The h Bar

Harsh Sharma

16:01

Hey can anybody help me on that? Its a previous Russian olympiad problem and I am not being to able to crack it effective...

ACuriousMind

Hmmm, I don't see @DavidZ around. Anyway, it's chat session time! Following the schedule from the last few times, the first thing would be to welcome newcomers and take questions about the site.

Anyone new here (and will to out themselves :P)?

OhAuth

Could someone give me a quick example of common proton capture, I have 7Li(p,n)7Be and 13N(p,\gamma)14O but I need one more.

I'm new I guess :D

John Rennie

Does anyone know how I get a line break in quoted text? If I do:
>line 1
>line 2
this just concatenates the lines.

user116211

@OhAuth Please be relevant to the session.

ACuriousMind

@JohnRennie Use <br>

John Rennie

16:03

@ACuriousMind Doh! Of course, never overlook the obvious. Thanks :-)

ACuriousMind

And there goes the schedule, I guess :D

OhAuth

@MAFIA36790 So this is just for questions about the site?

user116211

@OhAuth no; no; you can ask but later at the 'open' discussion :)

ACuriousMind

@OhAuth Well, you appeared here right for the biweekly chat session, which usually was a bit more structured than the usual chatting the last few times

The Dark Side

Hello guys.

ACuriousMind

16:08

But the last few times participation was a bit higher and DavidZ had prepared a schedule in advance, so I guess it's free-for-all now :P

user116211

Well, let a single one host in absence of @DavidZ; @JohnRennie?

ACuriousMind

@TheDarkSide Hey there, guy-named-after-the-first-part-of-a-Pink-Floyd-album-title

The Dark Side

:: Looks around :: Who? :P

Slereah

Hey hey

user116211

Hullo!

ACuriousMind

16:10

Today's youth ::sighs and shakes head::

The Dark Side

Haha.

John Rennie

@MAFIA36790 sorry, I got distracted. I've managed to answer a book id question on the SciFi SE that has been bugging me for days. Somehow the key memory just crept out of the dingy cellar I laughingly refer to as my memory :-)

The Dark Side

Dingy cellar !

vzn

@ACuriousMind "free for all"? the horrors! o_O

user116211

Okay, since DavidZ is absent, we can go to 'open' discussion, right ;P

Slereah

16:13

@yuggib So basically anything about path integrals?

user116211

session turning to normal chat

user116211

\o/

ACuriousMind

@vzn Well, I thought the schedules were a good idea since unstructured chatting is what usually occurs here also without a chat session :P

vzn

@ACuriousMind think DZ is very brave attempting to find/ promote some "structure" in chat... kind of a "paradigm shift" :)

ACuriousMind

I mean, these session hark from a time when chat was basically dead otherwise; it's different now and trying to change the chat sessions into something different from normal chat isn't such a bad idea

user116211

16:16

@vzn: Did the ad get upvote?

Slereah

I say for this session, we should all say what we were doing on 9/11

Except @0celo7 because he was probably pooping his pants back then

user116211

:D

vzn

@MAFIA36790 it cleared 6 briefly & ran but is now around ~5. everyone plz +1 it / thx

David Z

Hey all, sorry to be absent but I had some trouble with my travel and I can't participate today. (except just to check in now to let you know that)

ACuriousMind

@JohnRennie I see your answer/rep ratio is "better" on SciFi than here. Is getting many upvotes on SciFi easier? ;)

user116211

16:18

@DavidZ howdy!

The Dark Side

Hello @dmckee. Since you are here, I might just ask you why you are so smitten by the Zemansky, Dittman quote in your About Me part. (Of course, that's true but what's so great about that?) Just asking!

user116211

@vzn okay; now the link being corrected; why isn't it getting upvotes?

vzn

@MAFIA36790 said this earlier. downvoters do not nec express their reasons, ofc some are known. all we can do is speculate. would rather not overthink it at moment, just want to get 6 & stay there... :) ... lack of fully coherent/ aligned teamwork is certainly not helping "us" :(

dmckee

@TheDarkSide I just like the way it's framed. We encounter new definitions of temperature several times as we more through our education and each one gives new ways of understanding the world. I think that line encompasses that experience in a witty way.

