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12:44 AM
Yo, I got five hours to learn statistical optics. Which book do I read?
 
 
3 hours later…
4:11 AM
I just reopened the following question. I think it's okay to not be on hold, but it'd be nice to have some more eyes on it.
0
Q: Is the force exerted on the chair transferred to the rope that is pulled on?

a_sidI am trying to independently solve physics problems and I am attempting to solve Chapter 5 problem 4-4 on page 140 from the book "Feynman's Tips on Physics". The problem is as follows: A painter weighing 180 lbs working from a "bosun's" chair hung down the side of a tall building desires to ...

@JackClerk No worries; the room was already quiet, so it's not really causing any harm in this case.
 
@DavidZ looks good to me =)
 
 
3 hours later…
6:49 AM
Hi all there!
Can the vector potential for a static homogeneous magnetic field contain parallel components?
A simple example for a vector potential for that is $\mathbf{A}=\vec{r}x\mathbf{B}$ which obviously doesn't. But then due to gauge-invariance any $\vec{r}x\mathbf{B}+\grad f(\vec{r})$ will be as good. Now I fail to have a proper intuition for what $\grad f(\vec{r})$ could all possibly look like.
Maybe someone could help me here?
 
 
4 hours later…
11:21 AM
0
Q: Star formation from gas?

mickConsidering the ideal gas law , where pressure is always positive, i wonder : How can gravity turn a gas into a star ? Yes gas has mass too. But a light gas obeing the ideal gas law seems problematic to me ? Without the pressence of other matter or gravity not from the gas , I think a star ca...

 
11:46 AM
0
Q: Properties of nucleons from QCD

mithusengupta123Which properties of the nucleons cannot be derived from that of the theory of quarks and gluons? Why? Are these properties no derivable in principle or is it due to limited computational power?

Too broad?
 
 
2 hours later…
1:18 PM
guys
What's a good function that's well localized in space but simpler than the Gaussian function
or is there no such thing
I need it to be at least $C^1$
 
1:35 PM
$\sech^2 x$ is another example, but it's only simpler inasmuch as it involves $e^x$ and not $e^{x^2}$
 
In the end I just picked $(x^2 + 1)^{-1}$
 
1:59 PM
But now I must solve $$\ddot{r} + \ddot{r} r^4 + 2 \ddot{r} r^2 + r + r (\frac{1}{1 + \frac{1}{r^2 + 1}} \dot{r}^2 + \frac{1}{r^2 + 1}) = 0$$
i'm not sure it was wise
 
2:36 PM
0
A: Example of a (1+1) Riemannian metric by oscillating geodesics

SlereahTake the Schwarzschild equivalent in $1+1$ dimensions, that would be $$ds^2 = -f(r) dt^2 + \frac{1}{f(r)} dr^2$$ We'll also require that $f(r)$ be asymptotically flat (just for being a "realistic" potential) and that it is non-singular (so that the particle can't crash in the singularity). The ...

the horror
 
3:01 PM
@Slereah Can I ask something?
 
sure
 
I don't understand when we say "A certain appliance uses 350W of energy..." what do we mean by that? This much energy per hour? Or when we say a battery has a capacity of 20Ah we mean that if the load draws 20Amps of current, it will do it for 1 hour?
 
It should be "power", yes
Or equivalently 350 J per hour indeed
 
"A certain appliance uses 350 W. If it is allowed to run continuously for 24 days, how many kilowatt-hours of energy does it consume?" I have this exercise. What are they asking? How many kilowatts per hour it consumes?
The answers are in kWh
 
They give you the power of the device (i.e. the rate at which it consumes energy) and a length of time. They want you to compute the total energy consumed.
 
3:08 PM
But does this device draw 350W of energy per hour?
 
Is a watt a unit of energy?
 
Then what is it?
 
Well... a Joule is a unit of energy and Watt is just...
:: googles ::
It's a unit of power.
The watt (symbol: W) is a unit of power. In the International System of Units (SI) it is defined as a derived unit of 1 joule per second,[1] and is used to quantify the rate of energy transfer.
 
The second sentence is the key one.
watt = joule per second -> power = energy transfer per unit time
so power is to energy as velocity is to position
 
3:11 PM
So 350W means that this device draws 350 joules of energy per second?
 
