The h Bar

123

04:07

Hello Everyone...

ACuriousMind

08:27

@AccidentalFourierTransform looks fine as a dupe closure to me, but note that the dupe target was also posted by the same user. I left a comment that they should edit their initial question instead of posting new versions separately

peterh

10:14

After same decader of work in various high buildings with a lot of glass... and thinking on that, how much better would it be to think about physics problems... I got an idea

Suddenly I understood the background team mechanics of the project which created the Universe.

The first which looks very realistic, that is that gravity was not part of the direct development. It was some background or external constraint, probably it was created by a team by the customer or it was a sub-project inherited by him.

The second very logical thing is that the strong interaction and the electroweak interaction were created parallel, by different teams, and the original plan was that only one of them becomes prod (i.e. only one of them will be used to build up the Universe)

But somehow, probably in background company politics, both teams managed to become released. On this way, some very complex thing was needed to integrate both of their products.

The team behind the strong interaction was probably more like an artist brigade, I see a higher chance that they were external workers where productivity was very important. They built from simple things a crystal clear castle - what only they understand well. Contrary, the electroweak guys developed their thing by integrating and rigorously fulfilling everything what they had, maybe even some notes created by a team lead meeting.

This is why the strong interaction is very beautiful but lesser usable, while the electroweak does everything but it is a big mess.

Simple company mechanics.

(back to work)

Ryder Rude

10:52

i would say strong interaction is a bigger mess than electroweak becuz of confinement

peterh

11:39

Yes but that is only consequence and not the thing itself is complex

In EW, already the thing is complex. We start with 4 bosons, 3 of them are actually the same and one is unrelated to all, then higgs makes W,Z and photon from them. It is much more complex like just having quarks and gluons without any higgs. If my task would be to construct a universe, I think the strong team was better in design and the EW team was better to integrate into a big corporate crap

It is probably better to work together with the strong guys, but only the EW guys can produce a believable illusion of a stable job.

Maybe it would be useful to reach also the gravity guys on some half-official channels

Ryder Rude

12:10

what do u think about spacetime? how can people invent spacetime

i think spacetime is like the sheet on which these engineers were working and gravity is like the side effect of putting stuff on top of that sheet.

since everything causes spacetime to deform

@peterh universe wud b very boring without electromagnetism tho. it is a strong long range force. the strong force can only form nuclei but u need electromagnetism to form atoms, and by extension for stars, chemical reactions and life

peterh

electromagnetic interaction is part of the electroweak

Ryder Rude

yes. im saying EM is very important for the beautiful stuff in the universe

@user223626865 it is compelling to think that logic truths are valid independent of the universe

user223626865

But then the word "truth" comes into question.

Ryder Rude

yes. i personally dont believe logic or truth has any meaning without this universe

this stuff doesnt hav its own universe

the universe exists. and logic and mathematics are all derived from it

@peterh What do u think could be the aim of this project? most of the universe just seems like trash

peterh

then we are trying to integrate to it back

Ryder Rude

12:23

why did they want to build this stuff

peterh

@RyderRude I think we can well approximate the project goal with its results. This is a well working methodology to understand the goals of our co-workers in a chaotic situation as well.

Ryder Rude

they managed to build stars. did they need stars

idk. most of the universe just seems like random trash. it doesnt seem fine tuned

@peterh how could these people invented time if they themselves werent living inside time

peterh

Yes it is finetuned. For example, deuteron exists but it is highly unstable - having a little bit stronger or weaker strong force, either deuteron would not exist, or is would be very stable. --> either stars would not exist, or they would exist only for milliseconds

Ryder Rude

i think atoms and stars are huge achievements for these people. becuz the universe started without atoms and stars @peterh

peterh

It depends on 0.1% of setting in the strength of the strong and EM. there are a lot of siimlars.

Ryder Rude

12:28

they just programmed the fundamental laws and manages to get beautiful atoms out of it

this is some impressive achievement

@peterh oh

Ryder Rude

13:01

Wolfram says he can reproduce laws of physics using simple instructions to cellular automata

what r the chances he is right

it would be very boring if the universe is an iterative game with simple instructions

idk how wolfram can even get quantum non-realism and measurement problem out of that

at best, he can get the schrodinger equation. measurements r truly random

peterh

@RyderRude Pratically zero, IMHO. The universe of the cellular automatas are digital, pixel-like, resulting that the laws are different in the axial and the diagonal directions

It does not matter, how small are the "pixels", if you have a pixel-world, you have different laws diagonally as axially. Now all known physical laws are isotropic, i.e. they are exactly the same in all the directions.

