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12:38 AM
what does it mean for a state to be unnormalized?
the state given is
$|H\rangle_1|H\rangle_2\pm e^{i\psi}|V\rangle_1|V\rangle_2$
which is supposed to represent the polarization of two photons after spontaneous parametric down conversion. See pg 3 of this paper.
 
@heather if $\langle\psi|\psi\rangle\ne 1$
 
if the state can't be represented as a unit vector...?
 
you can divide by the square root of the length to turn it into a normal vector
 
can one do that with the state given, or do you have to have numbers to "plug in" to normalize it?
 
I don't understand
It's a vector, so it has a length
divide by it
 
12:45 AM
okay.
thank you
 
1:15 AM
@dmckee fortran help urgently needed
 
1:29 AM
@0celo7 You poor thing. I haven't actually coded in it for ... about eight years (excepting posts to Programming Puzzles & Code Golf).
And my book is packed away.
But I'll try. Maybe I recall something useful.
 
are you moving soon?
 
LOL. No. I haven't unpacked it from the last more.
 
@dmckee The suggested code my prof put up has a function (like $4x^2-5$) as an input to a subroutine of a module
and then on the other end in the module the function is declared as a real
that makes absolutely 0 sense
 
You mean something like call subby(4 * x^2 + 5)?
 
idk what that means
@BernardoMeurer where u at
 
1:32 AM
Why don't you type in the line of code in question? The above is all I could imagine from what you said.
 
@0celo7 Here
 
@dmckee it's lots of lines
I don't have a MWE because I don't know what's going on
 
@0celo7 Let's start with the one where that suggestion is.
 
call calceuler(myfcn, x0, x1, stepsize, y0, resnum)
calceuler is a function in the module fcnhwf9
 
Ah, your problem is the myfcn bit?
 
1:34 AM
yeah
on the other end...
there's subroutine calceuler (f, a, b, h, yint, yfin)
and f is a real
I mean maybe that syntax works but I certainly have no clue why
 
OK. So that is "passing a function as an argument". And I don't recall all the details.
Your book should have a section on it, and google turns up a lot of hits with the usual problem of sorting the wheat from the chafe.
 
I literally googled that and found nothing relevant
 
In c you would pass a pointer-to-function, but fortran has this goofy half-implicit way of doing it.
 
huh
apparently it works
@dmckee yeah it is goofy
I thought "no way in hell this works"
ok, time to code this thing
thanks
 
2:14 AM
@Semiclassical I turn away with fear and horror from this lamentable plague of functions which do not have derivatives. - Hermite
 
@dmckee What would happen if your daughter asked you to teach her Fortran?
Because on one hand you'd want to help her, but on the other you don't want to taint your child
 
@BernardoMeurer hello sir
 
@0celo7 Hai
 
the problem statement says that the step size for the integration should be 1, 0.5, 0.1, 0.01, or 0.001
but then the code just has an arbitrary real
I guess I should, instead of figuring out the number of steps, just keep adding $n*\Delta x$ until I exceed the upper bound?
 
2:24 AM
I guess?
 
@BernardoMeurer should I under or overshoot?
 
I generally prefer to undershot
Maybe do one round of Newton's approximation? Would that help at all?
 
@BernardoMeurer I mean the best thing would to be to undershoot, then do a smaller step for the last one
i.e. just do a step $b-N\Delta x$
 
You can do that, yeah
 
I forget, do while loops work in fortran?
they do!
cool
@BernardoMeurer 10 internet points if you understand the lyrics youtube.com/watch?v=oCveByMXd_0
 
2:32 AM
I have no clue wtf he's saying
 
@BernardoMeurer Well, since saying "no" is obviously out we could always work on—say—Fortran 2015 or some such modernized version.
 
@dmckee Sorry, I mispoke, FORTRAN
 
@dmckee how do I tell which version they're making me use?
our file names are .f90 -- I assume that means 90?
 
