@quartata See, you say OW lacks depth, I say League and Dota are overwhelmingly complicated. I appreciate how you can play OW more casually and still have a decent understanding of how different heroes interact and counter each other without having to get a degree in Mobas

And I've never felt like there's not enough depth

I get that there's appeal absolutely

I'm just saying I don't think Overwatch will have the depth for people to sink thousands of hours into it without a good group of friends

I'd absolutely agree with that, but I've never really wanted a game to sink thousands of hours into

And I think TF2 has waaay less depth than OW

@quartata I agree, you wouldn't ever see a scout with the above loadout, especially in competitive

@DJMcMayhem what do you mean by depth?

Strategies to learn I guess?

skill ceiling?

Yes, but from a strategic perspective more than a reflexes perspective

Overwatch has breadth, not depth. It has many initial choices for your hero but then fewer choices in how you play them

yea

TF2's humble Soldier can be played in like 3 different ways without unlocks, and then even more branches with unlocks

I mean: is there much difference between having 6 heroes that can play 5 different ways, or 30 heroes?

sees "golf it" on Steam

damnit it doesn't have actual golfing

you can transition from 1 playstyle easier than from a character

@NathanMerrill Yes there is well not really

@NathanMerrill Numerically they may be equivalent but the former appeals more to my lizard brain

but that isn't the only difference

well, of course. I'd call the game a rip off if that was the only difference

I think TF2 has more choices than that though

well, just thinking about CS:Go, the only thing that defines what your role is are the weapons you buy, right?

CS is a different beast

@NathanMerrill There are some qualities inherent to a character like health or run speed that playstyle can't change

@NathanMerrill :| so every sequel is a ripoff?

A lot of the variety comes from the maps and your enemies

@quartata I was just thinking about it in the "1 character lots of playstyles" sense

@ASCII-only "only difference". If all you do is change 1 thing, then yeah, its a ripoff

bigbug 2 - we changed the number on the box

Valve better not fudge the pyro update

high hopes, low expectations

tbf one of the reasons I don't play TF2 much anymore is that dota offers like 112 * 2 * 6 choices that are viables and tons more thar are not

the "not" being the best part of the game

i don't play TF2 much because custom servers are almost empty, casual pits you up with the brand new and the 1000 hour, and there's no way in hell I'm paying for competitive

@quartata the game is so massive, it's worth every cent without a sale

@quartata "enginar", borrowed from Pontic Greek

Infinifactory is hard

Makes me feel like I'm using Java D: so much boilerplate and so ungolfy

haha

I still need to finish that one some day

btw, don't bother optimising yet. the components you unlock later will be available in earlier levels and you often can't reach optimal scores without these.

@MartinEnder I've actually ignored that fact. I've refused to go back and optimize, so I always do all 3 optimizations, then move on

@quartata I'm already closing in on 200 and I've played all but maybe 10 hours of that solo queued.

@betseg Huh, that's a surprisingly different word. I was curious to see if it shared a root or something

Now that I think about it I don't know the origin of the English word either...

says we borrowed it from Italian

@AdmBorkBork I believe that. I'm not saying that it's a boring game - it'll take at least 400 hours to play every hero on every map. But I don't think Overwatch will be able to create enough content to keep itself alive for a decade and keep players engaged without some significant design choices -- they're already struggling to add new heroes that aren't DPS. For TF2 unlocks were that choice.

Every time Blizzad wants to add new non-cosmetic content, they can either retool a hero, add a new hero or add a new map (gamemodes are just collections of similar maps). That's not a lot of options for expansion, and it comes from its breadth

@MartinEnder Yeah, I know lol I'm trying to unlock all components first before cheating off the internet trying to figure out how to do the first one in 24 cycles O_o even the non-optimal one looks horrendously complicated

TF2 has a similar problem, in that they've exhausted one of the directions they can expand in: they have too many weapons.

@quartata they could do what Dota 2 did and retool all heroes.

I'm still baffled that they managed to pull that off

when they released the skill trees, that was such a huge patch

@quartata I dunno. For starters, it is a Blizzard game, so they'll have a lengthy tail just for that reason (I mean, people still play Diablo II ladders).

Will it be as popular as DOTA or LoL? Probably not. Will it have a longer tail than BF1 or CoD? Probably.

