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7:00 PM
I was referring to GIL for regular Python
 
@ACuriousMind Yes, that.
 
Anonymous
@ACuriousMind Ah, interesting
 
I'm not sure if CPython is significantly different in that regard
 
@EricSilva We need to accelerate the inevitable
 
@enumaris CPython is what you refer to as "regular" Python.
 
7:00 PM
My knowledge about the GIL comes from a blog I read
so...
 
@BalarkaSen o hello zizek
 
The most common version of the Python interpreter is written in C and is called "CPython".
 
snif
 
oh
 
Reminds me once again that Python would be a good summer project
 
7:01 PM
that's some confusing terminology
 
I am a lacanist
snif
 
cus you also have Cython which is like a C-accelerated version of Python or some such?
 
is it lacanist or a lacanian
 
rubs hands in his shirt
@EricSilva o who cares
 
lacanists/ians i would think
my roommate is one but im afraid to ask cause he'll use lacan to answer it and then i wont understand
 
7:03 PM
lacan proposed that our dingus are square root of -1
do you still care about ist and ians?
 
well he's a psychoanalyst what do u expect
 
It’s probably unfair but Lacan sounds like BS from what I’ve heard
 
everything is a phallus to those guys
 
@DanielSank I think it's more due to the fact that they didn't write proper thread-safe memory management when they first built it, and now it's difficult to get rid of it.
 
7:05 PM
that's Lacanism
 
The misappropriation of mathematical jargon doesn’t do any favors for me
 
@Semiclassical my impression is that it's not but it's so impenetrable that it basically is to anyone who hasnt read like all the critical theorists from before him
that it looks a lot like bs
 
I haven't read Lacan, so I'll grant he has meaningful things to say
 
it's hard to judge things that are hard to read
 
that sounds a bit like the IUT situation tbh
 
7:09 PM
@Semiclassical Exactly what I thought of right now, too
 
i mean it's different cuz math is trying to do a completely different thing
 
Except no one has pretensions that IUT actually matters for all but a small fraction of the population
 
except Mochizuki has written things which are recognized and accepted and celebrated
 
Although you can judge them for the fact they are hard to read, quite easily.
 
context matters. the reason why people put effort to understanding inter galactic teichmuller theory is because mochizuki has background in writing good math
 
7:11 PM
also the standard for "right" and "wrong" is different
in math those concepts mean something
 
also true
i think semiclassical was coming from a meta-interpretations point of view
 
in other fields "right" and "wrong" are misleading and it's better to think in terms of "useful" and "not useful"
 
how people interact with texts and so on
sniff
(That was coincidental)
 
If you’re a pragmatist at any rate
 
@EricSilva I think you don't have to go very far into science to know that. Physicists basically play on that axiom
Consistency with observations over internal consistency of the theory
And even though mathematics has tight rules that bars us to play that game, I think in our head we also think of an idea in terms of "useful" and "not useful" before we think of it as "logically coherent" and "logically incoherent"
 
7:15 PM
yeah, useful lies are a thing
we do it every time we draw a plane for n-dim
 
Yeah
I think we prove theorems by progressively zooming into what we have to prove instead of following like logical-clockworks towards it.
Same for learning things too. The former is more efficient
 
insert reference to thurston
 
yup
 
“Education is the art of telling smaller and smaller lies” is a slogan I like
 
7:18 PM
@Semiclassical Wittgenstein mumble mumble
 
Though maybe I should replace education with teaching
 
@ACuriousMind That is so accurate
 
Since education has an institutional connotation
 
The disparity between the process of discovery and recording of discovery is so ridiculous
 
@Semiclassical it's a very sciency mindset though which maybe will mislead us when applied elsewhere is the thing
 
7:20 PM
And to say education as a modern institution is founded upon the pursuit of truth is far more idealistic than I am prepared to be
 
@BalarkaSen Yup
 
it assumes we can get to the heart of things by approximate truths but maybe some things have to be grasped in irreducible complexity in which case you have to throw that model out the window
 
@EricSilva Can you give an example of where such a model does not apply?
 