@BernardoMeurer I donno, counter by offering to teacher her WATFOR?
 
@dmckee Lol :P
 
2:40 AM
@0celo7 You ask the compiler what it thinks it is compiling. Something like opening the about box or typing fortrancompiler --version?
 
This is a real fear of mine
What if I have a kid and s/he wants to learn Javascript?
What would I do??
What if s/he thought Assembly was boring
What would I do
 
@BernardoMeurer what if you have a kid who wants to be a logician
 
Yes I have, lol
That is great
@0celo7 I'd be really proud
 
it's the worst math by far
 
2:43 AM
True
I mean, no wonder Godel was nuts
 
@BernardoMeurer or worse -- a biologist
 
or worse -- a sociologist
 
@0celo7 Yeah, I would NOT be happy if they turned out to be a biologist
Nor a sociologist
 
@BernardoMeurer Michelle is a biologist
 
(sociology actually has some interesting stuff, but sociologists all seem pretty insufferable)
 
2:44 AM
@0celo7 Yes, but she doesn't work with that
I just want a kid that either is far better at maths than I am or is far better at hardware design than me
Is that too much to ask?
 
the first is easy
:P
 
That is true, lol
In my defense, I only got a proper math teacher when I was like 15
 
while (x < b)
y = y + f(x + h)
x = x + h
end while
this will totally work, right?
@BernardoMeurer I might do that final step
just to be 100% legit
 
Sounds good :)
 
Hmm
actually trying to figure out how to do it though
@BernardoMeurer Oh no, that's not legit. Suppose you're at 4.99 and b=5. Your estimate there is really for 4.99$+\Delta x$
so you want to stop there
Well, let's see how this compares to the analytic integration
 
2:51 AM
Why not use newton's approximation?
 
What is that?
subroutine calceuler(f, a, b, h, yint, yfinal)

real(real 64) :: f
real(real 64) :: x, y
real(real 64), intent(in) :: a
real(real 64), intent(in) :: b
real(real 64), intent(in) :: h
real(real 64), intent(in) :: yint
real(real 64), intent(out) :: yfinal

y = yint
x = a

while (x < b)
y = y + f(x + h)
x = x + h
end while

yfinal = y

end subroutine calceuler
this probably works...
@BernardoMeurer I have a program with three external modules, a subroutine, and two functions. What is the chance this will compile?
 
@0celo7 1/5
 
Fatal Error
god dammit
 
@0celo7 That is ... wat?
(as long as I am linking destroyallsoftware.
 
@dmckee numerical ODE solver
trivial problem but we have to use complicated FORTRAN stuff to do it
 
2:56 AM
@0celo7 Well, I got that much, but it seems to be a particularly braindead one.
 
@dmckee ?
it's Euler's method
 
@0celo7 Like I said.
 
@dmckee We did RK4, but for this problem it would add unnecessary complications
@BernardoMeurer how do I rename a file I made with nano?
 
But even a trapezoid integration is neither slower or harder to write and pushes the error term way down.
 
mv ORIG NEW
 
3:00 AM
@BernardoMeurer thx
 
@dmckee unless you've got an integrand which is periodic on the integration interval. the humble trapezoid rule works wonders for that
e.g sqrt(1-1/2 sin(x)^2) on [0,pi]
 
ok, now how to compile with modules
Error: Unclassifiable statement at (1)
subhwf9.f90:25:3:

end while
1
Error: Expecting END SUBROUTINE statement at (1)
subhwf9.f90:9:22:

subroutine calceuler(f, a, b, h, yint, yfinal)
1
Error: Symbol ‘f’ at (1) has no IMPLICIT type
subhwf9.f90:9:25:

subroutine calceuler(f, a, b, h, yint, yfinal)
1
Error: Symbol ‘a’ at (1) has no IMPLICIT type
subhwf9.f90:9:28:

subroutine calceuler(f, a, b, h, yint, yfinal)
1
Error: Symbol ‘b’ at (1) has no IMPLICIT type
subhwf9.f90:9:31:

subroutine calceuler(f, a, b, h, yint, yfinal)
oh my god
 
Goodness
 
it's really upset
wtf did I do
oh I'm stupid
I did the 64 bit conversion wrong
so literally everything is wrong
 