Yep.
A more helpful version of the first sentence of the problem would have been that the appliance consumes energy at a rate of 350 W.
 
yep, makes sense.
 
Which importantly means: what kind of quantity is a kWh = kilowatt * hour ?
 
kWh is how many kilojoules of energy does the device draws for an hour? (pff... I'm confused)
 
well, it'll have dimensions of (energy transfer per unit time)*(time)
so a kWh had better be a unit of energy
 
3:15 PM
Wait, P = IV, in watts, there is no time here? Where does it come from?
 
That's the power of a resistor
But power is not just a resistor quantity
 
Power is equal to work over time?
That means joules per unit of time. (seconds) ?
 
Energy transfer per unit time
so a watt = joule / second
 
Yes but the answers are in kWh killoWatts hour?
We need to convert something?
 
Yes. But it's simple enough: They give you a time of 24 days.
And you want to get it in terms of kWh= kW*hours
 
3:18 PM
That means in these 24 days, the device is going to draw 350 joules of energy each second?
 
Let's first convert the watts into kW? By multiplying by 1000?
 
A kilowatt-hour would be the amount of energy transferred to a 1kW device in one hour.
Sure.
Well, dividing
1 W = 1/1000 kW
 
Oh yep, my mistake.
So we have 0.35kW. This is the amount of energy that the device cunsumes per second?
 
No.
Power is a rate of consumption.
 
3:21 PM
now?
 
Still no. 0.35kW is the rate at which energy is consumed.
 
So 0.35kJ per second?
 
If that's the rate, then 0.35kW * 1 second is the energy consumed.
Right.
 
Alright so the device draws 0.35kJ of energy per second, what's next?
 
Think by analogy with velocity. If something has a velocity of 0.35km/s, you wouldn't say 0.35km/s is the distance it travels per second. 0.35km is the distance per second.
 
3:23 PM
Yep got it.
 
Well, again: You want to have this in units of kWh = kW*hours
Right now you've got power = 0.35kW.
 
Let's convert the days into hours?
 
So 576 hours. So the device has power of 0.35kW (Consumes 0.35kJ of energy per second). From here we multiply 0.35kW * 576 and we get the answer that says how many kilojoules of energy have been consumed for these 576 hours?
I feel like there is something wrong.
 
No. You'll have (0.35kW)*(576 hours) = 0.35*576 kW*hours
kW*hour = kWh is itself a unit of energy.
after all, it's kWh = 1000 J/s * 3600 s = 3.6 million joules.
 
3:29 PM
I'm sill trying to get used to watts, it's easy tho.
I feel like we should make the watts to be joules per hour for some reason ;\
 
You'd be wrong. watts = joules per second not joules per hour
 
I know... but it confuses me :D
 
if anything, you've got got watts = watt-hours per hour
 
Lemme try another exercise?
 
because again, a kilowatt-hour (and by extension a watt-hour) is already a perfectly good unit of energy
you do not need to convert it into joules. you can do so, but it's superfluous
a watt-hour is already a unit of energy, full stop
 
3:32 PM
Yep, I think the joules just confuse me. Shall I try another exercise without converting it to joules?
 
go ahead
 
"If you used 400 W of power for 30 h, you have used:" I still don't understand how you can 'use' power. I though energy can be used and pwoer is just the rate at which they are used?
 
Yeah. It's not very well-worded.
Better would be something like "if you use energy at a rate of 400W for 30h", for instance
or "If an appliance has a power of 400W and runs for 30h"...
Unfortunately, that sort of wording is rather common.
 
So first we convert the watts into kilowatts which is 0.4kW, from there kWh = kW * hour. Meaning: 0.4kW * 30h = 12kWh?
 
Yeah.
 
3:37 PM
Yay.
So essentially, what exactly is kWh? The total amount of energy used per second per hour?
 
It's the amount of energy a device rated at 1 kW consumes in 1 hour.
 
So kWh is like acceleration?
 
Absolutely not.
 
Damn it :D
 
1 kW = 1000 joules per second, and 1 hour = 3600 seconds
so 1 kWh = (1000 J/s)(3600s) = ?
 
