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18:00
we can mention SE but we can't say that page is endorsed by the site or officially affiliated
@Krazer Which, putting it in the title, kinda is.
You don't need to be affiliated with something to advertise for them.
@MadaraUchiha See Laura's comment at meta.anime.stackexchange.com/questions/426/…
Just wanted to drop a quick note saying if you're creating this "unofficial" community identity because of traditions in anime culture, that's great and carry on. If you're doing it because you think you have to in order to comply with our trademark guidance on any social media pages you create, that's not exactly true. You can title pages something like "Anime & Manga Stack Exchange Community" and otherwise make it clear that the pages are not run by SE the company, and that's sufficient. — Laura Feb 20 at 18:50
^ For lazy people.
Ah. I didn't know that.
18:01
@Eric thank you
does this mean that maybe we should rename our existing pages?
plus, if we put "unofficial" in the title we can make the club looking more underground :P
true for now less call ourselves "Anime & Manga Stack Exchange Community" or something similiar
until we find something better
@Krazer I think that one is good, yeah
Is Stack Exchange one or two words? I'll change the G+ page now to whichever.
18:03
@Krazer If I were a passerby, that name would be a turn off because it's too long.
Not to mention that "Stack Exchange"?!?! WTF is that?
@Mysticial sooooo, SE?
We need to adopt ourselves a decent name
I'm almost tempted to call it "Anime & Manga Exchange Community". But that's misleading.
@JNat That's even worse because nobody will know what it stands for.
Much like gaming is Arqade, and judaism is Mi Yodea
Anime & Manga is far far too general to actually have a chance with SEO
18:05
@Eric that's not very good :P
@Mysticial I've opened a club on MAL called "~*Insignificant classmates & background characters*~ (IS~BG)". After I created it, some of the admin add some pieces to be longer.
@MadaraUchiha any suggestions?
@MadaraUchiha The only community-suggested name was downvoted on the thread.
Still cooking, I'll sleep over it.
@Eric I don't think it's a great name though.
18:06
ok, so for now the name stays the same
@Mysticial The suggested one? Me either.
It needs to be a name that'll leave little room for thought on the subject of the site
it's not very original imo
We can have ppl leave proposals in the social room
Should we move onto tags? I think we've exhausted the discussion on this topic for today.
@Krazer there? or should we make a meta?
18:07
@JNat We have a meta for name proposals already.
hmm
Well, it's for the "unofficial community name", but still.
@Eric for the community.
Before closing the topic: should I create the MAL club and invite someone of people here if registered on MAL?
@Eric yeah, what @MadaraUchiha proposed was a name for the site itself
@chirale I say not yet
18:08
@chirale lets hold off on that for now
Then yes, meta post.
@Eric I think generating more questions and traffic in general is also part of point 1. Social pages are just a small part of that IMO.
Lets conclude the social discussion here, okay?
@LoganM Right. I almost forgot.
@Krazer yes, do you want to sum up?
18:09
I agree.
@Krazer please sum up
Summary:
1. More interesting non-Q&A content (news, trailers, show-tell) to help generate discussion
2. Post interesting and memorable Q&A on FB, G+
3. Figure out better community name
3
did I miss anything?
@Krazer no, I don't think so
Seems right to me.
Marking...
ok, next up, according to @Krazer's list, is tag review
18:14
@JNat Before we move on to #2, there's something else related to #1 that I want to point out.
@LoganM go ahead
If we want to generate search traffic, it seems to me like the most searched things for any particular show are usually going to be the endings. Plot holes in the middle tend to get forgotten, but ones at the end are memorable. So we should make sure to have good questions and answers like that as possible.
Plot holes in the middle might work out for currently-airing shows.
@LoganM Noted.
So I'd suggest we look through all the anime with strange inexplicable endings and make some questions out of them. I'll try to do this based on my list, but others should do the same.
@Mysticial Yes, but that traffic will only last until the next episode airs. According to @Krazer the Clannad and Code Geass ending questions brought in lots of traffic long after the shows finished.
18:17
@LoganM what do we do about some series that are anime or manga exculsive?
like with Negima
@Krazer Why would that matter?