3:10 AM
::throws poop::
this is no time for jokes, Semic
 
I would have been awful at punchcards
 
the second one seems most apt, come to think of it. you think you control the beast (the computer), but the beast has its own opinions
 
wtf, is while (x < b) not correct?
 
i sometimes wonder how people programmed in the 70s without going crazy
 
3:13 AM
I forgot the do
ok apparently that wasn't it
I can't find while loops anywhere in my notes and what google tells me breaks the compiler
maybe if I didn't know anything about programming this would be easy
but expecting it to behave sanely is sabotaging me
 
@0celo7 Well, it is fortran, after all.
I mean the language has (or had when mamoths roamed the Earth) computed gotos!
 
abandon all hope ye who program there
 
Which makes line numbers significant to the logic of the program!
 
F STAR STAR STAR
IN FORTRAN 90 IT'S DO WHILE
 
oh lawd
 
3:22 AM
As if implementing jump tables by hand in a high level language was a good idea.
 
ok, it compiled
that only took a half hour
now: does it work?
it gives an answer
 
time for sanity checks, then
 
First: decrease the step size and see if the error goes away
yikes
91,466% error
 
I have proven the code correct, not checked if it works
 
3:26 AM
the code does something now
just...not necessarily the something you want
 
@Semiclassical I got first two volumes of Reed and Simon for my birthday
 
neat.
 
Expect a trickle of mathematical QM in the coming weeks
 
on that note, I continue to find it surprisingly annoying to simulate the TDSE in Mathematica
 
ugh
it thinks 4/3-5 is -4
somewhere it's rounding
 
3:30 AM
4/3=1, 1-5 = -4
thats...ugh
 
@0celo7 You should attribute that. I know that many, many people will know the source but this is a physics themed place rather than eitehr CS or numeric methods.
 
@dmckee This place is hardly physics themed
it's basically just functional analysis and programming
 
And food. Don't forget food. But is says physics at the gate.
 
(4.0_real64/3.0_real64)
disgusting
that fixed that
but my numerical integrator is on the fritz
 
3:56 AM
@Semiclassical I did the by hand solution wrong :)
 
Hi there
 
@0celo7 ::chuckles:: There's always something.
 
if I have an aerodynamic force model, solved with ode45 in Matlab, and I notice that one of my state variables settles into some final value, how could I explore the stability of this state variable? Do I have to linearize the lift and drag models around such solutions, or is there another process to analyze stability of just one particular state variable?
 
Manualy perturb it and see what happens if you let the system evolve again?
 
hmm ... @dmckee, how do I manually perturb it? change the initial value of it to some nonzero value? (sorry, I don't have experience with numerical methods / analysis. This may be beyond me, but I feel it's worth a try anyway.)
that is, do you mean to change the initial conditions a bit? @dmckee thanks,
 
4:03 AM
@D.Hutchinson Change the final value of the parameter you are interested in and re-start the evolver. But if you got there with a minimizer then it is likely to be stable.
 
Who's going to give me Skiena's algorithm book for Christmas?
I've been a good boy
 
@BernardoMeurer only if I can give it to you in person
I don't believe in remote gifts
 
@0celo7 Come to CA
 
get michelle to pay for it
 
4:06 AM
then you're SOL
 
Ah, I see, @dmckee. How do I change the final value, though? For instance, I code up the equations, I call ode45, I see all of my vectors of solutions. I see one vector of solutions gives values such as 5.44, 5.38, 5.24, 5.23, 5.2222, 5.211, 5.211, 5.211, 5.211, 5.211, 5.211, 5.211, 5.211...5.211... How can I perturb the value of 5.211?
also, @dmckee, the other state variables are changing in time, it's just this one particular state variable that seems to have settled into a final value, say, 5.211 thanks,
 
I have no idea at all how your code works. You need to (a) stop the evolver, (b) tweak the value of the parameter you care about and (c) restart the evolver. The details of how that is done depend on how your model is coded.
 
