CG&CC-gaming

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Nathan Merrill

03:23

@DJMcMayhem was it a power build? A focus build?

a little bit of both?

1 hour later…

DJMcMayhem

04:48

@NathanMerrill Mostly powers.

That was nice with the healing relic, and with inserter and the card that summons a lightning for each power let me get a lot of damage

At one point I managed to get 150 block lol

@NathanMerrill If you like, I could go into game stats and share some of it with you

Martin Ender

You could upload your run to spirelogs

DJMcMayhem

Ok, I'll look into that in an hour or so.

It was a pretty solid run. I think act 2 was harder than act 1 haha

Err 3

2 was harder than 3 I meant

Oh yeah, I also relied pretty heavily on buffer

7 hours later…

Nathan Merrill

11:29

@DJMcMayhem nah, I'm very familiar with this build. It's my favorite on defect

I still recommend spirelogs, just because it's useful data :)

5 hours later…

DJMcMayhem

16:17

@NathanMerrill spirelogs.com/viewrun.php?run=649801

1 hour later…

Nathan Merrill

17:41

Floor 1: I think Storm was the wrong choice. Sweeping beam is a great AoE (and you need damage for Act 1). The only reason it worked is because you got lucky with Creative AI later.
Floor 8: I would have picked Bullseye. You have lots of orb damage, and bullseye lets you take down important enemies earlier.
Floor 12: Both recursion and multicast are amazing here. Recursion helps you keep your dark orb around longer and multicast is just tons of damage. Even rainbow isn't a bad pickup.
Floor 17: Ectoplasm is way better than Eternal Feather here. You already have a decent amount of go…

Veskah

18:30

VVVVVV and Super Hexagon's creator's new game just launched, Dicey Dungeon

You play a Die going dungeon spelunkin'

OST by the same dude who did Super Hexagon's as well (not sure if he did VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV)

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill Wow that's a lot of comments

The main reason I stayed alive was buffer

Veskah

Rebound -> Streamline in a thin deck is pretty saweet though

DJMcMayhem

I suppose you're right that frozen eye isn't super helpful if I don't have draw cards, but creative ai ended up getting me lots of card draw

Although I still didn't really take advantage of frozen eye as much as I could have

Veskah

18:45

Hmm, I should check if the workshop has a character whose card pool is just all 3 mushed together. Not sure what their starter relic/deck would be though

Because that could be fun/silly

Nathan Merrill

@Veskah I don't even think that's true. It spends all of your energy the first turn to use, and it's not even that much damage. And that all depends on getting them together. (I'm biased: I don't like Streamline very much. I'll pick it up in the first couple of fights, otherwise, I won't)

@DJMcMayhem oh yeah. No criticism with Buffer here. It's so good.

Veskah

Yeah, I'd agree. RB -> SL's biggest problem is that RB -> any card is usually pretty sweet. RB -> FTL all day if I could

Nathan Merrill

I also like Hologram quite a bit, especially with buffer. It lets you not immediately play buffer, but wait for the big turns before playing it

Because buffer is so fragile

Veskah

Mmm, nothing like having it popped by 1 damage getting through

I definitely have spent several energy on insufficient blocking before realizing I have insufficient block to save the buffer

Nathan Merrill

Yeah. I do wish the game will allow an undo as long as no random elements have appeared

Like, calculate the block of my cards before deciding what to do

Martin Ender

19:39

@Veskah Just watched a trailer and I have no clue what's going on.

Is it basically StS with dice instead of cards?

Veskah

20:06

I think?

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill That's my biggest complaint

The game design is absolutely fantastic, but the controls suck, and it's a tad buggy at times. And no undo is really weird for a card inspired game

Every board game port I've ever played allows some undo. And SotM actually allows up to 3-4 turns of undo, even if randomness was introduced. I like that approach more because then it's up to the player to decide if they want to "cheat" or not

Nathan Merrill

I disagree with that last point :)

One Deck Dungeon actually did a fantastic job of this

you can undo moves I wouldn't expect to be able to undo (like descending to the next level), but also intentionally makes the random moves obvious (when you chose an action that rolls dice, it places the dice unrolled, letting you undo before you actually roll them)

DJMcMayhem

Agreed

But almost any approach is better than "no undo ever for any reason"

Nathan Merrill

oh yeah. There actually is an undo in StS, but it's clunky and allows for cheating, so I don't generally use it

If you exit the game, midfight, you can restart the fight. Whenever I use this, I ensure I make the exact same card choices, up until the actual turn I want to undo

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill Oh yeah, that's true. Again, the technical implementation of StS is the worst part of an otherwise awesome game

You can also undo reward choices

Nathan Merrill

20:20

oh, that's way more usable too

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill It's pretty easy to cheat in most board/card games. But generally I don't cause it cheapens the experience. I don't see why a port is that different

I suppose for a game intended for PC instead of real cards it's a tad different

Nathan Merrill

I'd even argue for all board game ports to enforce rules. this is one of my biggest complaints with tabletop simulator

I also prefer physical games that naturally enforce rules as much as possible

DJMcMayhem

Hmm, how so? Do you know of games that do that?

That's generally less of an issue for competitive games, since you have no reason to let your opponent cheat

Nathan Merrill

Exactly. Single player games is obviously impossible. But for most games, cheating should be difficult with opponents

An example of a game that doesn't do this well is Bonanza. You are forced to keep the cards in your hand in a certain order

but nobody enforces that, because they can't see your hand

DJMcMayhem

But do you know of any co-operative games that naturally discourage cheating?

Nathan Merrill

20:31

There's no way to stop all of the players from agreeing to cheat

obviously :)

But in Pandemic, all moves are out in the open, so any move can be criticized by the rest of the players

Martin Ender

It might work for something semi-cooperative where each player has their own hidden agenda. I'll be playing Nemesis in about a week's time, so if I remember I'll try to pay attention to whether that game naturally discourages cheating.

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill Pandemic also 99% of the time has no new information revealed during your turn, so I've always played that no moves are set in stone until you end your turn. I don't know if that's technically allowed or not

Nathan Merrill

Oh yeah, we allow undos until cards are drawn as well

DJMcMayhem

Has anyone here ever played Hanabi? That's probably one of the hardest cooperative games I've ever played

Martin Ender

yeah

Nathan Merrill

20:40

My sister owns it, but no

Martin Ender

only once, I think

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