Maid Café (メイド喫茶)

Hell Butterfly

06:31

1

Throughout the beta, we need members from the site whose focus is to engage the community, both in community-building issues and site management. That's why we select a few members from each community to act as temporary, provisional Moderators. You can read about the program here: Moderators Pro...

Jon Lin

07:31

Is that the preview for the 3rd movie?

Hell Butterfly

11:59

1

Q: The characters tag, good or bad?

A tag has many purposes. The most popular tag of a question will appear in its title, which helps SEO. Tags help navigate the site. Tags have pages to describe about them, providing background on the subject. A tag is less useful then, if it appears on most of the questions on the site. ...

discussion tags

Krazer

13:04

@JonLin Yes. Looks pretty good.

Hell Butterfly

15:18

0

Q: How to ask questions on this site?

What are the kinds of questions one should ask on this site? The following will cover: What kinds of questions are considered good, on topic questions on this site? What to do to make sure my question gets the best chances of good answers? What kinds of questions are considered off topic on ...

support faq asking-questions

Krazer

16:32

@HellButterfly I like this question, but are we should we provide actual posted questions or provide conceptual examples?

JNat

17:03

@Krazer I was thinking about that too

I guess we could provide examples

and I was thinking we should make an answer for each point in the question

and edit the question to link to each answer

something like this meta.japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/756/…

we should provide conceptual examples, and illustrate them with actual questions

that is what I think

And I got the impression that Madara's objective with that post was to create a sort of guide for users, rather then to incite discussion

so there should be debate before posting anything there, I guess

also, most of those topics have been debated

Krazer

18:34

@JNat I feel that we should draw from existing examples before we make conceptual examples, because existing examples have been tried and proven, while conceptual question can be hit and miss.

Madara Uchiha

Yo @Krazer @JNat

Both here?

Krazer

18:50

@MadaraUchiha All hail, Truth-sama!

Madara Uchiha

:P

Krazer

22:19

@MadaraUchiha how exactly does one add something to the FAQ page?

Madara Uchiha

@Krazer Let's test

There's an edit link

Krazer

I only see an "edit" option for "What kind of questions can I ask here?"

JNat

hey

Krazer

hello~

JNat

@Krazer about that question I closed

I saw it as not constructive, and tried to explain it to the OP

Krazer

22:27

the user was new you should give him time to modify his question before you close it or leave it up to the community

JNat

I should have just left a comment and let the situation 'handle itself'

Krazer

Since we're new we don't want to chase away new users for not reading the instruction before posting

JNat

@Krazer yeah, totally agreed

Krazer

@MadaraUchiha is "What kind of questions can I ask here?" the only question we can edit?

JNat

btw, did you understand what DeidaraSenpai's comment meant?

Krazer

22:30

@JNat Which one?

JNat

the one on that question

Krazer

@JNat xD Which one? That one about the stupid protagonist trope?

JNat

@RossSpencer If it makes you feel any better, that's how it works here unfortunately. There is a group of people who decide what the question means, regardless of what the OP actually meant. Any amount of explanation saying "that's not what I am asking for" won't change a thing. — Deidara-senpai 5 hours ago

Krazer

@JNat Ah I think it's a bit harsh. It's up to the community to decide if it's a good question (not a group of ppl), they are the ones that will try to help you answer you're question. If the OP doesn't provide sufficient context, the community will have a tough time trying to figure out what the OP is looking for.

Mysticial

I'll put my 2 cents into this.

That one is quite borderline.

He isn't asking for a list to be answered - but rather a link to one.

Which is almost as bad.

Since link-only answers are extremely discouraged since they become useless if the link dies.

Krazer

22:40

@Mysticial but he explicitly says "I am looking for a list of zombie anime..." xD

Mysticial

Yeah you're right, the question body itself is crying that.

In the earlier days of SO, such a question would have been forced into CW almost immediately.

lol at the irony of "more mature than High School of the Dead"

"more mature" implies adult content.

Krazer

xD

I edited Logan M's comment to include a link to the meta about recommendation questions.

Mysticial

We also have to make a decision on this question:

29

Q: What differentiates anime from regular cartoons?