@EricSilva Approximation of truth does not necessitate reductionism
 
I hypothetically understand your argument but do not see a concrete example
 
7:24 PM
Not sure I agree with that. After all, the progressively smaller and smaller lie might be that X subject can be understood in reductive terms
 
@ACuriousMind i didnt say it did or even that it possibly does.
@BalarkaSen idk maybe lacan is an example but i dont understand it so i couldnt tell u
 
@EricSilva Then I do not understand why "irreducible complexity" would be a hindrance for grasping at it via approxmations
 
@ACuriousMind "approximation of truth does not necessitate reductionism" isnt a refutation that sometimes it might necessitate reductionism.
 
@EricSilva Alternatively it could be proof that Lacan is inherently not meant to be meaningful. Not saying that is the case but you can't rule that out.
I just don't see a model of understanding that isn't approximation of truth
 
@BalarkaSen i agree
 
7:26 PM
You teach it initially in reductive terms, but gradually allow for more complexity until you finally conclude that none of the various models are ever ‘true’ in an absolute sense
I could see that being the case in biology for instance
 
@BalarkaSen maybe one where youre problematizing truth to begin w
 
@EricSilva Hmm, I see
 
i dont necessarily agree w the idea that you cant always approximate im just saying it's important to be self critical about these things because you cant rule out that youre not missing something huge
 
So I’d debate interpreting “teaching is the art of telling smaller and smaller lies” as amounting to an accumulation of approximations. In some cases, sure
 
@EricSilva I see your hypothetical point but I don't see an example of where that actually happens
At least in the realm of "understanding"
 
7:29 PM
@BalarkaSen me neither but i dont wanna ever rule out that im an idiot
it's my most important starting assumption
 
Probably something in the realm of biology/medicine/psychology
 
I think the "truth" of biology is tabular in nature. Everything is axiomatically starting at classifying things
But that doesn't mean the same technique isn't used when doing the classification
@EricSilva I agree :)
 
@BalarkaSen historically, perhaps
 
Anonymous
@EricSilva What do you mean by "problematizing truth" ?
 
Presumably that you're not sure what truth means
 
7:32 PM
I suspect a more modern view is to appreciate where that taxonomical approach breaks down
 
Some semantical loopy
 
@Blue "Hi, I'm truth, and I have a problem"
 
@Semiclassical Hmm yeah but I am not knowledgeable enough about biology to know that. I'd be interested to know if people don't inherently think taxonomically in modern biology though
 
Anonymous
@ACuriousMind lol
 
@Blue like a field where any idea of truth we put down is so reductive as to be kind of useless
 
7:33 PM
@BalarkaSen There's been lots of shifts in taxonomy in modern times where genetic analysis revealed that things put into the same taxon were not actually closely related at all
 
like parts of philosophy are full of that line of thinking
 
I.e. I don't think taxonomy is taken as a starting point in modern biology
 
@ACuriousMind Aha.
Hmm, there's a semantical issue there
Is "studying the drawbacks of a taxonomy" not taking taxonomy as a starting point?
It feels like approximation of truth again
 
Anonymous
@EricSilva But how does it remain a truth anymore if it so reductive that it becomes "useless"? What do you mean by "useless"? Example?
 
@Blue Think of a system of thought where truths are not the fundamental goals of understanding
 
7:35 PM
it doesnt remain a truth bc the notion of truth itself would be problematic
 
Anonymous
Or do you mean the statements which you claim to be the building blocks of the truth are too reductive that they are useless by themselves?
 
Classification by perceived characteristics vs classification by genetic data
 
like take psychoanalysis where the starting point is calling into question the notion of self
 
Is possibly how you’d distinguish classical vs modern taxonomy
 
once youve done that talking about truths is always mired in the fact that the self is dubious to begin with
 
7:37 PM
Perhaps the key goals of psychoanalysis is to understand behavioral codependence, and not actions that are truthful
 
The self as an entity that exists independently of time and space, at least
 
@BalarkaSen I don't think so - the modern starting point is genetics and evolutionary history, and taxonomy is derived from that - i.e. you're finding genetic relations and give certain kinds of relations a name. Think of it like sorting groups into different categories according to their properties - would you say that the "taxonomy of groups" is fundamental to group theory?
 