@Krazer Just ask it if it's confusing, even if it's manga. It might not bring in as much traffic, but we still need good questions.
or ones that are down right bad (poorly written) or have little to no sourceable resource to drawl canonical conclusions? '
@LoganM Questions that seems to attract more views and are more interesting to me are not in-universe but those about industry and cultural aspects.
2
@chirale Those tend to be more difficult to come up with :P
18:21
@chirale Personally I think we have a lot of those already. And they're often harder to answer.
@Krazer those tend to be closed as off topic
And they are more prone to being open-ended.
@Krazer and it's the big problem here imo
@chirale we can put in some more effort to help them fit the scope. I'll keep a closr eye out for those questions.
I'm not a fan of most of those questions. Good ones are hard to come up with, but it's very easy to come up with bad questions like that, and they'll still get lots of upvotes. Plus at some point we stop being a site about anime & manga Q&A and start being one about Japanese culture Q&A.
18:23
@chirale adding to what @Krazer said, we will debate here old question review, so if there is any particular ones you find where wrongly closed, raise the issue
are there any other suggestions or concerns? I don't want to keep you all for too long.
That's basically all I wanted to say so we can move on to tag review unless anyone else has comments on this.
Guys, we're a recreational site.
@Krazer thank you, I think this is the right approach @JNat I remember that one about cosplay but I have to search for it
Not all answers here will have factual answers, or definite proof
18:24
Moving on to topic #2: Tag Review
@Krazer go for it
on the topic of genre tags such as , should we have them?
@Krazer be specific
@Krazer I think not
shounen, jousei, senin, shoujo, etc.
18:27
@Krazer Potentially it's okay if it's not used as a general tag for all lolicon series, but only for questions specific to the genre. But it has the potential to be abused drastically, so I say probably not.
@Krazer , yes. , no.
@Krazer As with all meta tags everything. Think carefully about how it will affect SEO.
@Mysticial It doesn't seem like a meta tag to me.
@JNat shounen and jousei are demographics, lolicon is different
I'm willing to forgo something that "sounds" reasonable if it will help SEO.
18:28
@chirale they are also genres with their wn distinct styles
would keeping these tags mean that every question about a particular anime would be tagged with the genre?
@JNat absolutely not.
If that happened, we should kill those tags immediately.
@JNat Definitely not. That will destroy SEO. Among other things...
@LoganM exactly. Then why should we have them? for question regarding the genre itself?
@JNat Yes
18:29
@JNat yes
@JNat Yes. For instance, this one:
if that is the case, shouldn't a tag be in order then?
@Krazer they usually take the name from the demographic of the magazine that collect them
But we'd have to actively enforce that.
7
Q: How did the lolicon anime/manga originate?

WashuI always wondered how did the japanese got the idea of making animated productions including little girls and the obsession with them. When did it start? Was the idea originated in japan? Was it welcomed by the actual anime public?

18:30
@LoganM I'm okay with on that.
@Mysticial Me too. The problem is whether we want to exist in the system at all though.
But I have no strong preference either way.
@LoganM I don't see a point in it existing atm
@LoganM How many potential questions are there that could use ?
I think that a tag that could encompass all genre-related questions would be preferable to a tag per genre
18:31
If it's small, then get rid of it.
@Krazer Agreed, but I also don't see any harm in it existing as long as it doesn't get misused.
What's the problem with having small tags if the tags are completely valid?
There's always a first question in every tag.
@JNat I actually think making it more specific is better. Don't forget that the tag is appended to the title. So if it's specific, it'll push them higher up on Google.
@JNat That would be really confusing and it would never get used in practice.
@Mysticial @LoganM ok, point taken
18:33
in the lolicon case one can be avoid to read a question on that topic for his/her own reason
so the tag can be useful as a tag regarding more generally pornography
Here's another example that could have a genre tag (BTW should this really be closed?):
7
Q: Why are the shounen lead protagonists usually shown to be stupid?

Deidara-senpaione-piece's Luffy, naruto's Naruto, fairy-tail's Natsu, reborn's Tsuna, dragonball's Goku are all showed to be simple-minded and foolish. Why is it so common to depict the lead protagonist to be so stupid?

