« first day (1548 days earlier)      last day (32 days later) » 

6:33 AM
@Sarov I mean, that was basically already in the outcome of the experiment they ran on SO :P
morning
 
6:49 AM
@Sarov paper is molecules
 
 
4 hours later…
10:48 AM
There they are... All mine now, finally!
 
Now you can furniturise the apartment? :D
 
@JourneymanGeek I've already started!
But yeah, now the hard work start; all those little diy things XD
Painting, wallpaper
Floors are being done, luckily
 
I'm half certain they'll just plonk down my new apartment, floors and all in place...
 
That's actually super nice! I have to pay an extra almost 5k for the floors :P
 
Its undead grey vinyl
I might get it changed if it isn't too dear
 
11:02 AM
Ah yeah that's.. not a great floor color imo :P
 
I need to do some work on the kitchen, but other than that shouldn't need much ...
 
I'm getting PVC that has a light wood look
@JourneymanGeek worth the wait then ;)
 
lol
It was supppppposed to be 2022
stupid covid...
 
11:18 AM
@JourneymanGeek Yeah fullheartedly agree
 
12:02 PM
congrats tinkeringbell!
 
 
1 hour later…
1:22 PM
Thanks!
 
A J
1:44 PM
You got a new chair! Nice. ;)
 
1:59 PM
Second hand ;) borrowed from my parents
 
@JourneymanGeek Molecules are atoms!
@Tinkeringbell But why?
 
@Sarov they are not
 
They're made of atoms! Therefore they're atoms!
 
You're made of water...
 
Not entirely.
If I were entirely made of water, then yeah, I'd be water.
 
2:03 PM
You're... made of meat then
thus you are meat
 
Not entirely.
 
but is it free range meat :p
 
There's also water and bone and cartilage.
 
@AlexRobinson Are we?
 
that is the question
 
2:07 PM
I mean. I'm currently in a cubicle.
So... No?
 
we are battery farmed :(
 
 
4 hours later…
6:18 PM
For the people that use Gravatar: meta.stackexchange.com/q/370187/369802 spread the word ;)
 
You can't make me!
 
6:31 PM
True.. I can't but I won't doubt the SO devs ability ;)
 
They can't make me either! That'd be illegal.
 
@Sarov I mean, sure they can't make you, but if you don't want it you'd have to find a different place :P
 
6:47 PM
I'm... actually not sure about the legality of that. IANAL, but "You must specifically say this to use our publically-published system" seems like it could run afoul of compelled speech laws.
 
7:03 PM
@Sarov Hmm, not really as long as there's choice in platforms to use. (There was an article about exactly this on a Dutch news site this week!)
It's like how gay marriage is okay for the state, but you can't force a specific church to perform one.
 
Is there? What competitors does SE even have?
 
Codidact?
Or one of the other spin-offs that were made late 2019 ;)
 
Never heard of it/them. :P
 
@Sarov I've seen bits and pieces, and so far, it's not looking bad!
 
Mm.
 
7:06 PM
It at least doesn't seem to have the 'scale' problems some SE sites have, and it's done some interesting stuff to try and pre-empt some other SE problems...
 
"'scale' problems"?
 
You know... More people finding your site with low quality questions/answers then there are people to curate
 
Aah.
 
Mith can probably explain codidact better, as far as I know they're pretty involved there too ;)
I've only read some bits that were shared on Twitter 😂
 
7:10 PM
Last I saw, we were hitting ~500 posts a month, although that ebbs and flows.
 
Not too bad!
 
And yes, I can probably answer most questions about the project ;)
 
Is that question and answers both?
 
Yes.
This is from August:
 
Heh, that looks pretty familiar ;)
 
7:12 PM
The Software community in particular has picked up nicely.
 
It'd be interesting to know how much of that would just be closed as a duplicate on SO... Just curious, but that's one of those where codidact may not be yet plagued by scaling problems :)
 
I don't know, actually, since most of those go right over my head :P That's one site I stay mostly in the background on.
 
it's just a random thought I had...
Not really needing an answer ;)
 
Anyway, this conversation reminded me of something I wanted to post to Codidact Meta, so... thanks. :D
 
YW! Share a link on Twitter? :P
 
7:21 PM
I will, soon... from the CD account...
 
@Tinkeringbell Every question must have an answer! Isn't how this Q+A stuff works? :P
 
@Sarov sort-of... Sometimes you do need to offer a bounty first though :P
 
7:34 PM
I have a quick question
Does anyone knows where to find source correlating employee or company performance, with how much you empower or trust your employees ?
I found a source but it's typically one my boss wouldn't read. I need to find clear simple stuff
 
@ArthurHv Don't really have sources but this is scarily similar to some of the points on the webinar I had yesterday XD
Maybe the wiki page has suitable links? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_leadership
 
@ArthurHv Be aware of Theory X vs Theory Y.
When Theory X applies, your assumption is actually false.
This is for things like factory line workers.
 
