This Is Fine

12:09 AM

@Unionhawk I agree that there are bad cops, and that they are killing people, and that they are unduly protected by the system. It is also the case that you are making unreasonably universal statements about a large population of people.

ToxicFrog

12:22 AM

@murgatroid99 personally I read that statement as having an implicit "when witnessing police misconduct" suffix; that said, I don't think it unreasonable to hold the position that "good cops" should be speaking out against bad cops even when they are not part of the same department, and visibly walking the walk as well

Unionhawk

12:35 AM

@murgatroid99 no, I am making universal statements about people who take a particular sort of job, and the very nature of that job. You can't just reduce it to "a large population of people"

murgatroid99

12:49 AM

@ToxicFrog Given the stuff about people being killed for speaking, I thought this was about whistleblowers, not just people generally talking about problems with the system at large

@Unionhawk So, are you saying that every single one of the hundreds of thousands of police officers in the country is either "bad" or directly observes bad behavior and should be speaking out about it?

Unionhawk

All Cops Are Based in a system were their job is inherently about enforcing oppressive laws, so when we say all cops are bad it is less a comment on their moral self and actually talking about their role in this system, which is very fascist and oppressive by nature

Tweeted by queer_queenie on January 28, 2018 at 2:40 PM

And with that, I'm exhausted. If you want to go for some last word stuff, by all means.

murgatroid99

"I disagree with some laws so law enforcement is inherently evil"

Memor-X

@Unionhawk can't stop seeing this as someone who thinks enforcing laws against murder and rape = being oppressed

murgatroid99

If you say that law enforcement officers are bad because the system is oppressive, then the implication is that people have a moral duty to not be law enforcement officers in the current system.

If everyone were to follow that implied moral imperative, the result would be that you have no law enforcement officers, which means that you have no law enforcement

Even if some existing laws are oppressive, the alternative is still much worse

Memor-X

@murgatroid99 which would be a great system if people weren't c's

murgatroid99

1:03 AM

If nobody was bad, we wouldn't need laws or law enforcement. That doesn't imply anything about the real world with real people

Yuuki

I don’t know that we wouldn’t need laws if nobody was bad.

murgatroid99

@Yuuki How about "if everybody was perfect"

Yuuki

For some nebulous value of bad.

If everyone was perfect, we’d have a serious shortage in copies of Bad Rats and I don’t think anyone wants to live in that kind of world.

murgatroid99

Also, for some nebulous value of "perfect"

The point is that laws are valuable to society because they decrease the incidence of murder and rape and theft and drunk driving and lots of other stuff that hurts people

Yuuki

I agree that no law enforcement is a ludicrous proposition, but @Uni does have a point in that law enforcement by its very nature is a force counter to progress (for some nebulous value of “progress”) and is inherently oppressive by their very purpose (ignoring the various connotations of “oppressive”).

murgatroid99

1:16 AM

Still, it doesn't make sense to say both that having law enforcement is better than not having law enforcement, and that being a law enforcement officer is inherently worse than not being a law enforcement officer

And a lot of progress is made by changing laws, which in principle is independent of law enforcement

Yuuki

@murgatroid99 I would argue that valuing the threat of punishment over all other forms of deterrence is problematic. Which I know is not what you said, but it feels like that’s the general undercurrent of the nation.

murgatroid99

@Yuuki At the bare minimum, you need to physically separate violent people from the rest of the population. And you need people to do that

You need to have someone who has the authority and capability to move a strong violent person from their current location to somewhere that they can't hurt people

Yuuki

1:33 AM

The problem we’re currently facing is that also need someone to make sure those people aren’t moving nonviolent or innocent people. And our current system doesn’t do that very well.

If you need to account for people not being perfect/good, then you need to account for law enforcement not being perfect/good.

murgatroid99

I agree that the system that police currently operate in does not properly/effectively oversee them. That is a problem, and it should be fixed.

But that's also a completely separate issue from the claim that all cops are bad because some laws they enforce are bad

Yuuki

The thing is, it’s been a problem for so long that it’s easy to see why some people have this sort of reaction to law enforcement.

When a population is more afraid of its police than its criminals, and violent crime has been trending downwards very consistently, you can see why some people might prefer no law enforcement.

murgatroid99

That's exactly the argument for getting rid of vaccines

"Our preventative measures are working, therefore we don't need them"

Yuuki

You can’t reform viruses though. Or educate RNA bundles to not become viruses.

murgatroid99

You can't preemptively reform all future criminals either

Some people just suck

Tim Stone

3:57 AM

What if Jeff Bezos bought Twitter with the change in his pocket and shut Trump's account?