3:40 PM
All I see is 1000 Joules per second are used per 3600 seconds, whaaat.
 
no
1000 joules are used in each of the 3600 seconds.
(1000 J/s)*(3600 seconds)
 
so 0.27J per second?
nvm
Nvm, let's leave it, I've returned to the realm of joules again...
Shall I try another exercise?
 
well, the point is that (1000J/s)*(3600 s) = 1000*3600 J/s*s = 36000000 joules
so 1 kWh = 3.6 million joules i.e. 1 kWh is just some quantity of energy
 
3.6m joules per second?
 
3:44 PM
second squared?
 
3.6m joules total
1/s*s = 1
 
oh the seconds cancel out sourry
So kWh is basicallyl how much energy a device has used in 1 hour?
 
7 mins ago, by Semiclassical
It's the amount of energy a device rated at 1 kW consumes in 1 hour.
 
Pff, that doesn't satisfy me enough, I understand it tho.
Ok, I'll try another exercise
 
it's no different than saying that mpg-liters are a unit of distance: namely, the distance traveled by a car rated at 1 mile per gallon of gas if supplied by 1 liter of gas.
 
3:49 PM
ok
"A given power supply is capable of providing 6 A for 3.5 h. Its ampere-hour rating is". Ah = A * h. So we have 6A * 3.5h? I guess that's the way but what exactly does Ah tells us?
 
Well, an ampere is a unit of current. What's the definition of electric current?
 
right. so an ampere-hour = coulomb/second*hours
 
or in other words: electric current = electric charge transferred per unit time, so (electric current) * (time) = total electric charge transfer
So an ampere-hour is a unit of charge.
 
3:54 PM
So I can look at Ah as the total amount of charge that this device can give?
 
1 ampere-hour is the total amount of charge a device providing 1 ampere will supply in 1 hour.
If it runs for longer than an hour, or if the current is larger than 1 amp, it'll supply more charge than 1 amp-hour.
 
Yep, I think I quite understand the concepts of kWh and Ah. Can you give me and exercise please because I don't find any. If you don't have time, no problems, I know i'm asking for a lot.
 
Not really, but I can point out one connection between them.
Since P=IV for circuits, one has watts = amps * volts
so therefore 1 watt-hour = 1 amp-hour * 1 volt
 
we call this, the joys of dimensional analysis
 
Why do you convert watts to watt-hour?
 
3:59 PM
I didn't convert. I multiplied both sides by 1 hour.
 
what about the volts.
 
Those were already there.
1 watt = 1 amp * 1 volt
 
I mean, volt-hour?
h(watts) = h(amps * volts)
watt-hour = amp-hour * volt-hour?
 
@NovaliumCompany that's not how multiplication works.
 
ohyep
sorry
I'm so stupid, sorry my mistake :DD
Ok that's a cool relation then :D
 
4:01 PM
the upshot of this is that 1 watt-hour is a unit of energy transfer and an amp-hour is a unit of charge transfer
 
you could argue watt-h = amp*volt-h but then volt-h is a weird unit heh
 
you do see it occasionally, though, as a consequence of Faraday's law
anyways, the statement that 1 watt-hour = 1 amp-hour*volt then amounts to the claim: 1 watt-hour is the amount of energy required to transfer 1 amp-hour of charge across 1 volt of potential difference.
i.e. W= QV
which is just what it should be, since potential difference is defined as work per unit charge.
 
Too much information... I'm still trying to grasp the idea of kWh and Ah.
 
hmmm, strictly speaking you'd only get W~QV from dimensional analysis tho
 
So if I see at a battery that it says "Typ. 5Ah" it means (5C/s) * (3600 s). From there we get 18000C so that's the total amount of coloumbs that the battery can give out? And if a load draws 2.5A (2.5C/s) it means, the battery can supply that load for 2 hours?
(plz tell me that's' right :D)
 
4:10 PM
correct
 
Yesssss
 
You’d have to look at the bsttery’s documentation for that, I think. I’m not sure what “typ.” (typically?) conveys here
 
^ me too but I just assume it's Ah.
 
I think it’d be: if you plug that battery into a circuit that draws 1 amp, that the battery could typically sustain that current for 5 hours
 
That's just another way to view it.
 
4:12 PM
At which point it has no more charge to give.
@NovaliumCompany belatedly, yes
I had to think for a moment about what 'typ.' would mean
 
Last thing, if I see 5kWh on a device, it means (5kJ/s) * (3600 s) = 18000 kilojoules energy... what is this that I get?
The total amount of energy this device can consume? Makes no sense ;\
 
It means that, if you ran a device rated as 5kW for one hour, it'd consume 18000 kJ of energy.
 
