The Loop

Rarst

00:06

I don't get the point of PHP Pear. every damn thing I installed so far doesn't work out of the box and needs to dive in and correct stuff :\

Stack Exchange

03:36

1

Q: Tag synonym - Template/Templates

Seeing as the posts for these two tags are very similar (and to the best of my knowledge refer to the same tag) I propose that we synonym [templates] -> [template]

discussion

Rarst

12:08

anyone using Phing?

toscho

@Rarst Simple XML buildfiles – stop reading here

Rarst

@toscho what are you using then? (damn, I just channeled Aahan)

toscho

a bunch of smaller tools

nothing too complex

Rarst

namely?

toscho

hand written scripts

Rarst

12:14

my problem with phing that for some reason it looks for includes and stuff in subdir... while it all isn't in subdir :\

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst PEAR always seemed obtuse and opaque, you know how some projects have a bit like "hello we are A, we built B, and B does C, to use it do D and E, here's the source" so you know what it does where to find it and where it's saved/hosted online

Rarst

@TomJNowell pear sucks, but what Phing has on github is source to build pear package and their manual installation instructions are like page long...

Tom J Nowell

whereas PEAR you're never given anything concrete, and if there is, it's not easily apparent. There's no obvious way to determine how to acquire a pear package or what each package does, or how to list them, install them, or how up to date they are

userabuser

@TomJNowell Well said...

Rarst

@TomJNowell Uniform server comes with decent web interface for pear, so that solves most of that

Tom J Nowell

12:23

like NPM? If you're a beginner you just get told "install this node package" and you're like "wait waaaaahh?" no explanation, everyone assumes you know how, nobody ever thinks you might not be a node.js dev or have that setup installed so how would you grab their jquery plugin?

userabuser

@TomJNowell Well well said...

Tom J Nowell

@userabuser I shall add another empty draft blogpost to tomjn.com

along with how to setup an OS X dev environment part 1 and 2, and the next 2 days of wordcamp I still haven't written up

toscho

How many drafts do you have on your main blog? I have 72. :/

Rarst

@toscho none :) when I start post I finish post

userabuser

@TomJNowell I have not slept for a few days, I know not of what you speak. Empty draft? I see only one post?

Tom J Nowell

12:26

@userabuser I have a lot of posts in there that are draft posts, they only have a title ( they're not published )

Rarst

ooookay, Phing is ticking - PHP config for CLI was missing include_path

toscho

I am really good with titles …

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst your posts aren't very long though so you can do the time

userabuser

@TomJNowell If your posts are as vague as PEAR and or NPM then they should forever remain as drafts.

Tom J Nowell

@userabuser lol I cant do the setup of an OS X dev environment in 2 paragraphs unless I do a lot of assumptions

and I'm not finished setting it up either

userabuser

12:28

What I like about @Rarst's blog is that its confusing to know whether a comment-discussion is recent or old. I find it refreshing.

Tom J Nowell

and wordcamp day 1 and 2 are lengthy because a lot happened

Rarst

@userabuser keeping things interesting

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst ah no dates/times, nice idea

userabuser

:)

Rarst

@TomJNowell I am sneakier than that. I have dates on recent posts only

feed the "fresh" junkies, but deny them knee-jerk reaction on older stuff

toscho

12:30

I have the post date and the last modified date if it is more than three day newer than the post date.

Tom J Nowell

heh, well the dates are gone on your most recent post, I may do the same with all dates on tomjn.com

I've still much to do, like styling up comments and fixing p tag wrapping images etc

userabuser

@Rarst Imagine if some of the worlds most popular sites adopted your methodology (Twitter, Facebook, etc) , it'd be pandemonium. I like the thought of that.

After we are done with real time web applications, the next trend will be no time web applications. Mark my word.

3

Rarst

@userabuser they specialize in news junkies, content that is worthless in a day. my most popular content is old, no one is interested to read my stuff just because it's fresh

toscho

@userabuser Happened already: LinkedIn was hacked in no time.

userabuser

@toscho muhaha.. LinkedIn is not a real website.

kaiser

12:36

What is LinkedIn?

userabuser

@Rarst They also create a generation of people who can't hold a thought for more than no seconds.

@kaiser A big circle jerk.

Rarst

"A DLL for this PECL extension is currently unavailable." is there damn DLL for ANY extension available? cause I hadn't seen any

kaiser

@All Has anyone of you ever heard from "moredigital.com" or "More Digital" (Ad company)?

userabuser

No DLLs available for any PECL extensions, they are just mirages.

@kaiser No, but apparently they say they are "more creative, more intelligent, more strategic". That's a relief.

What I love about social media marketing companies is the vague terminology they use to sell their almost as vague services that produce equally vague results.

kaiser

@userabuser What exactly is a "relief"?

userabuser

12:43

That they are "more" of everything, which includes their competitors, which makes them "more" or "less" the best. So I was relieved by their marketing message.

...or you could say I was being sarcastic. Which I was.

