Just to clarify, these "forms" are perceived by the eye or are the actual "forms" part of the interpretation? Do we see objects with our eyes and our brain recognizes them or does our brain form the actual image we perceive?

They are perceived by the brain. While we do not know the full detail, we basically take the raw sensory information, maybe preprocess it, and then try to match it to known schema that we've compiled. So like hats, dogs, boats, etc.

yes I know. Just checking we're on the same page. So that means, nothing which exists nouminally, can be perceived. That includes the range of electromagnetic radiation we call "visible light"!

I suppose we perceive these things, but indirectly. Everything we experience we experience through pre and post processing in the brain. I wish I could remember the quote, but someone talking about virtual reality basically stated that we already live in a virtual reality. We only have indirect information. Sensory information is generated by something, enters our sensory organs, is transferred to the brain, processed, and only then becomes "evident" in our consciousness.

Added some additional elements to the answer and cleaned it up a bit. Let me know if it's still confusing or if you have more questions.

it was David Hume! "Nothing is ever directly present to the mind in perception except perceptual appearance.

That wasn't the quote I was referring to. I think it was someone on NPR, talking about virtual reality and the risk of being "sucked in" and ignoring "real life."

well I say we don't perceive these things at all. Detection of stimuli by our various sense organs is autonomous. Controlled by the subconscious. We only perceive the brains interpretation of the stimuli. There is no perception at the point of detection.

Mostly agree, but this should probably be moved to chat if it gets any longer. We are only aware of what the brain has determined exists, based on sensory information, pre/post processing, etc. I do consider this a perception of the thing, at least when the brain is functioning properly, but a very indirect one.

sorry, I think we're literally talking about different things. I'm referring specifically nouminal things being imperceptible . I fully agree that we do perceive phenomenal things. Unless you disagree, there is no need to respond.

When our senses, and processing of sensory information, are working properly, the phenomenal and nouminal worlds align. So you're perceiving both, through it's the latter through the former.

That's where everyone gets it wrong. We never perceive any aspect of the nouminal world. It's not as if the eyes see shapes and the brain fills in colours. Every single thing you see around you is the phenomenal world.

The nouminal world looks nothing like the reality we perceive subjectively

If I throw a ball at you, do you duck?

Obviously. In the phenomenal world my conscious mind perceives it and instructs my nouminal body to avoid the object which is approaching my actual body in objective reality. That's the whole point of vision. It allows us to interact with the outside world.

If I threw a ball, and we admit that the ball and the throwing are nouminal, then you responded to a nouminal situation, which means that you perceived it.

That's why it's called indirect reality.