Mhm I see
 
@BalarkaSen Freud wouldve absolutely said something like this
 
I think we just need a SE-wide chatroom for this discussion though
This is quickly getting out of our realms of knowledge
 
7:39 PM
@ACuriousMind that just seems to change the criteria of classification tho
 
@Semiclassical Sure, but it's no longer "classification for the sake of classification", which a lot early taxonomy arguably was, imo.
@EricSilva Modern psychology is not exactly a fan of Freud, though.
 
Well, as I said: classification based on perceived common characteristics vs genetic analysis
 
When we were Jung and easily Freudened
 
Why
Why would you do this to us
 
Joyce my dude
Finnegans Wake
 
7:41 PM
@ACuriousMind modern psychologists are also really bad at critiquing freud
 
so i would take what they say about his work w a handful of salt
 
@EricSilva I'm probably also really bad at critiquing Aristotle. Doesn't mean he had useful things to say about physics :P
 
When SemiC ehh's, you know you're gonna get rekk
 
7:44 PM
I suspect that one could find useful aspects of Aristotle if one looked
 
i mean the reason modern psychologists are often bad at critiquing freud is cause they either dont understand what psychoanalysis actually is (and psychoanalysis and psychology arent necessarily the same thing and they dont necessarily have the same goal) and also they dont read enough freud to know what his actual positions were
 
dismissing earlier theories based on them ‘obviously’ being wrong bothers me a lot
 
You never know the time-dependence of modern theories with the older ones
 
Hence why I get exercised when Ptolemy’s model of the planets gets brought up, for instance
 
You can't take things out of context and just abolish influence
 
7:47 PM
those are definitely bad reasons to reject his work (the optics are worse given that late freud also rejected a lot of early freud and made it a point that everything he said was not for the purpose of understanding how the mind actually works but an intellectual framework for understanding human intersubjectivity in a specific time and place for clinical reasons)
 
Right. Nor can you ignore what problems they were using the theory for and what kinds of evidence they had available
 
Agree
 
to be like "But he was wrong about conscious-preconscious-unconscious" is blatant misunderstanding if anything
 
The line of Kierkegaard on Hegel comes to mind
Not going to look it up now but roughly
‘Had Hegel prefaced his philosophical works by saying that it was all a grand thought experiment then he would have been profound. As it is he is comic.’
 
dude what a sick burn on hegel
 
7:51 PM
Oof
 
it makes sense that he'd be the ur-antihegelian tbh
 
Changed my mind, see note 36 here: books.google.com/…
His relation to Hegel himself is a bit subtle, I think? He definitely had little patience for Hegelians tho
 
@Semiclassical probably subtle
these things usually are i guess
 
we're on an internet chatroom though, where the only mode of thought is polemical so we have no time for subtleties
 
8:00 PM
The ultimate truth is that we can clearly see that there is no bi-univocal correspondence between linear signifying links or archi-writing, depending on the author, and this multireferential, multi-dimensional machinic catalysis. The symmetry of scale, the transversality, the pathic non-discursive character of their expansion: all these dimensions remove us from the logic of the excluded middle and reinforce us in our dismissal of the ontological binarism we criticised previously.
which renders this discussion pointless
 
Flagged
(No not really)
 
@BalarkaSen write it in french and remove all the periods and it's publishable
 
It has already been
I pilfered it off from an essay on postmodernism by internet's king Richard Dawkins, who pilfered it off from a book by Sokal-Bricmont, who were quoting Félix Guattari
deconstruction at it's finest
 
