Maid Café (メイド喫茶) - 2023-01-23

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12:00 AM

@ペガサスSeiya What if the shields nullify lasers in general?

It may be that they're able to deflect photons, in which case sending out more photons is no more likely to damage it than shooting photons at a perfectly-reflective mirror. As far as I'm aware, the only thing that can penetrate the deflector shields are large physical objects, antimatter explosives, or strong nadion beams (aka phasers).

ペガサス Seiya

@forest it would still need some evidence depending on what kind of "nullification" that is. If it teleports the laser away, it'll work. If it just "power nulls" it, it could work. But if it just nulls it by tanking it then nah, not unless it has shown tanking something that strong before

@ペガサスSeiya There might be something in the Star Trek Technical Manual, but as far as cannon up to TNG goes, all we know is that a rather weak species attempted to threaten the Enterprise-D, and the threat was brushed off because they only had lasers, and the navigation shields alone can withstand lasers. I believe the navigation shields are used to protect the Starship from damage due to particles (photons, protons, etc.) when traveling at significantly faster than light speed.

If it deflects photons rather than absorbing or neutralizing them, then it would probably withstand a laser attack of any power.

ペガサス Seiya

@forest then yeah if it works by deflection then it could possibly null that laser

Can't null Goku's punch tho @forest

It probably also depends on whether or not the shield generators simply create a field of a fixed strength which deflects photons, or if the shield generators have to work harder to deflect more photons.

@ペガサスSeiya Oh yeah, the entire Starfleet would be no match for Goku.

ペガサス Seiya

@forest especially since Goku has already shown destroying shields that can withstand powerful supernova-like attacks

12:08 AM

I should probably ask this question about their shields on SFF.

@ペガサスSeiya Ah, no match at all! The Enterprise's strongest shields, their deflectors, cannot even withstand entering the corona of a star, much less a supernova. The only way the Enterprise can avoid supernovae is by going to warp speed to escape them (or by using their long-range sensors to determine which stars they should keep away from).

ペガサス Seiya

@forest Goku himself traverse the universe in 32 seconds, he's that fast. So I doubt the starfleet could escape him

The fastest Starfleet ships take decades to even cross the galaxy.

Now, Q vs Goku I'd be interested in seeing...

Q is almost a god.

Q just have to think it and Goku is gone

ペガサス Seiya

@forest then Goku can just wipe out the galaxy and the starship with it

@Memor-X Assuming the other Q don't stop him.

12:13 AM

@forest have they ever lol

Quite a few times, I think.

ペガサス Seiya

How strong is Q? Sounds powerful if you're so sure he'd defeat Kakarot

They even turned him into a human once because he couldn't stop messing with humans.

like i only know 2 times the Continuum has stopped a Q doing what they wanted to do

when Quinn wanted to die
and Q Junior

Star Trek Voyager - 'Don't Provoke The Borg'

@ペガサスSeiya He's almost a god. He can materialize anywhere at will and teleport any object anywhere. He can give anyone his powers or take away the powers from anyone else (unless they're stronger than him, presumably).

12:15 AM

@forest oh yeh i forgot that

ペガサス Seiya

@forest that just sounds like normal teleportation. Goku's been doing that for ages

@ペガサスSeiya He can also make himself untouchable.

that's when he creates a mariachi band on the bridge as a celebration isn't it

ペガサス Seiya

@forest Well, Goku has destroyed the 'untouchable' via Hakai

He is a Tier 1-B, according to vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Q_(Star_Trek).

ペガサス Seiya

12:16 AM

Goku gets steamrolled

Heh.

@ペガサスSeiya The only thing stopping that from happening is the fact that Q does not attack anyone indiscriminately. He prefers to put people into extremely difficult situations that already exist somewhere else in space. That, and the Q Continuum would probably undo anything seriously bad that Q does.

ペガサス Seiya

Even at his strongest, Goku is Low 1-C in tier. Doesn't sound like much but the difference between that and Tier 1-B is several infinities higher

40

A: Why doesn't the Enterprise ever hit an asteroid?