@Semiclassical Oh lawd. Reed and Simon's definition of "commute" uses the functional calculus
Unbounded operators are the best
 
4:30 AM
@JohnRennie there's a lot of Teriyaki left
 
@0celo7 I must admit I rarely have food left over. I usually manage to eat it all even if there's so much I can barely walk afterwards :-)
 
@JohnRennie I should intern over the summer with you
 
@JohnRennie I made enough for "6 people" according to the recipe
 
You should teach me how to cook, how to C, how to sysadmin, and how to motorcycle
 
@JohnRennie rides a deathtrap of death?
 
4:34 AM
@0celo7 He's posted pictures of him with them in the past.
Maybe he is beyond the reach of death. Or at least missed his appointment and had to re-schedule.
 
@JohnRennie is death
 
wtf
that has to be a violation of Be Nice
 
:-)
 
It's a compliment!
 
Sadly I don't ride a motorbike any more. We all get old and boring eventually.
 
4:37 AM
@0celo7 Depends on if he is the kind who likes kittens (ala Terry Pratchett) or not.
 
@dmckee Isn't it true that a message can be found inappropriate even if it is a joke and both sides agree that it is a joke?
 
I love kittens. They are delicious.
 
^ True
 
@0celo7 sigh
 
@Semiclassical I'm just trying to be a model citizen here
 
4:40 AM
@0celo7 Well, yes. It's happened before, hasn't it?
 
@BernardoMeurer please teach me how to convert fractions to binary
 
I get why $f(r,\theta)=r^2$ stuff is not appealing if you're trying to think consistently about how functions work
 
By I usually try humor to see i it will defuse things.
 
@Semiclassical lol you triggered ted
 
And no one can punch me for excessive dad-jokes over the internet.
 
4:41 AM
now you seek refuge here
 
he triggered me a little as well, if I'm honest.
 
@0celo7 fractions to binary?!
 
i get where he's coming from, but (for instance) the electric potential on a surface doesn't depend on how I choose my coordinates
 
@Semiclassical Interactions like that in the math room have left me with a bad taste
Hence why I wasn't there for months
 
so insisting on using different symbols for the same set of measurements is more pedantic than helpful
 
4:43 AM
You try to make a point and someone says your're wrong and discussing further is a waste of time
Happens often
 
@Semiclassical FWIW I agree with you.
Once you've got a handle on whatever is going on, you can figure it out from context.
 
yes, $f(r,\theta)=r^2$ doesn't make sense if we want to understand all functions in the same way.
 
GR would be unreadable if one constantly changed notations
 
but a lot of the time we don't care about all functions or all possible coordinate systems.
 
4:44 AM
In a computation one can switch coordinates a half dozen times
 
yeah.
what makes it a little funny, come to think of it, is that $f(r,\theta)=r^2$ strikes me as the more 'coordinate-free' POV
 
Did you know it's the 50th birthday of the electroweak theory?
 
@BernardoMeurer like 1.5 in base 2
I think it's 1.1
 
let's see
 
4:45 AM
Boy you're in for a trip
 
it's consistent with the idea that $f(x,y)=x^2+y^2$ is just a particular way of representing a mapping from the plane to the reals
 
indeed
 
What's crucial is not $f(x,y)$. What's crucial is what I'd measure at each point in space.
 
@0celo7 the binary fraction is just an expansion $2^{-1}+2^{-2}+...$
 
4:47 AM
@JohnRennie I understand the concept
 
Are you asking for an algorithm for computing it?
 
