This Is Fine

Tim Stone

12:36 AM

Does it involve pets and also absolutely not

Unionhawk

12:52 AM

filed to "people who definitely care about The Party", joe lieberman's piece on why you should vote for joe crowley

Also I was correct earlier:

Nearly four years after he shot and killed #LaquanMcDonald in October 2014, and almost three years after the video was released in December 2015, Chicago police officer Jason Van Dyke is now set to stand trial this summer. https://twitter.com/Suntimes/status/1019240390807969793

Tweeted by myblackmindd on July 17, 2018 at 4:42 PM

(he is being charged with one count of first degree murder and sixteen counts of aggravated battery with a firearm)

(one for each bullet he fired)

GodEmperorDune

1:21 AM

@TimStone yes it does involve pets

Tim Stone

2:31 AM

Pres. Trump tells Tucker Carlson "Montenegro is a tiny country...they are very aggressive people" (Below Trump w/ Montenegro PM last year) https://t.co/AAHfECmCbV

Tweeted by rabrowne75 on July 18, 2018 at 2:16 AM

Tim Stone

2:49 AM

Trump says he's bothered by provisions of NATO that require the US to come to the defense of other member countries. https://t.co/2xY1FjBTSn

Tweeted by atrupar on July 18, 2018 at 12:15 AM in reply to atrupar

(video including the bit above)

Tim Stone

3:00 AM

Hey WH press Corps, can you confirm tomorrow with @PressSec that Putin discussed me personally in his one on one with Trump? Did he suggest that I was part of some alleged money laundering scheme? And did Trump push back on this completely invented , whacko idea?

Tweeted by McFaul on July 18, 2018 at 12:47 AM

Memor-X

@TimStone correct me if i'm wrong but that's the Article 5 thing isn't it. that was only ever invoked after 9/11 for the US?

and i could be grossly wrong about that

Tim Stone

Yes, though there was some hand-wringing over whether planes counted as an "armed attack" I think

Memor-X

@TimStone about that plane Russina supplied rebels shot down a couple years back?

Tim Stone

No, after 9/11

A former UKIP councillor is found guilty of murdering his wife and THIS is the actual response from the former leader of UKIP at the council.

Tweeted by stephenpaton134 on July 17, 2018 at 10:10 PM

🤔

Memor-X

3:19 AM

@TimStone ahhhhh. well i guess by that logic Japan had the right idea back in World War 2 with the Kamikaze then

Tim Stone

A @SecretService agent who accompanied @POTUS to Europe suffered a stroke Sunday in #Scotland and has died.

Tweeted by W7VOA on July 18, 2018 at 3:20 AM

Memor-X

3:38 AM

Japan, EU sign agreement to eliminate tariffs between them http://hill.cm/YrHoeIi

Tweeted by thehill on July 18, 2018 at 12:31 AM

see, didn't need a "Trade War"

Tim Stone

4:21 AM

Drama unfolding real fast these days

Memor-X

@TimStone to be honest it's not surprising

GodEmperorDune

wow

how do they not have PR interns checking such things?

Tim Stone

dawg they are 100000% reading those tweets by josh hader right now lmfaooooo https://t.co/08LTJWjMeA

Tweeted by AllaireMatt on July 18, 2018 at 3:21 AM

“Highly Unusual Circumstances: ... This category was employed in the three instances [i.e. related to Michael Cohen] under review.” https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4609297-Treasury-IG-Memo-to-Wyden-Michael-Cohen-SARS.html via @JasonLeopold

Tweeted by nycsouthpaw on July 18, 2018 at 4:23 AM

Cohen FinCEN files were indeed restricted, not destroyed

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone when your crimes are so out there that not even regular law enforcement can handle it

Tim Stone

Yeah doesn't necessarily help the leaker's case here though since the purpose is to avoid people looking at things they shouldn't be and they noticed they weren't there because they went looking, heh

Unionhawk

4:32 AM

Folks, I'd get banned forever for posting it here so definitely uh, don't, look at my last retweet for the actual greatest seventeen seconds of video I've ever witnessed from the proud boy meetup in LA 2 days ago

GodEmperorDune

@Unionhawk WOOOOOOOOOOOW

i gotta watch spencer get punched as a palate cleanser

did y'all see the elon musk/leonard nimoy on simpsons crossover pic?

Unionhawk

4:47 AM

@GodEmperorDune it's amazing

Just, truly

Memor-X

6:49 AM

Trump now says no 'time limit' to denuclearise North Korea http://bit.ly/2uFMdnN

Tweeted by SBSNews on July 18, 2018 at 5:15 AM

Mad Scientist

10:42 AM

Trump fundamentally undermines NATO, suggests 'aggressive' Montenegro may attack Russia to start World War III

it'll probably take more than one president to repair all the damage he's causing

Memor-X

12:18 PM

@MadScientist or he just destroys everything that the US is practically reset, all history erased, a new begining

or he ends his presidency with the Black Gates of Mordor built on the Mexican Border and thus the US wont have a new president, it'll have a Dark Lord

Unionhawk

12:56 PM

donald trump is going to forge the one ring and take over hogwarts and turn it freakin orange folks

Wipqozn

1:36 PM

@MadScientist to be honest I'll never trust the United States again in my lifetime unless some major changes happen. Trump is just a symptom of a larger problem, and at the end of the day the American people voted him in. I can't trust them anymore to be a reliable ally due to this.