Hmm, that's useful.
 
the device should say 5kW not 5kWh for that
 
yeah
5kW is the power rating
The main place you'd see kWh in the real world is in electric utility costs
 
4:23 PM
Yep, I've heard about that. :D
 
you'd see the similar MWh or GWh when referring to power stations and how much energy they generate in a day/year or w/e
 
And if the electric utility cost list says for example 5kWh, how can I relate that joules?
 
or on statistics on how much energy a city consumes in a day/year
 
As an example, a random NPR article states that "the average price people in the U.S. pay for electricity is about 12 cents per kilowatt-hour."
 
12 cents per (1kJ/s) * (3600 s) = 3600kJ. So they pay 12 cents for each 3600kJ?
 
4:25 PM
and since 1 kWh = 3600 kJ
right
or 1 cent per 300 kJ
 
@Semiclassical I read minds xD
 
lol
By comparison, the article also notes that 'a typical U.S. household uses about 908 kWh a month of electricity.'
which is again rather problematic in its wording
 
Ok, slowly but surely I'm getting used to these Ah and kWh. Thanks @Semiclassical so much for helping me out. I've actually learned more here for 6 months that I have in school for 9 years.
 
but it's a pretty common usage of the terms
np
 
Because you can't 'use" wattage?
 
4:28 PM
well, a kW-hour is a unit of energy
so you can rightly use that they use that much energy in a month.
 
So converting it into kJ (like I do xDD) would give me the energy I've used in this month?
 
sure. But again, you don't need to convert it: kWh is a perfectly valid unit of energy by itself
 
Wait, so kWh is measured in Joules?
 
my objection is more that '908 kWh a month of electricity' makes it sound like you're consuming 908 kWh a month of electric charge
no. energy is measured in joules, but it can also be measured in kWh
same as distance being measured in miles or kilometers or parsecs
 
got it.
 
4:30 PM
a kilowatt-hour is not as familiar a unit of energy, but it is one nonetheless
The wording I might have used would be "908 kWh a month of energy supplied by electricity."
 
Wait, if I'm consuming 1kWh for 1 month, that means I'm consuming 3600kJ of energy for 1 month, doesn't it?
 
yep
just different ways of saying the same thing.
 
Omg it makes sense finally.
YESSS
It clicked.
 
the main reason to use kWh directly is for convenience, since you don't have to convert back to joules
 
@Semiclassical I'm so happy :D
 
4:32 PM
just take the wattage of the device and multiply by the hours it runs
 
and we will get the total amount of energy it consumed in that period?
 
right
 
(if we convert it to joules)
 
that supposes that you need to convert it to joules to get an energy.
 
But as we already said, kWh is a unit of energy so nothing stops me to leave it that way.
 
4:33 PM
again, 1kWh is already a 'total amount of energy'
right
 
Ahh, I think it finally 'clicked' :D my head.
 
you could convert 908 kWh a month into joules per month
 
but that only changes how we specify that amount of energy. the amount of energy transfer is the same regardless
 
Yep, makes perfect sense, finally...
 
4:35 PM
just as the total distance travelled is the same regardless of whether we write it in kilometers or miles
 
omg u just read my mind.
I was going to write the exact same thing :D
 
joules has the advantage of being the SI unit of energy. but that itself is only a convention
 
And what about Ah. We can view Ah as the amount of amps this battery (for example) can give out in total?
 
and in the context of US electric bills, you'd definitely see it specified in kWh rather than joules
no. remember, amps = coulomb/second
 
The total coloumbs sorry :D
 
4:37 PM
Right.
It's the total charge the battery can supply.
 
So if a battery has 3Ah it means (3C/s) * (3600 s) = 10800 coloumbs of charge this battery can supply in total.
 
Right.
But you can just leave it as 3Ah, since that is itself a unit of charge
 
Yep :D
I figured that out
 
The main reason it's convenient to do so is that it makes unit conversions simpler, e.g. (3Ah)*(1V) = 3 (A*V)*h = 3 Wh=3 watt-hours
 
3Ah * 1V = 3AhV = 3Wh? The last one confuses me ;\
How can 3AhV = 3Wh?
 