Tweeted by PreetBharara on April 3, 2018 at 3:48 AM

One of many such jokes but also let's not encourage Bezos to do that because he literally could

GodEmperorDune

i expected better from preetbharara

the mercers could also do this thing and people would flip their shit

Tim Stone

Granted it is super dumb that the President thinks Jeff Bezos is pulling puppet strings to get WaPo to say mean things about him, but yeah, the Mercers, so

Colorado’s Republican-led Senate votes against expelling a GOP senator accused of groping a former legislative aide. http://apne.ws/Y5HOtML

Tweeted by APWestRegion on April 3, 2018 at 3:54 AM

That mustache, my god

Also in light of their statement about the D-turned-R kicked out for the same thing like…c'mon. That wasn't even that long ago

GodEmperorDune

4:27 AM

@TimStone wut

> He was the second Colorado legislator to face expulsion this session over sexual misconduct claims. On March 2, Colorado state Rep. Steve Lebsock was expelled following complaints he harassed or intimidated five women, including a fellow lawmaker.

GodEmperorDune

4:42 AM

i also love how much due process an accused harasser gets before losing their job vs someone getting an asylum claim denied and getting deported back to a country where they are killed

Memor-X

5:23 AM

@GodEmperorDune because one is a US Citizen and the other isn't?

GodEmperorDune

I spent a long time reporting this story, and I think it's really important. The Trump administration is sabotaging the census. The fear and confusion overtaking Providence County right now, will be seen nationwide in 2020. https://theintercept.com/2018/03/31/census-2020-citizenship-question-providence-immigrants/

Tweeted by SamAdlerBell on March 31, 2018 at 1:31 PM

Kevin van der Velden

9:05 AM

Vatican paraphrased: We need more people trained to officially physically and mentally abuse people (i.e. perform "exorcisms")

GodEmperorDune

9:40 AM

BREAKING: Trump proposes to end funding for ACA insurance exchanges.

Tweeted by ASlavitt on April 2, 2018 at 9:41 PM

Arperum

10:58 AM

@GodEmperorDune So he tries to murder Obamacare again?

Mad Scientist

11:25 AM

Trump's tweets are getting more frantic, if somewhat repetitive. He's been tweeting the entire weekend

The big Caravan of People from Honduras, now coming across Mexico and heading to our “Weak Laws” Border, had better be stopped before it gets there. Cash cow NAFTA is in play, as is foreign aid to Honduras and the countries that allow this to happen. Congress MUST ACT NOW!

Tweeted by realDonaldTrump on April 3, 2018 at 10:49 AM

Memor-X

@MadScientist he was practicing his bragging over military spending ready for when the children came over to play at his house

Mad Scientist

It's quite terrifying that the US is currently governed by the Fox News morning show

Scott Pruitt Bypassed the White House to Give Big Raises to Favorite Aides

This might be one scandal too many for Pruitt, he's generating enough negative headlines to get on Trump's radar

Memor-X

@MadScientist Rupert Murdock's grand plan

Rupert Murdoch, Billionaire Tyrant

►

why do you think Trump doesn't like the sports players being insubordinate? because Rupert don't like them being insubordinate

@MadScientist quite sure he'll stay so long as he keep his head down and say "yes sir" alot

Unionhawk

12:24 PM

KEA has told their members not to perform any action until the end of legislature recess, April 13

we'll see what happens but

it's really great that their real goal is yelling at politicians about how they're going to vote them out in november, and that they think the legislature being present makes a difference in these things

> There are currently no active closings or delays.

>:(

SaintWacko

1:36 PM

@Unionhawk But what has IKEA done?

Tim Stone

2:27 PM

@MadScientist I hope so, he's one of the people who shouldn't have been confirmed even when being as charitable as possible, given his shady past dealings

what idiot called it remote code execution and not 'seizing the means to production'

Tweeted by sadoperator on April 3, 2018 at 2:17 PM

/cc @Unionhawk

Hello from the federal courthouse in DC, where the trees are sort of in bloom and Alex van der Zwaan (the lawyer who pleaded guilty to lying to the special counsel's office) is due to be sentenced this morning. Previously: https://www.buzzfeed.com/zoetillman/robert-mueller-van-der-zwaan?utm_term=.qiQDgB4ra#.yrAWbX4Ln

Tweeted by ZoeTillman on April 3, 2018 at 12:55 PM

A BBC Host Said Chicken Rendang Should Have Crispy Skin And Now The Malaysian Prime Minister Is Involved https://www.buzzfeed.com/meghara/masterchef-chicken-rendang-bbc?utm_term=.smozva03Pg

Tweeted by HayesBrown on April 3, 2018 at 2:34 PM

Wow, Pruitt rambles faster than I do

He just thanked the auto industry for environmental progress

And asserted that we have a fleet of car options that no one wants to buy because they're...too eco-friendly? Or something?

