The h Bar - 2016-02-22 (page 1 of 5)

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user54412

12:00 AM

@Danu What an excellent question, and one I've worried about. I think it was even discussed in this room a long time ago.

@ChrisWhite Pervert.

user54412

3 hours ago, by 0celo7

@vzn I have GDP fetish, ok

this is all the discussion of periods we need

@ChrisWhite what about that

@ChrisWhite howd you do that

12:08 AM

11 secs ago, by user507974

@ChrisWhite howd you do that

Like that.

@BernardMeurer ?

Grub?

Alfred Centauri

@user507974 Free enterprise, properly understood, is not overzealously protected in the US. That which I believe you refer to, the iron triangle, is hardly protection of free enterprise but rather, a threat to it

@AlfredCentauri We have't come close to free enterprise in over a century.

Alfred Centauri

@0celo7 you're preaching to the choir

@AlfredCentauri as are you

i never used the word free once for that reason

even that word is dirtied in modern politics

and i think the iron triangle is a little dated in modern politics. Its like the iron triangle has collapsed on itself and become a point particle very often

Alfred Centauri

@user507974 "what i mean by that is that there is a kind of overzealous protection of free enterprise at the cost of people..."

12:16 AM

@AlfredCentauri i couldve sworn i just used the word business there

my bad then

sometimes when i go back and erase a word i am thinking a bit faster than i plan to

Alfred Centauri

@user507974 no worries, it happens (more often than not to older folks like me...)

@0celo7 I'm having issues with recompiling a module, that was meant for me to google

@AlfredCentauri if it makes you feel any better thanks to all the chemicals and crap we are growing up around im sure well catch up to you in no time

hopefully that joke wasnt too depressing...

@BernardMeurer huh?

@ChrisWhite I still don't see what my GDP fetish has to do with anything

Just because I like the feeling of The Wall Street Journal and Businessweek on my skin doesn't mean you get off the hook

You might like this then

@0celo7 metal corrosion costs developed countries about 3% of their GDP each year

12:25 AM

@user507974 D:

Fucking iron out to ruin our shizzle

@0celo7 nevermind

@BernardMeurer Oh, grub

were you googling grub?

yeah

@BernardMeurer @0celo7 He didn't piss me off? What are you talking about?

12:42 AM

If anything, it's the other way around.

DS blocks me :((((

He probably can't read this

@DanielSank <3

@DanielSank Shhh, don't ruin my point

@BernardMeurer wow

Is your point that I'm a black sheep of this chat

@0celo7 No, that'd be racist of me

@BernardMeurer you can't be racist to white people

1:06 AM

@DanielSank Are you still around?

@BernardMeurer He's gone and never coming back.

You scared him.

Sigh, I need someone that knows git better than I do

@BernardMeurer My sister?

She didn't reply

Did she tell you what she actually does

1:14 AM

She's in finances

Does she actually know how to use git, then?

I've never understood what she does

No one does

Yep, everyone there does

She owns a consulting firm or something

you have to use it for everything

@BernardMeurer So did you get any Bob Unger stories

Because those are a kernel of truth with a lot of bullshit

1:19 AM

@0celo7 Did not

Who's Bob Unger?

@BernardMeurer oh thank god

no one you know

@BernardMeurer it can be overwhelming and colleges sure dont help much with that. as if a 18yr old can make an informed decision on the subj... what appeals to you about computer engr? do you have interests in eg electronics?

@vzn I like the low level stuff, kernels, assemblers and so on a lot and I few like I'll learn more about computer hardware in computer engineering than in computer sciences

@BernardMeurer I know all about kernels

If $f:V\to W$, then $\operatorname{ker}f:=\{v\in V\mid f(v)=0\}$, where $0$ is the unit of $(W,+)$.

@BernardMeurer to me computer engr involves hardware. think thats fairly std. there is a lot of compiler theory in some parts of CS although not nec undergrad CS... a good strategy is to look up the classes & even syllabuses associated with particular majors.

1:26 AM

@BernardMeurer For instance, $$\operatorname{ker}\frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}x}=\{1\}$$

And all linear combinations.

Another cool one, $$\operatorname{ker}\int_{-L}^L\mathrm{d}x=\text{odd functions}.$$

@0celo7 Quit being an asshat

@BernardMeurer Oh what now

I'm telling you what the kernel is in math!

@vzn I just don't know whether I like software or hardware more

@BernardMeurer np & theres time to figure it out but you still seem not to have said anything about hardware... what do you mean you like it?

