Room for Xander and anongoodnurse

anongoodnurse

00:06

Hmm, I'm guessing the time difference might slow things down a bit.

Xander

07:29

Go ahead with your question.

Actually since we do have that time difference thing. I also wanted to ask you a question meanwhile.

Your attitude towards me doesn't stem from that parenting answer that was pro-abortion I hope? From all I'm hearing about the US and people's irrational stance on abortion, I really hope that was not your trigger (although I doubt you will admit to it).

anongoodnurse

13:44

I asked you if you would like to start with a question, not the other way around.

Actually, your entire comment is interesting, and definitely shows some problems with polite communication, which I was hoping this would be.

First, I did not know (or rather remember) that you were the author of that answer, so no, my attitude does not stem from that. Calling an anti-abortion stand (while not knowing where I stand) "irrational", calling it a "trigger" for me, and implying right off the bat that I wouldn't admit it if it were are impolite. You have a defensive and unkind bent, I think, which will make civil discourse difficult if not impossible.

My problem with your answer encouraging the OP to think about abortion was that the OP didn't want to do that. But, overstepping boundaries seems to be something you feel entitled to do (one your questions here were clearly about that).

Just FYI, although I am a Christian, I am very much pro-choice. So to me, abortion is neither irrational not a trigger.

If you have a question for me, please ask. If not, we may as well end this here. Assumptions are fruitless, and calling my honesty into question right off the bat makes this... unlikely to resolve much, doesn't it? I mean, what answer that you disagree with will you think is truthful?

Xander

14:33

My question is quite simple. What is your problem with me?

Xander

14:49

Your replies to me so far have been quite aggressive. I joined a couple of SEs with this account while I have some free time during on sabbatical and wanted to see if I can help. The fact that I mentioned my profession was possibly a mistake since I rather enjoy adding questions from my person life and see what people of different backgrounds think about them. It's not necessary that I need help resolving them but it's quite interesting to me to explore people's thinking.

anongoodnurse

15:02

What is my problem with you... It is my problem, and it unfortunately spills over to you.

I'm a medical professional. When I observe another medical professional behaving in an unprofessional manner, I feel it reflects badly on us all. That's my problem.

Xander

Could you provide an example?

anongoodnurse

Embracing your inner snob.

Is that a good thing for a psychiatrist to do?

Xander

Being a snob and being a good psychiatrist are two different things. I cannot the reasoning behind that being a hindrance.

anongoodnurse

"Hi. I don't have anything in common with you low-lifes, but I have to work with you. So I'll give a party, but really I don't like you and I don't care."

No, being a snob and being a good psychiatrist are mutually exclusive.

Xander

My profession allowed me both financial and social status but that has never affected my practice or my other professional activities.

anongoodnurse

15:06

A good psychiatrist has insight into people and empathy. You seem to have neither. And that's my problem with you, right there in a nutshell.

Xander

You're assuming

anongoodnurse

Also, a good psychiatrist doesn't start a conversation by accusing the other party of being a liar.

Which you did at the start of this conversation.

Three faulty assumptions.

Xander

Could you quote that bit please?

anongoodnurse

Anti-abortionist, triggered, and unlikely to admit it if I were.

>Your attitude towards me doesn't stem from that parenting answer that was pro-abortion I hope? From all I'm hearing about the US and people's irrational stance on abortion, I really hope that was not your trigger (although I doubt you will admit to it).

Xander

That is my analysis of your written text in relation to me. Is it correct? Probably not but I did want to provoke you and it succeeded so we can get to the bottom of things

anongoodnurse

15:08

Unless by "good psychiatrist", you mean, "good at handing out prescriptions."

Anyone with the right degree can do that.

So what is your definition of a good psychiatrist?

Because that is precicely the root of my problem with you.

In my narrow world view, a good psychiatrist has insight into people and empathy. And my problem with you is that you claim to be a psychiatrist, but seem to have neither.

Which results in a paradox for me:

Either you are not what you claim, which bothers me personally,

or you are not a good psychiatrist, which bothers me as a member of the medical profession.

