The Awkward Silence

Catija

12:01 AM

... that's... so wrong.

I think the comic is better.

apaul

@Catija Aww what's so wrong?

Catija

cannibalism...

apaul

What?!?

user15026

@apaul This feels like it is stretching the ice cream thing, it's barely about ice cream in any inherent sense, you could use any sorted object, and it's kinda too pointed to be useful.

user15026

Also, the weird pressure for the vanilla one to be not that is also uncomfortable

Catija

12:09 AM

@apaul The vanilla one ate the salty caramel one...

It honestly reads to me a lot more like an anti-evangelism video.

user15026

Also, if the nuts aren't ice cream, what does that imply?

user15026

Because we go from ice cream as human stand in to....whatever

user15026

Also, it overemphasizes the idea that you have to be open to all the things and try all the things to know your truth

apaul

This week on taking things too seriously... Come on now, it's just using humor to make a social commentary.

user15026

and while okay yes, trying different ice cream flavours leads to me realizing that I like pistachio ice cream more than I like pistachios...it's not really like that with sexuality

user15026

12:11 AM

@apaul Which is fair, but I don't think it does a very good job of it.

user15026

If you're going to tackle a hot button issue like this, you gotta take some care in making sure you put out the right message.

user15026

@Catija Yeah, also this. Which is uncool.

apaul

Helps to see it in the full context of the episode. It's on Netflix if anyone's interested.

user15026

(Also, I recognize sexuality can be fluid and changing for some people! I am one of them. But I think this kinda makes it overly simplistic and kinda gives off a lot of the wrong idea)

user15026

(Especially the "try it you'll like it" thing)

apaul

12:15 AM

Ya, probably should have considered the audience here...

user15026

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Gypsy Spellweaver

2:13 AM

Anybody in attendance?

sphennings

yo

Gypsy Spellweaver

Hey. I got a review dilemma. Are you up to discussion?

sphennings

As long as it isn't about linguistics.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Nope, just IPS answers

sphennings

What's up?

Gypsy Spellweaver

2:27 AM

Question is now closed, an answer made it in under the wire. It was more a comment about the question than an answer. It's been edited, probably after inserted into queue but before I got to it. Now it is an answer.

interpersonal.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/7878

Had to look at the edit history to even see what the comments were about.

As it stands now my inclination is to accept it, "Looks Ok", even though it is a short answer.

sphennings

In the vast majority of cases judge things as they are not as they were.

However to me that lacks enough substance to be an answer.

It just says do this without providing any explanation or justification.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Q is what's the etiquette, answer is to me it says al that's needed to be said. Rational is in the explanation to give. Short of citing the rules of teh contest, which we don't have, there seems to be nothing to add.

I appreciate well reasoned answers, and like to make mine thus as well. I also appreciate saying what needs saying, and then shutting up.

sphennings

This really isn't an etiquette question, it's looking for us to justify them keeping the laptop. We also don't do etiquette questions on this site.

Gypsy Spellweaver

The Q is closed.

sphennings

I know I voted to close it. I feel that there's a subjective element to judging things on this site.

Gypsy Spellweaver

2:37 AM

There always is, but it does seem stronger here than some other sites.

I believe that it is inherent in the subject matter, and that it won't "go away"

sphennings

If someone asked how long to boil an egg on IPS and someone wrote a good answer to that question I'd still be inclined to vote to delete the answer.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Don't the answers fall with the question? All on one ship, as it were?

sphennings

@GypsySpellweaver No, you can still get upvotes and downvotes on closed questions.

Killing the question will greatly reduce traffic.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Then it'd be better to DV than delete. Rep loss for answering a question clearly out of scope.

<-- vengeful sometimes.

sphennings

Both, it's not useful, so DV, it's lacking an explanation so it's more of a comment than an answer, so vote to delete.