Nzall

@Wipqozn It's somewhat more complicated. Trump became president because his campaign targeted the underbelly of America: the poor, undereducated working class who saw their work and lifestyle threatened by climate change, increased automation of the simplistic jobs and low skill low pay workers from abroad. The problem is not that America elected him, but rather that America has an environment that encouraged people to elect him

Unionhawk

"america is great because america is good" versus "actually there are some problems to fix" is honestly a thing that happened

Nzall

This was further compounded with the fact that the Democrats actively worked to prevent the nomination of Bernie Sanders, whose progressive socialist policies would have provided an alternative answer to that working class section

Unionhawk

like

Yuuki

@MadScientist Montenegro may attack Russia?

wat

Nzall

1:47 PM

@Yuuki Isn't the NATO a defensive pact, as in it only gets invoked when the attacked nation didn't strike first?

Yuuki

Montenegro, the country with a population of <650,000 and ~50 times smaller than Texas might attack Russia, a former superpower.

@Nzall Reading what I can find on Article 5's language, actually no.

Wipqozn

@Nzall Hence Trump being a symptom of a larger problem

Yuuki

Although invoking Article 5 does not require a military response from all NATO signatories.

> With the invocation of Article 5, Allies can provide any form of assistance they deem necessary to respond to a situation. This is an individual obligation on each Ally and each Ally is responsible for determining what it deems necessary in the particular circumstances.

source

Unionhawk

That's been the most frustrating difference between the democrats and republicans, the republicans have a clear answer to all of everyone's problems. Their answer is bullshit and wrong, but they at least have a consistent message and solutions to everything

cut everything to the bone, lower taxes, nationalism++

Nzall

@Wipqozn Yes, but the problem isn't Trump, or the Voters, but rather that the current era we live in is a period of social and economical upheaval. Populism happens everywhere, not just the USA. Brexit, Le Pen, that guy in Austria, Wilders, De Wever,... Every western country is more or less affected by this instability, and every country responds differently.

Wipqozn

1:57 PM

@Nzall the voters absolutely are to blame.

Unionhawk

all we ever get out of the libs is shit like let's develop more consumer choices for healthcare so you can choose the plan that works best for you, and shop around for the right ambulance company to save money

or whatever the fuck

Wipqozn

As is trump

Unionhawk

better skills for better jobs

Nzall

@Wipqozn The voters just wanted an answer to the upheaval threatening their very culture, and Trump just was someone who provided a valid answer

Valid for them at least

Unionhawk

well, a wrong answer, but an answer indeed

a simple one

Wipqozn

1:59 PM

@Nzall yeah but it was a bullshit answer. I hold people responsible for being misinformed on issues.

Socioeconomic factors greatly contributed to it yes, but that doesn't give people a free pass on their shitty choices

Nor does it excuse people like Trump taking advantage of the situation

Nzall

@Wipqozn And that's where another aspect of the upheaval comes in: social media created an environment where people get far less competing or alternative opinions

It's a very complicated situation

Wipqozn

That's what Hitler did, and we certainly wouldn't excuse him because Germany was the right environment for him to thrive. Obviously Trump isn't Hitler, but its the same idea. Shitty people don't get a free pass for being shitty because they were given the right environment to thrive in.

Unionhawk

honestly 2016 was just a perfect storm of two absolutely awful candidates

Yuuki

I think it was more than just the two candidates, but sure.

Unionhawk

and a misplaced idea that there's no way we can lose these like four states the algorithm says we're going to win by 51%

Wipqozn

2:05 PM

@Unionhawk I agree with thar

Unionhawk

for every 1 working class voter we ignore we'll pick up 2 moderate suburban republicans, is also a thing that Definitely Happened

Wipqozn

Mobile woes

Unionhawk

half of it happened anyway

Wipqozn

But I agree Clinton was a pretty terrible candidate too.

Honestly that new York democrat who deseated that old white guy seems like she might be a great candidate to office

Yuuki

Hot take: Clinton may have been more problematic than the "average" presidential candidate, but she wasn't "pretty terrible".

She added Sanders's stance on education to her platform and I honestly think that alone makes her better than "pretty terrible".

There may not be a silver bullet to America's problems, but increased funding for education is pretty damn close to one.

Wipqozn

2:11 PM

@Yuuki yeah but this is from a Canadian perspective where Clinton is still too right for my liking

Tim Stone

How she would have been as President is different than her viability as a candidate though. Not all of her issues were her fault but like, you still have to win? So just ignoring that reality isn't effective

Wipqozn

Pretty terrible is probably too strong though

Yuuki

Also, saying Trump won because "well, Clinton was a terrible candidate" completely ignores a lot of the issues that helped get him elected.

Unionhawk

Yeah you don't get to be (probably) the second least popular presidential candidate ever and lose to literally donald trump and not be considered bad

Wipqozn

I was always a fan of Bernie since he's fairly left

Yuuki

2:12 PM

Because then you just shortcut to "well, let's just not choose Clinton this time".

And we have Trump for another four years.

@Unionhawk Other presidential candidates have actually lost the popular election though.