some of the tropes question might be better if they were tagged with the genre
@LoganM At the size we are right now, it's fine to leave it open. But if we ever get big, it'll be a mess...
@LoganM we'll get to that in the questions review
Something like that wouldn't survive on SO.
18:35
@Mysticial We aren't SO though
@Mysticial SO is a terrible role model
3
@LoganM lol
As much as I hate to, I agree with Logan. lol
@JNat He wasn't kidding.
SO is a great site, but not a good one to base ourselves on.
18:36
@MadaraUchiha yeah, I got it. I just found it funny anyway :P
@LoganM Yes I do realize that.
I don't think that genre tags will be a good idea, especially in the shonen / shojo cases
Which reminds me of that episode I had against Robert early in the beta...
@Mysticial which episode?
We'll need to actively enforce people to not use them on practically every question on an anime with that genere
18:37
@Mysticial which one?
@JNat The one where I suggested we allow these borderline NC questions to attract users. And he basically shot me down like it was a personal insult.
@Mysticial Gots links?
In short, he said "Anime will have no trouble getting a user-base". Well, I can say 3 months later that's he couldn't be anymore wrong.
@Mysticial I don't think this is borderline NC at all. It was misunderstood by a lot of people and closed too quickly.
gimme a sec to find his comment.
18:39
@Mysticial we should avoid preemptive optimization as hell, you're right
What he's asking about is a perfectly legitimate anime trope. Hence voted to reopen.
well, ok. so we keep genre tags and keep a watchful eye out for misuse?
Crazy. I was with you until the "they may crucial to bring in users" bit. Puhleeze... This site will have no trouble attracting an early audience. The worst thing that can happen here is drive towards "we'll worry about quality later." A new site is evaluated for having a strong start with quality content, much much much much much much more so than having the largest possible audience. If these questions will harm the site long-term, don't allow them. You're here to build a strong foundation now... for the long run. Don't fall for these games just to pump up your numbers — bad idea. — Robert Cartaino Dec 13 '12 at 0:07
@Mysticial personally, I'm not very active here because most of the question are in-universe
@chirale what kinds of questions would you prefer?
18:41
@chirale Honestly I can't disagree with that more. I think if anything we have too many out-of-universe questions. I counted 10 on the main page right now.
I agree with Logan here. We don't have enough in-universe questions.
@JNat I say hold off on it for now unless there is an immediate need
Ideally, the vast majority of the questions are in-universe.
Scifi which I think is our best role model rarely gets any. And I don't even think they're on topic on Arqade
@Krazer about industry and cultural aspects of anime and manga, something you cannot find in forums without browsing thousands of threads
@Krazer something at the level of some specials on AnimeNewsNetwork
18:44
@Krazer did you have any other issue related to tags?
@Krazer something like this as an answer (shorter): animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-05
Industry questions are good but unsustainable IMO. There's only so much info that's available, and we don't want very technical questions. We haven't had as much difficulty so far because we're still small, but as we expand it'll be harder and harder to sustain a proportional amount of content of this type without duplicating a lot of it.
@chirale this is an interesting post but I think we lack the professional expertise for this
something like this might be doable: animenewsnetwork.com/the-list/2013-03-16
@LoganM right, but these questions can attract more per-question visit. They haven't to be a lot.
@Krazer then the problem is that we are almost all enthusiasts and not in the industry: we should attract a professional audience as well
@chirale I'd like that a lot, but it's easier said than done
18:49
yes, sadly, it's paradoxical
Did we decide anything on ?
@LoganM keep imo
I don't see a need for it atm
@Krazer Same
@Krazer agree
18:50
We only have one question that could use it.
and then shonen?
@Krazer I can agree with that. But other genres could generate more.
@LoganM I'm inclined to agree with you for the shounen tropes question
@LoganM are there any other genre related questions other than those 2?
7
Q: Why are the male love-interests of shoujo often portrayed to be top scorers?

kuwalyIn shoujo anime and manga such as Vampire Knight, Special A, and Kaichou wa Maid-sama, the male love interests (or Zero in the case of Vampire Knight) are shown to be top scorers in the class. Is there a known reason for this to be so common?

That's the only other one I remember.