If you didn't claim to be a psychiatrist, I assure you, I would not hold your "flaws" (as I see them) against you.

If someone says the best thing to do to cure schizophrenia is to take St. John's wort, it would merit a contradiction, but not my personal dislike. Not everyone is a doctor.

If a psychiatrist said it...

Xander

Then it seems your perception of me and possibly the psychiatric profession is a bit clouded. All I can see from our conversation is inferiority complex. Did you fail your medical exams? Couldn't afford to go to medical school?

anongoodnurse

...I would question if that person was indeed a psychiatrist.

Ah hominem attacks is the best you can do here?

Xander

It's not an attack

anongoodnurse

I think you have proven me correct just now.

Xander

I'm trying to figure you out

anongoodnurse

15:17

I don't really believe you have the ability to.

But go ahead and make more ad hominems if it helps you.

So let's pretend I'm in the hot seat:

Did you fail your medical exams?

No.

I'm a doctor, so eventually succeeded.

Xander

A doctor of?

anongoodnurse

I was in the upper 20% of my class and all of my exams.

Medicine.

Couldn't afford to go to medical school?

No, I could not. So I took out loans, like most of my colleagues, and went anyway.

Xander

West coast college I imagine?

anongoodnurse

Why would you possibly imagine that?

Do I have an àccent?

Xander

Nah, that was a jab at your education - keep up

anongoodnurse

15:21

Why would you want to jab at me? What purpose does that serve?

Xander

Fun?

anongoodnurse

Is that how you get patients to talk to you? (Or maybe that's the only time they will talk to you.)

Xander

That makes no sense whatsoever

anongoodnurse

Doesn't it?

Xander

Indeed it doesn't

anongoodnurse

15:23

So, you're a bit slow, too?

(Sorry to descend to your level. That was unkind.)

(And unprofessional.)

Xander

Oh that's OK, I don't mind

anongoodnurse

The thing is, I really don't think I'm talking to a professional.

Xander

That's unfortunate

anongoodnurse

I think - in fact, in light of this conversation - I'm pretty sure you're not a professional, perhaps of any kind.

Xander

This conversation has been rather interesting and has given me quite a bit of insight into your psyche.

anongoodnurse

15:26

So, if I'm correct, that is the crux of the matter for me.

Haha. Do you think that's how psychiatrists speak to people?

I dunno, maybe where you are, it is.

Maybe you're Freudian.

In which case, you'd be a bad psychiatrist in my book as well.

But no matter, I think we're done here.

Xander

I agree

Thanks for the conversation. At least I know with what I am dealing now.

room mode changed to Gallery: anyone may enter, but only approved users can talk

anongoodnurse

Hmm, at the beginning of this "conversation", I stated,

>You have a defensive and unkind bent, I think, which will make civil discourse difficult if not impossible."

How interesting that I was correct.

Xander

Guess we're not done then.

Let's sum up then

anongoodnurse

Final thoughts. That's all.

Xander

Thank you for the insight then doctor!

I wanted to save the transcript

anongoodnurse

15:35

@Catija, @HDE226868, I had a "conversation" in a private room with Xander. I would suggest - no, I request - that you have a read. The conflict was not resolved; it intensified. Seeing why may give you some insights into both of us, and provide some background for (hopefully few) potential flags. Thanks.

Catija

@anongoodnurse Private private or gallery?

anongoodnurse

Gallery.

I want the room open to anyone, please.

Catija

So you want it made public or you just want everyone to be able to read it?

anongoodnurse

Oh, sorry, readalbe by anyone. If someone else wants to discuss, I can do that wherever.

Catija

No worries! Just wanted to clarify before I poked at it.

anongoodnurse

15:38

If someone wants to call me out on my attitude, I would welcome it being done here in chat.

apaul

@anongoodnurse Link?

Catija

@anongoodnurse Where is it homed? Can you just link to it? I can't find it.

♦ Room for Xander and anongoodnurse

It's on SO... which means we can't move it here.

Xander

Gallery doesn't mean you can't read it, please go ahead.

apaul

@anongoodnurse @Xander sorry for suggesting a chat... Figured that you two would come to some sort of peaceable resolution.