@RyderRude There is also a point which is a very clear top level management failure. That is the triple-alpha process

I think, the original plan was that Beryllium-8 should be stable and the next step in the fusion after He-4 will be Be-8. That Be-8 is unstable, and not a little bit but very, very unstable. It decays with strong force with a half life in order of about 10^-20 s.

That Be-8 was unstable, it was probably an unintended side effect of that both teams, both the electroweak and the strong teams, tried to work as if the other would not exist.

Ryder Rude

@peterh also, cellular automata have an absolute Newtonian time for their evolution. they are an incredibly ugly structure to get general relativity out of where there isn't even be a time-like slicing of the universe

computer scientists just want to turn physics into their own boring stuff. it is not welcome

peterh

So, both of them considered the work of the other, because that was their project task, but only superficially. So, that Be-8 is unstable, that became a serious bug, similar to the SPECTRE bug in the newer CPUs, which had been too hard to retroactively fix.

But the triple-alpha process required only a little bit of tuning of the work of both teams, beside that both teams had to work on a fix, thus neither of them had to admit responsibility.

The fault of the top level management was that if you have two, so strongly contradicting teams, then you need a stronger compatibility control of both. It might have been the task of the gravity guys, but they were too old employee of the company for these newbie things like atomic-level interaction. Theur field was the on the galactic size, even the stellar size were too small for them.

Probably the guy, inventing the triple alpha and thus saving the project, became enough important in the eyes of the top management to get a contact to the gravity team, and be taken there seriously.

@RyderRude Also I am an IT guy and I think enforcing discrete thing to physics would be a hard-minded, stupid thing. Funny that these pixel-world ideas appeared only with the computers, previous generations felt themselves very well with the analogue physics world.

Ryder Rude

13:20

@peterh this thought process can also be applied to the simulation-hypothesis as a whole. i think we started talking about the simulation hypothesis because of video games

peterh

13:33

I had yet another synapse. That is not about the Universe. It is about my daughter. She was a 3 week old phoetus as we detected she on the ultrasound. My wife was evil, abortionist and hysterical. And she has stopped eating. With 4 week, the doc did not see a working hearth and with 5 weeks, he did not a see a phoetus any more. Then my wife started to eat again. I prayed a lot, before, while and after the events.

Two years later, I have met with a little girl in an indoor playground, while I was with my son there. She behaved as if she would know me, came to me and wanted me to raise her. And I did. She had no weight... and I have never seen this little girl any more

Ryder Rude

@peterh what did u tell her when she told u she wanted u to raise her?

peterh

@RyderRude Nothing, in this age children can not talk very well, not even the girls. But they can show with body language very clearly, if they want to be raised

roughly 1 yr old small child does this to unknown adults only very, very rarely.

Ryder Rude

oh

also maybe u r looking too much into this situation because u lost ur unborn daughter

peterh

yes. Maybe

Ryder Rude

13:49

we get emotional. we start looking for signs that arent there

peterh

Yes like 1 yr old little girls

ACuriousMind

15:16

@Slereah are you playing BG3?

Slereah

Not so far

Still haven't finished BG1

ACuriousMind

lol

Slereah

I may tho

I heqr good things

ACuriousMind

so far (around halfway through) there isn't much connection to the first two parts, I've met exactly one recurring character

Daniel Underwood

15:36

I never played the others and don't feel like I'm missing anything in BG3 so far

Ryder Rude

this game looks gr8

Slereah

Bit of a loose way to play a game

Playing a game without playing all 40 years of previous games of it smh

I bet you're playing DOOM without having played Commander Keen first

ACuriousMind

yeah, this is much more a sequel "in spirit" than a direct sequel

Slereah

ACuriousMind

honestly the game this reminds me most of is the first Dragon Age (though that's not far off since both BG and DA are Bioware titles)

Slereah

15:46

Can we ban @RyderRude so we don't have to hear dumbass questions like that every day