18:52
more generally I'm concerned about how we describe demographics as genres
@LoganM you're talking about anime taxonomy?
@chirale In America, gender targeted television is fairly concrete. Lifetime and Oxygen are stations specifically for women, so most men will avoid those channels like the plague. But Japan, where cute reigns supreme, the division tends to be more ambiguous.
@chirale Under generes
> Genres: Action, Adventure, Comedy, Drama, Fantasy, Shounen, Super Power
18:54
@LoganM yes, in this way: Action, Adventure, Comedy, Drama, Fantasy, Shounen, Super Power
E.g., ichigo mashimaro is a slice of life anime featuring four very cute little girls, yet it’s seinen. azumanga daioh, another cute anime starring a bunch of high school girls, is also a seinen. Does that mean only men aged 15-40 should watch these shows?
I'm pretty sure we have to avoid almost all those categories as tags
I wouldn't suggest genre tags if the genre also exists broadly outside anime/manga.
So for non-series specific questions, genres are acceptable?
@Krazer I think that is okay; the question though is are they even worth the hassle.
18:57
@Krazer I think so. Though for now we only have 3 of these questions
@LoganM we are not agreeing about shonen as a genre: the problem with this tag is ambiguous, lolicon is not
@chirale How is shonen ambiguous?
@chirale I don't think that, in this context, this is an issue
It's an anime whose target audience is young boys.
@chirale Whether shounen is a genre or a demographic grouping is a semantic difference in this context. It has no bearing on the discussion IMO.
18:58
I understand that you're trying to differentiate genres and demographics, but for this purpose I think they are equivalent.
@MadaraUchiha someone tells it's a genre or a "style", someone it's a demographic (I agree with the latter)
I also think they are equivalent.
so the very question is: should we allow ambiguous tags?
I don't actually see it as ambiguous...
@chirale I don't see how, in this context, a tag is ambiguous
18:59
@chirale the Shojo Beat magazine has this to say:
> In contrast to action-oriented shonen (boys’) manga, shojo manga ruminate on themes of emotion, love, identity, and responsibility that often play out internally. That said, shojo manga are by no means just for girls. Shojo stories are about aspects of life that concern everyone—boys and girls, old and young.
@chirale How is it ambiguous? It's a question about the demographic group. Whether or not any particular series falls in that demographic is irrelevant for all practical purposes.
@LoganM agreed
Another thing to note: These tags are almost all irrelevant in the context of SEO, since the title will specify the genre in almost all cases.
like genres of fiction, adult, young-adult, I think the same applies with anime and manga genre
@LoganM good point
19:01
Anyways, I have to go. Busy day for me. cya
@LoganM @Krazer right: irrelevant and ambiguous
@Mysticial cya
@Mysticial ciao
@Mysticial bye
ok. So, genre tags are allowed, although there does not seem to be a need for them ATM. Is that it?
19:03
I should cite the case of Narutaru, anyone of you knows this title?
@chirale it's a bit more specific than series where X does Y in Z fashion
Shadow Star, known in Japan as , which comes from the abbreviation of , is the name of a Japanese manga and of the anime series which was based on the manga. The series was created by Mohiro Kitoh and was originally serialized in the magazine Afternoon. When asked about the manga, Mohiro Kitoh stated that he had about 80% of the entire story planned out from the beginning. When he was asked about the anime series, he stated he was grateful it was made. In the United States, it was licensed by Dark Horse and serialized in Super Manga Blast! The 13-episode anime adaptation was broadc...
@JNat IMO we should wait until there's a genre with at least a couple of questions relating to it before implementing these.
@LoganM yes, if the need arises, we do it. If not, we're ok like this
should we move on, then?
OK. Summary: No action on genre tags, until there is an need for them.
19:05
There's something else from tags I'd like to bring up.
Unrelated to genre tags.
the style of that work is something that can be wrongly associated to younger demographics, but the series target seinen and then the publisher in the US have to stop publishing it.
@Eric go ahead
@JNat Okay, I think we've reached a consensus to do nothing for now on genre tags, but implement them in the future if they get large enough to be useful for categorization.
There seems to be a discrepancy in how we're handling individual continuities' tags.