I have a lot of curiosity about it, how do microprocessors work, memory all of it

I just have very little knowledge, but I do feel very curious about it

1:35 AM

@BernardMeurer engr is for ppl who like to build/ design stuff... which may incl software...

where did you go in CA? how long? visit some colleges? other stuff?

@vzn I went to LA, SF, Santa Barbara and some towns on the way

And yeah, I do love to build stuff

A week and a half or so

24

Q: How does a computer work?

I have been a computer nerd for many many years. I can program in quite a few languages, and I can even build them. I sat down with a buddy the other day and asked how a computer actually takes electricity and does something with it, and we just couldnt figure it out, and Google wasn't much help...

computer-architecture education reference-question

Visited Berkeley and UCSB

this site gets great reviews: nand2tetris.org

@BernardMeurer did you like Berkeley/ UCSB both? what kind of impressions?

↑ (notice the question showed up on Computer Science, got high votes, but its also something of an outlier...)

@vzn I'll check all those out, thanks :)

1:41 AM

@BernardMeurer what have you built?

I loved Berkeley, amazing place; as well as UCSB, that was tremendous

@vzn In general?

@BernardMeurer did you meet DS?

Yep

@BernardMeurer (yw!) anything

@vzn Things I build that I'm proud of:
A 5000+ parts LEGO Millenium Falcon
3 3D Printers
A Bash script beautifies
A Tesseract wrapper for Python
An Internet data scraper

1:43 AM

@BernardMeurer lol was just guessing something might be legos :D

A TEC-based cloud chamber

what is TEC?

how about a pic of the falcon? your own design?

theres a LEGO® Answers site...

Thermoelectric cooling aka Peltier Plaque

@vzn It's over at my father's; Ill take a pic when I go there :)

and it's this one

@BernardMeurer cloud chambers are for particle tracking arent they?

@vzn Yep, you can see them neutrinos flyin' round

1:46 AM

$6000

@BernardMeurer just buy your way into school

@BernardMeurer yeah did you buy it? how much? is it an old model not made anymore (what year?), is that why its so high?

what is the internet scraper written in? what does it collect?

@0celo7 It was 500 back in the day

@vzn I bought it when I was 9 or 10, it's limited edition so the price spiked way up

you had 500 dollars at 9 or 10?

Just buy them a new building and get in wherever

The scraper is written in Python using grequests for parallel http requests and also makes use of connection recycling. It just scrapes user data from a videogame, it's the API I had at hand at the time :p

@0celo7 I did yes

@BernardMeurer which video game? what data does it scrape?

1:52 AM

@vzn so many questions

@0celo7 probably 1/zilionth of yours in this chat :P

ouch

...

Black. Sheep.

I can't think of one person who has not picked on me.

@vzn Star Citizen is the game. It scrapes some publicly available info, Handle, Monicker, Citizen Number, Country, and some other stuff

@0celo7 awwww

1:53 AM

@0celo7 I can, Duffield

@vzn In italics ---> insult

True, italics means it's an insult automatically

@0celo7 ah, so you can dish it out, but not take it? :P

When do I dish it out?

Always.

1:55 AM

@0celo7 its easier to answer when not. lets see here... thinking... uh, maybe leap days? blue moons?

Who are you?

@vzn I don't know what a blue moon is. Besides the beer.

i woke up

what we talking about

Bullying.

Yup, I get bullied by everyone.

@0celo7 ↑ "victim role"

1:59 AM

Oh forgot to mention @vzn, I also build a water-based rocket launcher

@BernardMeurer all cool stuff! yep do think you have some real/ genuine engr blood in you. :D

Hahahaha, thank you!

that 3d printing is going crazy these days, think it is set to really hit critical mass at some pt in some area. its still looking for a "killer app," its been right on the edge for years. think it might end up being female fashion eg shoes/ dresses!

@vzn hmm

@BernardMeurer you owe me, print a dress pls

a nice looking one

@0celo7 A dress? Hell no. I'll print your woman some shoes if her feet are small enough

2:02 AM

@vzn Dunno, the victim typically plays the victim role.

eg this! nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/…

@0celo7 so was the dress for you?

@user507974 What?

You got me, I'm a cross dresser.

@BernardMeurer What about a thong?

user image

Sorry I don't see the dress

my great predictive powers at work again

2:04 AM

@0celo7 lol (ewwww) what about your sister in a thong? or your gf? or the SJW? :P

3d printing is big in robotics too... drones etc... have seen some great designs...

