The Loop

Ademos

00:07

I've never used StackExchange chat before, so I hope PasteBin.com is allowed, for asking about programming questions

Asko

Pastebin or sites alike it are actually embraced

Nobody likes a ton of code in a chat room.

few lines of it however won't kill us, so, don't bother pastebinning 2 lines of code.

Rarst

09:34

@Asko more often on accident than on purpose :)

@toscho nuked. will suspend if happens again.

you need to accomplish something technically complex with WordPress, about which you have no clue? complain that other people are not explaining it good enough! that would fill them with guilt and they will beg you to let them address your needs.

Asko

10:50

I've been thinking about going far out of the box with WordPress themes. Like adding inline editing of content, which allows you to edit/delete/add posts to your site without even visiting wp-admin. That would be one feature I think would have some value.

Perhaps drag and drop menu items right on the site would be neat as well.

Rarst

there are plugins for front-end editing, but no generic all-purpose ones I think. front-end submission is in huge demand, questions about it all the time. drag and drop - some people put it out as major feature in their theme/framework, but it is giant chunk of complexity to achieve relatively "luxury" functionality.

Asko

It is a bit of out of my league, I admit that. But that would make it so much more enjoyable to make.

And if to make such a thing, it would have to be plugin because to serve it per-theme would not be efficient.

Rarst

my opinion, but generic drag and drop likely not even worth starting (unless just for the challenge). there are huge issues with applying something to any theme

Asko

What if it would be function based, for example; user installs the plugin and if the user wants a certain plugin feature in a certain place in a theme, user would place a certain function somewhere. User wants a wordpress custom menu that would be able to be editable on the front-end? wp_plugin_nav_menu( array() );, which essentially would be identical to the core one, difference being that it's ajaxified.

Rarst

that would work, but you are shooting user base - to do this user needs to be willing to modify theme. to do this properly user needs to be willing to create child theme and figure out how to apply modification using it

maybe instead modify admin interface to check/uncheck menu as special on creation

Asko

11:04

That might work. For content editing I guess I'd make a global option which if checked is set to true and otherwise false.

I'm afraid I might be way over my head once it hits me how hard it's really to create something like that as I've never even made a plugin and modifying plugins just isn't comparable.

Rarst

for front end editing scribu's plugin is probably most advanced (that I know of) wordpress.org/extend/plugins/front-end-editor

Asko

Yeah I've seen that before here and there (I read a lot)

Rarst

I don't use it active but have bookmarked... downside it seems to have changed to cutting edge editor component that has crappy browser support (using Opera for a browser is sometimes tough when surrounded by techies that accept "the only true browser which is [insert one of half a dozen]") :)

Asko

Unless your a HTML5 addict, Opera is just fine. In fact, Opera is, in my opinion, very much underrated.

For all I care IE4 can be the only true browser, too. It's not our job to question if it's the right thing to use, but to make things work with it if the market is on it's side.

Rarst

it is. problem is that people have an idea that market share is justification to implement this browser first and that browser year later...

I am glad Google straightened out at least. their browser support sucked big time for many years in everything but most mainstream browsers.

Asko

11:13

Think of this way, would you rather make sites work in 10 different browsers or 100? What happened to Ubuntu since Unity? Hundreds of Ubuntu's came. It's a mess.

If everyone who'd think that a certain browser is not good enough would make a new browser, I'd just quit or stop caring.

Rarst

yep, this just feeds diversity. browser X adds some proprietary feature that looks shiny. developers run to implement it. now other browsers can ignore it (and lose out), adopt it (and bow down to competitor) or invent their own shiny feature.... been going for yeeeeears

"best viewed in Internet Explorer" is a hilarious joke, "only works in Google Chrome" is hip and cool

what's the difference? :)

Asko

IE10 is not that bad actually

they make a mistake by judging IE from negative point due to it's past reputation.

that being said, I still bloody hate it.

Rarst

offtopic... Firebug UI location can be switched to the right... no windows mess... bliss

Asko

Firebug ... haven't used it for 2 years.

Or 1.5, not sure really

Rarst

what are you using?

Asko

11:26

At some point I realized that I write good enough general Javascript, HTML & CSS that I don't really need debugging. I only test everything 10 times over for work I do for clients and that had for at least 7 or so last projects no issues.

Rarst

well, if you are the only one writing the code... not the case for me :)

Asko

I love working with teams, but I've just have not had the chance to do so for quite some time. Things have in some weird way formed into a one-man wolf pack for me.

Rarst

I've been only working in WP development for a bit under year :) I switched line of work several times by now (always with computers but very different areas)

Asko

You adopt quite fast judging from your reputation in that case.

Rarst

11:42

I've started my (current) blog in 2008 on WP and gradually got into internals. two something years into it I got interesting enough to get offered full time WP dev opportunity

Asko

I tried to quit anything tech related some time ago so I took a break for a year and did something radically different, but as it seems I feel that there's something missing from my life when I'm not creating something and there's not a lot of things I'm good at when it comes to being creative.

Rarst

I think it has a lot to do with WP going through explosive growth. hobbyists get sucked into professional realms, just because demand is large.

Asko

Yeah, in ten years we'll be the veterans who had big screen machines for general purpose computing. Judging by the stats, it's all going mobile and internet will only be used more for getting information, not entertainment simply because entertainment is more and more application based.

I don't think I could ever get use to creating things for such small screens, it just doesn't feel natural.

Rarst

nah... mobile is for running around. and between that people still come to home or office and properly sized screens :)

Asko

now, yes, in 10 years? It's iPads they come to.