Haha, true.

To shift topics to another ridiculously popular game, anyone else here play PUBG?

@Mego Me

Heathen.

I haven't played Halo either ;_;

I've never been interested in shooters. I once got Crysis 2 from a bundle, and started it, but quickly quit

that's literally the only shooter I've ever played

well, and portal

Portal isn't a shooter

oh! Looking at my games list, I've played sanctum

and sanctum 2

those were fun

@NathanMerrill I'm sorry that was your introduction to shooters. :-(

oooh. and Mirror's Edge

I actually tried really hard to do a Mirror's Edge runthrough without killing anybody

So, you enjoy playing shooter-not-shooters

but there's a particular level that's impossible without a bug exploit

I really like Mirror's Edge. I've never actually gone through the entire game, but the world design is just fantastic

Shame Mirror's Edge 2 is really not good

does skyrim count? You have crossbows

oh! If I were to recommend a game to you all, it would be Majesty (1)

my all-time favorite rts game

it's fantastic because you don't control any of your heroes, and each of the types have their own personalities

@AdmBorkBork PUBG is Windows only :(

@quartata So far. It's coming to Xbone later this year (and likely PS4 after, but they're being cagey about that).

@AdmBorkBork wat

I like mirrors edge overall, but it was a very frustrating experience

@DJMcMayhem frustrating?

I can agree with that. There were several spots that required really precise movements

Console ports of FPSs are never as good

I can't risk $30 on a game that may or may not run on Wine

Why not dual boot :P

If it was $5 I'd risk it

@ASCII-only massive waste of disk space IMO

like, when you were in the big mall and you had to go into the ceiling and make this impossibly far jump

I don't care that much

@quartata :/ 5 GB isn't a right

@quartata can't you check on playonlinux

WineHQ isn't always right

but PlayOnLinux isn't WineHQ :P (also it isn't there apparently)

@ASCII-only The game just had some poor design choices imo. Like putting a long cutscene or QTE right before a difficult jump you keep dying on, and then forcing you to rewatch it Everytime you died. Or not saving your progress in the steam cloud and forcing you to redo the tutorial a bunch of times

Stuff like that

@DJMcMayhem oh, you talking about the fight scene with the fat dude?

that is frustratingly hard

he isn't fat. He's muscular

still, he's huge

Okay so do I 1. get overwatch, 2. get other things instead because overwatch is so expensive, 3. wait till quartata finishes crawling steam for everyone's library and then get whatever I need to

@ASCII-only Mirror's Edge, Portal, Skyrim ... those have shooter elements, but none of them are shooters

@AdmBorkBork oh lol I thought you said shooter-not-shooters

Also, Overwatch will likely have another sale in a month or two here

where?

Straight from Blizzard

They'll have a free-play weekend, and they'll have a discount with that weekend.

I would expect it to be around November 18th or maybe the 25th

So I have plenty of time then :P

@Mego Wait are you streaming right now

@Mego (cc @DJMcMayhem) played Axiom Verge a bit more. after 4 hours of gameplay or so, the game did get a bit more engaging in terms of story and lore, and it certainly has a few interesting new mechanics for metroidvania games. still doesn't surpass any of the other MVs I've played, but at least it's getting a bit better.

@Mego Steam just said you started playing Dark Souls three times in a row

Oh yeah I need to write that script

I don't think we really need a new group since almost everyone here is in it so I can just pull the IDs I need to include from there

In the mean tine ping me if you need an invite since Alex is too busy being super cool Julia CM person

@betseg @ASCII-only I believe are the two that need it

which game

@betseg steam group not a game :P

oh

@quartata pls give invite ty

Oh and @NathanMerrill

@ASCII-only you'll have to wait 80% of 20% of 6-8 weeks

@quartata :/ ok

so 1 to 4/3 weeks

@ASCII-only no but what's your steam ID

@quartata somebody_cares

hue hue

@quartata :| what's so funny

ok I guess I have to friend you for this to work

so

accept pls

Oh OK here we go

Once I sent the invite I could do it??? lol

like without you accepting the friend invite I could send the group invite

@ASCII-only anyways should all be there

> 8

10/10 best username ever

I change my username like every 2 days

my steam id is really creative

Nice latest achievements :P

@betseg betseg

@Mego pls fix your mic volume :P

@betseg ok one sec

done

spooky you accepted it without being online???