Wipqozn

Obama was the only US president I've approved of since I was old enough to be paying attention, aka since Bush

So like, 33% success rate ain't bad

1/3

Unionhawk

@Yuuki I'm not saying it was the only factor, but it certainly didn't help

And it's important to consider it as part of the analysis

We can't just go "well we just have to make sure Russia doesn't ruin things again", we can't just go "my opponent is bad" again, we have to really consider how we move past this moment

Yuuki

I'm not trying to single you out, but "the Democrats lost because Clinton sucks" is such a common sentiment I've seen that's definitely going to backfire in 2 years.

Tim Stone

The sentiment is more that the Democrats lost because the Democrats suck

Unionhawk

This is true

Tim Stone

2:17 PM

They aren't evil as hell, but they still suck

Unionhawk

how do we make the party not suck

is the age old question

that, probably won't reach an effective answer

god

Tim Stone

Charles "The only people to hold Trump in check are the Republicans we can't do anything" Schumer

Yuuki

One of the big problems is that campaigns behave like everyone knows the ramifications of a FPTP electoral system but the fact of the matter is that the general population doesn't really understand a FPTP electoral system.

That people vote for third-party candidates as a "protest vote" is an obvious sign of that.

Nzall

@Yuuki Ideally, they should just get rid of the FPTP system and change to the popular vote, but I don't know how possible that is

Yuuki

Constitutional amendment, so basically we're going to have to Civil War to fix it.

Unionhawk

2:20 PM

that would be electoral college and yes we should do that also

Nzall

There is this:

The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC) is an agreement among a group of U.S. states and the District of Columbia to award all their respective electoral votes to whichever presidential candidate wins the overall popular vote in the 50 states and the District of Columbia. The compact is designed to ensure that the candidate who wins the most popular votes is elected president, and it will come into effect only when it will guarantee that outcome. As of May 2018, it has been adopted by eleven states and the District of Columbia. Together, they have 172 electoral votes, which is 32...

which would effectively be that

Unionhawk

electoral college and the senate are two highly anti-democratic (as in against democracy) institutions that if I had unlimited power would be high on my chopping block

Tim Stone

What would you replace the Senate with though given that the House is dumb as hell?

Yuuki

@TimStone I mean, if I had unlimited power, I would just vote Giant Meteor 2020 and go find some other planet to live on.

Unionhawk

@TimStone compromise with a body that does full proportional representation by state

I dunno

Yuuki

2:27 PM

Look, they say that you have to take away two things for every one thing you add. So obviously since you're taking away two things, you have to add one thing.

Tim Stone

As a smaller project let's just combine the Dakotas and give Puerto Rico statehood

Unionhawk

Or we could just give the minority whip an actual whip and ensure actual unity in opposition

For now

Tim Stone

It's cost efficient and no one will complain because no one actually lives in either of those states

Yuuki

I propose the DICED (Department of ICE Detainment).

Unionhawk

As a compromise

Yuuki

2:28 PM

It's like Chopped but for ICE agents and at the end of the show, you just fire everyone instead of keeping one person.

puzzlepiece87

@GodEmperorDune From related links to 80,000 bees (topic unrelated):

> “What happened: the day I went to pay off my student loan at U of U, they put my receipt into the wrong stack, and two weeks later, a PhD diploma came in the mail. I didn’t even graduate, I only had about 3 years of college credit. In fact, I never did even learn what the letters “PhD” even stood for. For all of the Electronic Engineers I have worked with, I’m sorry, but you have to admit my designs always worked very well, and were well engineered, and I always made you laugh at work.”

Admitted in self-written obituary, never discovered.

Made me smile.

Tim Stone

Running WH driveway gauntlet, @KellyannePolls scolds press questions on Trump's "clarification" yesterday. "Why aren’t you covering everything that actually matters between Russia and the US...There’s more than election meddling," she said, citing North Korea and Syria.

Tweeted by markknoller on July 18, 2018 at 12:47 PM

rubs temples

I mean whether a foreign power has direct leverage over the President of the United States kind of matters more than anything since it could impact every single one of their decisions but okay

Yuuki

@TimStone We've colluded on more things than just election meddling, how can you not have seen these other things?

Tim Stone

I mean technically the solution is to just prevent him from doing things but Republicans aren't going to do that so

puzzlepiece87

@Memor-X Yes. If you're not familiar with the (white cop) Darren Wilson defense, it's that (black guy) Michael Brown looked like a demon. If I'm understanding you correctly about being about color. Black people have historically been compared to demons.

@Wipqozn As an American, never trusting the United States again due to underlying problems is the correct response.

Tim Stone

2:46 PM

On reports that White House Chief of Staff John Kelly accidentally turned off the lights during President Donald Trump's remarks in the Cabinet Room yesterday, Kellyanne Conway tells Fox News "He didn't do that," adding "Don't believe what you see."

Tweeted by juddzeez on July 18, 2018 at 12:22 PM

puzzlepiece87

@Nzall I really disagree with your explanation. If I remember correctly, Trump's supporters have a higher average income, broadly question climate change or our need to do anything about it, and are most highly predicted by attitudes towards minorities. They also have a very substantial support base in white evangelicals who nominally (read: bullshit) stand against Trump's values and behavior. Your version sounds a lot like the CNN version, sorry to say.

Tim Stone

Ah yes my eyes are deceived about the sudden absence of light, captured by multiple independent sources

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone kelly is really trying to get fired

Tim Stone

Just some freaking galaxy brain shit though to claim that the lights did not, in fact, go out

puzzlepiece87

@Nzall Lol okay going to have to fully disagree with this too. Polling routinely showed Sanders would have done even worse in the general.