In my region, people don't know the difference between anime and regular cartoons. When they see me watching anime, or they hear about it somehow, they say that I'm watching a regular cartoon and hence I'm being childish. Sometimes, they even display sarcastic attitudes, so that giving a serious ...

anime-production

On the latest podcast, they were talking about Anime.SE and they didn't like that question.

They joked about creating an account to delete it too. lol

Krazer

Lol. I agree. I think it's not constructive and I think we should close it rather than delete it, in case a similar situation pops up in the future.

What do you all think?

Mysticial

I'd say close. And perhaps we should evaluate the possibility of a historic lock to protect it from being deleted in the future.

Krazer

22:54

@Mysticial How does one do a historic lock?

Mysticial

I'd say double-check with some other more experienced moderators to see if a historic lock is appropriate.

@Krazer It's one of the lock options.

Should be under the mod tools.

But I've never been a mod anywhere so I don't know where it is.

Krazer

@Mysticial I see it. Thanks.

Mysticial

There are several locking options.

A normal lock prevents the question from being voted on and answered.

A historic lock freezes the entire question and all its answers. Nothing can be voted on or edited, or even flagged.

Krazer

Ok. I've permanently locked this question.

Mysticial

Historic lock is mainly for preserving old high-voted questions that are not on-topic, but doesn't deserved to be deleted.

@Krazer Cool. I think it's appropriate. But pay attention to meta to see if anyone speaks out against it.

Krazer

22:58

@Mysticial Will do. thanks for the advice.

Mysticial

Normal locks (the non-historical ones) are usually to stop content-disputes.

Madara Uchiha

Yo

jkerian

oy

JNat

@Krazer it seems to be

Krazer

Welcome back. Nice job with the FAQ.

Madara Uchiha

23:03

@JNat @Krazer try not to argue or contradict each other on posts or comments

Keep it professional and in chat/TL

Krazer

@MadaraUchiha Duly noted.

JNat

@MadaraUchiha same here

Logan M

If that question is being locked (which I don't disagree with), there should probably be an answer on my Meta question about it a while back

jkerian

Yeah... even though moderator isn't really a 'leader' per-se... they do get taken way too seriously by the peasantry. Reality is, of course, that the community team actually "runs" these sites, mods just make their lives a bit easier.

Logan M

6

Q: Is "What differentiates anime from regular cartoons?" off-topic?

What differentiates anime from regular cartoons? has been closed twice as off-topic and reopened both times, and hasn't changed much over that period. Rather than vote to close it again (and eventually reopen it again), I think we should discuss here on meta why we think it should be considered o...

discussion

Mysticial

23:06

Now that we have more people here, who is for or against the historic lock on that anime vs. cartoon question?

Madara Uchiha

@Mysticial Lets start with the fact that it should be a content dispute one until it's resolved.

As for the reasons for the lock

I actually think this is an on-topic question.

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha Then go ahead and add a notification to the question.

JNat

@MadaraUchiha @Krazer tell me something, questions asking for lists are not constructive, right?

Mysticial

Or change the lock reason to content dispute.

Madara Uchiha

@JNat They 99% of the case aren't.

Mysticial

23:08

^^

jkerian

@JNat Generally speaking, they're discouraged across the whole network. There's an issue of "answerability"

We had to quash a few dozen of them, back at the start of JLU

Madara Uchiha

Because only one answer can exist, and that answer is likely to grow to monsterous sizes and not be useful at all.

Mysticial

It can be done. And the only times they tend to work is if the list has only 1 thing.

Krazer

@JNat Yes. As it has been discussed in this meta.

jkerian

"Please can I haz a list of all words that mean 'toilet'"

Madara Uchiha

23:09

@jkerian Oh God.

Well, regarding the Cartoons vs Anime question

Anyone besides me thinks it's actually an on-topic question?

JNat

@Krazer the thing is that new user "didn't ask for recommendations", as he puts it, but rather for a list explicitly

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha It's on-topic. But it's the constructiveness that's being debated.

Krazer

@JNat which is technically a recommendation, don't you think?

Logan M

@JNat It's just a different way of asking for functionally the same thing. The question still has all the flaws of a recommendation question,

Mysticial

@JNat If it's at all possible, edit that question into an answerable form and reopen it.

That'll encourage him to come back.