D.Hutchinson

2:45 AM

Hi @GypsySpellweaver :)

sphennings

Ultimately it's your choice so vote as you will and don't let people like me tell you otherwise.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Leads me to a different question. Why is etiquette not on topic on IPS? I understand that it can be very different across cultures, yet etiquette seems to me to be quite IPS-related.

Catija

@GypsySpellweaver Why do you think it's not?

> the written and unwritten - but well-established and expected - rules or conventions of behavior in a specific setting (also called etiquette).

interpersonal.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic

Gypsy Spellweaver

0

Q: Mistakes with Contest Placings and Prizes

I just recently won a laptop at a game night hosted by my university. I came in second place at the event. Afterwards, someone realized there had been a scoring mistake and I was third. Now, the actual second place wants me to trade prizes with them, as they would prefer the laptop over the Am...

Catija

@GypsySpellweaver Emphasis there on "well-established and expected"...

sphennings

2:49 AM

@Catija I think it's hard to ask a good etiquette question that isn't really asking "What should I do in this situation?"

Catija

You can't have etiquette if there's no rules.

19

Q: Does the "never wear white to a wedding" rule of etiquette only apply to weddings attended in the United States?

As far as I have ever been aware, it has always been a rule of etiquette for a female guest to NEVER wear white when attending a wedding in the United States. It has always been my understanding that the bride should be the only female dressed in white. And still our answer, forever and alw...

etiquette united-states clothing

sphennings

@Catija That's a great counterexample.

Catija

The questions really need to be "tell me about this etiquette that I'm curious about"... not "what's the appropriate response".

sphennings

@Catija And that's the important difference. I'd like to see more questions like that on the site.

Catija

@sphennings Indeed. :) I like them, myself. :)

But they're not easy to ask... and a lot of people seem to dislike "research" questions here... which is absurd to me as they're much more appropriate for the SE model than... well... what we've made our stock in trade.

Gypsy Spellweaver

2:53 AM

Short of using lawyers to draft questions, I think the laptop prize question was a good one. I read it as what's the etiquette for this situation, not tell me what to do. OP isn't wanting to be a jerk, if the etiquette is return the laptop, yet doesn't want to return it just to be "nice" to the other party.

The closing sentence, if read in that context, is less offensive to the site norms. Is it not?

Catija

@GypsySpellweaver Not really. They're asking "is it rude for me to not give them the laptop"... if they'd phrased it that way, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

They're asking permission to keep the laptop... we're really not here to judge that and I don't think we have enough information...

For example... Why does that question have the "cross culture" tag? Because they're an international student? What other culture? Is it important in the situation?

sphennings

@Catija I'd argue that it's not even about rudeness, it's about morality, they're trying to feel good about not doing the right thing.

Catija

And, again... we're not here to judge or decide that... it's out of our scope. They want someone to tell them "they're being a jerk, keep it"...

sphennings

I think often times that people conflate politeness with the correct course of action, similar to how a lot of questions are pathologically conflict averse.

Gypsy Spellweaver

In the laptop Q I think that was an important element. OP didn't want to be impolite, while not being walked on either.

sphennings

3:03 AM

@GypsySpellweaver I don't see there being any IPS in the question. I was mistakenly given a thing, the rightful recipient of the thing wants it, can I keep it?

Gypsy Spellweaver

I am bad enough at my own IPS that I know I am unfit to evaluate the IPS-ness of others' behaviors, or their questions.

In reviews all I can do is evaluate based on the site, and SE, norms, as I understand them.

sphennings

There's no skill involved. It would be different if they said "How can I approach the rightful owner about working out a deal where I get to keep it?" or "I have already purchased accessories for it how can I discuss selling them to the rightful owner?"

Gypsy Spellweaver

When it gets into areas where my apprehension is faulty, I just use the Skip button.

sphennings

@GypsySpellweaver I have opinions and tend to speak as if my opinions are the truth. While I appreciate your willingness to discuss your decision process with others ultimately your vote is your choice and you should vote the way that makes sense to you.