A while back, I asked a meta question about this: meta.anime.stackexchange.com/q/308/274
But some series (like Ghost in the Shell) have tags for each continuity. Contrast with FMA, which does not. (I don't believe Naruto does either.)
So, how do we decide which series (if any) get continuity-specific tags?
@Eric I am not sure if any of them should get a continuity-specific tag.
generally, I think a general tag for the franchise is better
unless someone wants to point out any particular case in which this would not be good, I think that is the way to go
19:09
It just means that it always has to be clarified in the post itself. So, someone who is looking for info on X continuity (or is in an expert in X continuity only) will have to read the post rather than rely on the tags.
@Eric SAC is rather different from the original GitS. There is really probably more different than similar. By contrast, the differences between FMA and Brotherhood could be summarized nicely in a single post.
@Eric exactly
@LoganM But they are markedly different in terms of a question. "What is Wrath's role? " is (aside from being too broad) impossible to answer without knowing which continuity.
I think if the universe is contiguous (Naruto, Shippuden) we can use one tag, unless that series is a spin off (Index, Railgun)
@Eric I don't think there will be that many cases of this. It's much more likely to just be one more tag people have to ignore than to be useful for any sort of classification.
19:11
@Krazer yeah, a spin-off is not a sequel. It's a different case, IMO
@Eric That's perfectly fine. It can be specified in the question itself, or better in the title.
Fellas, I must be off
@Krazer What is FMA, then? (Sorry to use this repeatedly, it's just the one I know best.) They start contiguously, but diverge significantly.
@MadaraUchiha Alright, see you later.
@MadaraUchiha take care
Sorry for not being active on this one, post the results on meta
19:12
@MadaraUchiha bye!
@Eric I don't think that's any different from any other anime which diverges from the manga later on.
@LoganM Should they be considered one continuity, then? Or at least, as "not a spin-off"?
@Eric FMA and FMA:B are separate universe continuities, so they should warrant 2 diff tags
That's my thinking also. So we appear to be divided on this.
@Krazer Why? Should we have separate tags for the manga and anime versions of Soul Eater then?
19:14
@Krazer I do not agree with that
@LoganM I haven't watched the anime, do they diverge in terms of continuity (only lik the Bleach anime)
this way we avoid confusion where plots diverge
@Krazer Yes, a huge amount. About half of the anime is from the manga, but the ending of the anime is completely different.
@LoganM just the ending? or major plot point content?
I don't understand the distinction you're making between continuities vs plots diverging.
Lets take the Eureka Seven anime and the manga as an example
19:17
@Krazer It's pretty major plot content IMO.
@Krazer Haven't read the manga, sorry.
D:
hmmm
should we wrap it up?
I think if a story becomes the a different story all together like Ultimate Spiderman vs Amazing Spiderman, it should warrant it's own tag
BTW how many FMA questions right now are specific to one or the other continuity?
@LoganM I think they are mostly about differences between both
or general stuff that fit both
19:20
@LoganM I'll check.
at least, I do not remember any one particular to any one of both
Lets let it sit for now
it doesn't really affect SEO that much
If it's less than half of them, the added work in having an extra tag doesn't seem worth it to me. It's one more tag everyone has to favorite/ignore, and it makes it more difficult when you're asking the question to decide how to tag it.
2
@LoganM agreed
The only cases I'd advise separate tags are when you'd be more interested in asking "What are the similarities/relations between X and Y continuities?" rather than "What are the differences between X and Y continuities?"
19:22
Both: 5
Brotherhood: 2
Original: 0
Differences between them (or needs different answers for both series): 5
I gotta go, bye!
@Eric the last means that it is either about difs between them or that it is not specified?
@chirale cya
@Eric I'd put differences between them in the "Both" category also.
@JNat Right. Like "What is the pocket watch for" has a different answer for both.
@Eric ok, then so what @LoganM said is good for me
19:24
Lets wrap this up. We're way over on time.
@Krazer indeed
so about tags
@Krazer Yes.
we do nothing in both the genre and the continuity cases
at least for now
all in agreement?
@JNat Seems like it.
19:25
For now, yes, leave them as-is.
Ok. Marking...