I have a love/hate relationship with SMM/SEM/SEO companies.

@kaiser Are you considering using their services?

toscho

@kaiser’s humor detector fits between two chat message boxes. Don’t overuse it.

kaiser

@userabuser Not really. They asked me if I want to put ads on my site for an annual fee... which is some kind of strange.

Tom J Nowell

@userabuser make a hard solid claim, back it up with hard solid stats, repeat, add in testimonial, big call to action, it isn't hard, so few even attempt it, it's about reassurance imo

userabuser

@kaiser Not strange. I periodically receive the same kind of emails from a host of ad-network companies asking the same thing. This is their manual method of ad-placements for clients.

@TomJNowell Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Coupled with a decent USP if you can muster one and following PROPER conversion-optimization principles you should be good to go. But, like you said, so few even attempt it but that's more so because they haven't the slightest F'n idea what they're doing to begin with.

No concept of USER FLOW and FOCUS TARGETING their message. In terms of ad-networks majority of them are more than vague, more like dark matter - partially incomprehensible.

Tom J Nowell

13:11

tomjn.com/61/the-fontsplosion-bread

Aahan Krish

> Babylscript is an open source project that aims to translate JavaScript to all the world's languages, including French, Spanish, Chinese, and Arabic.

More complexity

userabuser

@TomJNowell Nawww.. you're pulling our leg aren't you? No one asked that question did they? Or did they?

Tom J Nowell

@userabuser indeed they did

userabuser

Hmm..

@AahanKrish Saw that the other day, stupid stupid and stupid idea.

Aahan Krish

Like they have no better things to do :D

userabuser

13:17

@TomJNowell I would have answered with "Progress." and then politely asked security to remove this person from the room.

Tom J Nowell

oooh

well I dont remember the exact wording

it was more why people are overusing and abusing all these fonts

userabuser

@AahanKrish Babblescript.

Aahan Krish

hehe!

userabuser

@TomJNowell Why are people creating new javascript plugins and frameworks that abstract away abstraction to the point of being so abstract is what I want to know? So many plugins I am going to explode!

Or what about all these programming languages f'n with my focus...

Tom J Nowell

@userabuser instead of fixing or re-implementing the original abstraction to be more elegant, they put their own over the top, a wrapper wrapper, or a wrapper wrapper wrapper even

userabuser

13:22

Hmm so basically what you are saying is that its about wrapping. You've put me at ease.

Tom J Nowell

@userabuser I'm going to write a shit tonne of boilerplate once so that I don't have to write these 10 characters every time ( but to use it I have to add in these 30 characters in my header after jquery loads )

Rarst

@userabuser delusional "I can simplify and improve this" which really is "it's easier to my own code than someone else's". you know, 100% programmers believe they can do a better job, 1% can...

userabuser

I think someone needs to DDoS attack the Babylscript website. Its bad bad bad for people to be exposed to such a notion that JS should be translated into other languages.

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst you don't do a better job by writing more code on top of someone elses, that's not doing a better job, that's building a second job on top of the existing one

Rarst

I am spending months thinking about few functions of abstraction code I use... when I see people generating abstraction by hundreds of functions it's just... meh

@TomJNowell if that was true - no one would need code beyond assembler, no one would need APIs beyond Win/Linux core...

userabuser

13:25

@TomJNowell I'm really liking your boilerplate kung fu. I think within the next 6 months I am going to forget how to write HTML.

Rarst

abstraction is vital, but it is also complex to get right

userabuser

@Rarst I totally agree. But you know what I really love is all these half not even close to being done undocumented gits. Lovvvvvee em!

Should I release my WP abstraction function framework? - I want to make the elitists cry and tweet.

Aahan Krish

13:41

getmailbird.com

...for Windows only!

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst when the code you write saves more time and effort than just using the code it wraps/replaces, it's usually a good effort

Rarst

13:58

@AahanKrish wow, that's bold - making software for most popular desktop OS...

kaiser

@All Riddle time: I'm pulling two post types: post, page from $GLOBALS['wp_post_types'] and using them as post type inside register_taxonomy() on the init hook. The one for page is showing up, the one for post not. How to debug this one?

Tom J Nowell

14:21

@AahanKrish I did some comment styling, not 100% there yet, but it's a start

Aahan Krish

@TomJNowell good start. some space between the commenter's name and comment would be nice :)

And what's with those dashed borders on all links?!

Tom J Nowell

@AahanKrish I need to redo how the avatar is shifted and decide what to do with the reply link still, but its an improvement on the old

Aahan Krish

messing with style?

Tom J Nowell

@AahanKrish the gray wasn't obvious enough, and plain underline wasn't doing it for me

Aahan Krish

hmm...

Tom J Nowell

14:27

@AahanKrish just fixed that so it only applies to links inside p tags, the images were getting them too, I need to go through it all again for another iteration

in the meantime, retweet my blogposts =p

Aahan Krish

:D sure

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst what metric are you using for reading time? How many seconds per word?