JNat

23:11

@Krazer yeah, I think it is a recommendation, but both the OP and DeidaraSenpai seem to be bothered by the fact that we 'do not care about the original intent of the question'

jkerian

ONE questionable question at a time, folks This is getting confusing

JNat

@Mysticial I do not see how it is

Mysticial

@jkerian We settled on locking the Anime vs. cartoon question for now.

Locking as "content dispute"

jkerian

ahh... okay

(we did?)

JNat

@MadaraUchiha I think it is both on-topic and constructive

Mysticial

23:12

Which IMO is totally appropriate because we're still debating whether it's on-topic and constructive.

But the lock serves the purpose of telling people that the question is indeed controversial.

Logan M

@jkerian I think we're postponing discussing it since the zombie one is more immediate

Madara Uchiha

@JNat Makes two of us.

@jkerian I did

Until we resolve it,

Logan M

or maybe not after all

JNat

@MadaraUchiha I believe the issue is that the answerer should be disciplined and stick to 'technical details'

Madara Uchiha

@LoganM Zombies one is definitely not constructive, period. I don't see any way to really improve it without changing the meaning, and since the core of the question is problematic, I won't vote to reopen it.

JNat

23:14

@MadaraUchiha instead of the usual 'cartoons are for kids and anime for adults'

@MadaraUchiha I fullheartedly agree

Logan M

@MadaraUchiha Agreed. I see no way to improve the question without changing what it is asking for.

Madara Uchiha

Therefore, the question will remain closed.

Mysticial

I agree with keeping it closed. However, it's possible to answer it with one CW answer.

Madara Uchiha

If the OP feels that he can improve it, and the community has shown interest to reopen it, I will not object.

@Mysticial I don't think it's a good idea.

The question isn't really unanswerable, it is prone to change should new information is revealed, and will become less and less useful the more it's bloated.

jkerian

@Mysticial Resources list... with a link to anidb? (or whatever the kids are using these days?)

Madara Uchiha

23:17

You can technically answer it, but I don't think there's a place for it in the site.

Besides, you and I both know that a question of this type on Stack Overflow would be not only closed, but also deleted in less than 10 minutes.

Mysticial

I didn't say we should do it. I'm just saying that it's possible - albeit very high maintenance.

And I'd vote against doing it actually.

Madara Uchiha

A general resource list, in collaboration with the community is a good post to have

Because it's worth the maintenance, and will remain useful as long as the navigation is clear.

jkerian

I suspect there are many websites out there that are better equipped to catalogue all anime by genre than AnM (AM?... AaM?)

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha But are be going to be able to maintain it?

Madara Uchiha

However, on such a specific question, on a specific series, we just can't afford to do it

JNat

23:19

@MadaraUchiha something like this?

Mysticial

At the size we are right now, I don't think we can.

Madara Uchiha

Otherwise, the next question will be "What are all of the fire element techniques with rank B or above?"

@Mysticial I'm saying that in the future we will be able to have it.

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha That could work, if it's for a specific show and there are only a finite # of levels.

Madara Uchiha

@Mysticial Sure it could work

But it's not worth the maintenance.

jkerian

@MadaraUchiha Yeah... I guess I don't see what's wrong with that question, as long as the list is known to be finite (and reasonably sized)

Put it this way... that question is fine, as soon as the show & manga are both done

Mysticial

23:21

@MadaraUchiha Actually, if we narrow it like that, it's very answerable. Something like "Who are all the level 5's in the Index/Railgun Universe?"

That would be answerable and constructive question.

Since there's only like 8 of them.

jkerian

(I'm assuming it's a Naruto-universe question... so it may be totally inappropriate in any case... I only watched 1-2 episodes of that show)

Madara Uchiha

@Mysticial Thing is, the OP doesn't know how answerable and constructive his question is, until it's closed.

We need to draw the line.

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha Are we still talking about the zombie question?

That one should stay closed.

Madara Uchiha

There's a long standing policy over the entire network against list questions.

Krazer

@Mysticial I thought there were only 7 officially

Logan M

23:23

@Mysticial I think that's the same in principle as anime.stackexchange.com/questions/820/…, which I guess is okay (not amazing, but not terrible either). And Bleach isn't even done.

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha Only if the list is endless and keeps changing. If there's only a small fixed number of them, then it's fine. Put it all in one answer, and it's done.

