have been pretty good now a days.
Match has been cancelled today.

Anonymous

15:50

@DamkerngT. Nowadays is one word nowadays.

Damkerng T.

Similarly, I would revise them to "Sales are pretty good nowadays." and "The match has been cancelled today."

It's strange that I felt weird when I tried to say "Sales have been pretty good by you." Maybe I think it's unlikely.

But changing it to because of you seems to make more sense.

(Still can't explain why.)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What is by you supposed to be doing?

Damkerng T.

I don't know, 'cause I didn't write it, but I think it suggests that that you did something that helps the sales grow.

Anonymous

It reminds me of informal phrasings like "Is he doing good by you?"

Damkerng T.

Ahh

You is not the direct "actor" here.

Anonymous

15:57

I have no idea. I can't parse the sentence you gave me :-)

Damkerng T.

But the because of you version is fine, right? -- I hope

Anonymous

My best guess was that it was supposed to be a (somewhat awkward) complement of sales: "Sales by you have been pretty good"

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yes, this because of you version seems fine to me

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. And yes, inserting the missing articles makes this sentence better.

Transcript for