GodEmperorDune

2:49 PM

@TimStone maybe he was still mad about the breakfast options

Tim Stone

Florida county GOP promoted conspiracy theory on Twitter http://hill.cm/YujYDSE

Tweeted by thehill on July 18, 2018 at 2:49 PM

puzzlepiece87

@Nzall These are popular narratives but I don't think the facts support either.

Tim Stone

Fantastic, happy we're now mainstreaming QAnon

Nzall

@puzzlepiece87 You misunderstand my point about climate change. The Trump voters don't see climate change as a problem, but rather the response of the world to climate change, where people would use far less fossil fuels, which gives a lot of the Trump voters their job

puzzlepiece87

@Wipqozn Exactly, @Nzall didn't refute your point, they reinforced it, in my view.

@Nzall Ah, thank you, you are exactly right. Thanks for clarifying.

Nzall

2:52 PM

@puzzlepiece87 I wasn't really trying to refute it. I wanted to bring more nuance. It's not just Trump or the american people, but rather the environment that caused those people to look for an answer in Trump

@puzzlepiece87 You must have seen different polls than I have

puzzlepiece87

@Wipqozn You should hold them responsible. This is the most likely predictor of future action. Good.

Nzall

@puzzlepiece87 politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/29/bernie-s/…

Although that doesn't take into account the socialist factor

Yuuki

I mean, the same article shows that Clinton would do better in the general than Trump, which was technically true but ended up not mattering.

Nzall

I mean, polls are generally a poor indication regardless of who is running

Yuuki

@Nzall That's pretty classist. Polls can be rich indicators too.

GodEmperorDune

2:59 PM

@Nzall i feel you are missing the racism element

Nzall

@GodEmperorDune I didn't, really. mentioned the people from abroad

GodEmperorDune

@Nzall racist voters are plenty mad at black and brown people who have been citizens for decades

puzzlepiece87

@Nzall I just finished researching on a bunch of sites - you are right about this too. Thanks for your link. I was also on RCP, 538 (couldn't find the article I remembered even with Google-Fu), and others looking for polling data. You are right.

Nzall

@puzzlepiece87 The main thing is though that Sanders is a socialist, and many older people who grew up during the cold war would probably consider Socialism to be a no-no

puzzlepiece87

@Nzall I disagree - I just think people have trouble even with basic statistical numbers like margin of error. There's not a lot to misunderstand about +/- 4%, Clinton 66% likely to win, but we do it somehow anyway.

Nzall

3:02 PM

Especially considering the Nazis called themselves socialists as well

GodEmperorDune

sanders was also awful in the african american community

puzzlepiece87

@Nzall Exactly, that's what the article in my memory said - it was basically showing American approval ratings for socialism and saying there was just no way.

But I couldn't find it.

@Nzall Thanks again for your clarifications and links - you were definitely right and I appreciate your contributions.

Tim Stone

In new court filing, feds say they believe Maria Butina has been in contact with Russian intel officers, and "offered an individual other than (her boyfriend) sex in exchange for a position within a special interest organization."

Tweeted by DevlinBarrett on July 18, 2018 at 3:04 PM

puzzlepiece87

@Wipqozn @Yuuki @TimStone @Unionhawk I usually judge terrible candidacy by approval ratings - by that measure she was unequivocally terrible, though obviously hardworking. Whether she'd be terrible in a hypothetical future where people don't hate women is unknown.

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone like since the story broke or just in general?

Tim Stone

3:08 PM

I guess it's new, she's due to appear in court today where they'll ask for her to be detained due to the flight risk

puzzlepiece87

@Yuuki To be fair it seems at least as valid as saying "Doug Jones won because Moore was a terrible candidate"

Tim Stone

@puzzlepiece87 People just particularly don't like her for reasons they can't seem to fully formulate and I definitely don't think that's all her fault but it's certainly something she needed to consciously contend with

puzzlepiece87

Missing tons of detail but a reasonable attempt at the best single-sentence explanation you can get.

@TimStone Yup.

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone she's a powerful woman that has been on the receiving end of a lot of right wing disinformation campaigns for decades

also people didn't want to have a beer with her

user15026

@GodEmperorDune I understand this reference

GodEmperorDune

3:17 PM

@Ash (it was a longstanding political thing that LMM borrowed, but it still counts :D)

Yuuki

On the one hand, I think "want to have a beer with this person" is a dumb metric for presidency. On the other hand, I would love to have a beer with Obama.

GodEmperorDune

@Yuuki sure is a dumb metric, too bad that's how we've been voting for an extremely long time

Ronan

I'm pretty sure after any number of years in office you'd become a very boring person to have a beer with

GodEmperorDune

@Ronan i dunno, anthony bourdain had a beer with obama and it seemed pretty great

trump on the other hand doesn't even drink beer

user15026

@GodEmperorDune I know, but still, I'm counting it, i could use the smile

GodEmperorDune

3:21 PM

@Ash if you had to choose, if you had to choose

puzzlepiece87

> "We're concerned that our investment has grown to be as valuable as it can possibly get"

I mean, I get it, but God. End-stage capitalism is weird.