Rarst

11:49

who the hell knows what it will be in 10 years? :)

modenr tablet is amazingly close to computer (something past tablet generation could not achieve in convenient size/mass margins) and with Windows going ARM that will blur completely

Asko

Well, 10 years ago there were black and white phones, now they have computers that fit in your pocket and a phone is just a tiny part of that computer. 10 years to the future, I'm scared.

Rarst

and tablets hardly have small screen sizes... mine is 1280x800 and judging by CES coverage in a year it will be obsolete among 1080p screens

Asko

I just don't like the fact that they try to make keyboards disappear. The one's that you touch in all reality, that is.

Rarst

I doubt keyboards are going away. no decent replacement. on-screen keyboards got decent enough, but it will remain second-grade until shape-morph tech is improved

Asko

I have an Android device which I use only for picking up when someone calls me. For me, that is wasted money. Currently it's all about the things that you think you would need and hence buy, but don't really need. I enjoy the fact that I have my email on the go with me, but that's about the only thing that is a plus on a smartphone for me.

Rarst

11:55

I have basic Android phone (don't call much) and tablet that does see plenty of use

Asko

I travel with my lap-top, which soon is called old-school I guess.

Rarst

my "main" feature in smartphone/tables is map!

I never got into notebooks... own one which I bought for programming courses and then pretty much gave away to father. maybe something usable for my taste will come out of that ultrabook trend

Asko

I don't think I've ever even used maps for anything besides testing it.

Well, the only reason I have a notebook is because some days I feel like coding in a restaurant, some days out in the open. I don't work in a office, so working get's stressful when I always do it at home.

I also don't see the benefit of a desktop PC. It can do as much as a notebook and is not portable, sounds to me like a shittier (pardon my french) version of notebook.

Rarst

desktop (screen aside which you can get for notebook) = packs more hardware for less bucks

Asko

Ah yes, price. That is indeed a deal changer.

Rarst

12:04

I am not from US or around :) I can buy whatever in recent years, but that's not when my habits got formed

Asko

I bought a notebook that could run the latest games, simply because I love gaming and would be efficient as a work machine as well and, being a detail freak like I am, would also look beautiful. For that money I could of gotten 2 or even 3 decent desktop PC's.

Rarst

my gaming went to zero in recent years... bored or burnt out or something

Asko

Maybe my fondness for notebooks is because the last desktop PC I had was in the Windows 95 era.

Don't know, I currently have GTA IV in a tab, Prototype as well and I don't even bother closing them when I'm coding or chatting because it just doesn't resources.

Oh and I'm not from the US either.

Rarst

my previous PC was geeky Mini-ITX build... was getting too slow for work (now that I work from home) so scrapped if and put together new desktop recently :) quite enjoy it... enough RAM! :)

Asko

Yea I have little to no idea what's under the covers, something happens, I call my friend who loves getting wasted and then fixing PC's.

Rarst

12:13

I had only been using computers I put together myself since forever

Sisir

12:37

hey guys..

Rarst

hiya

Sisir

hows everyones new year going?

Rarst

12:53

still buried in work...

Sisir

story of our life.. :(

Sisir

13:12

0

Q: Unexpected results with conditionals inside template part

Scenario: I have a template part loop-product.php which i am calling from home.php, taxonomy.php and a page template template-products.php. Inside that template part loop-product.php file i am setting the number of columns by checking is_home() conditionals. Problem: The conditional works fine ...

Rarst

@Sisir hard to say without hands on it... is_home is not set for query being something, but by exclusion (query NOT being something). so hard to guess what goes wrong

where is exactly page that uses template on site?

Sisir

13:30

on the page template i used query_posts() and inside the while loop added the get_template_part()

Rarst

I have no idea what you are doing, but if you are using query_posts() that is likely your problem :)

Sisir

i will upload the page template code on the pastebin and update the Q

Rarst

as far as I am concerned that is what Codex should say about it - Yes, this is your Problem.

Sisir

pastebin.com/CzRgzzVF

Rarst

if I was not bold enough above - don't use query_posts() :)

Sisir

13:37

okey :) let me try with get_posts()

Sisir

13:57

on the homepage i called it via query_posts() though..

Rarst

don't use query_posts()

Asko

presswork.me/features

Now that looks awesome

Best of all, if I'm not mistaking, it's available for free.

Rarst

saw the site but hadn't tried it so far

Asko

I'm going to start testing that out as soon as the clock hit's 5

Asko

15:00

That Johnny English guy ... it doesn't pan out. If such a guy would to exist, he'd either be a dead character or an insane one locked away. He can't be a MI7 agent.

Rarst

what?

Asko

That was as off-topic as one could get I suppose, but it was my comment on the movie "Johnny English Reborn". Well, the trailer of it anyway.

Rarst

...

Asko

That reminds me .. what do you think of WordPress when it has 5000+ posts? I have heard complains from here and there that it get's very, very unstable and slow with that amount of content.

I mean, I've seen WordPress sites being very slow with even just a couple of hundred posts, so I'm not sure it's entirely up to WordPress, but I'd still like an opinion on the matter.

Rarst

17:15

@Asko no experience. really matter of DB / hardware... some people run hundreds of thousands.

AlxVallejo

21:31

Hey guys

Question

Do you think the only way to become a professional WordPress developer is to build stuff from scratch?

Because I've been looking for a search plugin that will filter based off multiple categories across custom post types and I have come up short after 72 hours of searching! (or so)

Gotta run, looking forward to your response

Asko

Some learn by taking existing things apart, some learn by creating things to take apart. Choose your method ;)

Sisir

i am more then one year on wordpress developing and still feel like a baby..

Asko

WordPress ain't that hard. PHP Frameworks ain't that hard. Ideas are hard.

I personally prefer Python over PHP, but there is no WordPress that runs on Python, so here I am.

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