@Krazer I read somewhere that one of them died prior to events in both shows.

Madara Uchiha

@Mysticial Again, the OP might not know how constructive his question is.

I guess it's worth a second thought

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha If the list is indeed endless, then we close it.

"What is a list of all Anime with fan-service?" -> close
"Who are all the level 5's in the Index/Railgun Universe?" -> keep

simple as that

of course there's a line somewhere in the middle

Madara Uchiha

@Mysticial We'll need to draw that line.

Mysticial

But I think in most cases, it'll be pretty clear-cut to anyone who has seen the show.

jkerian

23:26

@MadaraUchiha Not really... it's actually okay for it to be a little bit fuzzy

As long as it's understood that "The question has to be answerable", then it's fine

Mysticial

When the line is fuzzy, the mods usually stay out and let everyone else decide.

Logan M

I think also it may make a difference if the list is in-universe or out-of-universe. I can't imagine a good question asking for a list of anime, but a list of things in a particular anime can make a good question.

Mysticial

Or at least a mod with an opinion would only cast the 4th or 5th vote.

jkerian

@LoganM That's a very good point

Mysticial

@LoganM Agreed. Once you limit it to a single Anime - (maybe not the long-running ones) it limits the scope enough to be constructive.

Madara Uchiha

23:28

@LoganM That too can get out of hand

"What are all of the water element techniques in Naruto?"

There are dozens, if not hundreds.

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha Don't forget that you come from PHP, and your line is probably a lot, should I say "different" from ours.

Madara Uchiha

@Mysticial Point taken.

Mysticial

Limited lists with only a few items will work. And they have worked.

Madara Uchiha

9

Q: What is the definition of a list question?

After an extensive discussion in chat I've come to the conclusion there are some unclarities relating to list questions. In an attempt to tackle this problem in a more constructive format I first want to address a seamingly "simple" issue. What is a list question? I'm not interested in discussi...

discussion terminology list-questions

Related ^

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha Well, like I said, "maybe not the long running shows".

Madara Uchiha

23:30

@Mysticial "What are the rules of the Death Note"?

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha I'd say that's answerable.

Madara Uchiha

Well

Mysticial

Yes, there are a lot of them. But the show is done, and it won't change.

Madara Uchiha

I think the key is the rate of change

Logan M

@MadaraUchiha I didn't say that every in-universe list question is good. The borderline is fuzzy, but I think it's clear cut that every out-of-universe list question is going to be bad.

Madara Uchiha

23:31

It doesn't really matter in-universe vs out-of-universe

The point is if the list is prone to change

We're gonna have a bad time.

out-of-universe questions are always prone to change

Mysticial

If the list is prone to change, then it should either be closed out-right. Or if we can handle the maintenance, let one answer go wiki. But I don't particularly recommend this second option.

Madara Uchiha

Aight folks, I need to go now

Mysticial

Definitely not right now.

Madara Uchiha

Way past my bedtime.

jkerian

Hypothetical... what do you think of "What are all the zombie-related anime movies made in the 90s?" - not prone to change...

Mysticial

23:33

night

Madara Uchiha

I trust you to make the right decision, keep me posted.

Logan M

@MadaraUchiha I imagine "What are all the robot anime from the 90s" isn't acceptable even though it's not going to change.

jkerian

@LoganM twins!

Mysticial

@jkerian I'd argue that's not constructive unless there's a very clear cut definition of "zombie" anime.

Madara Uchiha

Tomorrow if possible, I'd like to review a more important subject.

How to get more people and more traffic to the site.

Mysticial

23:34

And even then, the list is potentially huge.

JNat

@MadaraUchiha Yeah, we need to think hard about that

Madara Uchiha

Very hard

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha Agreed. I have some ideas about it. But I won't be able to pull it off alone.

Madara Uchiha

Constructiveness or not, if we don't get enough critical mass, we'll be shut down

But that's for tomorrow.

JNat

@MadaraUchiha fo shizzle

jkerian

23:35

@Mysticial Does it involve embedding the site URLs into digits of PI?

Mysticial

And I'm serious here. I've been known for attracting large crowds on SO. We can probably do the same on Anime.SE.

Madara Uchiha

Do we have a time (hopefully sooner than now) where everyone's here at the same time?

