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00:00
@ACuriousMind Course not. There's no way to know.
DZ suggested that I make a meta post expressing my opinion that this whole issue has gone off the rails. I declined to do that because I didn't find a way to do that with a positive tone. Perhaps I should revisit that suggestion.
What do you think?
@DanielSank Hm. Well, I do think that you should express it somewhere on meta that you think those posts are misguided. But...making a meta post that meta posts that are partly inspired by other meta posts are maybe missing the point of the original meta post...well, let me just say I don't think most readers have the patience to actually untangle that sequence of events :P
@ACuriousMind Yes, this is problematic.
Maybe I'll go invent a time machine to sort this all out.
One more thing, @ACuriousMind, note the upvotes on that meta post.
@DanielSank Yes, I did. What you wrote there is the closest to a consensus opinion I've ever seen on any meta post relating to this accursed policy.
Among all the homework related meta posts, that one was the most agreed upon by the community. So, one could take the attitude that whether or not you think the proposal is good/perfect/etc., the community does.
I'm not saying that my proposal there should be implemented verbatim.
I invite further discussion.
Just pointing out what I think are some relevant points.
@heather @0celo7 askas "What does "Please wait for your account to be approved or add more information" means
00:13
@BernardMeurer What are you, @0celo7's tongue now?
@DanielSank Banned for 90 days
He's helping me with Analysis through text messages (no mathjax) and it's horrible lol
@BernardMeurer Use math.se?
@DanielSank He's banned from there too
@BernardMeurer What they... did he kidnap the queen's dog?
Drink her latte?
Insult the Duke of Chutney's golf stroke?
@DanielSank Nope, apparently he;s been behaving badly and has been banned for 90days from all SE chats
00:20
Drive Obama's favorite car?
@DanielSank Afaik he asked for clarification on why he got banned but hasn't heard back
Tsk! I told him not to drive Obama's car!
@BernardMeurer, we've had some, well, unfortunate situations where a user spammed the site across multiple accounts, and so we've been going through and manually approving new accounts (for the moment). I've approved his account in the moderator queue, so he should be good. =)
I'm assuming you're talking about the Physics Problems Q&A site.
@DanielSank Lol, what is Obama's favourite car really?
@heather That site is actually up?
Where's it hosted? Where's the code?
Where's the database stored?
00:27
@DanielSank They're not Open Source :(
@BernardMeurer Oh it's some kind of SE knockoff hosting service?
@DanielSank, up, but not completed. It's still in progress. The current url is here
@DanielSank Think so
I wonder how does this not constitute copyright infringement
@BernardMeurer, @DanielSank, Mew wrote the code himself, he says. I asked him but he would not give access to the code to other users. He said he was going to post it for me to look at, but he's been busy and that hasn't happened yet.
As far as I know, Mew is privately hosting it.
@heather I'm fairly certain he just built on a template
00:31
@BernardMeurer The site is using a version of the open source question2answer codebase. Of course I can't tell what adjustments have been made to it.
@ACuriousMind There we go, so it is built on a "template" or framework or whatever :P
@BernardMeurer Well probably nobody cares.
@ACuriousMind Thanks :)
@BernardMeurer Yeah.
It is rather unfortunate that I don't know a lot of this stuff.
00:33
Oh god it's PHP.
Welp, never using that site.
:(
@DanielSank, what's wrong with PHP?
and how does what it is coded in automatically prevent you from using the site?
@DanielSank Jesus lord, PHP?
@heather It's the worst programming language ever, except maybe JS.
@heather It's basically the ass cancer of the internet
@heather Because I know that it won't be maintained.
Nobody wants to work on a PHP project.
00:34
NOBODY
If Mew loses interest, bam, dead site.
Er...wait, wait. I know some JS and it isn't that bad. Why is PHP so terrible?
Actually, mew keeping the code to himself is a much bigger problem IMHO.
@heather You know what's the happiest day in the life of a PHP programmer?
@BernardMeurer, (::waits for sarcastic joke::) what?
00:35
@heather If PHP is the ass cancer, JS is the lung cancer
@heather The day he dies
@heather, darling, please watch this informative video and then re-evaluate your opinion of js.
That talk is awesome
It's so funny, and so right.
@DanielSank Indeed
JS is screwed up
Dude
@BernardMeurer It doesn't even have a notion of modules :( :( :(
00:41
huh, that's weird
but still! it isn't terrible, it is just...peculiar =P
Remember how Linux reacted over a guy misinterpreting the meaning of an ENOENT signal on a pulseaudio crash?
so, okay, JS is weird
but PHP?! How's that bad?
Can you imagine what he would do if
Jesus @Shog9 is here
yes, no comma intended
Continuing, can you imagine what Linus would do seeing a misuse of NaN like that?
I heard someone talking crap about JavaScript
4
00:42
@BernardMeurer He'd explode.
@Shog9 Is that a problem?
@heather It has the same kinds of problems that JS has.
@BernardMeurer Relax, he's probably not an insane egotist.
@Shog9 Sorry man, that's not what NaN is supposed to mean
sorry, but I don't see what the problem here is, except to be careful using JS/PHP
@heather It's not just weird, it's a terrible language.