The Dark Side

@dmckee OK. That's true, though I'm not too sure about the "witty" bit.

John Rennie

16:23

@ACuriousMind I generally only answer story ID questions on the SFSE - I find I have little interest in discussing detailed interpretations of Tolkien :-) The story ID questions tend to attract a lot of upvotes.

user116211

@JohnRennie: Do you watch movies?

John Rennie

The trouble (calling it trouble is perhaps excessive) with the Physics SE is that all the answers I'm really proud of are to hard questions that only a handful of people understand. So they don't get many upvotes.

ACuriousMind

Meawhile, tex.SE is drawing donkeys. These tex.SE people always seem so... happy.

John Rennie

@MAFIA36790 actually no. I love SF books and read several a week, but I've never been a fan of films or TV SF.

The Dark Side

@ACuriousMind lol

ACuriousMind

16:25

@JohnRennie Oh, I know about that :)

user116211

@JohnRennie ohh nerd :P

Slereah

My favorite thread like that was on Mathematica SE

John Rennie

@MAFIA36790 guilty as charged :-)

Slereah

The thread about doing a butt plot

vzn

@Slereah how about the batman picture on Mathematics? a few hundred upvotes lol

Slereah

16:26

This one is much better

246

Q: How do I draw a pair of buttocks?

I'm trying to develop a function which 3D plot would have a buttocks like shape. Several days of searching the web and a dozen my of own attempts to solve the issue have brought nothing but two pitiful formulas below. They have some resemblance to the shape I want, though not quite. Could you...

ACuriousMind

@Slereah There is some debate over the correct interpretation of the "three-legged donkey" in this case :P

Slereah

Look at that shapely plot

The Dark Side

@Robert : ... that's not a "leg" ... — Eric Towers 17 hours ago

Risque :P

vzn

@Slereah lol gives me excuse to use a fave word callipygian

ACuriousMind

A single word meaning "with beautiful buttocks". The ancients had their priorities right.

Slereah

16:29

it got a booty

vzn

@ACuriousMind amusingly the word is hundreds of yrs old and even tied to old greek words/ concepts. reminds me of evolutionary psychology...

John Rennie

I think we should put it behind us now

The Dark Side

@Slereah Predictably t becomes a contest of the wittiest comment after that:

-1 I rotated it to no avail — Dr. belisarius Nov 26 '14 at 5:12

@JohnRennie Yes, what is our chat session becoming!!

:D

Slereah

Another thread I love on SE is the one on the dangers of overfitting

vzn

@JohnRennie the butt of the joke

Emilio Pisanty

16:31

@DanielSank No worries

John Rennie

We should get back to fundamental issues

Slereah

It had a scatter plot of the US population

Fitted to second order, it gave a decent growth curve

ACuriousMind

@JohnRennie such as?

Emilio Pisanty

Fake internet points are nice, but there's plenty of better places for mine

Slereah

At order 4, the population TOTALLY COLLAPSES in the future

DanielSank

16:32

@EmilioPisanty :)

Emilio Pisanty

Particularly past 25k, there's really no use for the things

0celo7

@Slereah Apparently scared for my mom because she was in the Pentagon

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty Indeed not.

John Rennie

@ACuriousMind A British joke I'm afraid

ACuriousMind

@Slereah Clearly a prophesy of the end times.

@JohnRennie Oh.

Emilio Pisanty

16:32

On the other hand, there's a lot of awesome people on the site who rightfully only spend limited time procrastinating here, but still produce awesome stuff

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty Guilty as charged.

Emilio Pisanty

and it's only right that they get nice shiny big numbers next to their name

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty In fact doesn't that describe all of us?

0celo7

@ACuriousMind Ancient asses were probably not even that good.

DanielSank

The procrastinating bit.

user116211

16:33

@EmilioPisanty Like Motl.

Emilio Pisanty

@DanielSank Personally, I can't very well say that I limit my participation on this site to levels that are consistent with the fact that I have a PhD thesis to write.

The Dark Side

@Slereah lolwut?

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty Hahahaha, nice.

Yes indeed, I found PhD thesis writing actually increased my participation on this site.

Funny how that happens.