One of the primary systems that makes prolonged spaceflight possible in the Star Trek universe is the "Navigational Deflector". The TNG Technical Manual explains the operation of this device in mind-numbing detail but in brief, it projects a series of low level static shields and deflector shie...

Briefly describes the navigation shields.

@ペガサスSeiya he can give a robot human feelings, materialize puppies out of no where, instant teleportation of an entire starship and it's crew, create barriers in space so large that going around in any direction is not an option and jumping between timelines

that's just what i remember from the main Q who bothers Picard all the time

ペガサス Seiya

@Memor-X yeah his strength tier on VSBattles wiki is far above Goku's best

12:22 AM

i havn't seen that wiki but i'd suspect they wouldn't be wrong in their assessment

ペガサス Seiya

@forest here, this guy destroys Q vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Akuto_Sai

like you have the Deus ex Machina trope, and then you have Q creating the Deus ex Machina Trope

and he's only creating it for shits and giggles

What kind of things are Tier 5-C?

ペガサス Seiya

@forest people who can destroy/create moons or moon sized objects

Or at least output that kind of energy

Ah.

ペガサス Seiya

12:25 AM

@forest Goku ranges from 2-A to Low 1-C there

12:39 AM

0

Q: Can the navigational deflectors resist lasers of any strength?

In The Outrageous Okana, it is described that lasers are ineffective against the Enterprise: WORF: Still no response. Captain, they are now locking lasers on us. RIKER: Lasers? WORF: Yes, sir. PICARD: Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that? Does this apply to l...

star-trek star-trek-tng technology deflector

Let's see if I get any answers from this.

ペガサス Seiya

The title has a typo @forest

Oops, saw it now. Fixed.

8 hours later…

8:46 AM

@ペガサスSeiya now this would be an intriguing question... I should probably check the original Japanese wording to see if the intent was so specific.

It is clear than the note can't work on a deity (and shinigami qualify as such) but other than that one probably has to wonder if "human" means specifically "only humans" or "living begins close enough to an human".

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon Goku is a deity as well at this point

To put it into context, Jump Super Star actually went as far as specifically programming the Death Note to NOT work on Arale, but it worked on Goku

ペガサス Seiya

So that means there's 3 reasons it probably won't work on him

@SPArcheon that's understandable. Arale is a gag character that not even the author could kill

@ペガサスSeiya nope, they made all the attacks that works on humans not applicable to "not human enough" characters. The "gag" character didn't really matter in that.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon well for one Arale is a robot too. She doesn't even have a heart

9:01 AM

@ペガサスSeiya exactly.

They tried to give characters abilities that related to their own depiction in the source material.

For some reason the "death note" was portrayed as being effective on basically every "living" thing.

So now you made me wonder if it was intentional or just oversimplification for the sake of gameplay.

To put it into context... that page was also written by Ryuk.

So, I would expect him to just go "simple".

Even if it had effect on every living being in the universe, he would still probably write "human" since he expected an human to find it and use it to kill other humans.

Ryuk wouldn't really go as far to write "the living creature whose name is written in this note will die" just to be precise.

@ペガサスSeiya Sorry, you misunderstood. By "exaggeration" I didn't mean that they don't go that far again. I mean that it ruins everything else afterward in a way.

The issue is that ever since they went "oh, I should not fire an energy wave downward because planet would go boom" they had a big lingering issue: character have to not use their full strength freely because otherwise they would die by collateral damage.

The "Battle of the Gods" thing is the culmination of that issue.

they are risking universe level destruction by punching each other, and the only hope to survive is that the opponent is skilled enough to punch in a way that "compensates the force by applying a perfectly opposite one"

Obviously, Goku just do that.

Would everyone else be at that level?

TRAD: basically now either they don't fight at full strength (and that would be like two boxer in a match just poking at each other instead of fighting seriously, match would never end) or they constantly risk destruction just by using their strength.

Now, go figure what would happen if in that scene the opponent actually WANTED to destroy the universe.

Remember "Return of F" when Golden Frieza blows up the plane since he can live in space and Goku/Vegeta can't? Now, imagine that Frieza was actually Kid Bu instead, with a force that apparently is greater than Goku in Battle of God.

Universe goes boom.