I wondered if Sokal was involved in that somehow
 
i love how it actually was written by a french dude
 
8:04 PM
lol
 
Original source: books.google.com/…
Probably translated I guess
 
how much money would u bet that dawkins didnt read guattari
 
a lot
 
I can’t really be upset about French people writing like that in their native language. There’s enough context there that I don’t consider myself in a place to judge it
People writing like that in English, thougj
That I’ll judge just fine
 
But they might not be Minnesotans
Being an English-speaking Minnesotan, you might miss context of other writings
 
8:07 PM
@Semiclassical english seems to be more suited to be like prosaically terse than french from things ive read
 
by people who are English-speaking non-Minnesotans
u cant judge anything mwahahah
 
@EricSilva I could by that.
 
deconstruction theory my dudes
 
it could be pure bullshit but it sounds like it might be true
 
@BalarkaSen I can judge when internet people are being smartasses just fine :P
 
8:09 PM
are you @ing me
come @ me bro
I have the power of god and Derrida
 
vzn
@EricSilva think freud should get some modern credit for originating evopsych...
 
@BalarkaSen god is dead and so is derrida
 
@vzn idk if i would say this is true, it started earlier than freud
 
vzn
8:12 PM
@EricSilva did you ever see that freud-jung movie? liked it :) imdb.com/title/tt1571222
 
no but "A look at how the intense relationship between Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud gives birth to psychoanalysis." sounds like weird history vulgarization
 
its by Cronenberg
i havent watched the movie but i am willing to bet it's historically quite accurate
 
vzn
@EricSilva based on a true story™ :)
 
maybe it's that the person doing the description did a bad
im sure cronenberg did a fine
 
8:15 PM
i'm wary of movies like that in general
 
i am not a fan of jung so maybe im also just offended by the idea
 
vzn
@BalarkaSen didnt recall that part. was thinking more of knightley :)
@EricSilva why not? recently read in a book that he psychoanalyzed/ treated pauli, was surprised. o_O
 
The example that comes to mind is 'The Imitation Game'
 
vzn
@Semiclassical liked it too, not you?
 
eeeuler
the imitation game was so bad it's rad
 
8:16 PM
I already knew about Turing from my own reading, so when I read about the degree of historical license I was pretty well allergic to it
Whether or not it was good as a movie/story, everything I heard about it gave the impression that it had very little relation to Alan Turing himself
 
Yeah it's 100% historically inaccurate
A daring goal to achieve
But they did it anyway
 
@vzn more cause of the tradition of people who followed him than him, a lot of them are weird "mystics"
 
Jung vs. the Jungians
(the Jungbloods?)
 
Jungian archetypes
 
8:20 PM
@Semiclassical Jung ones.
 
still jung is dead and all that remains are the jungians
 
Or Jung'uns.
 
and many make me cringe
 
our friendly neighborhood Jordan Peterson is a Jung enthusiast
 
@BalarkaSen (who i thought of as i typed cringe)
 
8:20 PM
lmao
 
that's probably unfair though cause peterson vulgarizes literally everything
 
...what?
 
its a mimicry of Jordie boi's speech style
 
8:23 PM
on the other hand, sometimes you get lucky: for instance, the fact that Ayn Rand apparently hated Immanual Kant is something I'm very happy about since I dig Kant and despise Rand
(fun fact, she once referred to Kant as “the most evil man in mankind’s history”)
 
@Semiclassical it never ceases to amaze me just how much she absolutely sucks
 
can i hab a summary of this ayn rand's views
 
to be fair, there's a looot of misunderstanding of Kant esp. on ethics
 
"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." @Balarka
 
8:29 PM
an old polemic line but a good one:
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
 
@EricSilva That sounds horribly naive
 
good jok @Semi
@BalarkaSen oh it is
 
I do not think that summary of LOTR is a fair one
 
it isnt
 
Oh, is it by Ayn Rand
 
8:32 PM
Sure it is. LOTR involves orcs
 
i was thinking it'sl ike a description of lotr by someone who never read lotr
@Semiclassical lol
tbf one might say atlas involves orcs considering everyone in it is morally bankrupt garbage
 
Atlas Shrugged is by Rand
 
Yeah I guessed
Just checked in google
 
Everyone who lives through it anyways
 
Fantastic burn
 
8:35 PM
Y'all will be delighted to hear that The Fountainhead is being turned into a movie by Zack Snyder, then.
 