Gypsy Spellweaver

@sphennings, I don't even think the other is the rightful owner. The award was made. Error later discovered doesn't invalidate the award. If the organization chooses to take corrective measures, that's on them. Absent that, the OP keeps, rightfully the laptop.

sphennings

3:12 AM

@GypsySpellweaver Depends on how you're framing rightful owner, per the rules of the contest OP isn't. But they are in possession of it. It was freely given to them in good faith by the contest runners. There's probably a large amount of region specific caselaw about this but that is far outside our scope.

Gypsy Spellweaver

@sphennings When voting I am speaking with my voice. It affect the community, yes, as a member thereof. However, when doing reviews I am speaking in the name of the community. With the latter I prefer to follow the site's norms as much as possible. My agreement with the norms need not be perfect.

@sphennings Way outside scope, aye.

sphennings

So there will always be grey areas left to the discretion of the voter. What I'm trying to say is that even though I'm strongly advocating that the answer should be deleted that I recognize that there is a lot of room for different interpretations of the facts by other voters.

It's important to me that when people ask me for advice that they don't feel pressured to conform to exactly what I say.

I've only been on this site for a couple of months. I'm still working out the quirks of this site for myself. I like to think that I'm open to having my mind changed instead of blindly arguing my convictions. I know I've changed my mind multiple times in my time on this site.

Gypsy Spellweaver

What I needed, and received, was to do the review against the current condition of the post, rather than what it was.

sphennings

That's something I will fight people on.

Gypsy Spellweaver

@sphennings what is?

And why?

sphennings

3:20 AM

Posts should be judged as they are currently written.

Comments are ephemeral, posts can be edited.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Seems reasonable to me. Have you had serious contention about that on IPS?

sphennings

It's been close. I've never had to argue it here.

I have had to argue it on worldbuilding a couple of times.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Since I followed it, I guess you won't get the chance now either. ;P

sphennings

There were questions that were closed for being unclear, edited to be clear but too broad, and I was arguing that despite fixing the stated close reason they still shouldn't be opened because in their current form they still should be closed.

Gypsy Spellweaver

That was just the first time I'd reviewed a post where I was pretty sure the flag was pre-edit, and the edit seemed to invalidate the flag, and/or comments.

sphennings

3:23 AM

I don't see the close and reopen queues as opposites, I see them as separate assessments.

@GypsySpellweaver The edit just removed text. Nothing was added.

Gypsy Spellweaver

I know some sites where they reopen - the edit fixed the stated close reason - and then turn around and close for the new reason.

sphennings

@GypsySpellweaver That requires an additional 5 people to close a question that should be closed.

Gypsy Spellweaver

The "logic" is that the new close notice shows the current issue with the post, so others who edit it know what the problem is.

sphennings

When assessing questions in the reopen queue I ask myself "Would I vote to close this question?" If I answer no I vote to reopen.

@GypsySpellweaver Comments are wonderful for communicating how to fix questions. Especially on worldbuilding where they are much better about clearly explaining why questions are closed.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Some sites have a user-base where 5 close votes can happen inside 500ms. For those sites such a reversal isn't a problem.

sphennings

3:27 AM

I guess... If I would vote to close the question if I came across it in it's current state I can't in good conscious vote for it to be opened. See the problem with chameleon questions.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Then again, each site has to figure out how they will handle different situations.

sphennings

Point is I have strong opinions about that, and if someone was wanting to change my mind they'd have a much easier time if they argued pragmatics.

Gypsy Spellweaver

I'd be more interested in why they cared anyway. My vote, even in a review queue, is only one vote. If I vote to keep closed and 5 vote to reopen, it's reopened anyway. Short of being a mod, no one person can force a reopen, a reclose, or any other changes.

(CMs are just super Mods in that regard)

Catija

(unless it's a dupe closure and you have any gold tag badge users)... which doesn't apply here

Gypsy Spellweaver

Can a gold-badge dupe close be overridden by 5 regular reopen votes?

Catija

3:33 AM

Yep.