Would they still live thanks to Whis? Probably.

But every battle with a foe that doesn't care if they live if that means total destruction should end like that.

... I said BATTLE?

Didn't even need to be that.

Just need a Kid Bu with Beerus level strength on the opposite side of the universe to wish for total destruction, they have the power to do so even before Goku knows they exist

That was what I meant by "exaggeration".

It hurts plot when you give that level of power to characters that a) are still tied to planet level relationships and b) don't have any real power other than strength that would enable them at "god" level to be an universe defender.

(by which I mean that Goku still has to rely on knowing that a foe exists somewhere)

@forest Funny trivia: Pinkie Pie is one of the few characters with reality bending, 4th wall breaking and toon force. Considering that Discord is basically Q (and at least in MLP he could be seen a CANONICALLY being Q) with toon force... you have a My Little Pony character that is probably far more dangerous than Q.

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^ context.

9:36 AM

@SPArcheon Isn't Discord also voiced by the same actor who played Q?

@forest yep, both voiced by De Lancie

BTW, the name "Seiya" made me remember one of the other "expy" that are made laughing stock of at the Tournament Of Power.

One character uses Andromeda tecniques.

9:55 AM

user image

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I suppose that it is inevitable to end up with two characters in different manga using similar techniques.

Yet, it becomes really suspicious when such characters are just fodder to be trashed upon by the main character in his rise to "Supreme Mary Sue of Anime World" status.

10:23 AM

@forest And considering that Goku caused the tournament "for fun" and doesn't even apologize to the other universes (he should really just knell dogeza style at the end when --- out of sheer luck and thanks to 17 --- everyone survives ) removing him and Zeno is indeed "eliminating suffering".

@ペガサスSeiya I think Goddess Madoka "killing" would be more similar to Zeno erasing since she is not just "time traveler", she is reality bender level.

the "full power" Madoka isn't even a simple entity anymore. Like I said before she is a concept

@Memor-X and now a weird question.

If Goddess Madoka is the concept to end suffering (and "saving/fighting witches")...

Should "Goddess" Homura actually do the same...

Would then she become Madoka too?

Would them then align in just one concept, a single entity (which probably would make Homura really happy)?

.... have I just predicted the ending we will see in at least 20 years from now?

Will Madoka go zen?

like the saying about Buddah nature being in everything, now Homura becomes Madoka?

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon Yeah well, that's dragon ball for you. Remember how vegeta is shown nuking a planet and its moon with his fingers yet in his actual fight with Goku he only breaks mountains with him? That's Toei's inconsistency for you. To be fair its hard to keep things consistent when you write characters to be this powerful. It isn't feasible to show a continent getting erased every time the character takes a shit, for example

@ペガサスSeiya exactly my point.

Yet it is worth mentioning that Saint Seiya does that fairly better.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon that's why Naruto has much better and consistent scaling. Their characters are never portrayed as these galaxy or universe busting alien gods so then only breaking mountains or countries makes sense

Despite the characters "moving past light speed" and all the like, they fight in a more "realistic" way, so you are moved to accept that the power clash is more at a "spiritual level" than a "physical"one

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon yes, saint seiya fights are much more spiritual/philosophical. Its closer to a clash of will, as opposed to a clash of galaxy busting fists in Dragon Ball. Although to be fair Saint Seiya has that kind of power too

10:37 AM

if you took everything by its literal meaning, the saints should have wiped Grece out of the map by the time the Sanctuary battle ended. Instead, they only sightly damage each temple.

and... it works to their favor.

@ペガサスSeiya exactly.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon saint seiya relies more on statements, such as Saga's Galaxian explosion have the power of an exploding galaxy, so their fights don't feel "off" when they barely destroy temples while going all out

@ペガサスSeiya yep, that's my point. With Dragonball instead you would expect that Golden Frieza punches SSGB Goku and... credits rolls because Universe is destroyed with everything in it.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon true, in my opinion though that's a funny part of dragon ball. You see, in most fictional settings, galaxy or universe busting characters rely on extremely complicated techniques and power/magic systems that can be hard to keep track of even as an author. In dragon ball? It's as simple as a punch. So I think its impressive not because Goku can bust a universe but because of how simply he could that, with just one punch man

@SPArcheon Agreed, although frieza is more interested in ruling the universe as opposed to nuking it.