hm

steam app isnt open

accepted from chrome :P

@quartata lol we have the same steam level :P

@quartata pls accept steam group membership request ty

mine too plz

@ASCII-only ? I already sent you one didn't I

OK so as it turns out

Alex set up the group permissions wrong, he made it so that only the owner can accept invites rather than the owner and officers

So we're pretty much screwed, he hasn't been on Steam in about a year and he's not pingable

guess we're doing a new group after all

Discord Server for Voice chat!

gross discord

do I even have one of those things

let me check

Do you just hate everything? :P

IHE

It's already in the room description, but I figure this will have more visibility

I like Miaou better is all

although really I'd prefer if we just used IRC

Never heard of it

the Internet was a mistake

ok so I don't know what email address I used for this

ok I found which email address I used, it was the one I thought I did

so I guess that means I don't know the password

You can do voice with IRC?

I didn't think so

@AdmBorkBork no I was just memeing

although IRC is definitely the most superior text chat format

Yeah, I agree with that.

From what I can tell my Discord is haunted and constantly making beeps

pls no

OK so does anyone want to bother to email Alex or should we just make a new group

Make a new group

Ok I will

steamcommunity.com/groups/ppcg2

Already did it @quartata

Steam Group

@quartata steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=760536448 i thought i was good at riki XD

wtf

My riki guide?

Yes

The sad thing is i played carry riki for 19 games as KDR was pretty good

I had a 22/3 riki game

That's because no one buys dust at 2k mmr

Riki makes brain hurt

Uhh 2k?

What is sentry ward pls help

That is a nice expectation for me a year ago

opendota.com/matches/2583852632

27k net worth riki with 98 LH

The game went for an hour and only 98 CS lulz

500 MMR

XD

I was playing with 500 mmr people that early??????!

Wow

You probably calibrated there

500 MMR is bottom of the barrel hue

I mean I still don't have ranked unlocked

Programming Puzzles and Code Gol

@quartata look at my lion game opendota.com/matches/3420845325

@betseg uh oh

it ran out of room

@betseg i fix

Actual steam group is here

You do not have the required permissions to access that group feature.

What feature?

you linked /edit, that page says ^^

Ohh i fixed

Should it be public or private?

dunno

I accepted whoever requested to join

Ahh you

im the dictator of the roman republic

oh

makes sense

wanna join SPQR

steamcommunity.com/groups/OfficialSPQR

I don't speak that language

neither do i

made the group just for lulz

XD

steamcommunity.com/groups/ppcg2/discussions/0/…

description part is copied from latin wikipedia

ahh

@DJMcMayhem I made the steam group since the last one is inactive here

Hrm I can't remember how to get the price of an app from the API

we should play golf games

Links, Jack Nicklaus Golf, Tiger Woods PGA Tour

I really liked the Tiger Woods game on the GameCube.

OK so I pretty much have the Steam IDs of everyone here so I'm just going to feed them in by hand rather than scraping the group

Now I just need to find my API key it's here somewhere

@quartata What are you putting a list together about? Common games we all own?

Multiplayer games that at least one person owns sorted by how much money it would take to get everyone who doesn't have one a copy

obviously free games will be at the top, I might put those in a separate list

Yeah dota would win

Who should I add as a officer for the steam group? I am thinking of 1 or two since i can't be online all the time

i have dota on my list but not on my disk

and played about 10 hours

That is a problem you should fix

which one

Both

I have ~300 hours of dota recorded

@DJMcMayhem should we pin the steam group?

i have almost 1k hours in csgo

I saw

Honestly not sure if we need the steam group that much

It will help with game coordination

It would be nice if we could get Alex to fix the old one but there aren't many benefits

Yeah but didn't Alex leave PPCG?

@2EZ4RTZ I can just post a steam:// link

@quartata meh

I don't think you can invite a group to a game anyways

meh

@2EZ4RTZ idk

@DJMcMayhem Well you made the room so that is your job :P

@2EZ4RTZ no he's just pretty inactive here for now

@ASCII-only Ah