Perfect answer, +100 if I could. I have cousins this age and after reading this, I can see that it's exactly what their parents do, and it definitely works.

that's horrifying, treating the children like animals instead of people

@naiad Can you explain your concern? I don’t know much about animals, but I don’t at all understand the connection you’re making here. I would say that to the extent I know how people train animals, this answer intends the opposite: teach why to do or not do things, rather than just setting up rules and penalties for breaking them (which is similar to how I imagine animal training goes). As stated in the answer, this method doesn’t work for everyone - but for some, it works very well.

Sometimes it is about the truth. Telling the truth is a good lesson to be taught.

My point was that asking is not always a trap, sometimes it's an opportunity to shine. I like your approach in general, but not the part of your answer that says asking is a lie. You can't give them the chance to do the right thing, without giving them the chance to do the wrong thing.

I think that while for some kids that approach will work, that in general there are better ways to encourage honesty than testing them in this manner, particularly at age five.

Superb approach.

While I generally agree with your answer, your game-theoretic part does not seem to hold water. Usually, there are different negative rewards for different kinds of bad behavior and lying is one of those behaviors (withholding information might be another). Punishment for lying might be much higher than the punishment for doing something wrong. High enough to dissuade her from trying, as the mean long-term gains would be negative.

@Ark-kun While that in theory might be true, you forget that at age five kids don’t think long term very well. They mostly think in the now, so avoiding definite consequences, even for maybe worse consequences, is a logical choice.

This technique looks nice on paper, but seems quite limited. The life is full of scenarios where the actions only hurt other people and there are no consequences/feedback apart from possibly [state imposed] physical punishment. What wold you do if she broke all the toys of her younger/older sibling? What if she burned her study books? Ruined your documents and passports? Would it be enough of a "punishment" to just tell her that because of her actions she won't be able to go on vacation in 8 months?

The fundamental problem is that child's values and parent's values are different. In the areas, that the child values less than the parents do, the child to manipulate his parents by taking himself "hostage".

I'm legitimately curious, where in this parenting style does actual discipline come into play? I see where consequences come in, but not responsibility for one's own actions.

↑ for the "Lying and getting caught = bad. Telling the truth = bad." part, couldn't agree more.

@MrDuk This answer is saying that the discipline is part of the problem. "All that said, the other elephant in the room is why she's lying: because she's worried about being punished. A system of discipline that does not focus on punishment, but instead focuses on development and understanding whys, encourages a child to accurately describe even things they did wrong: because they know you're not going to punish them, but instead you're going to help them learn more about why they should make a different choice in the future."

It sounds nice in theory, but the question remains, where does it leave room for any discipline at all? I'd love a follow-up if his children are older than 5, explaining whether or not they take responsibility for doing something wrong. To me, that's equally as important as not doing the wrong thing to begin with.

This is how I parent (2 grown) and the "discipline" is in interceding, teaching, helping them understand how they impact others, how it makes them feel when they do something they later regret or feel embarrassed about. We discuss how others will view them if they act in these ways, etc. When all you know is reward or punishment it can be hard to accept neither are needed to raise good, kind, empathetic, productive people. If it interests you legitimately read Hold Onto Your Kids by Neufeld and Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn, & that will more than cover the how & why for ALL children.

Sorry realized I didn't say 5 kids total, 3 young, 2 grown & the 2 older ones came to be as older adoptees with lots of issues. I have yet to meet a child that I believe cannot be effectively disciplined without the use of punishment or rewards. It takes a lot of conscious effort to not fall back into the patterns you know from your own life and peers, but it's more than worth it in results. My children are totally open with me and I know what is going on almost all the time, even as teens, even with the "big" things. They come to me for advice, they trust I can be that for them.

I'm pretty sure I read something similar to this in the book "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen" (found via a book recommendation on parenting.SE)

@jmoreno It's not lying if he just asked, but he's saying that it's not important whether the kid did it or not. Of course, as we all know, and even the kid knows, that's a lie.

@Joe The standard example to why lying is not always the best/moral thing to do is to prevent the 1942 situation "yes officer, of course I am hiding Jews in my basement, not lying about that" ;)

@Ark-kun the child's values and the parent's are different? You seem to be arguing for this answer rather than against it. If you start from that premise (and I agree with you) then it quickly becomes apparent that questions in the form of "did you do X?" are stupid: you are as a parent actively encouraging those value systems to diverge by asking it.