GodEmperorDune

hey, ezra klein has an explainer on this very subject (voters not caring about policy positions)

This research challenges a lot of the fundamental assumptions of American politics, and the more you believe it, the stranger most punditry comes to sound: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/18/17501310/abolish-ice-single-payer-swing-voters-political-science-ideology

Tweeted by ezraklein on July 18, 2018 at 2:40 PM

puzzlepiece87

@TimStone do you comment on ArsTechnica?

> There’s a reason even the most left-wing Democrats don’t tend to emphasize the need to integrate public schools through busing anymore. That’s something that white voters will wake up to stop.

Fucking racism, schools less integrated than at any time since Brown v Board of Education.

@GodEmperorDune This was fantastic, thank you. Depressing, but I want to be factually informed.

GodEmperorDune

3:44 PM

correction, ezra klein wasn't the author, it was dylan matthews

Unionhawk

@Nzall no he isn't

Nzall

@Unionhawk His policies are pretty socialist

Especially for a country like the USA

Unionhawk

Socialism is an entire mode of production not just a series of social democratic reforms

Yuuki

And this is why elections are lost.

Unionhawk

Social democracy is good but not socialism, words mean things

Yuuki

3:50 PM

Because "well, it's not actually socialism" which is true but also people are still going to see Sanders as a socialist.

Unionhawk

Hell if more of the elected democratic party than just two people were for social democracy we'd be in better shape

Because at least a competent social democracy makes an effort to shore up the worst parts of capital

It's a concrete and easy to understand message

Tim Stone

@puzzlepiece87 I do not

Oh boy

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone how did you get signed up for this stuff?

Tim Stone

lol this is fantastic

@GodEmperorDune I was apparently on the WH mailing list prior to Trump taking office

So basically it's a job training program because all those jobs they apparently created aren't suitable for the people unemployed

GodEmperorDune

make america great again by recycling old ideas that you cut funding for

This simple innovation game came out of the #ElonMusk submarine idiocy and it is quite brilliant.

Tweeted by Acuity_Design on July 16, 2018 at 4:47 PM

Unionhawk

3:59 PM

@Yuuki they called obama a socialist what's your point

Yuuki

The Republican party calls everyone else socialist. Not the point at all. The point is whether other people call him a socialist. And there were definitely a non-zero amount of not-Republicans calling Sanders a socialist.

Ronan

@GodEmperorDune I've yet to play it, but I've played a very similar game that's loads of fun

Unionhawk

There are nonzero DSA members who call snow plows socialist, lot of incorrect people out there

puzzlepiece87

@Yuuki I'm with you on this one.

@Unionhawk Words only mean things if a crowd actually uses them that way

"How DSA and academics use the word socialism" means very little

Yuuki

It's almost as if you're being purposely obtuse about my point that it doesn't matter whether something correctly fits the proper definition.

It's about whether the population knows and can recognize the proper definition.

puzzlepiece87

4:06 PM

@Yuuki Exactly.

Yuuki

And right now, people don't know what socialism is.

Unionhawk

Socialism is when the government does stuff is the new definition then

Yuuki

It's just some nebulous other.

Unionhawk

Fuck it nothing matters why try to educate people under a framework of words having meanings

Yuuki

You'd have to try first before you give up on trying.

Unionhawk

4:08 PM

It's almost like using words properly is the first step to trying

Yuuki

No, teaching people what words are is the first step to trying.

puzzlepiece87

I definitely think @Unionhawk tries - but I also think that sometimes points are made that are stubbornly about idealism when reality is being discussed.

Yuuki

Which is an incredibly depressing statement to make, but wew 2018.

Unionhawk

You have to use them correctly to teach them correctly?

puzzlepiece87

"Crows Sometimes Have Sex With Their Dead" - from The Atlantic, would instantly reach Stack HNQ if a question

Unionhawk

4:11 PM

Socialism is a system for ordering the whole economy wherein the workers, rather than a separate owner class, is in control of the means of production, and is entitled to everything their labor is worth

Yuuki

So we get everyone to use words properly. And then we teach them how to use them properly?

Kinda feels redundant if it happens in that order.

Unionhawk

Social Democracy is a series of reforms designed to reign in the excesses of capital; single payer healthcare, free college tuition, childcare, etc. Universal programs to meet people's needs

These reforms can help build working class power, but are themselves, not socialism

user15026

Here's the problem - if people don't know what you mean because a bunch of other people have co-opted your words to mean a thing you don't mean...you have to find a way to make it clear to people.

user15026

It sucks that you have to do that work, but it is what it is.

user15026

So just going "x is not socialism" is great, but obviously there's a disconnect for a bunch of people re: what socialism actually is as you purport it to be, and the socially assumed definition

Unionhawk

4:15 PM

I know that. That's why I'm not just stopping at "well people use words wrong so it doesn't matter what you think things mean"

puzzlepiece87

@Unionhawk And to be fair, you didn't claim anything like people wouldn't perceive Sanders as a socialist, though you did interject into a conversation broadly focused along those lines.

Not that interjections are bad, I just think that the dissonance led to the past 50 comments.

(minus crow sex, that was all on me)

Unionhawk

4:28 PM

Honestly it's related; we can't have a productive discussion with cold warriors on the basis of two different ideas of who we are

Tim Stone

Sen. Thune when asked about Trump’s walk-back on Russia: “Ahh, well, I mean I guess it’s probably the best we’re going to be able to get.”