Okay, we all agree.
ok, next up is.....? (@Krazer)
Questions review
old questions, right?
19:26
but I think we should save it for next time.
I agree. I have to go soon anyway.
@Krazer ok, I agree
I agree. It's about the answer ratio, and that is still "Okay". We don't need to worry for now.
ok so meta posts
Lets conclude this here. Thanks for participating everyone!
19:27
the tags thing probably does not need one, since we will take no action, right?
@JNat correct
@JNat We did decide on some things even though there was no action.
@Krazer will you make a meta post for the content debate
@LoganM do you think that deserves a meta post?
@JNat Okay.
@JNat I think so. Other people should be allowed to share their opinions regarding this and we should at least state that there wasn't any conclusion though we made some decisions.
19:29
@LoganM do you wanna do it?
if so, do not forget to link to the bookmark
@JNat I can, but probably not for another 10 hours at minimum. I really need to grade exams since that was supposed to be done yesterday.
But if you don't care about the delay, then I'm up for it.
@LoganM it is not pressing. no problem :)
well then, I think I'm off
Well then I'll see you guys later. I'll probably stay offline until I finish grading, which takes forever so I don't know when I'll be done.
see y'all tomorrow
@LoganM cya
Have you guys reviewed any questions?
19:32
@MadaraUchiha on this session? no
we decided to leave it to next one
since we've been here for 2,5 hours
we were losing focus :P
@Krazer you have not bookmarked the tags debate yet
@JNat or have I?
@Krazer lol, I was about to save one
ok, so I'm off
See ya
@JNat g'nite
20:17
1
Q: What types of content should we post on our community pages to help promote this site?

KrazerAfter some discussion in our sixth Chat Cast on how to use our Facebook and Google+ community pages, we've reached the following conclusion: We should try to post more interesting non-Q&A content (news, trailers, show and tell, etc.) to help generate discussion and traffic to the site. Make...

hi are you guys busy
@caveman Somewhat. Sup?
just saying hi
packing my stuff too
Hi. :D
im gonna play a little sonic
20:29
Which game?
the first, for megadrive
Sweet. I love the Sonic series.
Even Sonic 2006 had its charm. It was the music, of course, the rest was complete bull. But it was still nice that it existed. xD
oh thatsone of the 3D ones, I remember the first 3D one on the dreamcast
it seems like all the 3D ones are a bit controversial
lol, Sonic 2006 is hilarious.
It is sooooooooooo glitchy.
Here, let me get you a video. xD
Skip to 0:48 if you don't like explanation screens.
lolol
FLYING BOX
20:38
:D
I like the standing on the top of the loop one.
Yeah, this is the game that all Sonic fans dread because it was infamously bad. Most of them reject it as even being canon.
aha
like minami-ke season 3
@caveman Was it terrible enough to make fans shun it? lol
yeah
mention it on /a/, "what? they never made season 3"
lol!
That's awesome.
Reminds me of episodes 25 and 26 of Neon Genesis Evangelion.
They're non-canon, and basically mean nothing to the Eva fan base. (Except the jokes.)
although that was more like the studio saying "money? we don't have any money"
20:49
Ergh.
If you don't have money, put the show on hiatus.
At least people would still have faith.
@caveman I thought season 2 was the really bad one.
Anyway both 2 and 3 were bad, so it's not that important. 1 is great, though I haven't watched 4 yet so I can't comment on it.
yeah I liked 1 a lot
I was just watching anything that was labelled "slice of life" at that point
I did that for a while. It was fun. Way more fun than trying to watch everything (which I also did for a while).
@Eric Sadly Klingon Language and Usage got bumped out of the starred list.
@LoganM Should we restore it to its glory? That meeting had soooooo many starred messages. :P
21:05
@Eric I can pin it, but that seems like a bit abuse of power.
Pff. I'd star it again. lol
Anyway I need to get back to grading. This question is the worst one I've ever had to grade.
@LoganM When you're done, share what it is. :P But for now, yes, work work work!!!
22:07
@Krazer "Number of people saying, "You're not blind!" - 3" Man, wtf...?
22:56
Wikipedia has the strangest featured article of the day today that I've seen in a while
lolol

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