0celo7

He answers questions in a manner completely different than what OP wants

vzn

@MAFIA36790 invited the illustrious/ notorious "lumo" as a speaker on popular request, didnt respond, doesnt anyone else here/ somewhere have some sway on him?

ACuriousMind

16:35

I always console myself with the fact that not procrastinating here would rather mean doing it elsewhere instead of doing what I'm supposed to do.

Emilio Pisanty

There's also some selfish reasons, though

data.stackexchange.com/physics/query/344526/…

user116211

@vzn Well he is a bit of that sort.

Emilio Pisanty

I must confess

0celo7

cf. his "physicist proof" of some characteristic class thing

The Dark Side

@vzn I hope that doesn't mean we are retaliating by calling him a swine?

DanielSank

16:36

@EmilioPisanty That's funny. There are certain habits I have on this site which I think are influenced largely by my knowledge of some of my personal statistics.

The Dark Side

I wrote "we", and that's not right!

Gotta go. Bye guys :)

Slereah

So anyway do we have a session topic?

Emilio Pisanty

@DanielSank Yeah, for sure

vzn

@Slereah lol, says mr (~NSFW) buttocks

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank Like what?

Emilio Pisanty

16:38

There's a good quote, I think from Jeff Atwood, that any time you put a number next to someone's name on the internet, they will want to increase it.

Applies to rep for sure, though after a while you can learn to control it.

Slereah

Nothing NSFW about a mathematica plot

vzn

@EmilioPisanty aka gamification, they wrote an entire blog post on that

Slereah

Nothing but cosines and hyperbolic tangents

user116211

@EmilioPisanty That's common human psychology :)

DanielSank

@ACuriousMind I have a reasonably high average score per answer particularly for users with 100+ answers.

I try to maintain that.

Emilio Pisanty

16:39

But also to badges, bounties, you name it.

@DanielSank Yeah, I saw that link in your profile today, funnily enough

user116211

@DanielSank yep; that's what rep is meant for :P

vzn

← favorite badge, tumbleweed

DanielSank

@ACuriousMind I'm also reasonably high on the editors list.

@EmilioPisanty Yeah, I'd like to do one which ranks by fraction of accepted answers because I think I'm high up on that too.

I gotta go. Back in a while.

Emilio Pisanty

@DanielSank Cool, have a good one

DanielSank

Here's a very beautiful octopus to keep everyone company while I'm gone.

ACuriousMind

16:40

@DanielSank I understand the motivation behind that (because in the best of worlds a high ratio would mean your answers are really better than those of others), but I think this is a bad motivator because it dissuades from answering niche questions that are not broadly applicable or are only understandable with substantial prior knowledge.

dmckee

@DanielSank There used to be a SEDE query for that floating around.

DanielSank

@ACuriousMind That's why I want to rank by accepted answers.

user116211

Can you be our guest for physics AMA if you have time @Emilio?

2

DanielSank

Anyway, back later. See you guys.

@MAFIA36790 +1 for Emilio being a guest.

Slereah

Otherwise I'll just be a guest every weeks

Emilio Pisanty

16:42

@MAFIA36790 Potentially in the future, but I'm afraid not for the time being.

@DanielSank That's very kind, though.

user116211

@Slereah You are our mice afterall ;P

user116211

@EmilioPisanty We'd be waiting.

Slereah

You'd better find other guests because I'm pretty sure my topics are gonna get weird otherwise

Emilio Pisanty

anyways, work calls

good day y'all

vzn

@EmilioPisanty whoever objects the most to "our" plans should be an early guest, you & DS nearly tied on that so far :P

ACuriousMind

16:44

@DanielSank Also a bad motivator because it relies on the OP alone , and because it relies on the timeline. A late but great answer will rarely get accepted over an average one that was accepted earlier since it feels wrong to many people to unaccept a correct answer. And sometimes the great answer is the one that doesn't directly solve the specific problem but puts it into a greater context, but OP accepts the one that more directly gives a down-to-earth solution.

user116211

@Slereah: Whom do you want to see as guest (apart from our dear Lumo)?

Slereah

I dunno

user116211

ohh.

Slereah

I know that Frasco is on SE

user116211

Moretti?

Slereah

16:46

I guess he could be cool?

Oh Moretti might be good, too

user116211

@Slereah He was my second choice after Terry.

Slereah

Is Terry Tao here?