Tweeted by alexanderbolton on July 18, 2018 at 4:29 PM

SaintWacko

@TimStone Damn lol

Tim Stone

Uhhh...that’s a sitting U.S. Congressman (Paul Gosar) speaking at a “Free Tommy Robinson” rally in the UK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsVAh2zPK4Y

Tweeted by imraansiddiqi on July 17, 2018 at 3:44 PM

🤷

(to sum it up)

SaintWacko

@TimStone Now that I know who Tommy Robinson is... Fuuuuuuuck

Tim Stone

Oh my god. Paul Erickson was an executive producer on Red Scorpion. A gory 80s Dolph Lindgren Rambo knockoff written by Jack Abramoff (yes, THAT Jack Abramoff.) Secretly financed by Apartheid South Africa as an anti-socialist propaganda flick. https://rapidcityjournal.com/news/local/trump-putin-and-erickson-russia-probe-just-another-chapter-in/article_e9ed9038-3411-5112-86fa-f64bb0fa6549.html

Tweeted by Zeddary on July 18, 2018 at 4:42 PM in reply to Zeddary

lol wtf Gaetz is now saying he made a mistake going on InfoWars and that members of Congress shouldn't peddle that nonsense which is 100% correct and thus also not the dumbest thing one could say so I am very confused

RE: Ivanka's jobs plan

"Wow. If that was Ivanka Smith the press would say she's incredibly brilliant," says @POTUS about @IvankaTrump presentation during Cabinet meeting.

Tweeted by W7VOA on July 18, 2018 at 4:46 PM in reply to W7VOA

SaintWacko

4:48 PM

..what?

Tim Stone

The media is going to say her presentation is bad and that he can't sleep with her because she's a Trump

Is the intent

Mark Zuckerberg is so broad-minded he can’t rule Holocaust denial out of bounds. https://www.recode.net/2018/7/18/17584488/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-infowars-censorship-conspiracy-theory-news-feed

Tweeted by nycsouthpaw on July 18, 2018 at 4:48 PM

Yeah but Mark buddy they don't think they're wrong

NEW: During WH Cabinet meeting pooler @CeciliaVega asks POTUS "Is Russia still targeting the US?" to which the President answers "No".

Tweeted by ryanobles on July 18, 2018 at 4:27 PM

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone yeah this is how "assume good faith" doesn't work when people act in bad faith

@TimStone ok that movie was bad but also good

Tim Stone

@TimStone This level of stupidity seems untenable, I guess the only question is how destructive the inevitable collapse will be

SaintWacko

@TimStone I hate how he just constantly changes his story whenever he's proven to be wrong/lying and no one seems to care

Tim Stone

"Montenegro says a group of Serb and Russian nationalists had a plan to attack state institutions on the day of an election last year and kill then-Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic," https://www.reuters.com/article/us-montenegro-election-trial/montenegro-begins-trial-of-alleged-pro-russian-coup-plotters-idUSKBN1A413F

Tweeted by badler on July 18, 2018 at 2:21 PM

Yuuki

4:58 PM

@TimStone Look, I talked to the Dark Lord Sauron and he says that he never wanted the Ring in the first place.

Tim Stone

Oh how weird Tucker and Trump had a nice chat about "lol protecting Montenegro" after Trump's private meeting with Putin

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone yeah, given trump's grasp of other countries, not sure how he stumbled upon this one

SaintWacko

@Yuuki Oh, well in that case why don't we set up a joint committee wit Sauron on how best to protect the ring!

Tim Stone

@TimStone Oh boy

Attorneys for Andrew Miller — a Roger Stone aide who had sought to squash a subpoena for Mueller’s probe — just emerged from an 1.5 hour sealed matter in Chief Judge Howell’s courtroom. 5 members of Mueller’s team were in the courtroom as well.

Tweeted by Tierney_Megan on July 18, 2018 at 3:01 PM

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone hue that was a good laugh yesterday

NEWS: Kavanaugh bluntly said he wanted to overturn SCOTUS ruling upholding constitutionality of independent counsel. There’s difference bw independent counsel and special counsel (like Mueller) - but it’s bound to spark questions about how he views Mueller https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/18/politics/brett-kavanaugh-independent-counsel-comments/index.html

Tweeted by mkraju on July 18, 2018 at 2:10 PM

Tim Stone

5:04 PM

Graham says if US does nothing to prevent cyber attacks on election systems, it is "a 9/11 type mistake on steroids."

Tweeted by ChadPergram on July 18, 2018 at 5:02 PM

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone does he know what the white house is doing in this area?

Tim Stone

Oh he does, he does

Tim Stone

5:16 PM

Exclusive: A @BuzzFeedNews and @OCCRP investigation reveals American Conservatives worked with the founder of the first so-called fake news site in Macedonia. One of these Americans is now running for office. Story and thread: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/american-conservatives-fake-news-macedonia-paris-wade-libert

Tweeted by CraigSilverman on July 18, 2018 at 4:25 PM

Oh, was that bad? That seems bad!