He then invited the head of the auto lobbyist group to speak from the EPA podium? I guess this must be normal, and I just haven't paid enough attention before

puzzlepiece87

2:50 PM

@murgatroid99 Agreed with this point - even as someone who thinks that police corruption and violence is pretty endemic in America, this was the logical follow on.

Yuuki

@TimStone :/

Tim Stone

3:05 PM

I am right about Amazon costing the United States Post Office massive amounts of money for being their Delivery Boy. Amazon should pay these costs (plus) and not have them bourne by the American Taxpayer. Many billions of dollars. P.O. leaders don’t have a clue (or do they?)!

Tweeted by realDonaldTrump on April 3, 2018 at 1:55 PM

lol "bourne"

puzzlepiece87

@TimStone What time zone are you in?

@TimStone Even from DC this looks like this tweet is from the future.

Tim Stone

Eastern

Chat's twitter timestamps are in UTC, the tweet itself was at 9:55 am

GodEmperorDune

3:27 PM

@TimStone best part of this is amazon could say “ok” because they are literally doing that already

Tim Stone

Like it's literally in the contract that's reviewed by the postal board

USPS must make a profit from the deal

"BUT I'M RIGHT BECAUSE I'M THE BIG BOY PRESIDENT HURR HURR" 🙄

Today, President Trump will welcome the Baltic States Heads of Government to the White House. Watch the joint press conference at 1:35pm EDT: http://45.wh.gov/RtVRmD

Tweeted by WhiteHouse on April 3, 2018 at 2:06 PM

That's awkward

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone dunking on the BBC for fooding wrong is a genre I love but didn’t know existed

Tim Stone

"You'll make sure Russia doesn't try to annex us, right?"
"Oh yeah, bigly promise"

Unionhawk

Extremely woke of the president to support the public sector nationalized delivery service over ups and FedEx send tweet

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone inb4 Flynn kidnaps they and sends them to putin

(Not poutine, autocorrect)

Tim Stone

3:36 PM

lmao

You can send me to poutine it's okay

Unionhawk

@GodEmperorDune's autocorrect is actually Steven Seagal

Unionhawk

4:32 PM

arg

the KY120 UNITED secret group has disabled posting

:/

why to shut down calls to more immediate action though

Yuuki

@TimStone Also, the Post Office runs a deficit because the Republicans made it that way.

It used to be the most profitable (is that right word for government?) agency.

Unionhawk

Jacobin interview with one of the KY120 UNITED organizers

Yuuki

... why would you continue calling yourselves "Jacobins" after the French Revolution...?

Unionhawk

For values of "yourselves" meaning "this magazine", eh

Yuuki

4:49 PM

Well yes, I didn't mean "you" as in "@Unionhawk".

Unionhawk

it's a historical callback to a specific set of radical left revolutionaries, is I assume why

Tim Stone

Trump is asking Baltic heads of state to praise his leadership on NATO in one of those cabinet room roundtables that are filmed by news cameras.

Tweeted by DavidNakamura on April 3, 2018 at 4:52 PM

Unionhawk

as promised, the best damn public comment in recent memory. comrade brought the RECEIPTS on stop & frisk. you're more likely to be struck by lightning SIX TIMES IN THE NEXT YEAR than it would be for our police department to be this racist by accident. https://vimeo.com/262992117

Tweeted by socialistdogmom on April 3, 2018 at 3:32 PM

nice

math :sunglasses:

Tim Stone

Is Putin friend or a foe, @POTUS is asked by a reporter. "You're going to find out very quickly," he replies.

Tweeted by W7VOA on April 3, 2018 at 4:54 PM in reply to W7VOA

???

GodEmperorDune

wut

Tim Stone

4:56 PM

He then immediately pivoted to talking about Amazon again

In this meeting. With the heads of the Baltic states

...And now he's pivoted to "Crooked Hillary Clinton"

throws hands up

Yuuki

Man, I would love to be a world leader right now. Get into meetings with Trump and just relax as he rants for five hours.