@vzn kinda weird to default to sister for that description

@user507974 so it fits perfectly! 0celo7 is weird :P

@vzn Ok, seriously?

@user507974 No, it's very weird.

@vzn What's wrong with you?

@BernardMeurer That's definitely not her style.

It's my style

@0celo7 oops! thought you were requesting a thong. my mistake :P

@Bernard see also this one... just popped up a few days ago... clearly critical mass eh? electronics360.globalspec.com/article/6332/…

2:12 AM

Damn that's pretty badass

@vzn I was. But not for my sister, jesus.

@0celo7 your sister doesnt like thongs? hmmm maybe not my type then anyway :P

@vzn You're sick.

Holy crap

What's going on

@vzn With all due respect leave @0celo7's sister out of this, she's an amazingly cool person that has nothing to do with any of this

@BernardMeurer ok/ yeah, you might have a point, maybe shes too classy for everyone here :P

2:17 AM

She definitely is

@BernardMeurer I don't know why he's even bringing her up, other than to annoy me.

@0celo7 yeah, we should talk about something uncontroversial instead, like say the GDP.

What?

What?

@vzn Is there some special reason why you're trying to annoy me?

2:33 AM

Here's something to stirr you guys heads a bit:

dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.1501466

(NB I am only halfway through the article)

@0celo7 <3

@DanielSank don't lie

> The game abandoned it’s details-first approach to telling a story. Fine. We’re going to have a drama-based story now. Except this writer has absolutely no idea how to create drama.

@ACuriousMind Ouch.

> After the mission on Freedom’s Progress we discover that Cerberus managed to build the Normandy 2. There’s a lot to unpack with this idea, and so I’m going to take the problem of Cerberus and their unlimited (yet somehow secret?) GDP, and put that discussion off until Mass Effect 3. For now, let’s just roll with it.

GDP!

> Once again, instead of making Cerberus smart, the writer has made the Alliance stupid.

@ACuriousMind This is a pretty excellent article.

3:03 AM

> He can’t romance Barla Von and he can’t set up his own upscale curio shop selling erotic Asari soap carvings in the presidium

I demand a game where these things are possibilities!

3:15 AM

@ACuriousMind I think the Liara personality change makes more sense if you romance her in the first game. She outright says you're the love of her life -- it's not hard to imagine her going nuts after you die.

Especially because of the little scene in the ship where you force her into a pod and have to stay behind.

Out of character? Absolutely, but maybe it's her way of dealing with Shep's death.

Of course, that doesn't explain her reaction to you when you see her again.

The DLC tried to fix this a bit...but it's not incredibly convincing.

> Kashley said the Alliance got a tip Shepard was working for Cerberus, so Shepard concluded that Cerberus had something to do with the attack on Horizon? What? I mean, they DID, but this is a nonsense leap of logic.

@ACuriousMind Wait, was Cerberus giving the Collectors the locations of human colonies? Did I miss something that important?

Yes, I am going full Secret now.

user image

@0celo7 'bout what?

@DanielSank Are you going to block me again

I'm going to be posting lots of ME stuff that I hope @ACuriousMind won't outright ignore

3:32 AM

@DanielSank youtube.com/watch?v=5nwNfmkaV_I

I love watching my hero

We Need Brain: Songify the G.O.P. Debate!

@0celo7 You gave Obama a big hug!

> [...] they only have one ship. The Collectors aren’t a threat to Earth. They’re losers.

> They’re losers.

Trump!

@BernardMeurer Huh?

4:07 AM

@BernardMeurer lol so you are brazilian! (hey that reminds me have you been to carnivale?)

@vzn You didn't know I am Brazilian?

Well, we have Carnival every year, so yep

@vzn What's a good introductory book on algos?

@BernardMeurer there are so many. std refs are all good. learned from sedgewick myself long ago... it depends what you want to learn...

actually have always liked Turing Omnibus by AK Dewdney as a survey/ (T)CS highlights reel... has big visual side & covers some advanced stuff in fun way...

I just wanted something that covered up from the very basics

@BernardMeurer one way to decide/ narrow it down is whether you want to code it or not... (personally am strongly pro-code myself but CS purists have been known to significantly downplay that...)

I think I do, yeah

4:15 AM

@BernardMeurer just found this new ref that teaches via gaming, tend to highly recommend that approach also for beginners... learned that way myself ages ago...