GodEmperorDune

jeez

Tim Stone

🤔

Tweeted by kenklippenstein on July 18, 2018 at 5:17 PM

Oh Elon

> Dems look for candidate who will punch Trump "square in the face"

Okay counterpoint I think that Biden would actually do that but don't pick him

Unionhawk

, but unironically

this is also true

hmm

More than just that we have to move past that point

too

is what separates Joe Biden from

uh

Tim Stone

Like we literally had a news cycle where we discussed them fist fighting I think

Unionhawk

listen I'll be unhappy with literally any possible nominee

so

Tim Stone

5:20 PM

I appreciate your consistency but also yes

Unionhawk

it's merely degrees of unhappiness

will it be "they voted for SESTA/FOSTA and have bad israel politics but I guess", or will it be "they're some big wig party guy who probably won't do anything positive at all but I guess"

GodEmperorDune

A baby died of whooping cough in California for the first time in two years. Doctors say pregnant women should get vaccinated to protect newborns, but only half of moms get the shot. My latest story: http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-whooping-cough-death-20180717-story.html

Tweeted by skarlamangla on July 18, 2018 at 5:18 PM

dammit anti vaxxers

Tim Stone

@GodEmperorDune lol don't worry he's got you

A BIG discrepancy between President Trump’s statement and DNI Coates’ warning. It’s imperative we get to the bottom of what is going on so we can be prepared to protect ourselves in advance of the 2018 elections. My personal view: the Russians are at again.

Tweeted by LindseyGrahamSC on July 18, 2018 at 5:03 PM

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Unionhawk

google, if I mute "russia" and "the russians" on twitter, does that mute it from everywhere else

Tim Stone

5:27 PM

Re: New Butina filing + Russian oligarchy. There are only a few names on Forbes 2018 list that match the 1.2 B real time net worth. One of them is Mikhail Shelkov (VSMPO-AVISMA )-- U.S. is the main export market for Russian titanium miner the company

Tweeted by ErinBanco on July 18, 2018 at 5:24 PM

@Unionhawk No

@TimStone I'm glad we're going to be able to inexplicably introduce a parallel precious metals angle into things. Not quite uranium but I'll allow it

Putin says he misspoke too, withdrawing claim Clinton got millions stolen from Russia https://interc.pt/2mqGKgT

Tweeted by RobertMackey on July 18, 2018 at 5:30 PM

Unionhawk

lmfao CALL THE COPS IF YOU SEE A DOG (correction: don't actually)

woo mta

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone wow

@Unionhawk dammit cops

Tim Stone

> Austrian State May Require Jews to Register to Buy Kosher Meat

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm how about we don't do that

Unionhawk

@GodEmperorDune hot take dog in bag laws are bad

Tim Stone

Meanwhile, hackers are actively sitting inside T-Mobile's networks; one of them sent Lorenzo his own personal information when asked

Tweeted by jason_koebler on July 17, 2018 at 6:25 PM in reply to jason_koebler

Ah, great, cool

GodEmperorDune

5:39 PM

@TimStone damn

ah the root cause is shitty 2FA

because text messags are not a good 2FA

user15026

@TimStone This strikes me as a bad plan, for the obvious reasons

user15026

(Oh, if i am reading this right, the guy proposing this is from a party started by a Nazi who claim they don't have anti-Semitic views but apparently they do, suddenly it all makes sense)

Tim Stone

Yeeeeeeep

GodEmperorDune

@Ash ugh wtf

Mad Scientist

@Ash the original issue behind this are laws about animal cruelty, and the question whether the specific way of killing animals required by some religions is humane, and if not, whether religious freedom is a sufficient reason to still allow it. But still, assuming bad intent here is certainly justified, especially as Muslims should be affected by this as well (and this particular way of "solving" the issue is certainly especially stupid).

user15026

5:46 PM

@MadScientist Yeah, I understand why they're approaching it this way, but their approach...could use work

GodEmperorDune

6:10 PM

Michael Scheuer, the former senior CIA official and NYT bestselling author of Imperial Hubris, is calling for Trump supporters to kill Trump opponents http://non-intervention.com/3238/a-republican-citizenrys-greatest-last-resort-duty-is-to-kill-those-seeking-to-impose-tyranny/

Tweeted by BFriedmanDC on July 16, 2018 at 1:40 PM

what the fuck

ah, apparently it is an old habit for this dude

@BFriedmanDC He’s also called for assassinations before https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-scheuers-meltdown

Tweeted by maddezmom on July 16, 2018 at 1:44 PM in reply to BFriedmanDC

Yuuki

@GodEmperorDune Wait, so do we kill Scheuer for attempting to stage an assassination of a legitimately elected president?

🤔

GodEmperorDune

@Yuuki nah, capital punishment is no bueno

Yuuki

I agree, but he's calling for people to kill "those involved in the multiple and clearly delineated attempts to stage a coup d'etat against the legitimately elected... government".

Tim Stone

7:03 PM

So that was @Jordanfabian who threw his question back to @HallieJackson as she tried to ask a follow up but Sanders was trying to move on.

Tweeted by Hadas_Gold on July 18, 2018 at 6:59 PM

They decided to have Sarah Sanders do a press conference and it's going even less in her favour than usual

WH press sec Sanders acknowledged that Putin talked to Trump about his interest in prosecuting financier Bill Browder and former US ambassador Michael McFaul. she declined to rule out US cooperation in that effort, saying Trump would consult his national security team

Tweeted by JohnJHarwood on July 18, 2018 at 6:53 PM

9th Circuit rules against Trump Admin on trans military ban — the DOJ had asked court to suspend one of the orders currently blocking ban, but court delcined. Here’s court order (via the lawyers at @LambdaLegal): https://www.lambdalegal.org/sites/default/files/legal-docs/downloads/karnoski_wa_20180718_stay-decision.pdf

Tweeted by dominicholden on July 18, 2018 at 7:03 PM

MBraedley

@TimStone and do the exact opposite of what they recommend.