Maybe take a nap.

user15026

@TimStone Still? We're still bringing that up?

Unionhawk

@Unionhawk less likely than being attacked by 2 sharks and 3 bears in 1 year is honestly the better/funnier stat here

Tim Stone

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: "Roseanne" is the most anti-Trump show on television http://hill.cm/wDjR9hO

Tweeted by thehill on April 3, 2018 at 4:58 PM

Wat

I just

FFS

This is the dumbest day

Trump comments on Scott Pruitt in pool report: "I hope he's going to be great."

Tweeted by AlexCKaufman on April 3, 2018 at 4:58 PM

WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN

throws a table

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone wut

user15026

5:01 PM

@TimStone I'm not sure who that is or what that refers to

GodEmperorDune

@Ash scott pruitt has a lot of scandals going right now

Tim Stone

He the EPA administrator

user15026

So...very not great then

Tim Stone

No, and I'd have to check what the question was specifically but I am like 100% sure that isn't a valid answer from a "These words can be used, in English, to respond coherently to the question" perspective

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone i mean the answer makes sense for someone who just recently started or was about to start, not someone who has been in office for over a year with all sorts of messes

user15026

5:04 PM

Oh, he's not new?

user15026

(I tend to assume no one has been doing a thing for Trump very long)

GodEmperorDune

@Ash nope, he's initial crew

user15026

I didn't know anyone was still, I assumed he had like Ship of Theseus'ed the whole lot

GodEmperorDune

@Ash many people have been fired but he also brought a lot in initially

Tim Stone

The question was, to be...uhh fair? just "Scott Pruitt, sir?"

And I had to skim through the whole C-SPAN video to find that

And I want to die now

I'm not even trying to be funny, that was mentally painful to process

Unionhawk

5:21 PM

Trust me, being frustrated at KEA facebook stuff is way better than scrolling through C-SPAN of the president

Mad Scientist

5:45 PM

@TimStone grammar really stops to matter once you're inside a completely different reality anyway

puzzlepiece87

@TimStone Since the last day.

Unionhawk

7:15 PM

:o KY students are organizing

GodEmperorDune

8:33 PM

hmm, nothing about the youtube shooter

Re: YouTube situation, we are coordinating with authorities and will provide official information here from Google and YouTube as it becomes available.

Tweeted by Google_Comms on April 3, 2018 at 8:30 PM

Ave

8:59 PM

HAPPENING NOW: Police confirm 'active shooter' situation is unfolding at the YouTube headquarters in San Bruno, California Here's What We Know - https://breaking911.com/breaking-active-shooter-reported-at-youtube-hq-in-silicon-valley/

Tweeted by Breaking911 on April 3, 2018 at 8:23 PM

murgatroid99

That is terrible, and I hope nobody is too badly hurt

GodEmperorDune

same

puzzlepiece87

same

murgatroid99

I'm glad we have an effective and well-staffed law enforcement system/department to effectively respond to this and hopefully prevent any (further) loss of life

Unionhawk

last I saw was 37+ hospitalized per scanners

murgatroid99

9:12 PM

Oh shit. I just saw "4 or 5" from someone here

GodEmperorDune

i'm sure the accurate numbers will come out later

Unionhawk

Yes, tweet has been deleted so it may have been a typo?

GodEmperorDune

breaking news is the ideal environment for fake news and hoaxes

GnomeSlice

Peter Munk died

Unionhawk

@GodEmperorDune ye

GodEmperorDune

9:15 PM

@Unionhawk so please wait for reputable news sources like infowars to tell us how many crisis actors were involved

Unionhawk

Looking just fake than typo ignore me

Dammit discord

GnomeSlice

Apparently he donated close to $300 to charitable causes and institutions over his lifetime

That's amazing

$300 million *

puzzlepiece87

@murgatroid99 BBC: 4 or 5 at time of writing

Unionhawk

nbc is reporting suspect dead at scene

GnomeSlice

@Ave dude @mana works there

user15026

9:21 PM

The one person I know that would have been there is safe, which is reassuring.

user15026

@GnomeSlice He's safe

GnomeSlice

@Ash is it him or should I call him

Ok

user15026

(Just saw on Facebook, he posted and said he's okay)

user15026

(This is the first time that I've seen the "so and so reported as safe" thing in action for people I know usng Facebook. That's...a hella useful thing.)

user15026

BREAKING: YouTube shooter is a female and she is down, multiple law enforcement sources tell @NBCNews - @anblanx http://nbcnews.to/2q2XxZF

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