When does it apply though?
We're not factory workers afaik
 
Or certain military.
When you need to tell your employees "Go die", standard motivational techniques don't work so well. :P
 
I would still think some people would go die if they understood the overall goal.
 
7:47 PM
But yeah; saying "Trusting and empowering employees leads to better performance" is not technically always true.
It only is for Theory Y employees.
Such as knowledge workers.
 
I am completely good with a "it's on average better" bonus point if its for knowledge workers which we are.
 
So yeah; you might want to look for "Theory X vs Theory Y" articles, maybe?
 
I did
Zero offer data on actual implementations
To be very fair I started my essay about these exact theories lol
 
Aah yeah, if you're looking for actual data, you'll have to rely on surveys.
The CHAOS database, maybe?
 
@Sarov You give operational directives instead: say when, what and where, but not how ;) so 'fight the bastards in this village at break of dawn so we can get their oil reserves' without mentioning 'die' ;)
 
7:53 PM
But... how do you know the marital statuses of their parents??
 
Big data
 
Aah.
 
i can't believe some guy in 1960 wrote about my manager dilemna and still nobody has produced a sound study about who of me or my manager is wrong.
People should ground my convictions in reality ffs
 
Question - how?
 
I mean
 
8:01 PM
How would you go about conducting that study?
 
It doesn't have to be a huge sample size. Just 2-3 case studies. Give out some significant numbers over a small time frame.
 
@ArthurHv universiteitleiden.nl/en/events/2021/09/… < that's the link to the webinar from yesterday. I don't know if you can access it, but if you can maybe Google scholar on the speakers names may get you somewhere?
 
How are the case studies chosen? Do you create new businesses? Do you ask existing businesses to opt-in?
 
If you want case studies the speakers there were talking from experience mostly, for what it's worth. Military experience though
 
Do you somehow simulate businesses?
 
8:03 PM
@Sarov Existing businesses. They say or report using managing techniques. You measure results. Something in that lines
 
What incentive do you offer, and how do you pick businesses without introducing bias?
How do you verify their reported findings?
I find it very unlikely that any business would willingly report the truth when it is "We treat our employees like shit and we limp along just fine, thanks."
 
Some people don't consider X being shit yknow
Anyway I think I'll stick with my original source sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167268115001365
 
Okay but you take my meaning? Avoiding bias in this case is hard.
Which is the primary reason there isn't official data on the subject despite its maturity, I'd posit.
 
I prefer partial, biased, data or studies concluding "we couldn't be sure" than actually no data.
 
May as well just ask a couple coworkers their opinions and note it down on a poll. Would be equally significant rigour.
 
8:09 PM
Just because it's not your standard don't mean it wouldn't be authoritative to a degree. My colleague never ran a society or reported any number.
If you have 2-3 companies or let's be crazy and say 10-20 that show a small trend. Or not. Then you can make conclusions that at least for 10-20 companies it worked some way.
Would you better follow a guidebook that noone proved to be of any efficiency
Some data always better than no data IMHO
 
I mean... not really. If you're trying to convince someone, maybe. But personally, I hear "My neighbour's cousin's dog found that X, so X is true" and I just think "Yyyyyeeeeeah no."
 
Idk what truth and dogs are doing here. Honestly it's sightly upsetting you tiptoe around the scientific rigor (which don't prove truth anyway) and the argumentative validity, when you're the first one to preach Scrum all around with fervor and be equally empty handed
If you have no idea what's like to be in X situation, and I have expertise in it, you may take my word about X situation, despite it having no scientific validity
The reason for this, is because of the point I mentioned, and where I'm at
My input and experience is utter shit data, it is still better than nothing
 
I'm not really sure what you're getting at, anymore. You said that "still nobody has produced a sound study". My reply is they can't.
 
8:24 PM
Ok but what about non sound studies or even a fking dog opinion for all i care
 
At that point I can only guess, but my guess is because they don't bother when they know it wouldn't be statistically significant. There's no difference between a blog post that says "Scrum is good because I said so", one that says "Scrum is good because I tried it and it worked", and one that says "Scrum is good because these 10 companies we paid said so".
If you really want/need actual studies, you may need to zoom out a bit and look to general purpose psychology. I'm sure there's been some sort of studies somewhere correlating morale to productivity.
(In fact, I know there are - I recall a study that showed that offering people more money made their mental math skills worse.)
(And yes, I'll be the first to admit that I tout agile/Scrum based on belief, rather than scientific evidence.)
 