4:41 PM
amp-hours * volts = amps * hours * volts
and 1 amp * 1 volt = 1 watt
that's just P=IV
 
Yep got it :D
 
so multiplying amp-hours by volts gives watt-hours
That can be handy for some problems.
 
So AV = W and from there AVh = Wh
 
Right.
 
In the case of Ah, what would you want to know the total amount of charge a battery can supply?
 
4:43 PM
That one typically uses kWh and not Wh is really just due to the typical amounts of energy involved, I think
Well, you might want to know how long a battery will last when plugged into a certain circuit.
 
Can I say that a circuit draws 2kWh of energy?
 
Not without context.
 
2kWh of energy per hour?
 
Well, that'd require you to multiply by 1 volt first
and you'd have to have a reason to do so
for instance, you might put the battery into a circuit and determine that 2 amps are being drawn off the battery and that the voltage difference across the battery is 1 volt
in that case, a 5Ah battery will last 2.5 hours and will supply 5Wh of energy to the circuit in that time
You could of course convert 5Wh to 0.005 kWh.
 
Ok if I have a battery that can supply a total of 4Ah (14400 Coulobs of charge) and the voltage across the battery is 2 volts, then Wh = Ah * V, so Wh = 4 * 2, we get 8Wh of energy this circuit will consume in the total lifespan of the battery?
 
4:50 PM
In this setting, yes.
 
The thing you wrote confuses me a bit.
 
If you had a different setting with a different operating voltage / current, then naturally the circuit would last a different amount of time and provide a different amount of energy.
 
Ok my question is, I have a battery that can supply in total 6Ah and a circuit that consumes 3Wh. Can I know for how long the battery will last?
 
well, here's an example. the following datasheet is for an Eveready 1209 battery: data.energizer.com/pdfs/1209.pdf
@NovaliumCompany 3Wh makes sense as the total amount of energy it'd supply. But I don't think that's enough info to figure out the time it'll last.
The Eveready 1209 battery has a rated voltage of 6 V and an average (charge) capacity of 11 Ah
 
I mean 3Wh are being consumed, not supplied.
 
4:56 PM
And? If there's no other power sources, then the 3Wh of energy consumed by the circuit had better be supplied by the battery. otherwise you'd be violating energy conservation.
 
Ok then.
 
If you hook up the above 6-volt battery to a 10 ohm resistor, then the current through the resistor will be 0.6 amps
 
In the Eveready battery, we can find the Wh that a circuit will consume until the battery dies?
 
hence that battery should last for (11 Ah)/(0.6 amps) ~ 20 hours in that configuration
and in the process will supply (6V)*(11 Ah) = 66 Wh of energy
 
^ thanks
wait
 
4:58 PM
at which point the battery dies and supplies no further current.
 
^ better :D
wait...
 
(this is an ideal battery, mind. in a real battery, the operating voltage would go down as the battery starts to run out of charge)
 
So it doesn't matter if we say that the battery will supply 66Wh of energy or the circuit will draw 66Wh, since conservation of energy?
 
right.
of course, if you had more than one battery things would be different
and you'd have to make sure to add together the power of all the resistors in the circuit
 
Thanks, I've learned so much about energy and power today :)
 
5:02 PM
that aside, though, any energy supplied by the battery must either be consumed by a resistor or stored in some part of the circuit e.g. energy stored in a capacitor
 
but the equation will still be true?
 
since otherwise you'd have energy that's just disappearing from the system
so long as you account for everything, yes.
 
Hmm, cool.
Well, I guess I'll head to dinner now. See you later @Semiclassical and thanks a lot!!!
 
This also holds true if your resistors aren't ohmic, since energy conservation is more basic than Ohm's law
but if your resistors aren't ohmic then calculating stuff becomes sorta problematic :P
later
 
5:18 PM
@ACuriousMind Here's your monthly reminder that your new avatar sucks
 
Can anyone help me here..?
1
Q: Finding value of inclination angle of thread for minimum tension

Entrepreneur On a plank inclined at an angle $\alpha$ , a body of mass $m$ is kept and accelerated upwards along the plank at an acceleration $a$ with a thread inclined with the plank at an angle $\beta$ . The coefficient of kinetic friction of the plank is $k$ . I need to find the value of $\beta$ for whi...