I know that too
 
Then you know all there is to know about binary fractions
 
@JohnRennie maybe
 
a binary fraction is a number with a terminating binary representation (?)
 
4:49 AM
@Semiclassical not terminating
 
Terminating or repeating
 
What about $(1)_2/(11)_2$ for instance.
 
(0.01)_{10} is infinite in binary
 
ah. was misreading what you meant
yea, repeating works too
 
4:51 AM
@JohnRennie Ok, so suppose I try to compute what Dr. David just wrote
how do I do long division in binary?
 
Same way you do it in decimal
 
which is to say, tediously :P
 
shieeeeet I don't know how to do it there either
 
@0celo7 Read the link
You'll grow a beard
That article is the only reason my FPU worked
 
@0celo7 i knew that'd be the link
 
4:57 AM
@dmckee I missed that
 
I basically repeated what John said: same as in decimal.
I'm not paying much attention to chat because I'm grading. Except when I am procrastinating.
 
@dmckee Can I help you with grading?
 
and now I am watching The Wire videos
 
FERPA says no.
 
@dmckee censor a paper and put it up
let's see what they're up to
that has to be legal
@Semiclassical Omar didn't deserve his fate
 
5:00 AM
Too #$(*& many of them are up to thinking they can work mechanics problems without drawing and #($&$# free-body diagram.
 
Nope. That was probably the point.
 
And they don't want to be bothered with units which is eating them alive.
 
I want to be a student in @dmckee's class
 
And if they still believed that ulcers were caused by stress I could worry that it was giving me an ulcer.
 
I bet he'd rek me
 
5:01 AM
@BernardoMeurer I go pretty easy on the algebra/trig class because they are non-majors.
Apparently I have a reputation as a tough grader among the physics majors, though.
 
@BernardoMeurer You should take my analysis class in 10 years
 
@0celo7 You should take chub n' tuck
 
why?
 
Tbh I think the only person in the chat who would ace chub n' tuck is ACM
3
Q: Estimating value of Gaussian integral

Bernardo MeurerHow to show that the area $A$ of the region $$\{(x,y)\in\mathbb R^2 : |x|\le y\le e^{-x^2}\}$$ is such that $$0 < A = 2\int_{0}^{\beta}{(e^{-t^2}-t)dt} < 1$$ in which $\beta>0$ satisfies $e^{-\beta^2}=\beta$

He solved this one that was in the exam
 
blah, stop computing slowly mathematica
okay, maybe i see why mathematica was having trouble with that
 
5:07 AM
@Semiclassical With my problem?
 
nah, mine
 
Ah, LAME
 
that is a magical substitution
 
@dmckee, regarding manually perturbing the final value of the parameter to check stability: if I write some even function that stops the solver when an equilibrium solution is reached, then I change the initial condition of that state variable, and then run the model again, do you think that that is the same as perturbing the final value?
event*
 
@D.Hutchinson That really tests a different thing. That is, does the problem have multiple local optima that can be reached from a small area around your initial conditions.
But if you are arriving at a condition where that one parameter is fixed and the system is not stable then it probably won't come to the same fixed point from different initial conditions.
 
5:35 AM
Just wanted to repost my favorite youtube video
 
 
1 hour later…
6:43 AM
hey guys!
can anyone help me with this paper? arXiv:1706.00965
I cannot understand the equation (1)
he wrote the entanglement entropy as c/12 log{[A(u)-A(v)]^2/[A'(u) A'(v)]}
is the entanglement entropy in 1+1 CFT is logarithmtic?
 