ACuriousMind

@Slereah Only on MO.

vzn

@MAFIA36790 re that. had a crazy idea. want to start a (open ended) poll on top ppl to invite. alas, cant think of a good place to do it other than meta (the registration aspect is hard to deal with elsewhere). want to start meta post with individual answers as top physicists as guests, with no respect to feasible/ realistic chances of obtaining them, only expressed group desire. now, my question, how many ppl would downvote that?

Slereah

Errr who else is here

Timaeus seems to know stuff, even if he doesn't know how to answer questions properly

user116211

16:47

@Slereah He is always silent ;/

ACuriousMind

@Slereah He appears deliberately anonymous. If I wanted to remain anonymous, I would definitely not agree to a chat session specifically about me.

user116211

I would also like @Qmechanic but I respect his anonymity too.

vzn

@Slereah already invited Tao in here, hes very active on MathOverflow (but not chat); he has been named/ requested quite a bit

John Rennie

I'm quite hurt that no-one has asked me to be a AMA guest. I'd be happy to talk for hours about science fiction and why Hawkwind is the greatest group there has ever been.

user116211

@JohnRennie Our second mice ;))

Slereah

16:49

I think if you want to attract Motl here, you need to tell him everyone here disagrees with him

user116211

@Slereah Do you want a constant spat?

vzn

@JohnRennie are you serious? consider this an invitation; will you do it? :)

Slereah

I DO

user116211

@Slereah ohh, then Hail Lumo!!

user116211

Let's ping him at Reference Frame ;/

ACuriousMind

16:51

@JohnRennie Only if you tell us the black magic ritual you perform every full moon to stay ahead of us other users :)

John Rennie

@vzn I don't know enough about physics to make it worth while. And since you can count the number of Hawkwind fans on the fingers one hand I doubt that would be a great draw :-)

user116211

@JohnRennie C'mon we know your intelligence... that would be great if you become our guest ;)

vzn

@JohnRennie (this false modesty thing on SE is driving me crazy) :( cmon man, think youre perfect for job, am sure you will get at least as many ppl as slereah, and its emphatically not a popularity contest, at least yet :P

John Rennie

@ACuriousMind I have to confess I sometimes answer a question because I can tell it's going to hit the HNQ list.

Slereah

People will just assume that it was a typo on Hawking

ACuriousMind

16:52

^that

user116211

I NEVER talked with Ron Maimon though ;(

John Rennie

After a bit you get a feel for it. Questions that are just hard enough to be interesting but easy enough that non-physicists can understand them.

vzn

@JohnRennie yes, again, perfect for job :)

ACuriousMind

@JohnRennie I guess there is no magic after all :(

John Rennie

I could talk about colloid science ...

user116211

16:54

@Slereah D and G are just one key away ;/

ACuriousMind

Just a sly old man gaming the system!

vzn

@JohnRennie thats the beauty its your choice :)

Slereah

Tell us @JohnRennie

What is milk

ACuriousMind

(and no, I don't really consider that "gaming the system", it's fine)

John Rennie

My only paid employment as a scientist was as a colloid scientist, and actually it was a fascinating twelve years. Doesn't have the kudos of GR though.

The science of soap powder just isn't as cool as interdimensional warp drives.

vzn

16:55

@JohnRennie there is no speaker after slereah yet, DS is interested but not ready yet, plz seriously consider next slot, its all yours for the taking

@JohnRennie utilitarian engr drives the world

user116211

@vzn However, we have to think on how to take our next guest; there must be some rules....

vzn

@MAFIA36790 badges? we dont need no stinking badges

user116211

So, it is fixed:

user116211

Our guests in line: Slereah; Daniel; John; ...... and then in line: Terry, Moretti and of course the great Lumo ;/

user116211

Where is ACM???

vzn

16:59

@MAFIA36790 certainly want to invite him but he called the prj halfbaked >:(

user116211

Maybe @Yuggib also can be our guest. He is really good helping others (me of course ;P).

vzn

what do you think of the meta poll idea? am this )( close to trying it

@MAFIA36790 yes basically think all the chat regulars are prime targets

user116211

@vzn this is my initial thinking to select. Of course the candidates must be willing and responding (thanks to Motl).