LOL
Who else other than Zack?
 
hadn't they tried earlier with a Rand film and had it fail terribly
 
the greatest director of our generation
 
@Semiclassical There's been several other adaptations, none terribly successful
 
8:37 PM
sounds right
 
So Ayn Rand seems to be the very concentrated model of the celebrity positivist types that we see today
 
part 1: USA box office of $4.5 million on a budget of under $20 million
part 2: USA box office of $3.3 million on a budget of under $10 million
part 3: USA box office of less than $1 million on a budget of under $5 million
 
what movies are those...
 
Atlas Shrugged
 
lost money on all of them lol
who wants to watch Atlas Shrugged...
isn't it just a long treatise on how it's best to be selfish
 
8:39 PM
p much
actually, i'd go further: it says that being altruistic is evil
 
heh...
 
@Semiclassical Ugh, don't post stuff with a dollar sign in it here that's not TeX! :P
 
pah
I actually had tex off so I didn't see it
 
I win cus I can't see tex
LOL
 
$@ACuriousMind you have a problem with this?$
 
8:41 PM
$I'm going to write everything in tex now$
 
feel free to edit that if you don't want it to look awful :P
 
@BalarkaSen Oddly enough not, since that doesn't render as TeX, probably because of the @ directly after the $
 
$typing this way doesn't bother me at all$
 
@ACuriousMind $Is this better?$
 
Now we just need to mix actual math in so that he can't get away by turning off mathjax
 
8:42 PM
I wish you could see how hard I'm rolling my eyes right now :P
 
lol
don't roll them too hard, they might get stuck in the backwards position
 
@enumaris Okay, mom
 
XD
 
@ACuriousMind my go-to image for stuff like that: i.stack.imgur.com/V2BMp.jpg
 
site blocked
censors strike again
Ayn Rand would be incensed
 
8:46 PM
 
or maybe not, I guess she would say my company has every right to block images
as long as my company ain't a government
mucho confuso
 
@BalarkaSen A bird flying in circles being given the thumbs down?
(You flipped the image, which is rather appropriate, come to think of it :P )
 
lol
the bird flipping the hand
 
Bird flipping the hand
 
I always love the eyes on that btw
 
vzn
8:51 PM
@Semiclassical btw there are quite a few republicans who are fans o_O
 
yuuuup :/
I mean, Senator Rand Paul.
 
0
Q: Why I cannot ask question?

Perfect FluidI cannot post a question anymore! What can I do to solve this problem? I think somebody did not like my questions and finally, a m... f... kills me. I do not have a lot of time. What can I do?

 
lol ^
 
(also Paul Ryan was avowedly a big Ayn Rand fan)
 
vzn
@Semiclassical was about to say that & was trying to make sure memory was correct!
 
8:53 PM
Rand Paul, Paul Ryan, Ayn Rand...
There is a connection
coincidence?????
 
vzn
lol deep man you should get into (pro) philosophy :P
 
who is Ryan Rand
 
Ryan Rand Rian Rand Rian Johnson...The Last Jedi is the root of all problems confirmed.
 
Also: Rand Paul, Paul Ryan, Ayn Rand is three names
halflife 3 confirmed
 
vzn
1nce long ago dated avowed objectivist. read ayn rand. aieee to both
 
8:55 PM
despacito 3 confirmed
 
reminds me.
@BalarkaSen if you haven't seen devolver digital's "conference" from e3 this year, you probably should
it's the e3 equivalent of shitposting
 
what is that
 
context: the yearly Electronic Entertainment Expo is where a lot of video game companies reveal new games/footage/trailers to the world
and the big name companies will tend to do press conferences
DD's one is...different
 
yeah that i know
this seems like a parody
 

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