@SPArcheon that Shun parody in ToP is just another example of Toei animation parodying characters that it animated. It did it to saint seiya, sailor moon, mazinger z and more

@ペガサスSeiya also true but the problem is that they have gone too far imho. Planet nuke was already enough, now basically this mean that every serious battle relies on the fighters not going full nuke mode.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon this is exactly the problem superman has, because he's too strong. He almost never goes all out so you'll never see most of his battles nuke universes even though his mere sneeze can move the whole solar system easily.

10:47 AM

@ペガサスSeiya I don't think that even superman can top DBS levels of insanity, but that is another big point. Superman plots usually do not just rely on sheer power destruction

To put it into comparison.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon Only the extremely strong versions of superman like milkman, strange visitor, thought robot could top DBS and especially DBH levels of insanity.

Majin Bu saga, Goku really loses time there.

He tries to make Gohan & Trunks save the day (because he learned nothing from Cell saga apparently)

in the mean time, Bu evolves past his predictions and wipes out earth population

but - Dragon Ball wish!

Superman... can't just wish everyone back.

So, if a foe attacks Earth, Superman first has to defend and only after that he can attack.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon yeah that's just Toei's way of saying "Goku solos your favorite anime". Like I said, Toei animation loves Goku and they aren't afraid of making him a Mary sue if they have to

Goku does not need to defend because deux et machina will solve any collateral damage

@ペガサスSeiya bingo. And pretty lame too.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon in the next 10 years, I can't even imagine how insanely strong Goku would get

10:52 AM

Human race dead? Dragonballs. Dragonballs wiped? Namek Dragonballs. Planet erased? Whis 5 minute chaos control.

ペガサス Seiya

You'd need nothing short of omnipotent characters to stop him at that point

@SPArcheon Or just use super dragon balls. The real Mary sue in DBS. Can even undo Zeno's own power!

Future Trunks Timeline destroyed? ops, no one really cared for them anyway (if they did they would have resurrected everyone after Cell saga)

ペガサス Seiya

They could easily wish the timeline back with Super Dragon Balls but they didn't

@ペガサスSeiya Even before that, just have Bulma give him a spaceship to go to Namek. It is still there.....

and Namek folk btw should also sense aura, so Grand Idiot Guru could just notice Goku went dead and wish him back.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon Goku can just teleport there himself, he did it in cell saga.

But nope, the writers don't care about anyone not names Goku

10:55 AM

@ペガサスSeiya also true.

@ペガサスSeiya Goku didn't even wish back Gohan. Not the son, the uncle. The one he killed while in berserk state during a full moon.

2

And poor King Kai still waiting...

(that said, Kai should probably ask Dende to contact Namek instead of waiting for Goku)

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon as much as I love Pegasus Seiya I don't think even he would stand much of a chance against current Goku

@ペガサスSeiya just put Goku against Virgo.

Basically, only Ikki could do anything there.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon Shaka? Outside of mind control/nulling senses I don't see what else he could do to Goku

@SPArcheon I think only one of the very high tier Olympians could do anything to him

Hades probably gets stomped by Goku

@ペガサスSeiya Rikudō Rinne is basically pure Buddhism and equates to just wishing you into death world to a level far superior to DBZ "afterlife". As long as he is given that authority it is basically like Buddah himself sending you to afterlife.

oh, btw, you asked me for a manga with characters more powerful than DB :P

Not mainstream but...

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ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon yeah I know that but you know, Goku is just crazy powerful enough to say "Nah" to Shaka doing that and just punch him

Considering that Shaka along with his gold cloth were pulverized with an Athena exclamation, I think a casual blast from Goku would do the same

11:08 AM

@ペガサスSeiya I don't think so. Even the original Goku could not escape Buddah hand and I think that episode even had a reference to that (doesn't Ikki tries to escape only to end up in the hands of a giant Buddah statue at a point?)