John Rennie

17:14

Anyhow, I now need to get back to the fascinating scientific literature I'm currently reading:

amazon.co.uk/dp/B010PIFESY

user116211

@JohnRennie What is it based on?

John Rennie

It's an interesting idea - there are people that you forget about.

So if one of them stole your wallet you'd forget about that person and everything connected to them. You'd probably decide you'd lost the wallet.

But if you're one of those people how can you live when everyone forgets you the moment you leave their sight?

user116211

@JohnRennie Okay; that's a deep philosophical implication....

user116211

That definitely concludes we want @JohnRennie as our guest ;P I really want to know more about his book collections of such genre ;))

John Rennie

The sort of science fiction I like most starts with an interesting idea and develops it to see what happens. The first Claire North book I read was The First 15 Lives of Harry August‌.

Slereah

17:22

I like my science fiction to be a lot of world building

John Rennie

It examines what happens if you are repeatedly reincarnated with all your memories intact.

Slereah

Oh man that would be awkward

Like when you're born

Do you tell your mom?

"Mom stop shoving that titty in my face"

John Rennie

Yes, that would be a bit awkward :-) As it happens, Harry August's mum dies giving birth to him so it doesn't arise.

Slereah

Still, do you tell the people around you

Hello I'm a baby with a grown man brain

John Rennie

You'll have to read the book and find out :-)

It's an easy read and I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Claire North made her name writing children's books, and her writing is pretty straightforward.

John Rennie

17:49

@Slereah: I'm on somewhat uncertain ground here, but I don't see that appearance of a singularity is a topology change.

Slereah

Well for Schwarzschild, apparently not

But for Kerr

John Rennie

The manifold spans all of spacetime, so it doesn't change in the sense of evolve with time, and there isn't preferred time axis anyway.

Slereah

I'm not sure

"Topology change" has a very specific meaning in GR

It means that the shape of the leaf of the foliation changes

John Rennie

If there is a singularity that just means there is a region of the (4D) manifold that is singular. It doesn't become singular.

Slereah

Well, it can become singular

Like topology change isn't forbidden, in GR

It is just heavily restricted

John Rennie

17:51

@Slereah OK but foliation has no physical significance. It's just a choice of time coordinate.

Slereah

I think topology change is independant of the foliation, though

If the topology changes in one foliation, it changes in all foliations

John Rennie

My point is that it's not a change. This is a 4D manifold and it has a certain toplogy in 4D.

If you foliate it then it looks like a topology change.

Slereah

Well the point isn't the etymology

The point is

John Rennie

But that's down to you restricting the leaves to 3d

Slereah

There are theorems that apply to topology change

Very specific theorems

If the topology of the leaf of a foliation into spacelike surfaces changes, then either the spacetime isn't time orientable, it contains closed timelike curves or the metric has singular points

Slereah

18:04

the fancy term is "Lorentz cobordism", if you want to know

yuggib

18:29

@MAFIA36790 well if somebody is interested, I can do that ;-)

DanielSank

@ACuriousMind That's all true but I'd still like to see the data.

user116211

@yuggib I am very much interested; and so would be everyone :) I've many things to know from you.

DanielSank

Let's not make the fallacy of avoiding information for fear that we're too stupid to properly interpret it :)

user116211

There are many potential candidates I can see if they really want to respond:

DanielSank

@vzn I think we'd get more upvotes on the community ad if the art were improved.

user116211

18:32

JoshPhysics, Moretti, Terry Tao, @yuggib,.... Arnold? i never interacted with him.... and of course our very dear Lumo ;/

user116211

@DanielSank Well, it's not bad though... but yeh not good ;P

vzn

20:45

@yuggib there is certainly interest! the next slot after slereah at mid july is still open. how about it? :)

DanielSank

@vzn good news!

I'm cleared to do the AMA, and I can answer Google related questions.

Sir Cumference

Anyone know the answer to this?

119

Q: Super Mario Galaxy problem

Suppose Mario is walking on the surface of a planet. If he starts walking from a known location, in a fixed direction, for a predetermined distance, how quickly can we determine where he will stop? More formally, suppose we are given a convex polytope $P$ in 3-space, a starting point $s$ on t...

ds.algorithms cg.comp-geom

vzn

@DanielSank kickass =D

Sir Cumference

I'm hoping there are a good amount of mathy people here

Bernard Meurer

@vzn I asked a friend of mine who's majoring in arts to revamp our AMA ad's image. Hope that's alright :)

vzn

20:47

now come the delicate topic/ past minefield of when

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer Excellent.