Gypsy Spellweaver

So, effectively, in appropriate cases, a gold badge just gives you 5 votes, but the rest of the rules and processes still apply.

Catija

Sure. But even a mod closure (for any reason) can be overridden... they're not going to give gold badge holders more power than a mod.

Gypsy Spellweaver

I suppose a post going open-close-open-close... would eventually get a mod involved anyway. A mod can do a lock can't they? Does that freeze everything?

Pardon the queries. Still learning pieces of SE, one by one.

Catija

There are different kinds of locks with different side effects. But, yes. If we feel that it's yoyoing too much, we can lock it.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Sort of like a "Cool it down folks", or "no fighting, kids" :)

Catija

3:39 AM

Can you see this: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/search?q=locked%3A1

Gypsy Spellweaver

aye

sphennings

I can.

Catija

I think deleted:1 is the only one that doesn't work for non-mods...

Those are all of the posts that have been locked here... you can see some of the reasons... some of the locks prevent voting, some editing... some answering...

sphennings

Yeah that only shows my own deleted posts.

Catija

Unfortunately, the Locked post FAQ is... not very useful, really.

82

Q: What is a "locked" post?

A post can be locked. What does it mean to lock a post? Who can lock a post? When should a post be locked? Return to FAQ index

support faq locked terminology

@sphennings Yep. I see everything :D

Gypsy Spellweaver

3:41 AM

And only six so far. Not bad for the community.

sphennings

@Catija That must be horrific.

Catija

If you're curious... there's over 2K deleted posts.

1600 are answers.

550 ish are questions.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Does that tally exclude spam?

sphennings

Damn. Over 1/7th of all answers are deleted.

HDE 226868

@Catija That's more than 1 deleted answer per question. . .

Yikes.

Catija

3:43 AM

@HDE226868 Well, presumably many of the deleted questions had answers?

HDE 226868

@Catija Well, fair. I meant on average, though - it's still a lot.

ArtOfCode

There are somewhere around 80-100 deleted spam posts

Catija

How helpful, @art :D

ArtOfCode

@Catija heh, I had a DB connection open anyway so I figured I may as well pull the stats... as always not 100% accurate but not too far off

IPS Comment Bot

4:14 AM

You can't dictate his relationship with her. Even the assumption that you need to "open his eyes" is probably offensive to him. Accept him for who he is and what he wants, and try to rebuild your relationship with him. Avoid trying to "protect" him from his girlfriend or contradict her. As you can see she now controls your access to him, so you may have to play her game in order to rebuild your relationship. Do it. Your relationship is more important than your pride regarding your beliefs about her, so get over it and focus on your relationship with him. — Adam Davis 1 min ago

#6800 Adam Davis (1902 rep) | Q: How to get my father back and open his eyes over his girlfriend? (score: 4) | posted 106 days ago by DarkUnicorn (127 rep) | edited 105 days ago by user17915 (105 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["you\\W(really)?(need\\Wto|should)"]

Extroverted Main Man

5:11 AM

1

Q: Greeting others as someone with clammy hands

As someone who has clammy hands, I feel very self-conscious about shaking hands with someone. I can't shake the thought of the other party being repulsed and have sometimes received comments on how clammy my hands are. I can't help but feel embarrassed. If I anticipate that I will be shaking han...

greetings

IPS Comment Bot

"because sometimes I don't respond for a few days" have you considered responding in less than a few days? — Alexander 1 min ago

#11255 Alexander (101 rep) | Q: Father wants me to give him my work number and I don't want to (score: 2) | posted 6 hours ago by jman (130 rep) | edited 1 hours ago by Monica Cellio (9864 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]

Extroverted Main Man

5:28 AM

0

Q: Hard to have productive political discussion with SO

Inspired by this question, I thought of a recent pattern of behavior that I have been falling into that I have been seeking to change. My question is different because it does not pertain to dealing with a group of like minded people. My significant other and I have similar mindsets, we like to ...

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