Mysticial

@jkerian no :)

Madara Uchiha

@Mysticial I was thinking about IRC

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha I'm thinking about Reddit.

Madara Uchiha

23:36

freenode has some pretty serious anime channels

Reddit's a good possibility too

Krazer

We should schedule an site event for this

Madara Uchiha

I don't have an acc there though

Mysticial

@Krazer Do it. I'm not room owner so I can't.

Madara Uchiha

Any 'mericans here?

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha me

Krazer

23:36

@MadaraUchiha I do.

@MadaraUchiha I'm EST

Mysticial

I don't have an account on Reddit either.

Madara Uchiha

That's -7

Logan M

Keep in mind that our site has to be ready to handle a lot of traffic if we're posting on places like reddit

Mysticial

@LoganM That's not a problem.

Madara Uchiha

@LoganM We have users experienced from Stack Overflow

That's the least of our problems.

JNat

23:37

@MadaraUchiha I have -1 than you, right?

Mysticial

All the sites share the same bandwidth.

Madara Uchiha

@JNat I'm +2

JNat

I am gmt!

Mysticial

I've had one of my answers pick up 40k+ views in a single day.

JNat

I am the 0

Logan M

23:38

@MadaraUchiha I'm also EST

Madara Uchiha

I propose 2100UTC

tomorrow

JNat

@MadaraUchiha what is utc?

Madara Uchiha

England time

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha I should be able to do it if I'm not still in my school's job fair.

JNat

@MadaraUchiha so it's me too

Madara Uchiha

23:39

Or we could do it on the weekend

Mysticial

@MadaraUchiha We don't all have to be there.

It's just a brainstorming session.

Logan M

I'm in class Tuesdays and Thursdays at that time, but other days would be fine

Mysticial

We aren't making any decisions yet.

Madara Uchiha

I want that most of us are here

Mysticial

I'd say we have at least several brainstorming sessions before we decide to do anything.

Madara Uchiha

23:40

Agree

Feeds

Madara Uchiha has added Mysticial to the list of this room's owners.

Logan M

@Mysticial I meant in terms of mods being able to deal with a surge of new questions. I'm pretty sure the site itself will be fine.

Mysticial

Oh cool. Thanks.

@LoganM We're fine on that.

Krazer

@LoganM That's why there's 3 of us :)

Mysticial

It doesn't take 3 moderators to clean up all the shit that pours in. Just protect the problematic questions and it's done.

Madara Uchiha

23:41

@LoganM Worst case scenario, we summon Jon Skeet.

Mysticial

New users won't have enough rep anyway.

JNat

I can be here both tomorrow at 2100 UTC and on the weekend

Madara Uchiha

Same

Mysticial

So 2100 UTC it is?

Madara Uchiha

If most of us are able to be here

Ideally all 3 mods should

@Krazer

Krazer

23:43

Looking at my schedule for tomorrow

Mysticial

Anyways, I have a night class starting in 15 min. So BBL.

JNat

@Krazer busy guy eh? :)

Madara Uchiha

@Mysticial Aight

@Krazer That's 1600EST

Krazer

@MadaraUchiha I just wanted to make sure to block it off so I don't get a surprise meeting.

Madara Uchiha

@Krazer Sure thing

Krazer

23:45

I should be okay.

JNat

@Krazer tomorrow at 2100 UTC it is!

Feeds

Madara Uchiha has added an event to this room's schedule.

Madara Uchiha

I've scheduled it as a repeating event, I hope to make it so

Wouldn't hurt

Logan M

Now that that's out of the way, what did we decide about cartoons?

Madara Uchiha

Well fellas, now I'm really off to bed

JNat

23:48

@MadaraUchiha cya :)

Madara Uchiha

good night :)

Krazer

37 mins ago, by Mysticial

Locking as "content dispute"

Logan M

@Krazer That's just temporary, though. Eventually someone (presumably the mods) will have to decide whether to reopen it, close it, historical lock it, or delete it. When that happens someone should post an answer to my meta question about this question explaining the decision.

No rush though. I don't really care about this question individually, but it does set a precedent either way you decide.

JNat

@LoganM I think it is both constructive and on-topic, provided that the answerer does not drift into subjective answers. I believe a lot of good answers can arise from that question

Transcript for

Maid Café (メイド喫茶)