Not too much of a fan of gaming to be honest, but if it's good I'll take it

@BernardMeurer really! ok. maybe not for you. havent looked at it in detail myself, just really like/ relate to the angle.

amazon.com/Learn-Code-Games-John-Quick/dp/1498704689

I have the motor skills of a defunct sloth, makes games really hard

@BernardMeurer ah yeah most games are reflex oriented but also many are not... and heck lets face it, many require same dexterity as driving car... heck many are driving a car...

I can't drive either ;-;

4:21 AM

did you say youve done some python already? theres a lot of good refs using that... python is also very good for scientific coding these days...

I've done quite a bit of Python

@BernardMeurer the online courses are very good these days. theres a guy over in Computer Science chat room recently who just tracked down a bunch... in python! (see transcript). coursera looks good. theres even one co-taught by sedgewick himself... o_O

so did you like santa barbara or berkeley more?

i'll take a look!

Dunno, maybe UCSB

But that's maybe just because of @DanielSank's conversion power

berkeley was p amazing too

user54412

pretty sure they're both great places :p

@ChrisWhite Great is wherever you are

/ / \ \ / / \ \
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Dammit, it was a massive heart

user54412

4:34 AM

try with 4 spaces before each line

Too much work, you get the love

oo
   oo     OOOOOOOO:       OOOOOOOO!
      oOOOO!!!!;;;;O    OO.......:;!O
     'OOO!!!;;;;;;;;O  O.......:   ;!O
     OOO!!!!;;::::::.OO........:    ;!O
     OO!!!!;;:::::..............:   ;!O
     OOO!!!;::::::..............:   ;!O
      OO!!;;::::::.............:   ;!O
       OO!;;::::::......oo.....::::!O
         O!!;::::::........oo..:::O
           !!!;:::::..........ooO
              !!;:::::.......O   oo
                ;;::::.....O        oo  ,o
                   :::..O              ooo

2

Ha!

user116211

@BernardMeurer Van Gogh:D

user54412

user image

user54412

very excitable it seems...

lol, it did involve a python script to make

I'm addicted, I can't even express love without Python

Well, at least it's not x86 assembly

user116211

4:48 AM

user image

@user36790 that's pretty good actually

user116211

@BernardMeurer everyone falls in love with Python.

user54412

that got cut off before the best lines

They should, it's a great language

PYTHON: Because at least it's faster than Ruby.

user116211

And the worst??

user116211

4:53 AM

COBOL!!!!

COBOL is pretty bad yeah

user116211

@BernardMeurer Disaster!!!

user54412

how old are you people that you even know what cobol is?

17

user116211

@ChrisWhite 18

4:54 AM

Have seen cobol and cried

user116211

My grandpa died using COBOL ;(

@user36790 Somehow I don't doubt that

user116211

@BernardMeurer No, it's not joke. He was a Programmer and he hated it most. At his death bed also, he fied it.

Well he did have total and absolute reason

user116211

And also he hated those Boolean types....

user116211

4:58 AM

can't remember the name ;/

user116211

89!! some sort of that

level-88 isn't that something to do with cobol bools?

user54412

"The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense." -- Dijkstra

user116211

@BernardMeurer t1 BASIC

user116211

This is the villain:

user116211

5:01 AM

Grace Brewster Murray Hopper (December 9, 1906 – January 1, 1992), née Grace Brewster Murray, was an American computer scientist and United States Navy Rear Admiral. She was one of the first programmers of the Harvard Mark I computer in 1944, invented the first compiler for a computer programming language, and was one of those who popularized the idea of machine-independent programming languages which led to the development of COBOL, one of the first high-level programming languages. She is credited with popularizing the term "debugging" for fixing computer glitches (in one instance, removing a...

user116211

> COBOL - high-level programming language

You know the times are dark when COBOL is said to be high-level

@BernardMeurer You're going for undergrad, right?

In that case, just pick the place you'd rather live.

@DanielSank Yep

How should I know tho?

@BernardMeurer Well, I can offer some advice.

Berkeley puts you in/near a real city.

This means more options for social interaction, clubs, dancing, whatever.

IMHO, that's a pretty big plus.

Santa Barbara is probably a little cheaper, but has less restaurants etc.

However, Santa Barbara has incredibly nice beaches, excellent bike paths and things like that.

Both programs are good.

5:16 AM

Bike paths <3

UCSB has a special honors program that students quite like. Berkeley probably has all kinds of stuff too.

In a sense, I want to recommend Berkeley more because it's just got more options.

Of course, I'm in Santa Barbara, which is a major plus.

:P

hahaha, but it really is! Knowing someone at all makes a major difference, let alone someone in the same area (academically) somewhat

@BernardMeurer Pffft. You'll make friends really fast no matter where you go.