Xander

@apaul It's quite sad yeah.

anongoodnurse

15:42

@Catija - chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/67907/…

Does that work?

I just assumed it was "homed" here.

@apaul - chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/67907/…

@apaul - did that work?

apaul

@anongoodnurse I got it, reading now.

anongoodnurse

@apaul - Not at all, don't apologize. It's my preferred way to resolve conflict. It was a good suggestion; if the outcome wasn't good, not your problem.

Tinkeringbell

@gerrit That was exactly my reaction when I first came here and saw @NVZ do that... I've since learned to like it :)

In this case, I replied to it so the remark was linked to the question

Sometimes, I reply because I want to make a witty remark--> witty remarks shouldn't be made in the comments underneath the questions, so sometimes a witty remark is made here ;)

apaul

@anongoodnurse I've requested access to chat there, seemed more appropriate.

HDE 226868

@anongoodnurse Thank you. Reading now.

anongoodnurse

15:57

@apaul If you have advice for me, I'm a big girl. You can do it here.

Tinkeringbell

@anongoodnurse @Xander Just FYI: I'm reading it as well... ;) Don't know if I want to get involved though....

anongoodnurse

@Tinkeringbell The more, the merrier.

apaul

@anongoodnurse Honestly I think you're right. Most shrinks I've known can't help but default into their training when they have problems in their personal life. It's honestly annoying as hell, but they usually can't help it.

anongoodnurse

@apaul You mean analysis? Not understanding your comment.

apaul

@anongoodnurse Beside manner, analysis, responding to questions with questions and so on. In my experience/opinion it's annoying, but it becomes a part of who they are as a person.

anongoodnurse

16:04

@apaul Ad hominem attacks (Did I flunk my exams?) is not a professional way to communicate. And certainly not the way any psychiatrist I ever worked with spoke to their patients.

Tinkeringbell

@Xander Well, that was an interesting read... Here I go again with my very direct, very Dutch way of asking, so be prepared :P

Your reactions in that chatroom come across to me as very much avoiding the issue that is bothering @anongoodnurse.. the doubt that she's talking to a real psychiatrist... Although it's a weird thing to ask, and might raise your bristles, I don't think she meant any harm (having seen her around longer than today). Why can't you just alleviate her worries?

@anongoodnurse what would you like to know of @Xander that could alleviate your worries?

(I'm so going to burn my fingers here because I'm not following my own advice interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/3097/…) :P

apaul

@anongoodnurse To be fair, you're not a patient, and I've certainly seen shrinks behave badly. But, I suspect that you might be right about your suspicion there.

anongoodnurse

@Tinkeringbell As I said in the chat room, it really is my problem. I have a problem with dishonesty, and I have a problem with holding the medical profession to a cetain standard.

@Tinkeringbell It is my problem, and the first one spills over into everything I do.

What would solve this for me (but not for anyone else, I suspect) was if he admitted the truth (he is not a shrink, but id pretending to be one), or that he conduct himself in a manner expected of a certain profession.

:40874323 OK. A concrete question...

Tinkeringbell

What is this 'expected manner' for you?

anongoodnurse

It would have to be spontaneous, so that googling the answer wouldn't be an option.

Tinkeringbell

16:11

@anongoodnurse Think about it for a while ;) And get @Xander to agree on doing this... I don't want to force him into anything

anongoodnurse

@Tinkeringbell - that profession is known for insight into people. I don't know, it's everything.

Tinkeringbell

@Xander I hope I'm not giving you the impression that I'm ganging up with @anongoodnurse here.... I'm just trying to get this resolved... If you could give some input as well, that would be appreciated!

anongoodnurse

On another site, the OP stated she wanted to have the baby. His entire answer consisted of trying to get her to have abortion.

Psychiatrists don't do that. It's against their professional code of conduct in the US.

Tinkeringbell

@anongoodnurse Okay, thanks. That helps me understand the problem here a little bit better...

@gerrit I promise this is usually a funnier room and better place to be! ;)

anongoodnurse

@Tinkeringbell But it's not just that (I had forgotten that.) There is evidence all over the place.