Rarst

	$m = round( $words / 200);
	$s = ( $m == 1 ? '' : 's' );
	echo "<li><strong>~{$m} minute{$s}</strong><br />to read</li>";

Aahan Krish

150 words per minute (slow), 200 (average), 250 (good speed)

Rarst

oh dear... why had you made me look at this file!? it's a mess...

Tom J Nowell

14:31

saw a <br> tag and faints

Rarst

see...

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst that would sounds strange in english said out loud

saw is a better word, edited

Rarst

I was going for "Do you see what I mean?" not "Yes, I saw that"

ok, that was mutually confusing exchange of misunderstanding, moving on... :)

Tom J Nowell

14:53

@Rarst lol is the restatement theme up somewhere for all to see?

Rarst

@TomJNowell duh, at rarst.net? or you mean code?

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst code clearly

Rarst

nah, it's unfit for public consumption

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst probably better than most of the detritous already out there

Rarst

I am scrapping it when Hybrid Wing is built up

Tom J Nowell

15:09

@Rarst hybrid wing?

Rarst

new theme, early version is live as parent for QueryPosts

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst oooh a new hybrid theme of your own machination, I was thinking it was something todo with tadlock I hadnt heard of

but why 'wing'?

Rarst

cause second half of it is Twitter Bootstrap

Tom J Nowell

15:29

@Rarst I can imagine there being a pretty nifty logo for that

Rarst

@TomJNowell Hybrid Wing? yeah. also not getting sued by NASA would be good :)

Aahan Krish

16:01

> Germany’s Otto Group steps up Brazilian invasion

lol!

Tom J Nowell

16:53

@AahanKrish ? was that meant to be a link?

Aahan Krish

@TomJNowell it's just a headline (Otto)

Tom J Nowell

17:05

@AahanKrish I feel lost, you've provided no context, what is this 'otto' group you speak of

a pun on our Otto?

Aahan Krish

@TomJNowell :P

yes

toscho

17:34

room topic changed to StopPress: Where humor doesn’t work. (no tags)

Michael Ecklund

17:52

as a plugin developer, is it good practice to always trim input fields?

kaiser

Yes, as long leading/trailing spaces are not wanted :P

Michael Ecklund

recent client of mine thought it was ridiculous that the plugin i built for them didn't work if they had a space at the beginning or the end of an input field value.

i guess i figured, how hard is it to just enter something correctly? without spaces prefixing or suffixing. oh well, thanks for your opinion.

kaiser

Honestly: Always trim input fields. The user is never too dump - code is.

Michael Ecklund

is there anything else i should ALWAYS do with user inputted data?

kaiser

Sanitize/Validate

Michael Ecklund

18:04

i already validate blank fields and required fields. never really used sanitize (lol don't laugh)

what's all involved with sanitizing?

Rarst

@MichaelEcklund it is extremely easy to get unwanted whitespace in when copypasting

Michael Ecklund

@Rarst that sounds like an exact quote from my client. heh

can you add a network site to multi site that is on a completely different server? or do they need to be on the same server?

kaiser

sanitize_term_field() ... have to add in a filter cb for every single field, that I add to a taxonomy. Else data stays unescaped... ? Wut?

Michael Ecklund

19:04

anyone know of a plugin that actually works in relation to integrate facebook fanpage commenting with the WP comment system?

Aahan Krish

@MichaelEcklund wordpress.org/extend/plugins/simple-facebook-connect

Michael Ecklund

@AahanKrish Thanks, does this also grab existing comments on FB and display them on the site automatically?

Aahan Krish

@MichaelEcklund not sure about that. Never used it really. Pulled it from my faves :)

Michael Ecklund

ok, ill try it out. spankies.

Aahan Krish

po.st — how is it even different from addthis? Looks like a blatant copy.

Tom J Nowell

19:21

@AahanKrish its called competition

Aahan Krish

more like GitHub—Bitbucket competition

Rarst

20:41

@AahanKrish share our stuff and be rewarded with advertisement? hilarious :)

Brilliant and hilarious RT @vojtajina: Factorials in Python. So cool. So truth :-D https://gist.github.com/289467

Tweeted by kadamwhite on July 23, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Stack Exchange

21:34

Blog - Stack Exchange: Week 2 of the Summer of Love: Researching Comments

Seth Rogers on July 23, 2012

The quality of the Q&A on Stack Overflow continues to outshine any other on the Internet – thanks to the awesome community. Like any community, unspoken rules eventually become expectations. In the previous post in this series, Joel talks about how the community developed its own set of rules and norms that new recruits simply don’t know about. When a new comer walks into the group and puts her hand up for a high-five and gets chastised by the group because they don’t give high-fives, she walks away embarrassed with head hanging low. That’s unfortunate. …

lkraav

21:49

@Rarst lol at factorial

INT

23:40

Is it possible to replace wp_nav_menu with wp_list_pages with a plugin? ie without going into header and changing it manually. Maybe filter it somehow

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