Which, unfortunately, runs the internet.
eh; the video is funny, but it - like countless amusing questions on Stack Overflow - boil down to "fun with implicit type conversion"
00:43
@heather That's exactly the problem. You have to be careful.
Humans are not good at being careful.
@heather We need to re-start the internet from scratch, using only x86 assembly, trust me
x86 assembly. I don't know much about programming, but I know enough to know that that sounds like a bad idea.
Bernardo, that's funny, but for papa's love please don't confuse the newbies.
@heather Smart lady we have here.
Writing in assembly is bad for much the same reason that writing js is bad.
No type safety.
isn't assembly practically the definition of a pain?
it's just tedious
00:45
@heather Um, well, it serves a purpose.
Assembly is useful when you need to tell the CPU exactly what to do.
@heather Okay, I was lying
We have to do it in 68K assembly
Usually, you only need this if you're writing super highly performance code, or maybe hardware drivers.
@Shog9 Come on, that is one hell of an assembly language
@BernardMeurer 68K assembly? Also sounds like a bad idea.
The problem, of course, is that because you're writing in terms of moving bytes around, your code has no data structures (i.e. types) to help you get things right.
00:46
@DanielSank I wrote all my drivers in C
x86? It's not that bad. Unless you need to access more than 64K at a time.
You can accidentally just write random data to random memory locations.
that sounds bad...
Well, it is! Not much code is written in assembly!
@heather If it has assembly in it's name, it's probably not a good idea
@heather Until it is the only (and best) idea
00:47
C is one level up, where you get some type safety, and the notion of a call stack.
@Shog9 x86 assembly is not nice :(
Then you get things like C++ where you get classes.
Then there's Java which is a lot like C++ except that it runs in a virtual machine.
I know a bit of C, but I'm not sure what a call stack is.
@Shog9 I had a hard time with it writing my first kernel
Now I'm on my way to finish implementing libc, so it will all be fine
@heather It means that when you call a function, all of the variables you have get saved for later, then the function runs, the value is returned, and then your original variables are restored and you go on your merry way.
00:48
Hmm, interesting
Like putting the variables in a book, and then not looking at it until the function is over.
yeah, kinda. Ever have one of those "Choose Your Own Adventure" books, where you'd come to a decision and put a finger in between the pages before paging to your choice?
@heather More or less!
@DanielSank, that makes sense. Why is that useful?
@Heather, the important thing about stacks is that when a function call is finished, all of the variables created by that function are dropped, and therefore all of the memory used by that function is freed.
@heather Because with that you can manage memory way better
00:51
^ That
@heather Suppose you have to call a function 1000 times
but you were drunk when you coded it
and it was 3 am
(true story)
^ Common stituation
so you got a memory leak in it
(For Bernardo)
@BernardMeurer Does Heather know what a memory leak is?
@DanielSank, not really
00:52
it means once the function ends not all of it's allocated memory is being freed
Let's show an example:
(basically, in this case, it;s more than that)
leaked_memory = []

def leaky_sum(x, y):
    leaked_memory.append('a')
    return x + y
Every time this function runs, it returns what it's supposed to, but it also leaves a byte in leaked_memory.
If you run this a billion times, you get a billion entries in leaked_memory and eventually your program runs out of memory.
what is 'a'?
@heather Do you see why that's leaking memory? It's using the memory space contained by leaked_memory, but not freeing it after it's done it's deal
@heather the character a
00:54
@heather A string with one character in it :)
Oh, sorry, thought it was a variable for a minute =P
@DanielSank I think in C :P
wait, but why is that a problem? what does it mean to "free" memory?
@heather Now imagine if you're running some mission-critical part of an operating system
@BernardMeurer dude slow down
@heather Well, let's do another example:
00:55
@DanielSank I finished typing that before I read her question :P
def sum_three(x, y, z):
    temp = x + y
    total = temp + z
    return total
That function makes two intermediate variables, temp and total.
However, every time you run this function, when it's done, the memory space used by those variables is released, meaning that other programs/code/operations/whatever can use that memory.
You can run this function a bazillion times, but it will never cause your memory to run out.
In a language like C, temp and total are called "stack variables".
@heather He means actual, physical memory. When you create a variable, a set of bytes on your RAM stick which have an address assigned to them get's allocated to hold that variable. Freeing (the opposite of allocating) means making those addresses as "Anyone can use this now"
Yes, and the operating system is the thing doing the allocation.
Your program asks the OS for memory to use do to its work and the OS does so.
This is making more sense. But another question: wouldn't returning the answer use up memory?
When the program is finished with memory, it tells the OS "I'm done with this, someone else can use it".
@heather Oh, well, suppose we do this:
for i in range(1000):
    x = sum_three(1, 2, 3)
That obviously doesn't run out of memory.
If we stored every result of calling sum_three, then yeah, that would use up memory.
00:59
@heather It's like if your house has 5 bathrooms. A memory leak is when all your 5 children have to use it at the same time but you also need to do some meditation.
However, that's not a memory leak if we were trying to hold onto the results.
A leak is when you're using up memory by accident.
@heather it could be fixed by making your children free the bathrooms once their done instead of sitting around playing mario

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