8:40 PM
There is a whole grey area between scientific evidence and belief you deny and I was aiming at. May it be poll results, survey results, any kind of authoritative expert opinion. You have all day everyday gaps in your knowledge you fill with things that are neither science or arbitrary beliefs. Read a newspaper and you're in it. I have countless examples. Decisions to believe or not are made on convincing arguments, the Scrum book for instance don't originate from your own decision alone.
 
Difference of terminology/perspective. In my view, there is no empty area between scientific evidence and belief, just a sliding scale/gradient. Yes, piling more anecdotal evidence on top makes belief less arbitrary.
That being said, like I mentioned, I don't personally see any difference at all between "I tried this and I like it" vs "I asked 100 people, 10 of them said they like it (90 didn't reply)".
 
I see two very different claims
They might be equally unconvincing. But they are different
 
I mean, okay. I believe they're equally unconvincing for identical reasons, though. Which for our purposes makes them equivalent, if not identical.
 
But argumentative strength is a scale too. You could have some claims more convincing than others. I will even go one step further. Different type of people are convinced by different type of arguments. Convincing with rigor of scientific process, is one type of argumentative strength.
But imagine that
 
nods Agreed - which is why I said:
 
8:50 PM
I have a video with cute kittens and a scrum book on the back
 
> I mean... not really. If you're trying to convince someone, maybe. But personally, I hear "My neighbour's cousin's dog found that X, so X is true" and I just think "Yyyyyeeeeeah no."
Personally, I find those arguments identical. Others might not.
 
I'll risk saying I'm sure you are less rigid in your conviction filter you pretend here because most of your knowledge today are probably not coming from scientific studies. And I do mean knowledge and not belief
 
?? I don't think I claimed here to only be convinced by rigour.
 
Ok
 
Just that I don't think any possible study on business procedures, specifically, could be more convincing to me than individual opinions.
 
8:56 PM
Fair enough.
 
Though I have thought on how one could go about it. I think the only possible valid (not feasible, but possible) approach would be to actually create new businesses. Make a third a control where you have no contact with them, a third testing your hypothesis, and a third testing your antihypothesis. Then let them run for a year, then measure.
 
To close the incident. You were not the one I try to convince though. There is two persons me and my boss. Personally I'd like data that I don't have to test my belief with reality. And he doesn't have his take of pie charts either. So I was frustrated. Which explain the original message on the lack of studies. That you don't find them convincing for you is a bit non-sequitur so idk
 
My underlying point (albeit poorly presented) is that there's no way I can help you. It's become more a question of knowing what would convince your boss specifically, rather than what would be 'objectively convincing'.
 
I see
Well he likes anecdotal evidence from big and modern technology actors for instance
 
I would say "That's more a question for IPS than pmse"... except "How do I convince someone to X" isn't really a great fit here either!
 
9:04 PM
haha
on the case of "partial studies" I have an example of book that tested software development cost and methodologies. There was a whole lot of case studies on small samples. But with very interesting findings sometimes
For example they tested TDD. They invalidated some benefited claims
 
Like?
 
Hmm I can't remember it's been too long time, but if i remember correctly there was no statistical difference with the number of defects. It's been so long I can't even remember if their test group was testing by hand or writing tests after.
Either that or they invalidated the idea it takes the same amount of time to develop than with no test. IIRC at least people not used to TDD were taking longer.
 
Hmm. That'd be hard to test, I'd think. My belief/intuition is that TDD makes things slower to develop at first (esp. when still learning it) but faster to maintain.
It'd be a hard sell to me that 100% test coverage is just as hard to maintain as 0%.
 
I mention it because I found it interesting back then. Especially the approach to try to go see what happens even if it's just partial. I remember for example we say as engineers more lines of code is generally a bad sign. They measured development costs with LOC in different companies and highlighted it was non linear. So for example 10 times bigger software took 20 times bigger costs. It's intuitive but it was nice to see it verified
 
Well sure. The complexity scales exponentially. For the exact same reason as communication.
More classes/people = more connections between classes/people.
 
9:15 PM
That and a few other nuggets.
 
I remember reading somewhere that 12 is the highest number of people you can have in a group before politics form.
Forms?
 
form i'd say
 
I guess forms? 'Politics' being a conceptual singular noun. Not sure.
 
whaa
12 is higher than I would intuit though. I'd think 8-9 pretty difficult to keep it uniform already
 
> a person's opinions about the management of government
Hint: Politics can be used as a singular or a plural in writing and speaking
Politics has always interested me.
The country's politics have changed.
 
9:18 PM
Screw this language I'm going to learn esperanto
 
Heh.
@ArthurHv It might just be a 'common upper limi', like the 7 +/- 2 thing for memory. Dunno.
I hope it's real, though, given I have a fictional misanthropic character who's tied to the number 13, which makes that fit perfectly!
Anyway, am off.
 
ok
C u
 

« first day (1548 days earlier)      last day (32 days later) »