Andy

16:15

room topic changed to Room for Xander and anongoodnurse: (no tags)

room parent site changed to interpersonal.stackexchange.com

anongoodnurse

Anyway, until there's a question for me, I'll keep quiet for now.

Thanks.

@Andy - Thank you. Where was this room?

Andy

It had SO as a parent site, but it was on the SE chat servers.

Tinkeringbell

@Xander? Why are you 'not acting like a psychiatrist'? I can imagine going against 'a patients wishes' might be against a professional code of conduct (am I phrasing that right @anongoodnurse?)

I myself can imagine SE and your psychiatry being 2 different things for you?

anongoodnurse

@Andy Thanks for moving it to where it belongs. :)

Andy

You're welcome

Xander

16:20

Oops, this chat is one fire. OK lemme see if I can reply to some of this

Regarding the whole abortion thing. It seems we have different opinions on the matter. In Switzerland there's no law prohibiting psychiatrists to advice a patient to get an abortion. I cannot (or really care to) confirm that it's different in the US. And it was never stated that I am her therapist or my profession in that thread, it was a post from a random stranger on a QA board

Tinkeringbell

Good. Remember: @anongoodnurse's doubts aren't because she's against abortion/because abortion is illegal where she's from....

As I've read it, her worries were caused by 'a psychiatrist' telling somebody that did want to keep a baby, to have an abortion anyways.... So you've kept your profession out of that (good, IMO). Where and when exactly did you disclose your profession?

anongoodnurse

@Xander You had claimed earlier to be a psychiatrist.

Mithrandir

@Xander don't tell people something as 'a random stranger on the internet' that you'd be ashamed of being associated with you IRL

relevant

Xander

@Mithrandir I stand by it

Regarding her doubts against me, they seem to stem from the fact that medical professionals cannot have personal faults. The fact that a psychiatrist cannot be a snob is a joke to me.

anongoodnurse

@Xander If you are a psychiatrist, my mother is the sugar plum fairy. Now, mind you, my mother might very well be the sugar plum fairy, so I'm not actually accusing you of being an imposter.

Xander

16:34

@anongoodnurse You can believe what you like honestly. I will not bother with you any more.

apaul

@anongoodnurse lol well said.

anongoodnurse

@Xander That's one small piece of a larger picture. The fact that you embrace your inner snob as the accepted answer. The fact that you transgress boundaries. Routinely. The fact that our conversation was defensive and evasive and did nothing to bring about conflict resolution, which was your goal (or so you claimed at the beginning of the chat.)

apaul

@Xander ... and haven't made any attempt to demonstrate or defend your professional status/ability ...

Mithrandir

Maybe it would be a good idea for you two to either take it to your room, @anongoodnurse and @Xander, or just drop it. This conversation doesn't appear to be heading in a constructive direction.

anongoodnurse

@Xander I am a medical professional, and I assure you I have many personal faults. Which is why I liked @HDE226868's comment about people who've made mistakes (on the star board.)

@Mithrandir We did start there. It went just as badly, which is why nothing got resolved there. And you're probably right.

So I'll stop.

Tinkeringbell

16:44

We've stopped? Okay :)

Mithrandir

← 73 messages moved from The Awkward Silence

room mode changed to Public: anyone may enter and talk

anongoodnurse

@Tinkeringbell We've moved! We're having a garage sale to lessen the load. Are there any comments you'd like to buy? ;)

Tinkeringbell

@anongoodnurse Hmmm... I'm sorry, I'll have to wait until the next paycheck arrives! :P

anongoodnurse

@Tinkeringbell :)

NVZ

18:30

Crazy discussion here.

I don't have the full picture, but since I'm here, I have to share my opinions, which is... "meh".

;)

anongoodnurse

19:18

@NVZ What, may I ask is your profession? If it's not too personal. I'll whip up an analogy for you, and if you still feel it's "meh", that will help me a bit.

♦ Room for Xander and anongoodnurse

Transcript for

♦ Room for Xander and anongoodnurse