 
@BalarkaSen Luckily enough, the goal of my avatar is not to please you :P
 
The negation of "X sucks" is not "X is subjectively pleasing to me".
Your argoment is invalid
 
5:50 PM
@Semiclassical In all the parts of the US where I have lived kWh is the unit on the electrical meter on the side of your house, and most home owners have at least a vague idea of how many they go through in a billing cycle.
How are the meters in other parts of the world marked?
 
No idea. I'm not a homeowner myself, so I haven't had much direct experience with them. (And I am in the US, so I wouldn't have insight outside the US regardless)
 
urghhhhh installing tensorflow for GPU is such a pain
 
Anonymous
@dmckee kWh is popular here too
 
It wouldn't totally shock me if kWh is pretty consistent internationally
I mean, apart from the hour it's a metric unit
 
freaking...frustrating T________T
I propose converting all kWh to kWs and watching everyone freak out about their electricity use
 
5:56 PM
lol
I wonder what the history behind kWh as a typical unit of power is
I guess it might just be "bulbs are specified in watts and people measure electricity usage in hours"
 
combined with Wh has too many 0's probably
 
Hm, I still remember the coffee cups that we have got for the first and second produced 100 TWh.
 
for typical household usage, yeah
some discussion of electricity meters here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter
 
okay, so rather subjective question here.
if i'm writing something in LaTeX and I have a line that goes out of bounds (it's a line of code i'm putting in using lstlisting) but adding a return would, if the code was copy-pasted, produce a multitude of errors, what should I do to make the output readable and usable?
 
Does the language of the code have a line continuation indicator? Could use that, though it isn't great.
 
6:06 PM
i dunno, does python have a line continuation indicator?
i don't think it does.
 
If the code is in a float you could change the text size, or turn the float to landscape and use a whole page.
I did the landscape thing with two figures and one table in my dissertation.
@heather My python is barely batter than monkey-see-monkey-do, so I don't know.
 
@heather Python's line continuation operator is the backslash`
 
@ACuriousMind thanks =)
 
However, not all line breaks break Python, e.g. you can line break in an argument list no problem
 
@dmckee well...there's yet another difficulty...I don't know what's exactly allowed or not by the journal - i'm trying to follow their style guide but it's meant for editors not authors, but the author page refers to this style guide =/
@ACuriousMind for a return from a function?
 
6:08 PM
What exactly the "right" way to break a python line is would depend on the actual line
 
@heather the preferred method of line continuation in python is to wrap the line in parenthesis - then continuation is implicit.
But if you need to explicitly show a line continuation, then you can use '\' like @ACuriousMind suggested
 
or, i suppose what i could do, it's basically return [long string of math stuff here]
 
memo to self: still need to learn some python on general education grounds
 
i could pull out some of the math into variables before hand and then use those in the return.
 
However, I would argue that any long python line indicates that your code could be refactored, anyway :P
 
6:10 PM
@ACuriousMind true =P
 
@ACuriousMind my variable names are multi-line, don't tell me what to do
 
pulling some of the code out into variables would probably help make the code more readable anyway.
 
I need a project for that, though. I think I know what I'd do but the last time I tried to do it in Mathematica (which I know pretty well) I just got tired of it
 
@Semiclassical i need to learn some mathematica on general education grounds =)
 
6:11 PM
thisisthefirstvariableimdeclaringitisthevariablethatstoresasixtyfourdimensional‌​arrayoftypeintandwillbeusedinthefuturetocalculatetheweightinitializations
= np.zeros(64)
 
@enumaris you forgot the underscores. bad practice.
 
iamtheverymodelofamodernglobalvariable
 
heh
 
@heather Underscores in a variable name. Dear goodness, what it the world coming to... :P
 
@Mithrandir24601 a pythonic end =P
 
6:16 PM
just as long as it's not pyrrhic and it'll be all good
(a chthonic end would just be confusing tho)
 
lol
 
@Mithrandir24601 All names in ABAP have underscores because the language is not case sensitive and the stupid auto-formatter will gut any case-sensitive formatting eventually :'(
 
gosh darned overfull hbox
i am rather tired of seeing that error.
 
is that an error or a warning
 
@ACuriousMind ::Goes into corner and cries::
 
6:29 PM
@Semiclassical warning
i just mistyped
 
Time-Energy uncertainty is very dangerous
 
thank goodness for tex.se =)
 
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