Tim Stone

Yeah, it's not even something he should have to consult with them about because it's absurd on its face

Tim Stone

7:22 PM

NEW: Alleged Russian agent Maria Butina pleaded not guilty to the charges today, and a federal magistrate judge ordered her held without bond pending trial, finding there were no release conditions that would ensure her return to court. More soon. Earlier: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/prosecutors-say-accused-maria-butina-had-ties-to-russian

Tweeted by ZoeTillman on July 18, 2018 at 7:22 PM

Wipqozn

"Defiant Trump says Russia not targeting U.S., calls critics deranged" - reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-summit-trump/…

> President Donald Trump contradicted U.S. intelligence agencies again on Wednesday, saying that Russia was not still targeting the United States, and accused his critics of being deranged.

Yuuki

no collusion no collusion, you're the collusion

GodEmperorDune

@Yuuki i'm too rich to be corrupt

Yuuki

@GodEmperorDune I guess the joke is that Trump really thinks that rich people can't be corrupt except that Trump isn't really rich.

puzzlepiece87

@Unionhawk That's nothing, when I was at Penn State we got a campus-wide text alert to report black males

Tim Stone

8:07 PM

@Yuuki Technically he's saying no colusion, which is not a word, so

Tim Stone

8:25 PM

NEW: Here’s the sense of the Senate resolution introduced by @JeffFlake & @ChrisCoons that reaffirms the intel communities assessment on Russian meddling in the election, and calls on Senate committees to hold hearings and request “relevant notes” from Helsinki summit —>

Tweeted by frankthorp on July 18, 2018 at 8:10 PM

Glad to see one of my senators working with Flake to collectively shrug at the President throwing the country under the bus

At least it says the committees should do something, but they likely won't 🤔

puzzlepiece87

Mostly good news: 18 year old walks 20 miles to work overnight after car breaks down, receives free car in response

Tim Stone

NEW from me: Since 2012, abusers have systemically used Spotify to stalk and intimidate their victims, and people have asked the company for years for a block feature. Spotify still won’t roll one out, though—and it told us it has no plans to. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/daveyalba/spotify-still-wont-enable-a-feature-that-would-let-its

Tweeted by daveyalba on July 18, 2018 at 8:22 PM

BREAKING: The California Supreme Court just blocked Proposition 9, the initiative to divide California into three states, from the November 2018 ballot. Here's my latest story on the proposal: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/skbaer/three-californias-initiative-consequences

Tweeted by skbaer on July 18, 2018 at 8:05 PM

lol, rekt

Yuuki

> I am in total awe of this young man!

Absolute unit.

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone well solidified, really

user15026

@puzzlepiece87 That's a lot of walking

GodEmperorDune

8:36 PM

@puzzlepiece87 another failure of capitalism

puzzlepiece87

@Ash @GodEmperorDune Yes and yes. But I'll take the good news I can get.

user15026

nods I hear you on that

GodEmperorDune

sure

Tim Stone

I'm sorry to inform you etc etc

NEW: A sitting GOP congressman on the radio repeatedly lamented not being able to call women "sluts" and said women "are guided by more emotion than reason." Among other deeply misogynistic comments. https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/18/politics/kfile-jason-lewis/index.html

Tweeted by KFILE on July 18, 2018 at 8:35 PM

user15026

They're all monsters

GodEmperorDune

8:39 PM

@TimStone why don't they ever name the congressman doing the fuct thing?

jason lewis, into the sea with you

Tim Stone

It's mentioned in the follow up tweet I dunno why not in the headline/that one

@Ash and they all had radio shows for some reason 🤔

GodEmperorDune

i did see a thing about a code of ethics for programmers from ACM, maybe long term that helps fix some of the tech toxicity

user15026

I will take it

Unionhawk

@GodEmperorDune unfortunately there are entire tech companies set up to do evil which doesn't help

GodEmperorDune

"The entire computing profession benefits when the ethical decision-making process is accountable to and transparent to all stakeholders... all people are stakeholders in computing." https://twitter.com/TheOfficialACM/status/1019222765805727744

Tweeted by lizthegrey on July 18, 2018 at 12:24 AM

she goes into some of the highlights in that thread

(i have no idea how we're mutuals)

@Unionhawk cultural change is a long, hard slog

Unionhawk

8:44 PM

It's just hard for me to see a path forward now

All the Microsoft and Google organizing in the world isn't going to shut down Government Acquisitions, Inc, a company headquartered in Cincinnati with ICE contracts, or the HP subsidiary that literally only does work for the international prison industry

GodEmperorDune

@Unionhawk i see it as a similar effort to how DSA is trying to rebrand socialism

@Unionhawk if the rest of the industry changes around them and they don't, they'll end up having a hard time recruiting

or you end up putting pressure on govt oversight agencies to not do business with companies that don't follow the ethics rules and such

Tim Stone

Trump military parade will cost about as much as US-South Korea military drills that Trump canceled due to cost http://hill.cm/kllw7FO

Tweeted by thehill on July 18, 2018 at 8:43 PM

Oh right I forgot about this shit already

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone almost as if it wasn't a cost thing

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