Ryder Rude

@Slereah i wouldve loved this game

i will delete it

i do think that the dragon lore was inspired by dinosaurs

ACuriousMind

@Slereah I am friends with people who love Commander Keen but I haven't played it; does that count :P

then again, I haven't played DOOM either, so it probably doesn't matter

Slereah

He is technically the dad of the DOOM guy

Because ID game had that weird overarching universe where everyone was related

Commander Keen is the grandson of Wolfenstein's Blascowicz and the DOOM guy the son of Keen

Daniel Underwood

I had the other BG games on my list, but I tried playing pillars of eternity and realized that the whole "party-based real-time with pause" combat system isn't for me. I definitely prefer either single player real-time or party turn-based

Ryder Rude

this looks like a spaceship game

Slereah

15:50

although unlike the rest of his family, Keen's battles were mostly in his imagination

I am a big fan of such systems but Baldur's Gate is kind of a boring generic RPG

It was pretty impressive for the era but that did not extend to the story being that good

Tried playing it a few time but I just fall asleep

ACuriousMind

BG1 is pretty boring if you have no nostagia for it, true

I would suggest the second part still mostly holds up, though

Ryder Rude

commander keen is a platformer actually

Slereah

It's a medium best left to immortal beings and alcoholic cops

ACuriousMind

@DanielUnderwood I didn't really like PoE's combat either. Everything felt so...weightless to me. I think in trying to balance everything they balanced the fun out of the system :P

Ryder Rude

BG1 is from 1998

Slereah

15:54

I don't care that much about combat systems tbh

As long as I can get through them without a hassle

which isn't the case that often unfortunately

Ryder Rude

i too prefer easy combat like in Assassin's creed

ACuriousMind

@Slereah technically BG1+2's story is about immortal beings :P

Slereah

@ACuriousMind So is store.steampowered.com/app/1142230/The_Secrets_of_Jesus

But I wouldn't claim it be great

ACuriousMind

hey, you said the medium is best left to immortal beings, not me!

Slereah

Also I don't think in BG you are the immortal being

Although maybe, since I never finished it

But I died a lot in there, so probably not

ACuriousMind

15:58

@Slereah well, it's complicated, but the answer is not that you aren't

Ryder Rude

God of war is another immortal being game

Daniel Underwood

@ACuriousMind ah so maybe it was that particular implementation that I didn't like and not that type of system in general. I also have the Pathfinder games in my library since they looked so good, but have avoided them since they appeared to have similar combat

ACuriousMind

@DanielUnderwood both pathfinder titles have fully functional turn-based combat now, they patched that into the first one

unfortunately they seem to have been developed with RTwP primarily in mind, so playing them in turn-based mode takes ages since turn-based combat is much slower

Slereah

You can also attempt such games in South America of course

Magic works a whole lot better when you have the Gun spell

Ryder Rude

do you people play assassins creed

Daniel Underwood

16:00

Interesting, into the queue they go...right after BG3 and DoS 2

ACuriousMind

now DoS I really wanted to like but I think Larian's particular brand of humor/storytelling in those games doesn't really click with me. I'm happy BG3 doesn't have the same tone so far

Ryder Rude

how many hours do you play video games in a day/night?

Slereah

currently I am mostly waiting for more dinosaurs

store.steampowered.com/app/1814690/Zid_Journey

Daniel Underwood

16:14

Yeah I never really got into the story of DoS, but really liked it for the combat and character building (minus it being an inventory management simulator every time I went to play)

Ryder Rude

there have been many mass extinction events for the life on earth. the most recent one is human-caused : en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

the dinosaur extinction is listed in the fourth point. it is not the biggest mass extinction

Slereah

18:48

"I think it necessary to mention that my assistant, Mr. David Kinnebrook, began from the beginning of August last, to set them [the transits] down half a second of time later than he should do, according to my observations: in January of the succeeding year, 1796, he increased his error to 8/10 of a second.
As he had unfortunately continued a considerable time in this error before I noticed it, and did not seem to me likely ever to get over it, and return to a right method of observing, therefore, though with great reluctance, I parted with him."

Tough boss

Slereah

19:02

"In measuring an accurate one-second pendulum, for example, the Italian astronomer Father Giovanni Battista Riccioli persuaded nine fellow Jesuits "to count nearly 87,000 oscillations in a single day"."

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