Basically, he only wins by divine intervention since that technique is GRANTED to Shaka, not is own power.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon I think that depends on if you think that being really fast means you could escape it. If not then yeah maybe Shaka would get Goku. And yes that's another good point, Shaka performs a miracle to access that technique, its not his own power

What I meant is that canonically the Rikudō Rinne is Buddah power (odd since everything else is greek based in that manga for obvious reasons), not Shaka

So I fear it is not escaping there

ペガサス Seiya

So either Shaka manages to access it just in time, or Goku blitzes and punches Shaka. I think the former is more likely. Goku rarely blitzes unless he's pissed off, and if Shaka just says "hey wait look at my awesome new technique, its really strong" Goku will just go "okay sure" and wait for Shaka

@ペガサスSeiya basically.

Like I said before, I fear that Goku would even wait to be blasted by the Akkumaitokosen again to see if he can resist.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon As strong as Goku is, his character flaws just spell his end in battles like these. If Goku was as cunning as say, someone like Itachi, Goku vs Shaka wouldn't even be a debate.

Unrelated String

11:16 AM

@SPArcheon not being adequately familiar with saint seiya to think of a different "ikki", for a second or two my mind was greeted with the very funny image of this guy somehow holding his own in some kind of massively powerscaled shounen fight

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@ペガサスSeiya BTW, in case you were interested, the debate with "Toon force / reality bending" G5 started with Kaido but went "boom" with chapter 1070.

Specifically, when he pulls out a pair of sunglasses either from hammerspace or by turning his own hair into sunglasses.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon I've debated a guy on Math.SE, where I'm from, about Luffy vs Naruto because of this. He really likes One Piece so we've debated often

Unrelated String

@SPArcheon ...come to think of it, that's actually kind of the outcome she subverted, judging from sayaka's line about being "part of a larger being"

still an interesting line of speculation though

though it would obviously not be on equal standing

(in the case of the original possibility, versus a hypothetical future)

11:49 AM

Now... I am struggling to remember the name of an anime I once saw that ended in a similar way.

Fantasy/demential, Guru Guru style. I remember that in one of the last episode one of the two main characters is discovered to be in love with the other one (who never noticed). And I think they actually end up fused in a single entity.

Can't remember the name.

I only remember an angel character that had a name with "angel" in it.

For some reason I was thinking of "Cross Angel" but that doesn't seem like it.

Unrelated String

doesn't ring any bells but sounds interesting

lmk if you find it

12:45 PM

Found! the name just came to mind at random.

Happy Lucky Bikkuriman.

@UnrelatedString ^ I don't think you will be able to find it anywhere.

When I first saw it, it was in another language.

I only know of two countries who aired it outside Japan:

Italy and France.

That's because it is a promotional anime based on some candy products...

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Furthermore, I think Italy aired it once, realized late that the character who loved the other protagonist is also a male (despite the appearance) and never aired that again because homophobia

To put that into context, IF my memory serves

user image

The character on the right is a male.

even if he looks like a mix of Arale and Riku from Made In Abyss.

and now that I see that again, I don't remember the actual ending. Either the two character fuses somehow or the one with the glasses becomes a goddess (unclear if he stays a MALE goddess or if he actually switches gender)

Good luck finding the plot anywhere online

0

Q: Umineko is NOT spoiling Higurashi because Umineko is meant to be after Higurashi?

When I say Higurashi, I mean Higurashi s1 & Higurashi Kai, not Higurashi Gou or Higurashi Sotsu. There are some people who watch/read Umineko before Higurashi. Even just from the 1st arc of Umineko, they will totally be spoiled for, well, not all but about half of Higurashi right? It doesn't sa...

higurashi-when-they-cry umineko-when-they-cry reference-request

funny thing: Multiple version of the angel exist, like you have multiple versions of Dark Magician Girl (head canon: they are sisters). One of the various versions looks like this.

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Because of the "swimsuit armor" and the general vibe, I originally assumed it was something from Toriyama, probably Dragon Quest.

That said, apparently it is still remembered in Japan.

twitter.com/hashtag/…

2 hours later…

ペガサス Seiya

2:57 PM

Pegasus Seiya vs Sailor Moon

I think Seiya wins

1 hour later…

4:05 PM

@ペガサスSeiya make it fair... Seiya VS Sailor Saturn...