@DanielSank But none will show me burrito places ;-;

Oh, there are a lot of parties at UCSB. It's a major part of the social scene. There's other stuff too, of course, but keep that in mind.

@BernardMeurer You'll find them. If you toss a stone in Oakland you hit a restaurant.

5:20 AM

Meh, parties are overrated

Too much noise, hurts my single functioning ear :p

@BernardMeurer I agree, they're boring. I mean really large parties.

I like smaller ones with a good mix of people I know and people I don't know.

Exactly

@BernardMeurer Yeah, well, both schools are good.

The one benefit I can see of UCSB is rather awesome natural beauty. Oh, one more small thing is that the airport is really small, which makes it easy to deal with. The down side of that is you have to go through connecting cities all the time.

All in all I lean toward Berkeley. The city environment just offers so much. Heck, I'd have a friend to go visit!

Well I do have to get accepted to either first tho

Indeed! I'd have a reason to drive down sometimes too!

@BernardMeurer Yup.

If you wind up in Berkeley we'll have to go tour the main Google campus up there.

It's amazing

5:26 AM

I had meal there, but that was just it, over at mountain view

The food is pretty good, and so is the gingerale

I keep forgetting you work at google and not for UCSB

Yeah the food there is rather good.

I'm so anxious for the answers to come in

Ehh, just wait.

You're either going to get in or not. There's not a damned thing you can do about it.

I'm confident about UPenn tho, the interview was really good

So, you might as well just wait.

5:34 AM

true

user116211

@BernardMeurer How do you enter colleges? I don't know actually how this takes place in US.

5:47 AM

@user36790 It's a very long and boring process that involves:
Your GPA (school grades)
Your SAT Scores (standardized test)
Extracurricular activities
One or more Essays
Possibly an interview
Recommendation letters

and sometimes even more stuff

user116211

@BernardMeurer o.o

user116211

At least the process is quite better in India.

@user36790 How does that go?

user116211

@BernardMeurer Well, you have to give JEE- joint entrance examination, conducted by the IITs on behalf of Ministry of Human Resource development, GOI. The exam is conducted in two levels: Mains and Advanced. If you are in 100000 in Mains ranklist, then you are eligible to give Advanced. If you are in 10000, then that's it....

Do you get second chances?

user116211

5:55 AM

You are either in IIT, IISc or IISER or any other govt. colleges. No extracurricular activities; no interviews, no Recommendation Letters.

user116211

@BernardMeurer Yes.

user54412

And one wonders why India only trains programmers and engineers...

user116211

@ChrisWhite Huh?

user116211

@BernardMeurer There is even no need of GPA; just that you have passed with distinction in 1st division and you are eligible for Mains.

user54412

@user36790 The system seems designed to select for a very narrow type of success. What about historians and linguists and philosophers and astronomers? Do they shine in the entrance exam?

5:58 AM

Is schooling mandatory for all children?

user116211

There are some private exams also held by IISER other than the Advanced stream. And there is BITSAT of BITS. The latter is the easiest of all but quite lengthy.

user116211

@ChrisWhite Only for architects and engineers.

user116211

@user685252 No.

:(

user116211

@ChrisWhite JEE is for all engineer streams and also Natural Sciences. Medical Exam is held separately.

user116211

6:00 AM

I don't know of historians or others.

user116211

@ChrisWhite Also astronomers.

@ChrisWhite ah, the old "assume that theres a false dichotomy" trick

India only trains useful people.

You're in one of two categories: programmer/engineer or useless.

You're asking the wrong question.

It should be "how does India manage to only produce useful workers"

2

6:16 AM

@user36790 except mice

@0celo7 Your girlfriend is a music major dude

user116211

I don't know why extracurricular activities are taken in consideration in US ;/

All work and no play makes Johnny a dull boy.

user116211

@user685252 wtf!

6:39 AM

@user36790 Who you are as an individual matters. What you do to your community matters; that's why

@ChrisWhite I still think punctuation in equations is uggggggly

user116211

@BernardMeurer Agreed.

I agree, punctuation only belongs in sentences.

That includes sentences with equations.

:-)

One would need a pretty strong argument to override the rule that a word sentence requires a period at the end.

19

Q: Finishing math with a period

I am new to this site and couldn't find this question after a quick search but it may have been asked before. This is possibly the most inconsequential issue one can have, but it has been bothering me for months. When I finish a line of math (especially with the double $$), I often end with a p...

math-mode punctuation best-practices

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Feb '1622

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