Thank you.

Bernard Meurer

Thought maybe if we came up with something neat looking it might attract more peeps

DanielSank

@vzn Whenever.

vzn

@BernardMeurer think the more the merrier

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Isabel's sister

DanielSank

20:47

@BernardMeurer Ah good. Octopuses are excellent artists.

vzn

@DanielSank if we leave at least one mtg to DZ, the next slot is mid july.

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Hahahaha

vzn

@BernardMeurer all for it. was leaning toward something "flashy" myself earlier. however with design/ art, its rarely possible to plz everyone, or maybe even a lot/ most...

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank lol

DanielSank

@vzn I'll be in Japan.

Not a good time.

Bernard Meurer

20:49

@DanielSank Fancy

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer Honeymoon :D

vzn

@DanielSank np. but ofc youre highest priority based on your schedule. how about august?

DanielSank

@vzn Well let's just do it when I get back.

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Honeymoon in Japan! That's so cool!

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer Yeah I'm excited.

vzn

20:50

@DanielSank have been meaning to ask about the octopus :)

DanielSank

Tokyo, then hiking in the mountains, then Kyoto.

2

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank Bring me a coin, I collect coins

DanielSank

@vzn Which one?

@BernardMeurer Will do. I collect paper bills.

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference Very few mathy people that are not theoretical computer scientists or something related care about the formal running time of algorithms. The question is already asked at the most appropriate stack for it.

vzn

@DanielSank congratulations

Bernard Meurer

20:50

@DanielSank Paper bills? Rich...

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer Yeah, I have some Chinese bills that are worth almost nothing. It's pretty cool.

vzn

@ACuriousMind lol there are ~2 entire SEs dedicated to the topic

Slereah

I'm sure speed runners care about mario running time :p

2

ACuriousMind

@vzn ...that's why I said it's already asked at the most appropriate stack. What's funny about that?

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank I have a danish coin with a hole in the middle, It's my favorite

DanielSank

20:52

@BernardMeurer Yeah those are neat.

vzn

@ACuriousMind thought you were saying something like "not that many ppl care about theoretical runtimes"

DanielSank

I have some Asian coins with holes.

ACuriousMind

@BernardMeurer Is that related to why you're banned from a city there? :P

Bernard Meurer

@ACuriousMind Yes

@DanielSank i wish my coins had holes

ACuriousMind

@vzn No, read my sentence again. "Very few mathy people that are not already theoretical computer scientists or something related" is different from "very few mathy people" or "very few people".

vzn

20:53

@ACuriousMind understand, but its still twisted. (T)CS is extremely mathematical etc

ACuriousMind

@vzn What? I didn't say it isn't. I said that mathematicians who are not theoretical computer scientists or something similar don't care about runtimes. And that's true. No algebraic geometer, no set theorist, no functional analyst or topologist cares about such things.

vzn

anyway am gonna respond to SC re that in Computer Science

@ACuriousMind so why would we focus on mathematicians who are not in CS? what does that have to do with this room? why would that be an assumption?

Bernard Meurer

I worry about the complexity of my method for putting butter on my bread in the morning even

I don't know how you guys live without that

ACuriousMind

@vzn ...because Sir Cumference said "I'm hoping there are a good amount of mathy people here". And I was pointing out that "mathy person" doesn't mean at all that you know a single thing about runtimes.

vzn

@ACuriousMind ahem ok ACM fine, lets just say that SCs original query is a bit funky to begin with. re "mathy people" his terminology.

there are many mathy people here. from both physics/ CS. & mathy people outside of CS/ physics might be interested in that problem also. (its a crosscutting problem, hence maybe some of the high votes.) etc

ACuriousMind

20:59

@BernardMeurer Now I worry about the complexity of your method of deciding the complexity of putting butter on your bread

Bernard Meurer

@ACuriousMind Please don't do this. Last time it took me a week to snap out of an unbounded recursion like this

Transcript for