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon make it sailor cosmos and Seiya still wins

@ペガサスSeiya depends on the availability of a Chibiusa nearby.

See: first rule of Forest.

Jan 19 at 22:21, by forest

The power of yuri beats anything.

Jokes aside, I don't really know the serie so I will leave that one to someone else.

That said be aware that Hotaru is also class 2C, same as Pegasus on that wiki, with the difference that her page basically states that she may be above that but info are inconclusive.

the manga did indeed name her a "menace to all existing" because her role is basically Beerus one, but on a multi-universe range

ペガサス Seiya

4:21 PM

@SPArcheon Alright fine, Goku comes out of no where and one shots both vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Son_Goku_(Xeno) @SPArcheon

I will wait for whatever lurks on the bottom of the Abyss.

Based on how horrible everything is so far, whatever is down there will eat Azathoth for breakfast.

otherwise, just ask Junji Ito for something "nice".

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon there are beings on VSBattles wiki that make Azathoth a slave

to be fair, he is already tier 0

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon and there are other tier 0 beings stronger than him there

Dragon Ball and Saint Seiya are probably the stronger Tier-2 universes on that site so I doubt sailor moon could stand a chance

4:48 PM

I didn't want to come to this...

The final cheat move.

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well past Toon Force.

He wields the Meme Force.

5:11 PM

or even worse.

Bo-bobo.

All the incommensurate idiocy and 4th wall breaking powers of Pinkie, but he actually fights too.

ペガサス Seiya

@SPArcheon Meme-verse characters are broken

We have Ultra Instinct Shaggy, Drip Goku, Bugs Bunny and more

@ペガサスSeiya oh, there is worse.

You also have things like Conqueror Haki Fluttershy and Puella Magi Twilight.

Even more absurd, the second one has at least one "canon" version.

GratefulDisciple

6:04 PM

@ペガサスSeiya Re: this : Q would fit the definition of a "troll". But he has a soft side for humans though, thus trolling Picard because he's curious about humanity.

ペガサス Seiya

@GratefulDisciple he seems stronger than christian God too

Unrelated String

6:45 PM

though the name actually does sound vaguely familiar :P
(probably from having heard of the candy, granted)

Apparently there are many candy based show.

Shinra Bansho is another one.

Even made into figures.

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apparently megahouse.

Saw this once on amazon.

About... 250$

Unrelated String

wow

2 hours later…

ペガサス Seiya

8:37 PM

@SPArcheon goku beats her

8:52 PM

0

Q: Why does Keyaru refuse to heal the 2nd time?

Why doesn't Keyaru just voluntarily do all the healing that would be forced upon anyway? It seems like Keyaru could still secretly get strength / powers while healing and then still do the same revenge plan. Why suffer in the dungeon (AGAIN)? Guesses: Part of the plan to frame Renado / Leonard? ...

9:17 PM

0

Q: Erasing Flare is really Keyaru's revenge?

It appears Keyaru just rapes Flare exactly once (as Flare) and then erases Flare to become Freia. What's the point? Well yeah now you're getting your revenge on Flare's BODY. I don't see the actual revenge on Flare. Why not just continue to drag Flare around as still Flare? Like somehow Keyaru, ...

0

Q: Why doesn't Keyaru just defeat Flare after the demon king (Eve Reese?)?

The only reason I can think of for using the philosopher's stone to go back in time is that Keyaru couldn't defeat Flare. Or maybe 'defeat' is like...Keyaru is powerful enough to kill Flare but isn't powerful enough to subdue Flare for the full revenge that Keyaru desires and so Keyaru really goe...

ペガサス Seiya

9:27 PM

Namek Goku being the Best Goku for around three minutes

as soon as i started watching that i was more thinking of this

DragonBall Z Abridged: Episode 21 - TeamFourStar (TFS)

same scene exists in TFS's version but it's just to the tune of Hulk Hogan's theme, it's not to the next episode we get more Space Duck = Krillin

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Jan '2323

Maid Café (メイド喫茶)

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