@dmckee, and so, my method would work anyway, you're saying? In the meantime, I changed the initial conditions of the variable a few times just now and the solutions for this state variable still settle into the same final value. I'm trying to write code that would automatically perturb the state variable, at some time, t > a, where I know when the solution has settled to a final value. But I don't quite have it correct:
ode45(@(t,y) MyFun(t,y,var1,var2,@theta, ...)
Then in MyFun,
var3 = theta(t)
and also,

function var3 = theta(t)
if t < 10
var3 = 0;
else
var3 = 1;
end
end
@dmckee, the problem with that code (gotten from an old mathworks Q&A discussion) is that t < 10 seems to be only the total time, t, that I run the model for ...
so if I run the model for time scale [0 30], the initial condition on theta doesn't switch from 0 to 1, like I want it to do ...
it'll just use initial condition var3 = 1, since the total time, t was greater than 10 ... @dmckee
 
7:21 AM
@0celo7 digital blackface
 
8:02 AM
it's like people here generally live in the hemisphere opposite to me.
my daytime is their night time
 
8:36 AM
Another Aussie?
 
8:55 AM
yes
 
9:05 AM
not true
Asian
 
9:43 AM
i am aware the importance of food; without food, you can't have energy to think well.
 
10:05 AM
@0celo7 I have a dumb question
I don't see how $g_{\mu\nu}=\eta_{\mu\nu}+h_{\mu\nu}$ means $g^{\mu\nu}=\eta^{\mu\nu}-h^{\mu\nu}$ where h is a small perturbation and second order terms are dropped
 
10:22 AM
@GPhys Consider that $g^{\mu\nu}$ is the inverse matrix to $g_{\mu\nu}$, take the Taylor expansion of $(\eta + h)^{-1}$ and drop higher terms.
 
@GPhys You have to use BINOMIAL EXPANSION
In mathematics, the binomial inverse theorem is useful for expressing matrix inverses in different ways. If A, U, B, V are matrices of sizes p×p, p×q, q×q, q×p, respectively, then ( A + U B V ) − 1 = A − 1 − A...
It's fairly easy to see using this formula
This one, in particular
$$\left( \mathbf {A} +\mathbf {B} \right)^{-1}=\mathbf {A} ^{-1}-\left(\mathbf {A} +\mathbf {A} \mathbf {B} ^{-1}\mathbf {A} \right)^{-1}$$
Just put $A = \eta$ and $B = h$ and you get a recursive formula for it
It's not too hard to see that this is true at first order
 
11:16 AM
I am good at reading LaTeX codes.
how nice it is to have public bathroom everywhere.
taking a shower is important for researchers; that's why the only places which I find to have public bathrooms are universities and research institutes.
not good, I mean.
 
11:48 AM
So I have to actually BUY some articles which are not available online
Total cost : 10£
And this isn't even for a good version, they're sending me xeroxed copies by mail
 
I find Facebook is like a farce
 
12:06 PM
So... I have been doing some human ethics training module because the uni system failed to realise I have already done them last semester and think I am not doing them. Interestingly, I got the exact same batches of questions wrong. I must be very biased on the way I think
 
Who needs ethics
 
I don't even buy the WinEdt code so I keep using the unregustered version of WinEdt.
 
12:43 PM
@GPhys $(1+x)(1-x)=1+O(x^2)$
 
user84215
@ACuriousMind Can you delete messages about changing the topic of a room?
 
@MathematicsAminPhysics I'm not sure what you mean
 
I wonder if we could ever work with those tensors directly without taking taylor series truncation, but I guess it will all be numerical...
 
user84215
@ACuriousMind If you edit, for example, the topic of a room, a message will be appeared in the room due to that edit. Right?
 
Yes. These are part of the way how chat rooms work and there is no reason to delete them.
 
user84215
12:46 PM
@ACuriousMind But you can delete them. Right?
 
@MathematicsAminPhysics Sure, why does it matter?
 
user84215
@ACuriousMind Can you remove them from my two rooms?
 
Why?
 
@MathematicsAminPhysics Why would I?
If you want to hide the fact that another moderator also thought your branding of your rooms was deceptive and therefore changed your room names and topics, I have not the slightest inclination to aid you in doing so.
2
 
this situation is strange
 
user84215
12:53 PM
@ACuriousMind @0celo7 Because they are in the middle of the courses and do not look good.
 

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